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Super Contributor

Haves and Have-Nots

Cal Coast 76-080.jpgThere is a wide and growing, gap between those who have in the world, and those who don't.  Not only is the gap growing but so is the un-willingness to address it in any meaningful way that gets toward actual resolution of the problems at hand and/or, especially, its root causes, which are many, by those who have.  The 2014 economic conference at Davos, Switzerland was supposedly focused on issues of the widening gap between the rich and poor and how to work toward alleviating it.   Almost no time was devoted to this.  Hmmmmm.

 

In the US are many new retirees who are stuck at  minimum Social Security benefits forever, due to having to start their payments early at 62 in order to have ANY income at all.  These decisions are not made of freedom but of necessity - decisions made under duress. 

 

With no other income, the arithmetic does not work out at all for living.  This is existence, not living!  If one is forced to do file early and receive minimum benefits, due to bad economics, the benefits need to increase each year according to what the rate is for that year, as if one is just entering the system, until the maximum is reached at 65 or 66, for those who have no other income at all!  Lest we forget - This is America!  Where are the organizations who "say" they support the well being of seniors?

 

The availability of actual assistance is near nil, with none of that offering anything more than emergency or band aid "help".  (Don't be a single male with no children!)  All the government hype about ending homelessness, helping those who have the least, is just hype, as the "Tale of the Tape" reveals the actual story - Homelessness and need have increased drastically among have-nots.  (An exhaustive and continuing, study is done of Connect-To-Care, the Dallas government's excuse for a help mechanism, which showed their listed "resources" to be the same overworked, underfunded, organizations that have always been there.)  There has been repackaging of the same "resources" lists in other websites and organizations, while the resources themselves remain unchanged or less funded, leaving those who actually need help the most, in the same or worse overall shape.  If there are little to no actual resources available, which is the case in reality, what do these organizations actually do?  Jobs for those who have!  Notice how many low income people are employed in any of these.

 

With the baby-boomer generation coming into retirement age, there is a large number of retirees just entering the social security system, who spent their working lives at relatively unskilled jobs that offered no retirement plan, no insurance, no 401s, and the like, that paid so little that saving was out of the question.  This was influenced by the full scale and unregulated "outsourcing" of jobs, and the demise of unions.  Life after 50 meant jobs and job offers, lessened or ceased altogether.  This economic forced many into accepting less than livable Social Security, made and is making, a large group of retirement age have-nots who are out of work and in need of available assistance.

 

(Of sour note is the many who are plagued by student loans whose collection arms are more than willing to accept and/or forcably take, from those who who have no other income than Social Security and/or who are below the poverty level, leaving that individual with nothing at all, below where rent can be paid, food purchased - a loose cannon.  If you are living on the edge, not making enough for basics, this particular organization will still try and take from you, oblivious to the fact they can be rendering  a person homeless!) 

 

And no, retraining doesn't get you a job or help with age discrimination.  The fact that a senior has to ask someone for a job in the first place instead of having them call you, is the real issue.  To say there is no age discrimination is denying reality in many, if not, most, cases.  Experience is relatively meaningless after a certain age.

 

The question is Not how anyone got to retirement without having, but how to remediate it starting, Now, without looking at how and/or, especially, why, that individual got to retirement age in this shape in the first place. 

 

I think that's called - Non Judgemental.  Remember that one.  Takin a real beatin since the internet!  So has honesty.

 

And especially, of question, why this subject is one that so many don't want to address, see others address, have commentary/dialogue about, and why the refusal to offer explanation to back up this "reasoning"/stance for not wanting such discussion.  If a stance is solid, it stands on its own merit, and there is no fear, no reasoning for not putting it up for scrutiny!   Of question is the unwillingness-refusal to help anyone who doesn't have, without knowing their pedigree, or more.

 

What happened to helping someone who doesn't have, without knowing, or even trying to find out, how they came not to have?  Not just band-aid motion but sufficient to help fellow humans get themselves out of the cycle of poverty itself.

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Super Contributor

"And, if you've slept your way, or drank/drugged your way through high school, you're toast already."

 

Ran into some folks who did this and are now trying to regroup.  I don't think it's too late, no matter the age.  I can only offer what help I can and hope they succeed.

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Super Contributor

Where do you "run into these folks" and exactly what "help" do YOU offer. You never seem to discuss exactly how you help.

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Honored Social Butterfly

@RN362636 

You seem to be addressing some very old post - If you are addressing @EDChou - he hasn’t been around since before Covid hit.

 

There is no problem bringing back up an old post and talking about it again but replying to very old post does make it confusing - might be better just to start a new thread than to discuss something with somebody that may not even be around any longer - at least no here, at least under the same name -

 

 

IT‘S ALWAYS SOMETHING . . . . .. . . .
Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Honored Social Butterfly

 
"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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Super Contributor

This forum is about having and not having, epster, so if you are refusing to contribute with positive dialogue about these subjects, then why post? This is not about me or what I'm doing. I am not trying to "goad" anybody into anything. I'm not asking you for your "guts" nor am I exposing mine. So lets get off attempting to attack me and get to the subject matter at hand.

