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Age Discrimination in Job Search and the Workplace

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Retired Community Manager

Age Discrimination in Job Search and the Workplace

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Have you experienced age discrimination? Laurie McCann is a Senior Attorney with AARP Foundation Litigation where her principal responsibilities include litigation and amicus curiae (impartial advisor) participation for AARP on a broad range of age discrimination and other employment issues.

 

Ask AARP Expert Laurie your questions about age discrimination, and share your experience.

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Regular Contributor

Here is my take on job hunting. There are no cut and dry answers as to age discrimination. You could be upbeat and youthful in appearance, you could be dry and uninteresting, you could go in with gray hair or dyed hair or you could come in with experience galore or dumb as a bag a nails the main problem will always be (unless you are lucky) the person who is interviewing you. If you look old or your resume shows you have been here a while that younger person has a perception that old equals stupid, one foot in the grave, out of touch....etc......or is intimated by YOU!!! Add race or sex and you have a royal flush. 

 

Don't think for one minute it is all you because it's not.....you got a job in your youth and you are pretty much the same person so what changed.....you aged just like every one else does and will do. I'm not job hunting but I have experience age, race and sex discrimination before I retired. For me, race was the issue in my youth, as I got older, race and sex and once I hit 50, all three ....before I retired. DO NOT THINK IT'S YOU, DO NOT GIVE UP AND FILE DISCRIMINATION CHARGES ON EACH AND EVERY COMPANY THAT SAYS ANYTHING TO MAKE YOU THINK OR FEEL DISCRIMINATED AGAINST. THAT'S HOW YOU MAKE CHANGE!!!

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Conversationalist

Thanks by the encuragement but you really need to experiance what is going on before you can give sensible advice.  Reading your advice makes me feel you have never filed an age discrimination greevance.  It isn't easy since most of the discrimination occurs in such a way that it is impossible to prove.  It is done over the phone and it will be your word agaist theirs. 

 

If it is in writting, you are told you are over qualified.  If you want to be helpful tell us how we can get around these stumbling blocks. 

 

I have resorted to fighting fire with fire.  I lie my ass off in ways they can't prove what I said.  Sometimes I make appointments I don't intend to make.  They don't know why I set them up.  If I think I can get the job with a super interview I take the interview.  The age discrimination is HR polacy not necessarily the manager's position.  They usually want the most competent person they can find.  They will forgive your age if they believe you are the best canidate.  At the job I am at now we had a discussion about age.  I explained I always get the job done no matter what the obsticals.  HR didn't what your to interview me but here I am.   I always accomplish what I set out to do and got around them easily.  I think I can offer you a great deal.  I was hired on the spot.

 

Sometimes we get lucky.  Actually I have gotten lucky 6 times since I turned 60.  Each was a small triumph.  Until you actually job hunt after 60 YOU HAVE NO IDEA!

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Periodic Contributor

You have got to be kidding.

 

I have been chronically unemployed since 2008. The only place that hires me regularly is the Board of Elections but that's only for 3 days a year max and because they badly need people to work that 17 hour day. It's a disgrace that for the past ten years I have been given excuses such as your education/degrees are obsolete, your work background doesn't fit, you were a high level employee and companies are afraid you won't work for less money or at a lower level job, you are older than anyone else at the firm and they are uncomfortable hiring, and even you have more experience than anyone else at the firm and they are uncomfortable with it. Yes, I was told all of these things at one time or another by reputable firms supposedly trying to find me work. I was told by a recruiter at Challenger, Gray and Christmas that I'd be lucky if I ever worked again. It's such BS I can't believe it. But there it is. 

 

Now I am working with a temp agency that refuses to work with me any further until I provide them with my actual diploma from college or grad school. (I tried to give them my grad school alumni ID card with this information on it but that was deemed unacceptable.) They say because they get funds from the state they are required to get this information. I don't know why they just can't do a background search like every other employer does to get the information but they refused. I finally found my college diploma over the weekend after searching for over a month. I received it 42 years ago so it's understandable that it got shoved into the back of a closet. God knows where my grad school diploma is hiding but they don't care; they just want proof of education. They also made me revise my resume to add in work experience from 15-20 years ago to meet their requirements. What was it they needed to see? That I actually held a full time job at some point in my life. My freelance work over the past ten years wasn't good enough even though some of the jobs they are considering me for only require a high school diploma.

 

So here I am on the hamster wheel trying to find part time employment so I don't go through my savings too quickly (read: early) and so far there are no bites from the lines that were cast. No explanation except not a good fit. The whole thing stinks. If you don't know someone, good luck to you. At least that's how it is in NYC where the average age is 36. Do they do this to men, too?

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@tek360, I feel for you.  I could be you.  I was laid off in 2009 which was much better than 2008.  There wasn't a job I was qualified for in the US for the first 9 months.  At 11 months the head hunters wouldn't help me anymore.  I was looking ovwr 100 hrs per week.  I tried retail work, delivery work (they were hiring temps for the holidays).  I landed a real temp job after 13 months of looking.

