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EDChou
Contributor ⭐⭐⭐
March 23, 2014

Haves and Have-Nots

  • March 23, 2014
  • 166 replies
  • 139629 views

There is a wide and growing, gap between those who have in the world, and those who don't.  Not only is the gap growing but so is the un-willingness to address it in any meaningful way that gets toward actual resolution of the problems at hand and/or, especially, its root causes, which are many, by those who have.  The 2014 economic conference at Davos, Switzerland was supposedly focused on issues of the widening gap between the rich and poor and how to work toward alleviating it.   Almost no time was devoted to this.  Hmmmmm.

 

In the US are many new retirees who are stuck at  minimum Social Security benefits forever, due to having to start their payments early at 62 in order to have ANY income at all.  These decisions are not made of freedom but of necessity - decisions made under duress. 

 

With no other income, the arithmetic does not work out at all for living.  This is existence, not living!  If one is forced to do file early and receive minimum benefits, due to bad economics, the benefits need to increase each year according to what the rate is for that year, as if one is just entering the system, until the maximum is reached at 65 or 66, for those who have no other income at all!  Lest we forget - This is America!  Where are the organizations who "say" they support the well being of seniors?

 

The availability of actual assistance is near nil, with none of that offering anything more than emergency or band aid "help".  (Don't be a single male with no children!)  All the government hype about ending homelessness, helping those who have the least, is just hype, as the "Tale of the Tape" reveals the actual story - Homelessness and need have increased drastically among have-nots.  (An exhaustive and continuing, study is done of Connect-To-Care, the Dallas government's excuse for a help mechanism, which showed their listed "resources" to be the same overworked, underfunded, organizations that have always been there.)  There has been repackaging of the same "resources" lists in other websites and organizations, while the resources themselves remain unchanged or less funded, leaving those who actually need help the most, in the same or worse overall shape.  If there are little to no actual resources available, which is the case in reality, what do these organizations actually do?  Jobs for those who have!  Notice how many low income people are employed in any of these.

 

With the baby-boomer generation coming into retirement age, there is a large number of retirees just entering the social security system, who spent their working lives at relatively unskilled jobs that offered no retirement plan, no insurance, no 401s, and the like, that paid so little that saving was out of the question.  This was influenced by the full scale and unregulated "outsourcing" of jobs, and the demise of unions.  Life after 50 meant jobs and job offers, lessened or ceased altogether.  This economic forced many into accepting less than livable Social Security, made and is making, a large group of retirement age have-nots who are out of work and in need of available assistance.

 

(Of sour note is the many who are plagued by student loans whose collection arms are more than willing to accept and/or forcably take, from those who who have no other income than Social Security and/or who are below the poverty level, leaving that individual with nothing at all, below where rent can be paid, food purchased - a loose cannon.  If you are living on the edge, not making enough for basics, this particular organization will still try and take from you, oblivious to the fact they can be rendering  a person homeless!) 

 

And no, retraining doesn't get you a job or help with age discrimination.  The fact that a senior has to ask someone for a job in the first place instead of having them call you, is the real issue.  To say there is no age discrimination is denying reality in many, if not, most, cases.  Experience is relatively meaningless after a certain age.

 

The question is Not how anyone got to retirement without having, but how to remediate it starting, Now, without looking at how and/or, especially, why, that individual got to retirement age in this shape in the first place. 

 

I think that's called - Non Judgemental.  Remember that one.  Takin a real beatin since the internet!  So has honesty.

 

And especially, of question, why this subject is one that so many don't want to address, see others address, have commentary/dialogue about, and why the refusal to offer explanation to back up this "reasoning"/stance for not wanting such discussion.  If a stance is solid, it stands on its own merit, and there is no fear, no reasoning for not putting it up for scrutiny!   Of question is the unwillingness-refusal to help anyone who doesn't have, without knowing their pedigree, or more.

 

What happened to helping someone who doesn't have, without knowing, or even trying to find out, how they came not to have?  Not just band-aid motion but sufficient to help fellow humans get themselves out of the cycle of poverty itself.

166 replies

mickstuder
Contributor ⭐
March 23, 2014

@EDChou wrote:

 

 

Existing are many retirees who are stuck at  minimum Social Security benefits forever because of having to start their payments at 62 in order to have ANY income at all.  With no other income, the arithmetic does not work out at all for living.  This is existence, not living!  If one is forced to do this due to economics, the benefits need to increase each year according to what the rate is for that year entering the system, until the maximum is reached at 65 or 66.

 

 

 

With the baby-boomer generation coming into retirement age, there is a large number who spent their working lives at relatively unskilled jobs that offered no retirement plan, no 401s and the like, no insurance, paid so little that saving was out of the question.  Life after 50 meant jobs lessened or ceased altogether.  A large group of have-nots!  That economic forced many into accepting less than livable Social Security.

