AARP Online Community and Discussion Forums - Re: Restricted benefit rules/suspension of benefit...

dedlnr · ‎08-19-2021

Do both spouses need to have been born before Jan. 2, 1954 in order for either of them to file a restricted application? Also, if I don't make a formal application for suspension of benefits (I am not receiving benefits now), how does that affect the amount of my benefits when I apply at age 70? Would I receive the same amount as if I had applied? Thanks.

GailL1 · ‎08-19-2021

This Social Security page should answer your questions:

SSA.gov - Benefit Planner - Retirement Benefits - Rules for Retirement and Spouses Benefits

Note that becoming 62 before January 2, 2016 is the same as being borne before January 2, 1954.

This article from THE BALANCE also describes it pretty well - how it use to be and how it has changed. I find their articles informative and somewhat easier to understand than many SS pages.

The Balance 06/16/2021 (updated) - Restricted Applications for Social Security Benefits

"The Balance" The Balance family of brands, including The Balance, The Balance Careers, and The Balance Small Business, delivers personal / small business financial information. They update all their articles periodically just to make sure that nothing has changed since their last update.

Your question(s) are very confusing to me so I cannot answer with anymore detail.

dedlnr · ‎08-19-2021

Thanks for sending that Balance article link. It says that for me to be able to file a restricted application, I must have been born on or before Jan. 1, 1954, and I must be married, and have reached full retirement age, and I cannot have already claimed my own benefits. I meet all those requirements. To me, that article implies that my wife does NOT need to have been born before Jan. 2, 1954 for me to file a restricted application. In fact, another Balance article says that specifically at https://www.thebalance.com/how-to-increase-your-social-security-benefits-2388932 , indicating: “if one of you reached age 62 before January 2, 2016, then you may be able to use a filing strategy called a restricted application to collect spousal payments for a few years. You would then switch over to your own benefit amount when you reach 70 to get the delayed retirement credits and a higher payout.” Yet, Social Security agents have told me the only way I can use a restricted application is if my wife was born before on or before Jan. 1, 1954 (she was born in 1955). That's why I hoped this forum might have some insight on who to believe. I know the SSA has the final word, but I've read they've made mistakes before.

dedlnr · ‎08-20-2021

For some reason, there is no "reply" link to @GailL1's post, so I'm doing it this way.

Here is what I believe is the heart of the matter, and I am going to use part of what you, @GailL1, included in your post and add in my comments in brackets [ ] and in italicized CAPITAL LETTERS:

“The SPOUSE [THAT'S ME] can claim under one of two methods depending upon their DOB– in both cases they have to be at least 62 years old [I MEET THAT REQUIREMENT].

1. If the SPOUSE is born AFTER January 2, 1954 – (age 62 AFTER January 02, 2016) – they will have to use the “Deemed Filing” rule [I AGREE WITH THAT; MY WIFE IS IN THAT CATEGORY]

2. If the SPOUSE [THAT'S ME] is born BEFORE January 2, 1954 – (age 62 BEFORE January 02, 2016) [I MEET THAT REQUIREMENT] - They can file under the “Restricted Application” rule – this means that they can file ONLY for their SPOUSAL benefits [WHICH I WOULD GET BASED ON MY WIFE'S SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS, WHICH SHE WILL APPLY FOR BEFORE I WOULD FILE A RESTRICTED APPLICATION] and leave their own benefit to accumulate their own benefit’s delayed retirement credit up to age 70 and then switch to their own work benefits with the accumulated delayed retirement credits added up to age 70 [WHICH IS WHAT I PLAN TO DO]. They can switch benefits from SPOUSAL to THEIR OWN benefit anytime but they have to be OVER their FRA up to age 70 [I MEET THAT REQUIREMENT] for any delayed retirement credits to accrue.”

So, if I understand correctly, the answer to my original question (Do both spouses need to have been born before Jan. 2, 1954 in order for either of them to file a restricted application?) would be “No.”

If I am incorrect, and anyone feels like pursuing this to help me understand, please do so.

If I am CORRECT, then the problem is that two Social Security agents have told me the answer to my question is “YES” – that is, both me and my wife MUST have been born before Jan. 2, 1954 in order for either of us to file a restricted application.

