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Super Contributor

Haves and Have-Nots

Cal Coast 76-080.jpgThere is a wide and growing, gap between those who have in the world, and those who don't.  Not only is the gap growing but so is the un-willingness to address it in any meaningful way that gets toward actual resolution of the problems at hand and/or, especially, its root causes, which are many, by those who have.  The 2014 economic conference at Davos, Switzerland was supposedly focused on issues of the widening gap between the rich and poor and how to work toward alleviating it.   Almost no time was devoted to this.  Hmmmmm.

 

In the US are many new retirees who are stuck at  minimum Social Security benefits forever, due to having to start their payments early at 62 in order to have ANY income at all.  These decisions are not made of freedom but of necessity - decisions made under duress. 

 

With no other income, the arithmetic does not work out at all for living.  This is existence, not living!  If one is forced to do file early and receive minimum benefits, due to bad economics, the benefits need to increase each year according to what the rate is for that year, as if one is just entering the system, until the maximum is reached at 65 or 66, for those who have no other income at all!  Lest we forget - This is America!  Where are the organizations who "say" they support the well being of seniors?

 

The availability of actual assistance is near nil, with none of that offering anything more than emergency or band aid "help".  (Don't be a single male with no children!)  All the government hype about ending homelessness, helping those who have the least, is just hype, as the "Tale of the Tape" reveals the actual story - Homelessness and need have increased drastically among have-nots.  (An exhaustive and continuing, study is done of Connect-To-Care, the Dallas government's excuse for a help mechanism, which showed their listed "resources" to be the same overworked, underfunded, organizations that have always been there.)  There has been repackaging of the same "resources" lists in other websites and organizations, while the resources themselves remain unchanged or less funded, leaving those who actually need help the most, in the same or worse overall shape.  If there are little to no actual resources available, which is the case in reality, what do these organizations actually do?  Jobs for those who have!  Notice how many low income people are employed in any of these.

 

With the baby-boomer generation coming into retirement age, there is a large number of retirees just entering the social security system, who spent their working lives at relatively unskilled jobs that offered no retirement plan, no insurance, no 401s, and the like, that paid so little that saving was out of the question.  This was influenced by the full scale and unregulated "outsourcing" of jobs, and the demise of unions.  Life after 50 meant jobs and job offers, lessened or ceased altogether.  This economic forced many into accepting less than livable Social Security, made and is making, a large group of retirement age have-nots who are out of work and in need of available assistance.

 

(Of sour note is the many who are plagued by student loans whose collection arms are more than willing to accept and/or forcably take, from those who who have no other income than Social Security and/or who are below the poverty level, leaving that individual with nothing at all, below where rent can be paid, food purchased - a loose cannon.  If you are living on the edge, not making enough for basics, this particular organization will still try and take from you, oblivious to the fact they can be rendering  a person homeless!) 

 

And no, retraining doesn't get you a job or help with age discrimination.  The fact that a senior has to ask someone for a job in the first place instead of having them call you, is the real issue.  To say there is no age discrimination is denying reality in many, if not, most, cases.  Experience is relatively meaningless after a certain age.

 

The question is Not how anyone got to retirement without having, but how to remediate it starting, Now, without looking at how and/or, especially, why, that individual got to retirement age in this shape in the first place. 

 

I think that's called - Non Judgemental.  Remember that one.  Takin a real beatin since the internet!  So has honesty.

 

And especially, of question, why this subject is one that so many don't want to address, see others address, have commentary/dialogue about, and why the refusal to offer explanation to back up this "reasoning"/stance for not wanting such discussion.  If a stance is solid, it stands on its own merit, and there is no fear, no reasoning for not putting it up for scrutiny!   Of question is the unwillingness-refusal to help anyone who doesn't have, without knowing their pedigree, or more.

 

What happened to helping someone who doesn't have, without knowing, or even trying to find out, how they came not to have?  Not just band-aid motion but sufficient to help fellow humans get themselves out of the cycle of poverty itself.