 

 


This post could as easily have been part of the discussion about raising the minimum wage - although I'm glad it has it's own post - I would venture a guess that many of the opponents of a hike in the minimum wage are the same people who advocated doing away with Social Security - it's all part of the same philosophy - elimination of the American Dream and consolidated the wealth in the hands of the least amount of people possible - working hard your whole life and having a comfortable retirement as a reward at the end used to be the American Dream available to all - it's been exchanged for investing in the Global Lottery - the Giant Ponzi Scheme called the Stock Market - hoping that without the inside information that a majority the already rich are privy to you might be lucky enough to pick one of the same stocks the richest of the rich did and you get to go along for the ride..........but I apologize - I degress - yes Social Security should have a mechanism for unpunishing those who in order to survive have had to apply early and I also think the COLA should be increased.......................

 


My own personal situation is an example of what you speak of - I've worked at mostly minimum wage jobs my entire life - I've worked full-time almost every week since my discharge from the Military in 1968 - my goal was to hold out until I was at least 66 years old before applying for Social Security

 

I am currently work full-time as a Flagger with seasonal weather related layoffs for aprox. 3 months during the winter - my job is directing vehicular and pedestrian traffic safely in and around construction zones - my hourly pay is 9/hour around 15k annually

 

I am 64 years old and I have been doing this work for the last 4 years - not because I choose too but because I have to. I stand on my feet from 8 - 12 hours a day - usually 40+ hours per week in al kinds of weather - lunch is eaten while standing and doing my job and there are no scheduled breaks of any kind - bathroom breaks are attempted in the wild when traffic is light but again there are typically no extra Flaggers available to relieve anyone on a scheduled basis.

 

I'm not complaining - it's just the nature of the job and I'm happy to have the work - are there Federal and State laws that prohibit these kinds of working conditons - yes of course there are but there are also millions of people out of work and minimum wage whistleblowers are a misnomer

 

I was doing ok until this year because for the last 5 years I had around 100k in a IRA but have had to supplement my income by drawing out about 20k each year just to survive. My IRA ran out at the end of last year so I had to apply for Social Security at age 64 this last February because when I am laid off each year around Xmas I file for unemployment but my weekly benefit amount is only $126 week.

 

I lost approx. $200/month by filing at age 64 vs waiting until age 66

 

Just to add some perspective - to collect $126/week in New Hampshire you file for benefits the first week of your layoff - it takes a few weeks for the paperwork to be processed and then if you are approved there is a one week - "waiting period" - so by the time you start receiving benefits it could be 3 or 4 weeks since your last paycheck from working - while you are waiting for your unemployment benefit to be processed you have to attend - in person workshops at a regional unemployment office which in New Hampshire may require driving 30 miles or more one way and remember gasonline costs $3.50/gallon and New Hampshire has no Mass Transit to speak of - my drive is approx. 30 miles round trip.

 

While collecting unemployment in New Hampshire you are required to do - unique new work searches every week and to document at least three searches every week when you file yur weekly benefit request - the longer you are on unemployment the number of documented searches required also increases as do the frequency of the in person workshops.

 

One of the questions on the weekly benefit application is - have you received any monies not previoulsy reported to this department - the first month I started receiving my $1449/month Social Security payment - I had to answer the unemployment income question yes -

 

Guess what happened next? Yup - my unemployment checks were stopped - because in the wisdom of the unemployment system in New Hampshire - if a person is receiving Social Security they must have retired and no matter what they say they are no longer seriously looking for work and even if they were the Social Security earnings limit of approx. 15.5k/year is most likely going to prevent them from working full-time which is a requirement of receiving unemplyment in the first place - heh heh

 

Now keep in mind - I only applied for Social Security because I couldn't live on my seasonal weekly unemployment payment of $126. I have worked at the same job for the last 4 years and have every intention of returning to it once the weather allows for work to resume - the Social Security earnings limit is aprox. 15.5k and I make $9/hour - a normal 40 hour work week equals 2080 hours a year - 2080 hours x $9/hour = $18,720 - but we cannot do much construction in New Hampshire when the ground is snow covered and frozen so my annual layoff is around 12 weeks each year and 12 weeks x 40 hours/week = 480 hours x $9/hour = $4320 and if you subtract that from my annualized salary of $18,720 it = $14,400 approx. $1000 below trhe Social Security income limit.

 

Bottonline - I am one of those locked into a lower Social Security rate for the rest of my life and I still continue to work and probably will have to for the rest of my life - so yeah I agree - the Socail Security system already doesn't provide for a - living wage and it's only going to get worse - many will argue well it was never intended to be a persons sole source of retirement income and my response is - maybe so - but it is for a lot of us who have worked every day of our lives and it's something most of us are just going to have to deal with - but we don't have to like it!