That's why I posted this question in the first place and later mentioned the conflict with the SS. I was hoping someone would have a definitive answer and/or experience in dealing with this.

OK????????

P.S. I would appreciate any citations, policy numbers, guideline rules and legal references to support what you've written. Having such proof would make arguing with SS a lot easier. Thanks.

GailL1 · ‎08-20-2021

@dedlnr

We are only discussing SPOUSAL Benefits here. Spousal Benefits are 50% of the Beneficiary's benefit; with some calculation as to whether the SPOUSE is filing early or at FRA.

There is ONLY one Spouse and one Beneficiary.

It is ONLY the Spouse who's date of birth is important NOT the Beneficiary;

The Beneficiary only has to be retired and drawing their own work record benefits.

So WHO is WHO? Forget male/ female, Forget husband/wife - Forget the "them" or "they" in filing for benefits - each person files on their own -

Who is already retired on their own work record? That person is the BENEFICIARY. I assume that is you.

The SPOUSE is the other one who is now filing for benefits. It is the Spouse who's DOB is important here - NOT the Beneficiary.

SO who is the Beneficiary?

The beneficiary is the person that is retired or retiring who is drawing or will be drawing their OWN work record benefits.

So who is the Spouse - the person that is going to be filing for benefits - What is the Spouses' DOB - before or after January 02, 1954?

IF the SPOUSES' DOB is BEFORE January 02, 1954, they can file a restricted application for SPOUSAL BENEFITS and leave their own benefit until later or no later than 70 and earn the delayed retirement credit on their own benefit.

IF the SPOUSES" DOB is AFTER January 02, 1954, they cannot file a restricted application for SPOUSAL BENEFITS - they have to file as "DEEMED FILING" - meaning they are filing for all benefits to which they are eligible and will be given the larger amount - even if the larger amount is a combination of spousal and their own - the amount is always the higher amount; not both.

So if you still don't understand - just tell me

WHO IS THE BENEFICIARY?

WHO IS THE PERSON WANTING TO FILE FOR SPOUSAL BENEFITS BASED ON THE BENEFICIARY'S RECORD? AND WHAT IS THIS PERSON'S DOB BEFORE OR AFTER JANUARY 02, 1954.

By caps, I am not yelling - just accentuating. (plus my keyboard /cursor/mouse is having problems. Sorry.

GailL1 · ‎08-20-2021

Here are more Social Security.gov links for you:

SSA.gov - Benefits for Spouses - Calculations

SSA.gov - Benefit Planner - Retirement - Deemed Filing

SSA.gov - Understanding Spouse's Benefits

SSA - FAQ - What is the eligibility for Social Security spouse’s benefits and my own retirement bene...

SSA - FAQ - Can I apply only for spouse’s benefits and delay filing for my own retirement benefit in...

GailL1 · ‎08-20-2021

RE-read your The Balance link. https://www.thebalance.com/how-to-increase-your-social-security-benefits-2388932

Then I will give you some easy rules that you can follow.

The link says (copy/ paste):

Combine Benefits

If your living spouse is collecting benefits, you may also be able to claim spousal payments whether you qualify on your own work record or not. If you can get SSA money on your own, but your spousal payments are higher than your retirement benefits, getting spousal benefits would allow you to combine benefits that add up to the higher spousal amount.

Likewise, if one of you reached age 62 before January 2, 2016, then you may be able to use a filing strategy called a restricted application to collect spousal payments for a few years. You would then switch over to your own benefit amount when you reach 70 to get the delayed retirement credits and a higher payout.

I think you maybe getting confused on exactly who the specific rules apply to - so maybe this will help clear up who is THE SS BENEFICIARY and who is THE SPOUSE and what rules apply to who.

To file for SPOUSAL benefits there is one General Rule:

GENERAL RULE: The SS BENEFICIARY, on which the SPOUSAL benefit is claimed or filed against, MUST already be retired for any SPOUSAL benefits to be claimed against the SS Beneficiary’s benefit– that SS Beneficiary's benefit can be early retirement (62) under which the benefit would be reduced or at or over Full Retirement age.

