Tell Congress to Oppose Any Tax Bill That Would Increase Taxes for Seniors! Take Action Now

Reply
Trusted Social Butterfly
Posts: 7,098
Registered: ‎02-14-2008

Re: Haves and Have-Nots

[ Edited ]
Message 61 of 100 (4,324 Views)

"...The question of "Where is and was the system?" keeps coming up.  It is cited that many  foreign countries where one pays little to nothing for health care, where the same happening would not have left them financially insoluble, and ask why, in such a mega economy as in the US, the same type of system, or better, is not in place, Plus, why and especially, from whom, there is so much resistance to having any system anywhere near similar. The same is asked of the AARP.....".
   Oh. The answer is very simple. It is angrily discussed all the time on the political threads. Socialism. You want a system that takes care of everyone, gives free or extremely small cost healthcare, eliminate abject poverty, and everyone has a roof over their head and food. Then you have to tax at a 50% (or so) rate and have cradle-to-grave socialism. I have no problem with a system like that --- many, if not most, do.
   Plus, many believe other countries have problems with their health systems. Long waits for various medical procedures and such. 

Just think. The world was built by the lowest bidder.
Frequent Social Butterfly
Posts: 108
Registered: ‎06-03-2011

Re: Haves and Have-Nots

[ Edited ]
Message 62 of 100 (4,477 Views)

OlGray;

 

There are many people who planned as you and had things happen that wiped them out economically and in many other ways, effectively taking them out of society.  There are many happenings that no planning, no foresight, could have fixed and/or prevented.  Nobody's "Fault".  There is nothing "wrong".  The question/issue is where's the help once it does?!

 

Devil's Tower 2000-151.jpgThe question of "Where is and was the system?" keeps coming up.  It is cited that many  foreign countries where one pays little to nothing for health care, where the same happening would not have left them financially insoluble, and ask why, in such a mega economy as in the US, the same type of system, or better, is not in place, Plus, why and especially, from whom, there is so much resistance to having any system anywhere near similar.

 

The same is asked of the AARP. 

 

Of course this led to the question of why there are so many disenfranchised people whose numbers are increasing - instead of decreasing - daily and why there is no push to help those who don't have, as opposed to resistance to even having dialogue about doing so.

 

The Increasing Socio-Economic Gap Between Rich And Poor
Frequent Social Butterfly
Posts: 108
Registered: ‎06-03-2011

Re: Haves and Have-Nots

[ Edited ]
Message 63 of 100 (4,642 Views)

In a post last March in this cooler was reported a plan to help a friend who didn't have, and was about to fall out of the system due to not having enough to maintain, even though he has a job.  His family had experienced some difficult times, as most normal humans do, so friends pitched in support, both financial and material, such as extra food and petrol.

 

A group of friends who also individually had little, threw in what we had.  This gathering of resources helped this family to get back on track and the mom also find work.  Thanks to their own work and perseverence they are in better shape than before! 

 

Recently they wanted to begin repayment but nobody allowed them to do that, saying instead to Pass IT Forward, and/or maybe, throw in with us when someone else needs help.

 

It is interesting to note that among the help original group was one person who had always bragged about the things he had and the money he made, but refused to help, citing "reasons" like "tough love" and "I made mine - Why should I help anybody who didn't?!". 

 

He recently asked why the group no longer calls, won't answer his calls, or why nobody visits.

Frequent Social Butterfly
Posts: 108
Registered: ‎06-03-2011

Re: Haves and Have-Nots

[ Edited ]
Message 64 of 100 (4,797 Views)

!.  THE issue is that you don't see or don't want to see the issue.

2.  As stated how anybody got here is not the issue.

3.  "These very low income types" - needs explanation.  What Exactly are their "types"?

4.  FYI - Some people are able to get all these things but this is not about those who are totally eligible.  As stated, the focus is on those who have ONLY minimum Social Security, are not on Section 8, are not eligible for enough food stamps to actually make a difference, do not have much or anything else and NO HELP.

5.  That "temporary inconvenience" is measured in years, or not at all, in the case of the newly adopted lottery system for Section 8 in some areas.  This was adopted in order to do away with the years long waiting lists.  (My mother died without ever coming off the waiting list, after 14 years of being on such a list after 65!)

6.  Simply stated, you are not correct in saying "They are the ones who are really in need of extra help from the government."  Look around you.  What keeps you from seeing the seniors, who are actually the subject of this discussion, with nothing, and in need of help? 

7. The supposed lack of interest in this discussion is due to the social attitudes and stereotypes of those who have about those who don't, as exemplified by your post.

 

And No, as long as there is stereotyping, condescension, apathy toward fellow humans, this subject will not wither on the vine, but flourish.

One of the major questions is why you and others, mainly those who have, have so much of a problem with this discussion.   Out of sight, out of mind?  Like this makes the reality less real.

 

SPECIFICALLY the purpose of the column is to elicit positive feedback and positive suggestions leading to actual and real help for have-nots.  This has been up front.

 

Your commentary is appreciated and actually helps this discussion move forward.  You asked what I'm getting at with this discussion - Here it is!  Your comments.  Now how about some positive feedback that helps those who have not.