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Super Contributor

I wish that I had a magic wand but instead I just write the elected officials for my state in hopes that if they get enough letters that they will care about our concerns. It never hurts to try.

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Super Contributor

Retiredtraveler:  " It seems, from your posting" and " It kind of seems" are OK but not what the  posts say.

 

"it was created so that seniors had a roof and some food" -  Please read the stated purpose as per the Social Security administration.

 

"there is some way that seniors who have not saved, have 'marginal' income, can now 'take charge' of their finances and make things better" - It's not about what I THINK but about the reality that MANY (Too many!) seniors are not economically soluble in America today and neither Social Security nor society addresses that in any meaningful way.

 

What are the choices?  Since we are in a system with a government that does not effectively help those who don't have, in a society where those who have will not help those who don't, there are far fewer choices.

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Super Contributor

Nope I'm not going to jump on you.  I commend you. I don't think we're screwed though.  We're products, not victims, of an evolution that no One person controlled.  I thought I was screwed too once I bottomed out on the streets.  My vehicle was gone, pockets empty.  I could grab a meal at any one of many soup lines, maybe spend the worst nights on some gym floor because the shelters were too crowded otherwise.  I wasn't eligible for Social Security yet.  I didn't ask anybody for help because from the bottom up one can readily see the apathy of those who have for those who don't.   I've been asking for discussion, explanation, of that rationale.

 

GCNP-End 7-30-96-5032.jpgThe first priority was to get to some source of money short of crime.  (In reality, of course, for many, crime is a part of the equation.)  Having camping gear made possible sheltering near some job.  Finding a job turned out to be easier in a smaller town where word of mouth was thick.  So I left the city.  I asked and found.  Camping near that, finding a bathing source, were then done.  A week's work for cash, even at $10/hr, a popular under the table directly paid wage, and there was a glimmer.

From both asking and listening, a small, broken, 80s pickup was found, for less than junk price.  The priority was to get a vehicle.  As I have said, one can live in one's vehicle, but can't drive their apartment.  With a $15 set of tools and a book, the truck was running.  I had a new home, some dollars, and a way to work.  This job was continued through finish with the money and truck used to return to the megalopolis.  IF you are homeless, please take example as I have used this  multiple times to pull myself off the street itself.  Nothing works for everybody, though, OK.

 

I started this discussion in hopes of collecting ideas on how to overcome this situation.  True, it Does look like we're screwed.  I'm glad you pointed that out.  Hope is not gone.  It's just on vacation.

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Super Contributor

Some try to pull themselves from the depths and some don't. Congratulations for finding your way.

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Trusted Contributor

Hi Mick and Ed,

 

Thank you for your thoughtful comments.

 

One thing that tends to "hit a nerve" with me in general with people is that they never think that anything bad can ever happen to anyone in life. You can "plan" all you want for your retirement, and guess what? It can be wiped out in no time by illness, accidents, or more than one job loss. Then, you have to start out all over again. That is what happened to us. 

 

 

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Super Contributor

OlGray;

 

There are many people who planned as you and had things happen that wiped them out economically and in many other ways, effectively taking them out of society.  There are many happenings that no planning, no foresight, could have fixed and/or prevented.  Nobody's "Fault".  There is nothing "wrong".  The question/issue is where's the help once it does?!

 

Devil's Tower 2000-151.jpgThe question of "Where is and was the system?" keeps coming up.  It is cited that many  foreign countries where one pays little to nothing for health care, where the same happening would not have left them financially insoluble, and ask why, in such a mega economy as in the US, the same type of system, or better, is not in place, Plus, why and especially, from whom, there is so much resistance to having any system anywhere near similar.

 

The same is asked of the AARP. 

 

Of course this led to the question of why there are so many disenfranchised people whose numbers are increasing - instead of decreasing - daily and why there is no push to help those who don't have, as opposed to resistance to even having dialogue about doing so.