If that is true (that the SS BENEFICIARY is already retired) , then the SPOUSAL benefit can be claimed against the SS Beneficiary’s benefit once the SPOUSE is at least 62 years of age.

The SPOUSE can claim under one of two methods depending upon their DOB– in both cases they have to be at least 62 years old.

If the SPOUSE is born AFTER January 2, 1954 – (age 62 AFTER January 02, 2016) – they will have to use the “Deemed Filing” rule – this means that when the SPOUSE files for retirement benefits, they are filing for ALL of their benefits to which they are eligible. They are filing for their own benefit as well as any SPOUSAL benefit to which they may be entitled. SS does a calculation to determine which of these retirement benefits are the highest or some combination of them to reach the highest benefit and the SPOUSE will receive the HIGHEST amount.
If the SPOUSE is born BEFORE January 2, 1954 – (age 62 BEFORE January 02, 2016) - They can file under the “Restricted Application” rule – this means that they can file ONLY for their SPOUSAL benefits and leave their own benefit to accumulate their own benefit’s delayed retirement credit up to age 70 and then switch to their own work benefits with the accumulated delayed retirement credits added up to age 70. They can switch benefits from SPOUSAL to THEIR OWN benefit anytime but they have to be OVER their FRA up to age 70 for any delayed retirement credits to accrue.

OK ????

dedlnr · ‎08-20-2021

Ever feel as if we're talking past each other? I believe we agree on just about everything, but our posts don't seem to get that across. Based on what you've written – and on what I believed to be the case when I posted my original question (“Do both spouses need to have been born before Jan. 2, 1954 in order for either of them to file a restricted application?”) – I can have been born before 1954 and my wife after 1954 and I can still file a restricted application. The problem, as I've said before, is that SOCIAL SECURITY DOES NOT AGREE! Two SS agents told me that both my wife and I must have been born before 1954 in order for either of us to file a restricted application.

I'm hoping that someone will be able to tell me that SS is definitely wrong (or right) and possibly give me citations to prove that to be the case.

I feel that it's important to clarify some of the issues in your post by answering your questions so we're all on the same page, as they say (and remember that some of my answers below are in italicized caps and in brackets to identify them as mine, as they are inserted into information you included in a previous post):

Q: “WHO IS THE BENEFICIARY?” A: My wife is, as I wrote previously: (“....SPOUSAL benefits [WHICH I WOULD GET BASED ON MY WIFE'S SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS, WHICH SHE WILL APPLY FOR BEFORE I WOULD FILE A RESTRICTED APPLICATION]”

Q: “WHO IS THE PERSON WANTING TO FILE FOR SPOUSAL BENEFITS BASED ON THE BENEFICIARY'S RECORD?” A: In other words, who is the spouse? -- I am. (This is what I previously posted: “2. If the SPOUSE [THAT'S ME]....”

Q: “WHAT IS THIS PERSON'S DOB, BEFORE OR AFTER JANUARY 02, 1954?” A: I was born before 1954, as I said previously: (“2. If the SPOUSE [THAT'S ME] is born BEFORE January 2, 1954 – (age 62 BEFORE January 02, 2016) [I MEET THAT REQUIREMENT] ….).”

Q: “IF the SPOUSES' DOB is BEFORE January 02, 1954, they can file a restricted application for SPOUSAL BENEFITS and leave their own benefit until later or no later than 70 and earn the delayed retirement credit on their own benefit.” A: I agree (SEE ABOVE).

Q: “IF the SPOUSES" DOB is AFTER January 02, 1954, they cannot file a restricted application for SPOUSAL BENEFITS - they have to file as "DEEMED FILING." A: I agree: ( “1. If the SPOUSE is born AFTER January 2, 1954 – (age 62 AFTER January 02, 2016) – they will have to use the “Deemed Filing” rule.” I wrote: “[I AGREE WITH THAT; MY WIFE IS IN THAT CATEGORY].”

Q: “It is the Spouse who's DOB is important here - NOT the Beneficiary.” A: I agree, but Social Security does not agree! I have written: “Social Security agents have told me the only way I can use a restricted application is if my wife was born on or before Jan. 1, 1954 (she was born in 1955).”