 

 

<p><strong>( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " ) " ) </strong>" - Anonymous</p>
EDChou
EDChouAuthor
Contributor ⭐⭐⭐
March 23, 2014

I too did that kind of work.  In Colorado the weather changes from minute to minute in the mountains where I did most of my flagging.  And yes, it is hard on the body.  I took it in stride - I was in Colorado more like a working tourist geezer :).

 

There are lots of people who have similar backgrounds as you.  Done things "right" and wind up mired in a system that doesn't stand up for you.  When a complaint is made, a story is published, the solution I received from the AARP for one, was to "write your congressman".  What a cop out.  I didn't join to "write my congressman".  Seniors today need both AARP and congressman that represent them.  Isn't it more progressive to have actual help than grocery coupons and Oprah trending?

 

On the unemployment numbers:  Note that the published unemployment rate seen in the daily news is just the number of unemployment claims processed and paid.  This does Not reflect the actual number of unemployed.  Many people are ineligible or have already exhaused benefits and are not counted.  The estimated actual unemployment figures for any area are more accurate and in many cases appalling.

 

Notice that Obama has never said anything about raising the minimum wage for ALL, Immediately.  This increase is over some period of time and for only certain workers.  There is no realistic raise like that for the average worker.  By the time the words left the president's mouth, they were paleolithic.

EDChou
EDChouAuthor
Contributor ⭐⭐⭐
April 2, 2014

Please clarify your post, explain how these sites are relative to the subject matter of the group.

 

 

nyadrn
Community Champion ⭐⭐⭐
March 23, 2014

@EDChou wrote:

 And no, retraining doesn't necessarily get you a job unless that training is in self employment.  The fact that a senior has to ask someone for a job in the first place instead of having them call, is the real issue.  To say there is no age discrimination is denying reality in many, if not, most, cases.

 

The question is Not how anyone got to retirement without having, but how to remediate it starting Now, without looking at how and/or, especially, why, that individual got here in this shape.

 

I think that's called - Non Judgemental.  Remember that one.  Takin a real beatin since the internet!

................................................................................................................................

None of your comments pertain to everyone..  there are lots of seniors still working and making as much as they ever did and who did plan for retirement and will have resources to retire with...
no one should come to retirement age without some kind of plan.. come on   what do you think they can do now?  There is social security, pension, personal savings, help from an agency, help form family.. but it is up to each one of us to figure out where we stand and what we can do  and take some kind of action..   and so you are stuck at minimum social security benefits.. that is still a livable income.. unlike what you say, because if they have been living on that kind of income all their lives, this is not a big change..  and telling people who have to worked hard all of their lives and planned for their retirement that they are the problem is crazy..  
What are you looking to have happen?
Life's a Journey, not a Destination" Aerosmith
EDChou
EDChouAuthor
Contributor ⭐⭐⭐
March 23, 2014

None of your comments pertain to everyone..  there are lots of seniors still working and making as much as they ever did and who did plan for retirement and will have resources to retire with...

Nothing in the post that says "everyone".  Just the opposite.  If you read it, its focus is clearly laid out.

 

no one should come to retirement age without some kind of plan.. come on   what do you think they can do now?  There is social security, pension, personal savings, help from an agency, help form family.. but it is up to each one of us to figure out where we stand and what we can do  and take some kind of action

Please read the post.  This is not about what "should" have been.  If there actually were enough, there would be no need for this chorus. 

 

and so you are stuck at minimum social security benefits.. that is still a livable income

Please back up your statement with arithmetic, figures showing exactly how "living" off this figure can be done.

 

unlike what you say, because if they have been living on that kind of income all their lives, this is not a big change

Just who is "they".  And why are you unwilling to help without such judgement?  This kind of rhetoric is part of the problem, not part of the solution. 

 

and telling people who have to worked hard all of their lives and planned for their retirement that they are the problem is crazy

Where do you see any of that in my posts or my comments? 

 

Why do you have such problems with people who didn't do the same as you?   Especially exhibiting such negativity, disrespect, and disdain for fellow humans? 

 

Positive feedback would be appreciated.

nyadrn
Community Champion ⭐⭐⭐
March 23, 2014

@EDChou wrote:

 

Why do you have such problems with people who didn't do the same as you?   Especially exhibiting such negativity, disrespect, and disdain for fellow humans? 

 

Positive feedback would be appreciated.

You know,  this same thing has been discussed over and over and over here..  you are not interested in what I have to say..   and since this is your issue.. perhaps you should offer some solutions that you think others will accept and that have the possibility of being initiated.

Life's a Journey, not a Destination" Aerosmith
GailL1
Community Champion ⭐⭐⭐
March 23, 2014

My heart goes out to seniors or anybody who are not somewhat prepared for whatever their future brings.  However, I will have to admit, my 1st thought is WHY and I do get frustrated with the answer; usually very much the same answer.  Preparation is everything when you know something will happen.

For most of my working life, I was self-employed and knew from the beginning that there were things which I had to provide for myself, had to be done by me, alone.  I did plan along those lines and my lifestyle through the years mirrored those priorities - health insurance, retirement savings, other savings, disability insurance, paying into the SS and Medicare system, etc.