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Super Contributor

That attitude doesn't help your cause. And quite frankly, you are goading people. Your comments are like a sharp stick trying to drive cattle. It doesn't work.

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Trusted Social Butterfly

You do realize @RN362636 you are commenting to people that posted this thread 10-12 years ago.  Possibly some have even passed away.  Scolding a person from that long ago seems a bit strange., ?

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Honored Social Butterfly

@SereneSeagull 

Gives a whole new meaning to communicating with the dead - but who knows maybe they can check their social media where they are .  😇

FaceBook from Beyond - 

IT‘S ALWAYS SOMETHING . . . . .. . . .
Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Trusted Social Butterfly

Yes! lifetime memberships!  @GailL1 

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Super Contributor

Obviously, people still read these...you and I are here. And still adding comments that are relevant in our opinion. 

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Honored Social Butterfly

[2/4/26] @RN362636 , ignore & keep posting. AARP owns this Community Board and as long as you OBEY their "famous" Guidelines, they have NO problem with you posting. People really need to IGNORE what posts they feel are not of interest to them. 🙃

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Trusted Social Butterfly

lol!  

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Trusted Social Butterfly

@RN362636 

I’m here cuz the posts shows up as new on the list of new posts.  Then I come to find responses being made to posts from people 10 years ago,.  The scolding one to me was over the top, since responding to it is moot at this point as I alluded to. 

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Honored Social Butterfly

@EDChou isn’t - his profile says that the link isn’t valid anymore and the last post was in 2019 - 

Plus this board gets real confusing when there are multiple post to another post - until finally, they just end up all at the top under the  initial post - it just runs out of room.

 

Maybe it would help with the confusion if you addressed whom you are speaking to by simply adding it with a “@“ and then the name appears like this - @RN362636 

 

To each his own - yes, the subject is interesting and can be discussed through the years and probably doesn’t change much except that some folks are gonna lose some benefits as a result of the BBB - 

 

 

IT‘S ALWAYS SOMETHING . . . . .. . . .
Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Honored Social Butterfly

 
"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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Honored Social Butterfly

Here's one, Ed

 

So a few years ago, I had to hire some personal caregivers.  At 1st I had a very hard time finding competent and reliable ones.  But one day, I happened upon a real jewel and she knew a couple of others.

 

After working with them for a while, I was really impressed with everything about them -

They had a plan and needed some help in establishing what they wanted to do with their skills and talents.  I helped them set up an LLC, a business plan and now I just consult with them on things business - taxes, rules & regs, insurance, etc.

 

Now they are (10) - each a partner - I still work with them in their caregiving capacity and they do earn more than the normal personal caregiver pay but that's OK because I know when they are there, I have no worries.  A GREAT group of ladies that have not done too bad for themselves.  I don't know how many clients they have today - not too many but each is a long standing client.

They just keep a look out for anybody else they want to bring into their LLC fold - they are very selective but can't blame them for wanting to keep their standards high.

 

Of course, if they had just gone to work for another personal care agency or for a nursing home or assisted living place, they would not be making or accomplishing  what they are today but neither would they have all the responsibilities for each other either. 

 

Yes, some people only need direction because the drive and their learning ability is there.  Others have problems understanding how to get from point A to point B and don't care to learn or do the leg work.

 

So I think we all make a decision on our priorities - me, I just wanted to be something different than where I came from in education and status - work smarter rather than harder, physically speaking.  I just found people around me to help me and which I tried to emulate.  Hasn't always been easy but I guess for the most part it worked out just fine - I learned how to figure things out.

So I was a Have-Not; today, I am a Have.

 

 

IT‘S ALWAYS SOMETHING . . . . .. . . .
Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Super Contributor

Great Post, gail1.
Thank you.
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Honored Social Butterfly

Please explain why you think business should not be taught from early school forward.

 

   I did. Maybe you have a different idea of what the study of 'business' is. I already stated that to be in business, you need to be grounded in math, science, reading (including lit). You can't do accounting, a must for understanding any business, including ma and pa small business, without a solid math background and reading comprehension. I stated that you need to be able to read a contract. You need to be able to develop and write a business proposal --- takes language skills.

   Is there something else about 'business' you're specifically thinking of?  

You keep harping on the 'have nots'. They are have nots because they lack fundamentals in education,  or do you disagree? You're not going to go up any ladder without good reading and comprehension skills, ability to do basic spreadsheet type math (needed to form a household budget, for example). High school is needed to get those basics which are needed for anyone to even enter the work world. And, of course, you now need PC literacy which does not mean running an app or playing an online game. 

 I don't know what you are disagreeing with me about. 

 

I guess the question is: What is your idea of a business class that should be taught --- what would be in such a class for high school? I've had business law, accountancy, business math, economics all requiring math and language skills acquired in high school.


"...Why is everyone a victim? Take personal responsibility for your life..."
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Super Contributor

All valid.
Now where's the help?
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Honored Social Butterfly


@EDChou wrote:
All valid.
Now where's the help?

  Specifically, what help?  I listed some general ones.  As with anything of this nature - the specific details and situation matters.