So, after again nailing down who is the spouse and who is the beneficiary, the next thing to nail down is who is correct – the SS or us? Any thoughts on how to come to a definitive answer will be appreciated.

Whew!

GailL1 · ‎08-21-2021

I believe the reason that SS is confused about your situation is because it is an ODD one.

Based on todays year - 2021, that means that you, being born BEFORE January 02, 1954 (or 62 BEFORE January 02, 2016) , you would have to be at least 67 years old - older than your FRA. That could be true but do you really think that your own FRA+ benefit is gonna be less than a SPOUSAL benefit based on your wife's (the Beneficiary) retirement benefit?

Again based on today's year of 2021, the beneficiary (your wife) born after January 02, 1954 (or 62 after January 02, 2016) would be either 62, 63, 64, 65, 66 or 66+months. For 62, 63, 64, 65, etc. she will be getting a reduced benefit for any period that is less than her FRA.

But whatever . . . . you have given me a challenge.

1. your wife, the beneficiary, has to file for her SS retirement benefits based on her own work record.

2. Then you, as the Spouse, would file for SPOUSAL Benefits. I am assuming that you have never filed for your own benefits ever - not disability, not SS retirement ( and perhaps suspended them ) and that you meet the marriage length requirement with the Beneficiary (your wife).

3. If all is well with #2, You would file a restricted application since you meet the born BEFORE January 02, 1954 rule (or 62 before January 02, 2016) and then you can let your own work record benefits grow by the delayed retirement credits (which they probably already are) until you reach the age of 70 and then stop the Spousal benefits and begin your own work record retirement benefits with all the delayed retirement credits.

Website references:

1. I actually computed it here but I had to guess at the data input - you can compute it with your accurate date and it should come out the same.

https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/quickcalc/spouse.html

This is what it showed when I put in my made-up dates which were BEFORE January 02, 1954 with a FRA date of 2019.

⏫ The above "Effects" show that you can get a spousal benefit

Next: https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/claiming.html

It says:

Previously some spouses received spousal benefits at full retirement age, while letting the retirement benefits based on their earnings record grow by delaying to file for benefits.

What did the law change?

If you turn 62 before January 2, 2016, and: [my comment: you qualify]

You are eligible for benefits both as a retired worker and as a spouse (or divorced spouse) in the first month you want your benefits to begin and [my comment: you meet this criteria]
You are not yet full retirement age, you must apply for both benefits (known as deemed filing). You will receive the higher of the two benefits. [my comment: you are FRA so you do not have to do a deemed filing application, rather you can do a restricted application]

There are many independent articles on this. I gave you one from the AARP - others are also available.

Here is a SSA Statement from April 2016 - From the Social Security Administration Office of Legislation and Congressional Affair

SSA: April 2016 - Bipartisan Budget Act of 2015 Closes Social Security Loophole

There were several of these "aggressive claiming strategies" that were closed - some immediately; others with a before and after date.

It says: (copy/paste) From the heading of "THE LOOPHOLES"

Spouse then Worker:

This practice allowed a worker with relatively high earnings to collect a spouse benefit for several years while they accrued DRCs on their own wage record until age 70 (raising their benefit by as much as 32 percent), when they switched from a spousal benefit to a worker benefit. This also subverted the intention of spousal benefits, intended for spouses with lower or no earnings, and the actuarial fairness of the DRC formula. This strategy is no longer available to anyone who was not already age 62 (or over) prior to January 2, 2016. Anyone who was at least 62 in 2015 can still file a “restricted claim” for spousal benefits after reaching full retirement age (currently age 66) and wait to file for his or her own retirement benefits later (while earning DRCs) –i.e., they were “grandfathered in.” Prior law had already disallowed restricted claiming for those between age 62 and full retirement age.

🔼 THE ABOVE should be your "proof" to the SSA reps - if you find an old-timer SSA rep or one that is more knowledgeable - I bet they will know and understand.

I guess, if you are getting nothing now - something ( Spousal benefit- no matter how low ) is better than nothing until you reach 70.