 

The Increasing Socio-Economic Gap Between Rich And Poor
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Super Contributor

I really believe that education is at the heart of the issue for many. We need to teach young people to save a little bit from every paycheck and invest it. We need to teach them about checking, savings, compound interest, credit card debt, investing, the need to plan for their future because living on Social Security alone isn't easy. The story of Ronald Reed is inspiring. He was a janitor most of his life, little formal education yet invested a little every payday. When he died he left millions to charity. Investing for retirement can be done even by those who make very little if they are taught.

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Honored Social Butterfly


"...The question of "Where is and was the system?" keeps coming up.  It is cited that many  foreign countries where one pays little to nothing for health care, where the same happening would not have left them financially insoluble, and ask why, in such a mega economy as in the US, the same type of system, or better, is not in place, Plus, why and especially, from whom, there is so much resistance to having any system anywhere near similar. The same is asked of the AARP.....".
   Oh. The answer is very simple. It is angrily discussed all the time on the political threads. Socialism. You want a system that takes care of everyone, gives free or extremely small cost healthcare, eliminate abject poverty, and everyone has a roof over their head and food. Then you have to tax at a 50% (or so) rate and have cradle-to-grave socialism. I have no problem with a system like that --- many, if not most, do.
   Plus, many believe other countries have problems with their health systems. Long waits for various medical procedures and such. 

"...Why is everyone a victim? Take personal responsibility for your life..."
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Conversationalist


@retiredtraveler wrote:

"...   Plus, many believe other countries have problems with their health systems. Long waits for various medical procedures and such. "

There are SOMETIMES waits for specialized or expensive procedures, yes. But not always. And there is also the offset that almost all countries with socialized medicine have better mortality and cheaper preventive care than the US. The US ranks very poorly in return for each dollar spent.

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Super Contributor

Universal healthcare in a good majority of countries is not simply free care for everyone. Even though they claim to have universal care for all, most also have a parallel private system which provides better care for those who can afford it. The "basic" universal care is often provided by a tax that everyone must pay to the government.; in some countries it is12.5% of one's income; I wouldn't call that free. Even those who use the universal system there are often only a predetermined number of services covered and co-pays that they must pay so care isn't free or all-inclusive as some believe. Our system isn't perfect, but I am not convinced that universal healthcare is the best answer either. I will give other countries kudos for keeping the cost of ALL medication affordable which the US can't seem to accomplish. In 2023 8.8 to 9.2% of the US total health expenditures were for retail prescriptions. Something is wrong with that in my opinion. The Netherlands does some good laws in my opinion; they charge everyone the same price for insurance ( young, old, healthy or sick). Insurers are also not allowed to refuse to pay for care that a doctor has deemed necessary. That is quite different from what is allowed to occur in the U.S. with some insurance plans. Unfortunately, things like this are becoming more common, not less.

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Super Contributor

retiredtraveler
 
I was surprised to find:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_rates.
 
The difference is how the taxes are applied.
 
The Buffet Rule https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/Buffett_Rule_Report_Final.pdf
 
In these countries there are few waits or long lines.
 
Why is it that many, if not most, do have a problem with having more socialism, especially those who are seen as not paying their share - See Buffett Rule?  And what about the resistance to having dialogue about the subject?

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Super Contributor

If you look at the history of socialism you will discover why it is not good. There are fewer personal freedoms, lower living standards, famine, forced labor camps, corruption, tyranny and even mass suffering. One only needs to look back at history... Joseph Stalin in Russia, the rule of Mao in China, the Kim dynasty in North Korea, the rule of Castro in Cuba, etc. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. That is my dialogue on the subject of socialism.

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Social Butterfly

We live in a community where people go to Whole Foods to spend almost $100 weekly on holistic dog food, while people two blocks down feed their human family for a month on that...barely. What is wrong with this picture?

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Super Contributor

What's wrong with that picture?

The dog food buyer thinks nothing IS wrong!

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Social Butterfly

Interesting what I read the other day about the mindset of some "haves". That by going green and so on and so forth that they feel an offside of entitlement. They'll bring their own bags and shop earth friendly, but still run over winos on the way home from the store.