 

Today, I guess you would consider me a "Have" but a very longed planned out "Have"-  I live within a budget - a budget that I have established based on my income from the sources which I have planned.  Not rich but comfortable, at least within my life.

 

I see a future (actually NOW) where a lot of seniors (boomers) have to be provided for in their retirement years with government and/or charity provided subsidies - food, housing, transportation, medical cost, caregiving, LTC, etc.  These things will supplement their retirement income from only SS or SSI or those with only SS and a bit of savings.

 

I believe you and I may have discussed this before - Seniors on limited income can take that amount and change their lives so that it can go further.

1.  Work longer if they can - course, then you have to keep in mind taxation on the SS benefit if early retirement was taken.

2.  Meals on wheels, SNAP, food banks, gardens, community gardens to supplement the food budget

3.  Subsidized housing -

4.  Medicaid - Extra Help - Dual Eligibility for medical needs.

 

Not the retirement idea that many envisioned, I'm sure, but choices made in all those previous years do have consequences.

IT‘S ALWAYS SOMETHING . . . . .. . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
EDChou
EDChouAuthor
Contributor ⭐⭐⭐
March 23, 2014

Thank you and glad to have you back in the mix.

 

I'm seeing so many folks who didn't make it even with what might be thought of as good preparation.  The idea of having, say, $100,000 as a "nest egg" and being secure today is not the same as 1965, or 70, or even 90.  This in itself accounts for some of the difficulties.  The working value of that amount is not the same.  Compound that with - Through Nobody's Fault - we did not re-tool ourselves for business after World War II.  Jobs, opportunity, went away while we played.  We didn't steep ourselves in economics, business, high level machine work, and especially not in people knowledge, like cultural and geohistorical studies.

 

That's why the emphasis on not asking how or why.  There are many "reasons" and/or none at all.  How many of them matter until after an upgrade?  And what can be done about water over the dam anyway?  We're dealing with individuals.

retiredtraveler
Contributor ⭐⭐⭐
March 26, 2014

Retirement planning is something I did starting in my 20's. Planning and investing was always a daily part of life: saving, learning how to invest, improving my job skills.

   You're asking what you can do now if you did not, for whatever reason, garner the savings.  You're going to jump on me, but my answer is, you're screwed.

   Everything I know about retirement planning is based on the idea of 'wealth accumulation' through the decades. If you did not have a good income leading to good SS benes, it's too late. If you don't have savings, it's too late. If you're already living marginally, meaning you're barely able to pay rent, buy food, purchase clothing, there isn't much you can do other than look for various types of 'welfare' --- freebies, subsidies.  Of course, there is the obvious: try to get some type of job. How realistic that is for many seniors is questionable.

    It seems, from your posting, you think there is some way that seniors who have not saved, have 'marginal' income, can now 'take charge' of their finances and make things better. 

    It kind of seems, from your own postings, you know this cannot  be true. I make no judgement, just a dose of reality. SS was never intended to be a 'pension plan' --- it was created so that seniors had a roof and some food.

"...Why is everyone a victim? Take personal responsibility for your life..."
EDChou
EDChouAuthor
Contributor ⭐⭐⭐
March 26, 2014

Nope I'm not going to jump on you.  I commend you. I don't think we're screwed though.  We're products, not victims, of an evolution that no One person controlled.  I thought I was screwed too once I bottomed out on the streets.  My vehicle was gone, pockets empty.  I could grab a meal at any one of many soup lines, maybe spend the worst nights on some gym floor because the shelters were too crowded otherwise.  I wasn't eligible for Social Security yet.  I didn't ask anybody for help because from the bottom up one can readily see the apathy of those who have for those who don't.   I've been asking for discussion, explanation, of that rationale.

 

The first priority was to get to some source of money short of crime.  (In reality, of course, for many, crime is a part of the equation.)  Having camping gear made possible sheltering near some job.  Finding a job turned out to be easier in a smaller town where word of mouth was thick.  So I left the city.  I asked and found.  Camping near that, finding a bathing source, were then done.  A week's work for cash, even at $10/hr, a popular under the table directly paid wage, and there was a glimmer.

From both asking and listening, a small, broken, 80s pickup was found, for less than junk price.  The priority was to get a vehicle.  As I have said, one can live in one's vehicle, but can't drive their apartment.  With a $15 set of tools and a book, the truck was running.  I had a new home, some dollars, and a way to work.  This job was continued through finish with the money and truck used to return to the megalopolis.  IF you are homeless, please take example as I have used this  multiple times to pull myself off the street itself.  Nothing works for everybody, though, OK.

 

I started this discussion in hopes of collecting ideas on how to overcome this situation.  True, it Does look like we're screwed.  I'm glad you pointed that out.  Hope is not gone.  It's just on vacation.