How long is that away - until you reach 70? What is your birth year?

SS is just confused most likely because your situation is rather out of the norm.

GailL1 · ‎08-20-2021

I am adding a link to an AARP article on this same subject FYI

AARP - Q & A - update 05/06/2021 - Can I collect spousal benefits and wait until I am 70 to collect ...

cat0w · ‎08-19-2021

@dedlnr

Have you visited the Social Security web site and created an account? The United States Social Security Administration (ssa.gov) . Be sure to look at all the FAQs.

dedlnr · ‎08-21-2021

We are on the same page. Is the spousal benefit more than my own benefit? No, but my intention is to switch from spousal to my increased benefits at age 70. Having a spousal benefit (plus my wife's Social Security, which she'll claim at FRA) will give us a bit of income in the meantime as well as reduce the amount of money we need to take from savings. I've never made a SS claim, and we meet the marriage length requirement.

I put together a spreadsheet to estimate our cumulative SS income under several scenarios such as wife FRA and my spousal; wife at 70 and me now; both of us at 70, etc etc. Those numbers tell us that the wife FRA/me now category gives us the most money of any scenario until 2035, when the best choice would have been using the restricted application. However, beginning in 2039 and thereafter, the best choice would be taking benefits when we both reach 70, which is no surprise, as I'm sure you're aware, because that's when the greatest benefit is paid, and, given time, will surpass taking benefits earlier.

In the end, we have to decide which scenario is best for us given our circumstances.

Btw, while we were posting, I called Social Security again to get a third opinion about whether both my wife and I must have been born before 1954 in order for either of us to file a restricted application. Guess what she said? “No,” only one of us needs to have been born before 1954. That makes the score three “No” (you, me, the third SS agent, as well as every other web site I researched) vs two “Yes” (the first two SS agents I spoke with). Too bad we can't go with majority rule.

I agree we are in an uncommon situation, but I have to believe there are hundreds of thousands of people who can still use a restricted application. You'd think SS would make sure its agents are up on the rules, given the great potential for so many such applications.

Also, as to the second part of my original question (“If I don't make a formal application for suspension of benefits, how does that affect the amount of my benefits when I apply at age 70?”) has a (not really) funny ending. The SS agent I spoke with said a formal application for suspension is not required and there is no affect on benefits without one. On the other hand, every web site I've consulted said just the opposite – that a formal application is required or a good idea.

Whaddyagonnado?

Tonster521 · ‎08-26-2021

@dedlnr A key factor that some folks overlook when developing a SS maximization strategy is life expectancy. Sometimes they disregard this important time factor and focus only on a monthly SS benefit. Moreover, married folks look at the restricted benefit approach for only one person and not the delayed credit benefits for both even if both are in very good health. As you calculated, your projected SS benefits for both is the greatest when both delay SS to age 70. As you indicated, that occurs in 2039 which would be your spouse's age 84 (born 1955). That makes mathematical sense based on current SS provisions. The SSA informs us that starting early, at full retirement age, or delaying are essentially the same amount of SS benefits over the average life expectancy which hovers between ages 83 and 84. This does not mean everyone lives to the average. Some pass before and others life longer. The average is the average. So, if you believe you and/or your spouse will live longer than the average, it is to your advantage to delay. If you believe the opposite, it is to your advantage to start early or at least after you stop working. This statement does not include whether you can earn more than the discount rate that SS utilizes in their formula which is approximately 3%. Based on the above, your SS benefits will be greatest if you both delay and life longer than the average life expectancy (ages 83 to 84). I did not see your birth year, but if I understand your calculation regarding SS benefits at 2035, I would guess that your birth year may be 1951 or 1952 (ages 83 to 84). That is when you start benefiting from delaying SS benefits to age 70. It takes about that long to recoup the SS benefits that you may elect not to receive after full retirement age. For the folks that are savvy investors that may earn greater than 3%, it is to their advantage to start SS benefits asap and let their money grow as long as possible especially if they are thinking they may not live to average life expectancy. Hope this helps with your calculations.