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Super Contributor

Please share this article.
Thank you.
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Social Butterfly

Just day dreaming...in a perfect world a store like Whole Foods, or even including brand specific like Coach...they would have an additional tax for a total order over say $100-$200 that would be earmarked for an appropriate charity.

 

So you could load up your cart with your grain free, gluten free, holistic dog treats and that hand crafted hummus for twenty five bucks a pound oh and don't forget the organic pomegranate and locally sourced oatmeal cookies. But know you are also automatically kicking in $20 additionally towards hungry humans or needy companion animals. And you know some people would be fine with that. Unfortunately the most well to do would go ballistic.

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Periodic Contributor

Hopefully, these persons are paying it forward by also donating to the local food bank or the ASPCA, in a very worthwhile manner.

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Super Contributor

MaddieB;

 

"Hopefully, these persons are paying it forward by also donating to the local food bank or the ASPCA, in a very worthwhile manner."

 

Noble hope but "It ain't happenin" and does that exempt them from directly helping those who don't have?

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Super Contributor

"First, millions give to shelters, food banks, medical clinics, the ASPCA, childrens homes, crisis centers,etc. so it IS "happenin'. When you speak of not "directly helping" what exactly does that mean to you? What is it that you think that should include?

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Super Contributor

Don't forget HUMANS who never had good jobs, were never able to accumulate anything, who did nothing "wrong", and had nothing to plan retirement with?

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Super Contributor

Reality is harsh, especially when benevolence is on crutches, being ushered out the door by our ol' buddy, Greed.

 

Man has yet to invent any system that can withstand catastrophic events.  When Social Security first came into being, there was no way to forsee the present day.  Health care is debated heavily today.  We're straddled with having to carve out a new way.

 

The choices are self reliance, self reliance, and self reliance.  That self reliance can also be group efforts.  Families working together.  Friends working together.  Folks helping other - (Huh!).  (Shhhhh.  Some of that requires trust.)

 

THE biggest challenge today for seniors who need to make money is to figure out  what We ourselves, Can do since  "Jobs" are not happening.   Options are look and see what we have, look and see what we have, and look and see what we have.  Now we have choices.  Smiley Wink Lets select option 1.

 

We've all done a ton of things, had a crapload of experiences.  With some thought, a little imagination (dreaming), some of it might produce an idea that has potential to make profit.  As previously mentioned, even the introduction to the kind of thinking that makes that easier, was going away when we were in early high school.  So we are where we have to learn How to make money as well as work for it at retirement age - a lot harder than when we were young - Or is it?  I try to make it sound easy when it really is one of the most difficult questions.

 

Once that money is made - jumping ahead to success not gained - how to manage and expand it to do our bidding - another sport that taken off many carriculum before many of our high school times - becomes the issue.   A lot of the information needed though, to learn about starting and doing business, can be found on the web for free.  The Small Business Administration is  an asset here for information.  They have complete models for a lot of businesses if you go that deep.

 

Lets look at something more grass rootsy:

 

One of the popular money-makers in this part of the world is barbeque.  Some folks have mobile rigs and sell in parking lots and the like.  Some of the rigs are rudimentary, 55 gallon drum cut in two, bolted to a set of wheels, is a popular low end starter.  Check your local regulations, though when it comes to selling any kind of food.  You may already make something that can be a seller.  Another of popular home made item sold is the tamale.

 

The beauty of selling a food item is that usually the recipe can be found at home with many being family secrets of superior taste.  Many a recipe has been tested, tweaked, and proven for generations.  One can find home recipes sold at the corner stores, profitable for both store and cook.   There are clubs, bars, and pubs, who buy certain products made locally. 

 

Simply put - How much does it cost to make it and for how much can you sell it.   (Don't forget to figure time.)  Then the question is Will it sell.

 

Think of the fun you have in the test stages.  You can't lose with food, whether it sells or not.Smiley Very Happy

 

 

 

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Super Contributor

I know a senior who is on disability who babysits an infant for $300/ week.  An extra $1,200 per month + disability meets all of her needs. Sometimes thinking outside the box helps. 