Contributor ⭐
March 27, 2014

Hi Mick and Ed,

 

Thank you for your thoughtful comments.

 

One thing that tends to "hit a nerve" with me in general with people is that they never think that anything bad can ever happen to anyone in life. You can "plan" all you want for your retirement, and guess what? It can be wiped out in no time by illness, accidents, or more than one job loss. Then, you have to start out all over again. That is what happened to us. 

 

 

EDChou
EDChouAuthor
Contributor ⭐⭐⭐
March 29, 2014

With the growing economy in China as well as other countries, is the demand for goods tagged Made In America that are actually made in America.  These products are not only status symbols, but, many times, better products, not cheaply made, And with higher grade materials and workmanship that are only found in certain places, like American steel.

Small shops, mini operations that supply product to bigger assemblers, manufactuers, can be profitable here.

If you have a hobby, know some skill, even have some dream that can be realized, about producing some product, there is a growing market internationally.  The challenge is finding what sells and how you can produce it.

EDChou
EDChouAuthor
Contributor ⭐⭐⭐
March 29, 2014

Got a computer?  How about printer, preferably a laser printer?

 

I've mentioned this one before.  These are two of three major tools that can be extremely useful, even profit making, in retirement.  There is a world of opportunity in home printing:  Menus, Flyers,  Obituaries (Careful here due to the nature of the job),  Programs,  Who knows what else.  A lot of action from small businesses and individuals here. 

 

One of the keys to getting any of this business is being able to produce your own flyer for your own business and getting that flyer out by hand.  I found the half page format, 5 1/2" x 8 1/2" to be the best handout.  That's half a normal page so it can be cut in two, doubling your flyer output.  The size itself is an excellent drawing card to help attract business.  The laser printer is the most economical printer, and can be cheaply obtained or scrounged, and repaired.  They are fast and give sharp, waterproof prints.

 

A third tool is OpenOffice, the open source, free, counterpart to Microsoft's Office suite.  This one of many free tools that allow one to set up pages.  There is extensive help both built in and on the web.,  Check the licensing though, depending on what you want to do, otherwise it's free to use.

EDChou
EDChouAuthor
Contributor ⭐⭐⭐
May 9, 2014

Found this article called "My Personal Walmart Nightmare"

It's one story of many seniors who work for this company and many other smaller companies who treat their workers as such.

 

    • When I woke up to see the news, I could hardly believe it: President Obama is planning a visit to the Mountain View Wal-Mart where I work . . . But the excitement quickly passed when I found out the store would be shutting down hours in advance of his visit. I wouldn’t be able to tell the president what it’s like to work at Wal-Mart and what it’s like to struggle on low wages, without the hours I need. I am living at the center of the income inequality that he speaks about so often, and I wanted to talk to him about how to change this problem.

 

That's the idea!  At NO point has Obama ever said he supports the lower economic classes, those who have the least. Tavis Smiley of PBS and Dr. Cornell West (Graduated Magna Cuum[Intentionally misspelled here] Laude from Harvard in three years and obtained his M.A. and Ph.D. in Philosophy at Princeton.) have been on a national crusade to get more attention for the have-nots from the administration. One of their tenants has been to get Obama to even mention anybody BUT the middle and upper classes - They have yet to accomplish this. 

 

Shutting the store down is not only for regular security but helps minimize and control any possibility of your getting to tell him anything like this.

    •     I wanted to tell the president I am scared. I am scared for my health. I am scared for the future for my grandkids. And I am scared and sad about the direction that companies like Wal-Mart are taking our country.

Wal-Mart, along with the other big companies put lots of money into seeing that the elected representatives represent them first and not you!  To change this the worker has to unite.  This is called solidarity.  This is why any talk of unions (solidarity) is so taboo on many, if not most, jobs, especially in Right to Work states, and why many, if not most existing unions, are weak and ineffectual.  Unions give the worker that power where the Obamas have to listen, like it or not.  Remember, they are YOUR servants, not visa versa. - They are there to do the bidding OF THE PEOPLE!

 

This is why those who represent the people need to be DRAFTED BY THE PEOPLE, FROM THE PEOPLE, they represent, and not from some list of rich supporters of big business!  (This would carry the question of abolition of the Electoral College!) The worker is not represented by most presently elected representatives, especially at the top.  To gain this representation, the system, as it is written, allows the voter options.  This is theory - Try and get it to work in reality!

 

  •     I don’t wish the struggle I’m facing onto anyone. But sadly, my situation isn’t unique. I know that I am one of many living in the Wal-Mart economy who has no financial stability. We expect to work until our deaths because we don’t have any retirement savings and are concerned about the future in front of our children and grandchildren.
  •     There are so many of us who have it so hard – trying to live paycheck to paycheck. While the president is here visiting my store, I want him to look inside at what is really happening at Wal-Mart.