GailL1 · ‎08-21-2021

@dedlnr wrote

. . . . my intention is to switch from spousal to my increased benefits at age 70. Having a spousal benefit (plus my wife's Social Security, which she'll claim at FRA) will give us a bit of income. . .

That sounds like a good plan -

@dedlnr wrote

I put together a spreadsheet to estimate our cumulative SS income under several scenarios . . . . Those numbers tell us that the wife FRA/me now [Spousal with restricted application] category gives us the most money of any scenario.

. . . . In the end, we have to decide which scenario is best for us given our circumstances.

Yep, good plan -

Glad you did find a SS agent that understands the Spousal benefit concept and the rules of "restricted application" and that you fit into the criteria.

@dedlnr wrote

I agree we are in an uncommon situation, but I have to believe there are hundreds of thousands of people who can still use a restricted application. You'd think SS would make sure its agents are up on the rules, given the great potential for so many such applications.

You would be surprised - it use to be that most people would take early retirement at 62. As the FRA has increase and the early retirement age has stayed the same, thus increasing the amount of reduced benefits at 62, many are now rethinking their position on this. However, just like you and your wife, they still decide which SS retirement scenario is best for them given their circumstances.

There may still be a few people who are born before January 02, 1954 that have a living spouse and whom could file the restricted application. Yes, the agents should know but in their defense, the system is complicated, as well as Medicare - it confuses people - like What benefit - Beneficiary, Spousal, Survivors, Family, Divorced Spouse - with all the vast rules and regs. And just like this subject of "restricted application" , they make it extremely hard to research on ones on.

Can't tell you how many times that "deemed filing" has been described here on this board.

But you are right, they should know their job - inside out. Many times they don't and just know the basics or the most common situations.

@dedlnr wrote

Also, as to the second part of my original question (“If I don't make a formal application for suspension of benefits, how does that affect the amount of my benefits when I apply at age 70?”) has a (not really) funny ending. The SS agent I spoke with said a formal application for suspension is not required and there is no affect on benefits without one. On the other hand, every web site I've consulted said just the opposite – that a formal application is required or a good idea.

As a spouse filing for Spousal benefits under the "restrictive application" rule - you should file in the "restrictive application" format. All that does is say that you can file for Spousal benefits ONLY and do NOT have to file as "deemed filing" under which rule a spouse has to file for all the benefits to which they may be entitled and they get the larger.

You DO NOT have to suspend your own benefits - you aren't filing anything to affect your own benefits under the "restricted application" - your benefits will just sit there and grow with the DRC until you reach age 70 and switch from Spousal to your own benefit. You do not have to suspend your own work record benefits - under the restricted application - you do not touch your own benefits.

Do not mention the word - SUSPEND - that was another loophole (File and Suspend) that got thrown out COMPLETELY as of April 30, 2016 - see the same link that I referenced before:

SSA Statement from April 2016 - From the Social Security Administration Office of Legislation and Congressional Affair

SSA: April 2016 - Bipartisan Budget Act of 2015 Closes Social Security Loophole

from the link:

 Claim then Suspend: This practice allowed a worker to file for benefits but then suspend payments, while still allowing a benefit to be paid to the spouse, even though the worker had not retired and was not collecting benefits. This undermined the purpose of spousal benefits, which is to supplement benefits paid to the worker when there are dependent family members. A worker who chooses to delay receipt of retirement benefits beyond the full retirement age, currently 66, accumulates “delayed retirement credits” (DRCs) which lead to a higher benefit when they do retire. The formula for calculating DRCs for workers who delay retirement is designed to be “actuarially fair” – meaning the worker would be expected to receive the same amount of benefits over their lifetime as they would if they did not delay retirement – and assumes that no spousal benefits are being provided when the worker is not receiving benefits. The loophole subverted that actuarial fairness, giving those who use this claiming strategy more in benefits than was intended. The provision to close this loophole takes effect April 30, 2016. After that, if a worker suspends his or her retirement benefit, then spousal benefits based on that person’s earnings will also be suspended. Furthermore, a worker who suspends after April 30 will no longer be able to retroactively “un-suspend” benefits at a later point and receive a lump sum for the past-due period.