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Honored Social Butterfly

@RN362636 

Thatโ€™s great if she can do it - SSDI does give a certain amount of earned income to add to their earned disability program.

 

She has to be more careful on SSI (Supplemental Security Income) since it is welfare based and has very strict limits on what amount one can have before being further scrutinized on their income.

 

Does the senior you are referring to have payroll taxes taken out of these babysitting earnings?  They should - and it may be a benefit to them if they were a low earner earlier in their life because the amount this senior is getting now from this job could replace an earlier earnings year down the road and her benefit would increase.  

 

 

ITโ€˜S ALWAYS SOMETHING . . . . .. . . .
Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Super Contributor

I don't ask questions that are none of my business.

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Recognized Social Butterfly

That's amazing! I "retired" the first time to be babysitter to 3 yo grandson; wow, just wow; as mom of only girls I had NO idea how energetic boys might be.

 

Needless to write, total disaster, so back to preschool for my darling g-son and back to work for me...

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Super Contributor

That is why she took an infant; they don't run around. She would be unable to chase a child. Instead, she gets to cuddle a very cute baby.

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Honored Social Butterfly

My heart goes out to seniors or anybody who are not somewhat prepared for whatever their future brings.  However, I will have to admit, my 1st thought is WHY and I do get frustrated with the answer; usually very much the same answer.  Preparation is everything when you know something will happen.

For most of my working life, I was self-employed and knew from the beginning that there were things which I had to provide for myself, had to be done by me, alone.  I did plan along those lines and my lifestyle through the years mirrored those priorities - health insurance, retirement savings, other savings, disability insurance, paying into the SS and Medicare system, etc.

 

Today, I guess you would consider me a "Have" but a very longed planned out "Have"-  I live within a budget - a budget that I have established based on my income from the sources which I have planned.  Not rich but comfortable, at least within my life.

 

I see a future (actually NOW) where a lot of seniors (boomers) have to be provided for in their retirement years with government and/or charity provided subsidies - food, housing, transportation, medical cost, caregiving, LTC, etc.  These things will supplement their retirement income from only SS or SSI or those with only SS and a bit of savings.

 

I believe you and I may have discussed this before - Seniors on limited income can take that amount and change their lives so that it can go further.

1.  Work longer if they can - course, then you have to keep in mind taxation on the SS benefit if early retirement was taken.

2.  Meals on wheels, SNAP, food banks, gardens, community gardens to supplement the food budget

3.  Subsidized housing -

4.  Medicaid - Extra Help - Dual Eligibility for medical needs.

 

Not the retirement idea that many envisioned, I'm sure, but choices made in all those previous years do have consequences.

ITโ€˜S ALWAYS SOMETHING . . . . .. . . .
Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Super Contributor

I get it that many need help and there are a lot of resources out there. What is disturbing is that some seem ungrateful and expect more like a friends sister who is 70 years old. She worked a total of 5 years in her entire life, always lived with a man who she wasn't married to so gets a total of $204 per month in Social Security. Her housing is paid, her medical is paid and she gets food stamps. Her sister has given her a nice car and even covers the tags, tax, insurance and gas for her. The issue is when she complains that she shouldn't have to live in a little one bedroom apartment and that her sister should buy her a house! What?? She also complained that the car was kind of small and not very comfortable. Really? She never thanks anyone when they take her out for dinner, a movie or event. Ungratefulness doesn't make people want to help. She forgets that she could be under a bridge.

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Recognized Social Butterfly

Please remember many of us were victims (yes, victims) of companies who we worked for and thought we'd invested in before the government stepped in to protect us from owners who stole what we thought was for our retirement.

 

Personally I have contributed to Social Security since age 13 (1967) when the gov fined Dad for our "working" at his small business. No wages, just learning and having time with our parents in their business (name ended with vowel so...)

 

So, while you're probably right about a lot of seniors needing help, it's not because we didn't contribute...

 

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