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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Haves and Have-Nots

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Message 71 of 106

What are you driving at?    Five (5) consecutive posts from you since Dec. 15 in this thread , yet am just as puzzled as ever  -   what is the issue here?  

 

Sure,  there are a lot of elderly people who never saved anything during their working years.   Maybe they never made enough money to save much.  Maybe they were burdened with helping out family members.  Maybe they sold narcotics or otherwise followed a life of crime.   

 

Whatever the reason it is not quite as dire as you make it out.  These very low income types will get a free (Sec. 8) apartment with a generous allotment to pay utilities,  full Medicaid coverage with no co-pays for doctor visits or prescriptions,   food stamps,  a free cell phone with 250 minutes,  free transportation to get to M.D. appointments,  grocery store,  the senior center.   Everything but their cable TV. 

 

Sure,  they may have to bunk with family or friends while on a waiting list to get one of these free apartments.   But that's usually a temporary inconvenience.    

 

Unwilling to help you say?     My taxes are helping to provide all these services to keep a roof over their heads and food in their bellies.  What more are we supposed to do?    Frankly,  when I donate to the local food pantry I am doing so for younger people with CHILDREN.   They are the ones who are really in need of extra help from the government.   

 

Be specific about what you think should be happening,   otherwise your thread will die on the vine for lack of interest.  

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Frequent Social Butterfly
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Re: Haves and Have-Nots

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Message 72 of 106

Why is this so difficult?  Why are those who have, so unwilling to help those who don't, especially without wanting to judge?  How one wound up in need of help is irrelevant.

  • The question is Not how anyone got to retirement without having, but how to remediate it starting Now, without looking at how and/or, especially, why, that individual got here in this shape.
    I think that's called - Non Judgemental.  Remember that one.  It's taken a real beatin since the internet!

 

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Frequent Social Butterfly
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Re: Haves and Have-Nots

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Message 73 of 106

there are lots of seniors still working and making as much as they ever did and who did plan for retirement and will have resources to retire with

There are many more who didn't.  This is whe focus of this discussion.

no one should come to retirement age without some kind of plan.. come on   what do you think they can do now?

So much for "should".  "They" - Why not "We"?  Why don't you help?

minimum social security benefits.. that is still a livable income

Lets see some arithmetic.

unlike what you say, because if they have been living on that kind of income all their lives

They.  Who is They?  What is the difference between "them" and the rest of the human race?  The concept is part of why people are not helping people.

and telling people who have to worked hard all of their lives and planned for their retirement that they are the problem is crazy

Please show where this is in any of my posts.

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Frequent Social Butterfly
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Re: Haves and Have-Nots

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Message 74 of 106

Don't forget HUMANS who never had good jobs, were never able to accumulate anything, who did nothing "wrong", and had nothing to plan retirement with?

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Re: Haves and Have-Nots

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Message 75 of 106

Retiredtraveler:  " It seems, from your posting" and " It kind of seems" are OK but not what the  posts say.

 

"it was created so that seniors had a roof and some food" -  Please read the stated purpose as per the Social Security administration.

 

"there is some way that seniors who have not saved, have 'marginal' income, can now 'take charge' of their finances and make things better" - It's not about what I THINK but about the reality that MANY (Too many!) seniors are not economically soluble in America today and neither Social Security nor society addresses that in any meaningful way.

 

What are the choices?  Since we are in a system with a government that does not effectively help those who don't have, in a society where those who have will not help those who don't, there are far fewer choices.

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Frequent Social Butterfly
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Re: Haves and Have-Nots

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Message 76 of 106

According to the Department of Commerce Fact Sheet:

 

"Digital Literacy is Necessary for Today’s Jobs

 

* Ninety-six percent of working Americans use new communications technologies as part of their daily life, while sixty-two percent of working Americans use the Internet as an integral part of their jobs. . . . Despite the growing importance of the Internet in American life, 28 percent of Americans do not use the Internet at all.[vii] * Nearly one-third of U.S. households (32 percent) lack broadband service.[viii] * The two most commonly cited reasons for not having broadband Internet access at home are that it is perceived as not needed (46 percent) or too expensive (25 percent).[ix] * There are notable disparities between demographic groups: people with low incomes, disabilities, seniors, minorities, the less-educated, non-family households, and the non-employed tend to lag behind other groups in home broadband use. * While there is no single solution to closing the broadband adoption gap, increasing digital literacy skills among non-users is key to bringing them online and opening doors to opportunity.

 

These are 2009 figures submitted in 2011!

 

What it doesn't say is that Digital Literacy is not only a key to today's jobs but to making money on one's own.  Seniors, especially, need to be at least computer literate.  That includes more than just email and/or Facebook.  A computer is a Tool, the pliers and screwdriver of the digital age.

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Re: Haves and Have-Nots

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Message 77 of 106

According to the US Census, since 1970, 90% of the people retire below the poverty level.

 

In addition, the Wall Street Journal shows how the 401K system has not worked for many.  Check out their findings here:  Retiring Boomers Find 401(K) Plans Fall Short

 

If you didn't have a job with 401k or any other such plan, there is less money yet, many times forcing one to start Social Security early, even at 62, forever pegging oneself at the bottom, minimum amount.  Nothing "secure" about that!  Getting hired on jobs also becomes increasingly difficult with age.