 

Obama, a constitutional lawyer, and this administration are not dumb.  They know well what is happening at Wal-Mart and the work place in general.  Workers have had their power taken away.  This is by no accident but the result of aprolonged and systematic campaign to do away with unions and the power they wielded.  Ronald Reagan, who was a master union buster from his Hollywood days, started the big push.  Add greedy, parasitic, third parties (staffing agencies, "temps", and the like), to the picture, and you have low wages, bad treatment, and no voice - no redress for any actual or percieved wrongdoing.  You can be fired for almost ANY reason and NOBODY is going to come to your aid!  "Right to Work" states are worse for this.  In many places, any mention of union is "reason" for dismissal.

 

Allowed also are pre application screens that are allowed to operate with impunity.  In order to get many jobs, especially lower paying jobs, one is subjected to pre application test that asks your opinions about matters off the job, about how you think and feel.  They seen to have been carefully built to "trick" the person into certain answers (This may or may not be true but here the perception of the worker rules.  They are seen as another sham that makes getting a job harder.)  They will argue their case but the fact is, these tests keep many from jobs.

 

Without some sort of cohesion, solidarity, and honesty, there will never be workers rights.  Employers and especially the third parties have jobs in a chokehold, and to maintain that hold, the worker has to be kept powerless. 

 

Past unions were known for their corruption and helped forster some of the organized crime of their day (which has outlived the unions themselves).  That process is well known.  In this day and age it is possible to better scrutinize this.  The third parties need to be regulated also!  This has to start from the ground up.  It has no reason to come from top down, considering the rampant greed and decadence.

 

The complete article can be found at:  http://www.alternet.org/corporate-accountability-and-workplace/my-personal-walmart-nightmare-you-wont-believe-what-life

retiredtraveler
Contributor ⭐⭐⭐
May 9, 2014

"....Without some sort of cohesion, solidarity, and honesty, there will never be workers rights....".

 

    Workers have never, in the history of the world, had more rights than they do now. You're mixing 'rights' with comments on job applications and other issues. Also, never in the history of the world, have we had so many people with drug and alcohol problems, police records, graduating high school barely literate, etc. Of course applications are going to be tough and geared to trying to screen these people out.

   And yes, unions have seen their demise. As you stated, they blew it ---- corrupt, outrageous rules, outrageous salary/bene demands.  You don't control unions by third party --- that was their responsibility and they crashed and burned in so many ways.

    We mostly have an issue with the skills gap --- there are many jobs going unfilled because there is no one with enough background to go into them. Some companies are addressing this and have some type of variation on the old idea of apprentiship. More community colleges are working with local businesses.

   The world has changed. We have too much population chasing fewer jobs due to globalization, robotics, immense increases in productivity, , and immense leaps in technology.

   And don't forget, Walmart became a huge corporation because they instituted so many forward thinking ideas on marketing and logistics. If they didn't have those minds that expanded the company, the jobs they do have wouldn't be there.

   Also, many of us don't like Walmart as they sell almost everything foreign made. Some of us don't shop there. But, many people choose to shop there, and have done so since Obama was a baby, and made Walmart the large company it is today. That is not an issue with workers rights -- it is an issue on how Americans choose to shop.  

      

"...Why is everyone a victim? Take personal responsibility for your life..."
EDChou
EDChouAuthor
Contributor ⭐⭐⭐
May 9, 2014

I put a lot of different but related subjects in this post to elicit your responses::D.

 

Thank you.

 

 

It is true that workers have more rights now than ever but those rights are in many, if not most, cases, insufficient, and/or virtually nonexistent, where there are no unions, which is where most jobs are, especially low paying jobs.  Unions have been on the decline, not only by their own doing, but with systematic help.  They wielded too much power for the big companies.  There was massive corruption from base level to top management.  The history and effects of this demise has been well documented.   Weak, to no, workers rights is a natural and direct outcome of diminished union strength.  What about the question of why the government didn't actively oversee the cleanup of unions and help them flourish, like they did the big companies, when they got in trouble, instead of actively aiding their demise?  For what constituency does a representative work toward making conditions worse for workers?  This is where voting and unions are valuable.

 

Unions today can be more heavily scrutinized and controlled by its users, better serving their constituency, the worker.  One more reason they are so discouraged by big business, i.e. government.

 

Less Worker's Rights =Mo Money

 

Screening "these people" out is endemic of the problem.  Whenever a person can be assigned some nomanclature other than "human" or "individual", they can more easily be seen as different, giving "reason" to discriminate.  (An extreme of this was exhibited in the Rwandan genocide, where many of the dead were said to be "cockroaches" and could be treated as such!)  I ask the question of where a person with the ILLNESS of drug or alcohol addiction is any less human, and deserving of ostracism, as opposed to an equal application of help, AND by whose judgement.  Where does the dollar become that almighty? 

 

A police record places anyone with one in more need of job than those, who don't, as they have that extra hurdle that in reality, does need extra help.   A person can't be assumed to be a "criminal" solely because they have a "police record".