 

 

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 1,700
Registered: ‎06-25-2013

Re: Haves and Have-Nots

Message 65 of 100 (4,806 Views)

What are you driving at?    Five (5) consecutive posts from you since Dec. 15 in this thread , yet am just as puzzled as ever  -   what is the issue here?  

 

Sure,  there are a lot of elderly people who never saved anything during their working years.   Maybe they never made enough money to save much.  Maybe they were burdened with helping out family members.  Maybe they sold narcotics or otherwise followed a life of crime.   

 

Whatever the reason it is not quite as dire as you make it out.  These very low income types will get a free (Sec. 8) apartment with a generous allotment to pay utilities,  full Medicaid coverage with no co-pays for doctor visits or prescriptions,   food stamps,  a free cell phone with 250 minutes,  free transportation to get to M.D. appointments,  grocery store,  the senior center.   Everything but their cable TV. 

 

Sure,  they may have to bunk with family or friends while on a waiting list to get one of these free apartments.   But that's usually a temporary inconvenience.    

 

Unwilling to help you say?     My taxes are helping to provide all these services to keep a roof over their heads and food in their bellies.  What more are we supposed to do?    Frankly,  when I donate to the local food pantry I am doing so for younger people with CHILDREN.   They are the ones who are really in need of extra help from the government.   

 

Be specific about what you think should be happening,   otherwise your thread will die on the vine for lack of interest.  

Frequent Social Butterfly
Posts: 108
Registered: ‎06-03-2011

Re: Haves and Have-Nots

[ Edited ]
Message 66 of 100 (4,839 Views)

Why is this so difficult?  Why are those who have, so unwilling to help those who don't, especially without wanting to judge?  How one wound up in need of help is irrelevant.

  • The question is Not how anyone got to retirement without having, but how to remediate it starting Now, without looking at how and/or, especially, why, that individual got here in this shape.
    I think that's called - Non Judgemental.  Remember that one.  It's taken a real beatin since the internet!

 

Highlighted
Frequent Social Butterfly
Posts: 108
Registered: ‎06-03-2011

Re: Haves and Have-Nots

Message 67 of 100 (4,831 Views)

there are lots of seniors still working and making as much as they ever did and who did plan for retirement and will have resources to retire with

There are many more who didn't.  This is whe focus of this discussion.

no one should come to retirement age without some kind of plan.. come on   what do you think they can do now?

So much for "should".  "They" - Why not "We"?  Why don't you help?

minimum social security benefits.. that is still a livable income

Lets see some arithmetic.

unlike what you say, because if they have been living on that kind of income all their lives

They.  Who is They?  What is the difference between "them" and the rest of the human race?  The concept is part of why people are not helping people.

and telling people who have to worked hard all of their lives and planned for their retirement that they are the problem is crazy

Please show where this is in any of my posts.

Frequent Social Butterfly
Posts: 108
Registered: ‎06-03-2011

Re: Haves and Have-Nots

[ Edited ]
Message 68 of 100 (4,836 Views)

Don't forget HUMANS who never had good jobs, were never able to accumulate anything, who did nothing "wrong", and had nothing to plan retirement with?

Frequent Social Butterfly
Posts: 108
Registered: ‎06-03-2011

Re: Haves and Have-Nots

Message 69 of 100 (4,839 Views)

Retiredtraveler:  " It seems, from your posting" and " It kind of seems" are OK but not what the  posts say.

 

"it was created so that seniors had a roof and some food" -  Please read the stated purpose as per the Social Security administration.

 

"there is some way that seniors who have not saved, have 'marginal' income, can now 'take charge' of their finances and make things better" - It's not about what I THINK but about the reality that MANY (Too many!) seniors are not economically soluble in America today and neither Social Security nor society addresses that in any meaningful way.

 

What are the choices?  Since we are in a system with a government that does not effectively help those who don't have, in a society where those who have will not help those who don't, there are far fewer choices.

Frequent Social Butterfly
Posts: 108
Registered: ‎06-03-2011

Re: Haves and Have-Nots

[ Edited ]
Message 70 of 100 (4,903 Views)

According to the Department of Commerce Fact Sheet:

 

"Digital Literacy is Necessary for Today’s Jobs

 

* Ninety-six percent of working Americans use new communications technologies as part of their daily life, while sixty-two percent of working Americans use the Internet as an integral part of their jobs. . . . Despite the growing importance of the Internet in American life, 28 percent of Americans do not use the Internet at all.[vii] * Nearly one-third of U.S. households (32 percent) lack broadband service.[viii] * The two most commonly cited reasons for not having broadband Internet access at home are that it is perceived as not needed (46 percent) or too expensive (25 percent).[ix] * There are notable disparities between demographic groups: people with low incomes, disabilities, seniors, minorities, the less-educated, non-family households, and the non-employed tend to lag behind other groups in home broadband use. * While there is no single solution to closing the broadband adoption gap, increasing digital literacy skills among non-users is key to bringing them online and opening doors to opportunity.

 

These are 2009 figures submitted in 2011!

 

What it doesn't say is that Digital Literacy is not only a key to today's jobs but to making money on one's own.  Seniors, especially, need to be at least computer literate.  That includes more than just email and/or Facebook.  A computer is a Tool, the pliers and screwdriver of the digital age.