 

Remember, General Business and Economics were being taken out of high schools in the 1960s instead of being expanded.  Emphasis was put on getting into college then getting a job, instead of learning to manage and/or OWN the business -Hhaving a dog called MyOwn Smiley Very Happy.  Little to no emphasis was put on working smart AND hard (As per TV star Mike Rowe).

 

We didn't retool ourselves well after World War II.

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Frequent Social Butterfly
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Re: Haves and Have-Nots

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Message 78 of 106

Thank you, Liltman.

 

Yes food is a very good way to make money.  In some places licensing is strict but for the good of both the business and customer.

 

For any endeavor, determining the best venue will help.

 

I work part time also and it does really help, especially when stuck at minimum Social Security.  As much as folks complain about Wally, they DO hire the daylights out of seniors, who do really great work for themselves and Wal-Mart.  Keeping active after "retirement" is a major key to longivity.

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Re: Haves and Have-Nots

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Message 79 of 106

Lee Iacocca's fathe told him that when things get really tough.  Do something with food.  People have to eat.  When my son was laid off for ten months and had just bought a house with his second child on the way, he bought equipment for a kettle corn operation.  He worked mostly week-ends at flea markets, fairs, etc.  After determinining which type of venue had the best results, he was able to earn from $1000-$1200 per day.  Even getting a gig once per month would help pay the bills.  Just takes a little hustle and creativity to survive. My 74 year old widow neighbor works for Wal-Mart.  She always says she will have to work until she dies. 

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Re: Haves and Have-Nots

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Message 80 of 106

I put a lot of different but related subjects in this post to elicit your responses:Smiley Very Happy.

 

Thank you.

 

 

It is true that workers have more rights now than ever but those rights are in many, if not most, cases, insufficient, and/or virtually nonexistent, where there are no unions, which is where most jobs are, especially low paying jobs.  Unions have been on the decline, not only by their own doing, but with systematic help.  They wielded too much power for the big companies.  There was massive corruption from base level to top management.  The history and effects of this demise has been well documented.   Weak, to no, workers rights is a natural and direct outcome of diminished union strength.  What about the question of why the government didn't actively oversee the cleanup of unions and help them flourish, like they did the big companies, when they got in trouble, instead of actively aiding their demise?  For what constituency does a representative work toward making conditions worse for workers?  This is where voting and unions are valuable.

 

Unions today can be more heavily scrutinized and controlled by its users, better serving their constituency, the worker.  One more reason they are so discouraged by big business, i.e. government.

 

Less Worker's Rights =Mo Money

 

Screening "these people" out is endemic of the problem.  Dead Horse Point 9-91-058.jpgWhenever a person can be assigned some nomanclature other than "human" or "individual", they can more easily be seen as different, giving "reason" to discriminate.  (An extreme of this was exhibited in the Rwandan genocide, where many of the dead were said to be "cockroaches" and could be treated as such!)  I ask the question of where a person with the ILLNESS of drug or alcohol addiction is any less human, and deserving of ostracism, as opposed to an equal application of help, AND by whose judgement.  Where does the dollar become that almighty? 

 

A police record places anyone with one in more need of job than those, who don't, as they have that extra hurdle that in reality, does need extra help.   A person can't be assumed to be a "criminal" solely because they have a "police record".

 

I want to take the one about illiteracy and not graduating from high school with enough skills.  Look back among these posts and you will see some of the examples where high schools didn't prepare a lot of people.  Look at the post by mickstuder about his school.  They took out Economics.  Huh?  In my school as a freshman, General Business was being eliminated.  As I said, this is not something anyone purposely did.  It's nobody's FAULT!  The educational system needed updating then but instead we were left with "Shakespeare".  There's nothing "wrong" and the people who came out of this system are not "these people" but US!

 

And no I don't demonize Wally World.   They save money to make money.  I shop at Wal-Mart but I stay away from their cheap stuff for the most part.  The fact that they sell a lot of foreign made products is that most of it can't be made as cheaply in the US.  The products Americans can make the most money from are high end, high dollar products, to be sold to these burgeoning, foreign, economies.  They are looking for "Made in the US" and are willing to pay top dollar for it.  They want it made here by Americans, with American materials and savvy, too, and are willing to pay even more for that.

 

  •  We mostly have an issue with the skills gap --- there are many jobs going unfilled because there is no one with enough background to go into them. Some companies are addressing this and have some type of variation on the old idea of apprentiship. More community colleges are working with local businesses.

This is major and America, we need to look at this and take full advantage of it.  Just because you're 60 doesn't mean you can't learn.  Opposite!  Y'wanna stack that knowledge.  Exercise that gray matter!  Another factor is that jobs are where they are AT.  You have to go to them.  America has always been made of that.  There's an oil boom in North Dakota right now.  Housing can't keep up.

 

And c'mon, isn't DOING fun.  Waddya think about being alive and kickin at 60+?!  This generation of retirees is more mobile, more able.

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