 

I want to take the one about illiteracy and not graduating from high school with enough skills.  Look back among these posts and you will see some of the examples where high schools didn't prepare a lot of people.  Look at the post by mickstuder about his school.  They took out Economics.  Huh?  In my school as a freshman, General Business was being eliminated.  As I said, this is not something anyone purposely did.  It's nobody's FAULT!  The educational system needed updating then but instead we were left with "Shakespeare".  There's nothing "wrong" and the people who came out of this system are not "these people" but US!

 

And no I don't demonize Wally World.   They save money to make money.  I shop at Wal-Mart but I stay away from their cheap stuff for the most part.  The fact that they sell a lot of foreign made products is that most of it can't be made as cheaply in the US.  The products Americans can make the most money from are high end, high dollar products, to be sold to these burgeoning, foreign, economies.  They are looking for "Made in the US" and are willing to pay top dollar for it.  They want it made here by Americans, with American materials and savvy, too, and are willing to pay even more for that.

 

  •  We mostly have an issue with the skills gap --- there are many jobs going unfilled because there is no one with enough background to go into them. Some companies are addressing this and have some type of variation on the old idea of apprentiship. More community colleges are working with local businesses.

This is major and America, we need to look at this and take full advantage of it.  Just because you're 60 doesn't mean you can't learn.  Opposite!  Y'wanna stack that knowledge.  Exercise that gray matter!  Another factor is that jobs are where they are AT.  You have to go to them.  America has always been made of that.  There's an oil boom in North Dakota right now.  Housing can't keep up.

 

And c'mon, isn't DOING fun.  Waddya think about being alive and kickin at 60+?!  This generation of retirees is more mobile, more able.

EDChou
EDChouAuthor
Contributor ⭐⭐⭐
January 6, 2015

Why is this so difficult?  Why are those who have, so unwilling to help those who don't, especially without wanting to judge?  How one wound up in need of help is irrelevant.

  • The question is Not how anyone got to retirement without having, but how to remediate it starting Now, without looking at how and/or, especially, why, that individual got here in this shape.
    I think that's called - Non Judgemental.  Remember that one.  It's taken a real beatin since the internet!

 

drawpoker
Contributor ⭐⭐
January 10, 2015

What are you driving at?    Five (5) consecutive posts from you since Dec. 15 in this thread , yet am just as puzzled as ever  -   what is the issue here?  

 

Sure,  there are a lot of elderly people who never saved anything during their working years.   Maybe they never made enough money to save much.  Maybe they were burdened with helping out family members.  Maybe they sold narcotics or otherwise followed a life of crime.   

 

Whatever the reason it is not quite as dire as you make it out.  These very low income types will get a free (Sec. 😎 apartment with a generous allotment to pay utilities,  full Medicaid coverage with no co-pays for doctor visits or prescriptions,   food stamps,  a free cell phone with 250 minutes,  free transportation to get to M.D. appointments,  grocery store,  the senior center.   Everything but their cable TV. 

 

Sure,  they may have to bunk with family or friends while on a waiting list to get one of these free apartments.   But that's usually a temporary inconvenience.    

 

Unwilling to help you say?     My taxes are helping to provide all these services to keep a roof over their heads and food in their bellies.  What more are we supposed to do?    Frankly,  when I donate to the local food pantry I am doing so for younger people with CHILDREN.   They are the ones who are really in need of extra help from the government.   

 

Be specific about what you think should be happening,   otherwise your thread will die on the vine for lack of interest.  

EDChou
EDChouAuthor
Contributor ⭐⭐⭐
January 10, 2015

!.  THE issue is that you don't see or don't want to see the issue.

2.  As stated how anybody got here is not the issue.

3.  "These very low income types" - needs explanation.  What Exactly are their "types"?

4.  FYI - Some people are able to get all these things but this is not about those who are totally eligible.  As stated, the focus is on those who have ONLY minimum Social Security, are not on Section 8, are not eligible for enough food stamps to actually make a difference, do not have much or anything else and NO HELP.

5.  That "temporary inconvenience" is measured in years, or not at all, in the case of the newly adopted lottery system for Section 8 in some areas.  This was adopted in order to do away with the years long waiting lists.  (My mother died without ever coming off the waiting list, after 14 years of being on such a list after 65!)

6.  Simply stated, you are not correct in saying "They are the ones who are really in need of extra help from the government."  Look around you.  What keeps you from seeing the seniors, who are actually the subject of this discussion, with nothing, and in need of help? 

7. The supposed lack of interest in this discussion is due to the social attitudes and stereotypes of those who have about those who don't, as exemplified by your post.

 

And No, as long as there is stereotyping, condescension, apathy toward fellow humans, this subject will not wither on the vine, but flourish.

One of the major questions is why you and others, mainly those who have, have so much of a problem with this discussion.   Out of sight, out of mind?  Like this makes the reality less real.