 

As to the financial literacy problems - we all have brains which hopefully we have been taught to use by again, another government program - public schools and there is a wealth of information out there on this thing called the internet or for those who have problems using it and need help - a visit to the states social services of whatever sub-category of dept., supposedly there to direct people with a need.

 

 What's wrong with being self-taught especially with the basics?

 

 

IT‘S ALWAYS SOMETHING . . . . .. . . .
Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Super Contributor

Being self taught requires motivation.

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Super Contributor

The gist of the discussion is helping without all the preconditions. Without judgements.
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Honored Social Butterfly


@EDChou wrote:
The gist of the discussion is helping without all the preconditions. Without judgements.

  What are you calling judgements ?

  What are you calling preconditions?

 

Learning to use the quote function here would help with the conversation.

IT‘S ALWAYS SOMETHING . . . . .. . . .
Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Super Contributor

No quotes are necessary.
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Super Contributor

  • I believe you and I may have discussed this before - Seniors on limited income can take that amount and change their lives so that it can go further.
  • 1.  Work longer if they can - course, then you have to keep in mind taxation on the SS benefit if early retirement was taken.

Yes we have.  Working longer is more than it seems.  If you are not working and don't have any money at all, what can you do?  That one hits hard and fast once one hits the streets.  Homelessness is a loop where there is no money to look for work, the bottom to the cycle of poverty.

 

So what to do?  No one strategy works for everyone, but here's one step that helped me forward in a big way:   A person, especially a homeless person, needs a vehicle.  Why? 

 

You can live in your car but you can't drive your apartment.
 

Sounds silly but is very true, especially in a country built on mobility.  One has to get to the job and an apartment won't get you there, Duh Smiley Happy.  The vehicle that did the trick for me was only a broken 80s small pickup found for junk price.  It didn't run but I knew how to fix it.  That and some camping gear got me to the minimum wage labor pools and eventually to other towns and better jobs.  And no, that "good" job has still not raised its head, nor am I "expecting" it to.  The bottom time drilled the tome home that one can't wait on jobs to come to them - Jobs have to be either created or found.

Next step?  We'll see.

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Super Contributor

So do you give free cars to the homeless?

Super Contributor

Thank you and glad to have you back in the mix.

 

I'm seeing so many folks who didn't make it even with what might be thought of as good preparation.  The idea of having, say, $100,000 as a "nest egg" and being secure today is not the same as 1965, or 70, or even 90.  This in itself accounts for some of the difficulties.  The working value of that amount is not the same.  Compound that with - Through Nobody's Fault - we did not re-tool ourselves for business after World War II.  Jobs, opportunity, went away while we played.  We didn't steep ourselves in economics, business, high level machine work, and especially not in people knowledge, like cultural and geohistorical studies.

 

That's why the emphasis on not asking how or why.  There are many "reasons" and/or none at all.  How many of them matter until after an upgrade?  And what can be done about water over the dam anyway?  We're dealing with individuals.

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Honored Social Butterfly


@EDChou wrote:

 And no, retraining doesn't necessarily get you a job unless that training is in self employment.  The fact that a senior has to ask someone for a job in the first place instead of having them call, is the real issue.  To say there is no age discrimination is denying reality in many, if not, most, cases.

 

The question is Not how anyone got to retirement without having, but how to remediate it starting Now, without looking at how and/or, especially, why, that individual got here in this shape.

 

I think that's called - Non Judgemental.  Remember that one.  Takin a real beatin since the internet!

................................................................................................................................

None of your comments pertain to everyone..  there are lots of seniors still working and making as much as they ever did and who did plan for retirement and will have resources to retire with...
no one should come to retirement age without some kind of plan.. come on   what do you think they can do now?  There is social security, pension, personal savings, help from an agency, help form family.. but it is up to each one of us to figure out where we stand and what we can do  and take some kind of action..   and so you are stuck at minimum social security benefits.. that is still a livable income.. unlike what you say, because if they have been living on that kind of income all their lives, this is not a big change..  and telling people who have to worked hard all of their lives and planned for their retirement that they are the problem is crazy..  
What are you looking to have happen?
Life's a Journey, not a Destination" Aerosmith
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Super Contributor

there are lots of seniors still working and making as much as they ever did and who did plan for retirement and will have resources to retire with

There are many more who didn't.  This is whe focus of this discussion.

no one should come to retirement age without some kind of plan.. come on   what do you think they can do now?

So much for "should".  "They" - Why not "We"?  Why don't you help?

minimum social security benefits.. that is still a livable income

Lets see some arithmetic.

unlike what you say, because if they have been living on that kind of income all their lives

They.  Who is They?  What is the difference between "them" and the rest of the human race?  The concept is part of why people are not helping people.

and telling people who have to worked hard all of their lives and planned for their retirement that they are the problem is crazy

Please show where this is in any of my posts.

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Super Contributor

You harp increasing minimum Social Security benefits for all as if any one person here can make that happen. You ask what are "you doing about it" as if any one person can change Social Security. It is the function of the government so you might be better off spending time writing to your government officials. 

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