 

SPECIFICALLY the purpose of the column is to elicit positive feedback and positive suggestions leading to actual and real help for have-nots.  This has been up front.

 

Your commentary is appreciated and actually helps this discussion move forward.  You asked what I'm getting at with this discussion - Here it is!  Your comments.  Now how about some positive feedback that helps those who have not.

 

 

EDChou
EDChouAuthor
Contributor ⭐⭐⭐
May 22, 2015

Recently Adam Johnson and Thomas Pitkelly published articles (separately)on the subject of democracy.  They can be seen in their entirety with links to other commentary at http://www.alternet.org/no-we-dont-get-democracy-we-deserve-why-toxic-idea-needs-die.

 

In them is stated:

 

  • Any democracy coupled with unfettered capitalism will not, by definition, be a healthy one; the mechanisms of this democracy will invariably be corrupted by the forces of power and information asymmetry. At best it’s a cute-sounding tautology, at worst it perpetuates a cycle of victim-blaming that makes addressing the true problems with our political system that much more difficult.

 

 

  • inequality renders the United States a democracy in name only

 

  • When the voter is given two options that have been hand-picked by our corporate and political elites, the notion of representation is a cosmetic one.

 

  • It not only ignores the corrupting influences of money, it also takes no account for the $11 billion a year public relations industry that sets out to manipulate people by design, almost always towards the interests of the elites.

 

  • The rise of cigarettes, the demonization of unions, the Iraq War, the myth of tort abuse: all of these are products of billions in propaganda designed to manipulate the masses to sell an agenda that ultimately serves the interests of the 1%.

 

  • The fact is the American electorate, no matter how tempting it becomes to call them stupid, credulous, and lazy, are largely victims. They’re victims of sophisticated mechanisms of propaganda that have been finely tuned for generations. They’re victims of an entrenched capitalist system that has hijacked our institutions of democracy from city halls to Capitol Hill. Both candidates for president, to even stand a chance, must spend roughly $2.5 billion each.

 

  • This means, to even be considered to represent "the people,” they must have met the pre-approval of the super wealthy who comprise the vast majority of the donor base by dollar amount.


"This isn’t a government the people “deserve," any more than $7.25 an hour for a McDonald’s employee is the wage they deserve."

What's your take?

Contributor ⭐⭐
May 30, 2015

Ed.  Terrific post.  It covers all of the bases.  Our political system is bought and paid for.  Our citizens are subjected to ideological propaganda and many are gullible enough to believe it.  Our system is in serious trouble. Americans are so disenchanted that they allow the 1% to rule.  They do not vote.  They do not participate in politics.  They do not contest propaganda.  They do not even follow the logical process of voting for their, and their families, own best interest.  My favorite saying is "God must love stupid people.  He made so many of them."

EDChou
EDChouAuthor
Contributor ⭐⭐⭐
July 26, 2015
With the Electoral College in place there can be no democracy. Participate in the process - This is very important.  One is disenfranchised automatically in nonparticipation. - Do your homework, determine the record of anyone claiming to represent you and weigh that on its own merit.  Elect representives who actually represent your interests, even when in conflict with big business and the rich.

Representatives must be drafted/nominated from the people, and by the people, they represent, in order to actually represent the people.  Anything less is politics. 

Elect statesmen, not politicians.

Contributor ⭐
August 14, 2015

I have worked hard all my life. I started working in 1963 when wages were sub par for women. Wages have been lower than men's wages for a vast majority of my working life. Therefore my social security is not as much as men's.  My first job paid me $200.00 a month gross.The most I was ever paid was $8.00 an hour and that was when I was in my late 50's. I had to claim my social security when I became 62 because I became disabled and could no longer work. I am not one of the 'Baby Boomers'. I believe that lower wages for women in that era should be paid more for Social Security. I'm not complaining, just explaining my opinion.

 

Ruby

 

EDChou
EDChouAuthor
Contributor ⭐⭐⭐
September 1, 2015

@rubyprice wrote:

I have worked hard all my life. I started working in 1963 when wages were sub par for women. Wages have been lower than men's wages for a vast majority of my working life. Therefore my social security is not as much as men's.  My first job paid me $200.00 a month gross.The most I was ever paid was $8.00 an hour and that was when I was in my late 50's. I had to claim my social security when I became 62 because I became disabled and could no longer work. I am not one of the 'Baby Boomers'. I believe that lower wages for women in that era should be paid more for Social Security. I'm not complaining, just explaining my opinion.

 

Ruby

 


This is why Social Security benefits need to increase each year to maximum for those who have to claim early.

Contributor ⭐⭐⭐
February 2, 2026

Not asset based? What if someone has a million dollar IRA? Or owns 10 rental properties? Or has a big fat ROTH account? Or a spouse who makes a ton of money? Should it just be across the board for everyone who claim Social Security early? OR just those who have no other income?