 

 I was told by a recruiter at Challenger, Gray and Christmas that I'd be lucky if I ever worked again. It's such BS I can't believe it.

BELIVE IT!!!  That is reality.  If you want to perform a miracle you might be able to pull it off.  The most crucial part of your possible transformation is drop the attitude!  You will never get anywhere with a moronic attitude.  If you had a clue of what to do you would have been working for over a decade.  You and most older job seekers are you worst enemy!

 

The first thing you need to realize is you don't have a clue how to get a job.  The rules changed while you were 'sleeping'. 

 

The first rule is you become less desirable every month you have been out of work.  After a decade of being out of work you have a 'kick me' sign on your back.  You need to accept this as fair. If you don't the poison you feel will prevent you from ever getting a job.  You had been a stupid ignoramus, but you have wised up now.

 

The rules changed you need to find out what they are and become an expert on the new rules.  Google how to write a resume there may be links on the resume page to how to job hunt pages. I take notes and cut web pages and paste into my notes. Between resume writing through interview tips. I take job hunting very seriously and am still working at almost 69.

I knew 2 very unsuccessful job seekers. One died jobless after 3 years of unsuccessful job hunting. He only got 1 interview in 3 years. The other still doesn’t have a real job after a decade. At least he is working. They refused to go to how to find a job classes that I told them were essential. They figured they knew more than I even though I had no trouble landing a job. Both had stuff on their resume that would prevent them from taken as a serious candidate so only an ignorant fool would have that on their resume. Both had @aol.com as a contact. These will prevent a human from ever seeing their resume. Job seekers need to completely understand how key word scans will help or hinder their chances. If you have a negative key word your resume goes in the trash with the other garbage. You are not supposed to have anything on your resume that indicates you are 60 or older. One fool had a job that showed he was at least 68. I told him you can’t get hired with that on your resume. He said he was proud of that. I said you will never get an interview until that is removed. My resume is 4 pages while all advice is 2-page max. Being a programmer, I understand key word searches better than anyone who says only 2 pages. The proof is it is rare that I don’t get an interview while if I was wrong I would never get one. I have talked to many head hunters who loved my resume. They fully understood a 4-page resume will always get a higher key word score than a 2 page. It is that score that determines if a human reads your resume. That is where a 4 page resume is more likely to fail. If your resume is cumbersome it gets trashed. Mine is well organized. The reader knows my resume is non-compliant and that actually creates interest. It is organized in a way the reader can quickly find what they want to find. Leaving information from the resume to force an interview back fires if another applicant has that info and is attractive. Staffing managers don’t like to play games. Leaving info out of the resume is a common ploy but will lose to someone like me.

The great part of this new selection process is credentials are not nearly as important as knowing how to play the game. Any fool can get a job if they play their cards right.

 

The reality is most AARP aged job seekers are so ignorant and have such a sick attitude they give all of us a bad name.  Who wants to hire a stupid ignorant fool who things they know more than you?

 

You need to research how to get a job spending at least 40 hrs a week on research.  Discover where community funded workshops are located and start attending them.  You need to uncover all the land mines you have put into your resume.

 

Good luck

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Periodic Contributor

Oh believe me I have tried all you mention and am still at it. I even got turned down for retail holiday help each year through 2016 at all the department stores and now I can't apply for that type of work due to issues I have with standing for long periods of time (medically diagnosed issues, not issues in my head).

 

Back in 2006 (before I became jobless and when I realized the world is changing and I need to get on board) I started going to the Business/Public Library on 34th Street that deals with these job and resume issues. I also attended 5 O'Clock Club and ETP Networking meetings regularly. I actually have a good resume now. I have not been entirely idle; I do secret shopping and the like. It's just that I can't find/land a part-time, sit down job which is what I want.

 

I am not a moron, have not been sleeping, am not my own worst enemy, nor do I believe I know better than anyone else. I do not have an attitude about the type of work I would do or what I'd be paid. That's in the employers' minds. I am about as far from the descriptors you apply to me as anyone could imagine.

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Contributor

I got turned down for a seasonal job too and I look young.   How crazy 

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Conversationalist

@tek360, I don't think you are a moron.  I have been in job hell for almost 10 years.  On average, I would look for a job for 9 months then work 6 months.  That kept me in my house and in the running for jobs.  After 11 months out of work things get bad fast for job hunters.  You are toast after 12 months.

 

You are doing all the right things.  The extra 'good' economy might help you turn the corner.  Networking meetings are the most helpful and help with peace of mind.  Misery loves company.  It is conforting to see other smart professionals in your position. It isn't you, it is the economy.

 

You just need a lucky break.  I don't think I can tell you anything you don't already know.

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After re-reading my post I realize my 500 pages of job hunt info was not in my post.  Bad additude is the worst mistake you can make the other almost as bad is just how much effort and prep you need before you become a reasonable canidate. To get a job you need to be more than overwhelming superior to all the canidates.  I remember being told I blew all the other canidates ways only one was even close to me but I was twice as good as the next best.  Unfortunatly she didn't make the decision.  I didn't get the job even though I blew away all competition!  I hit a home run while the guy that got the job only made it to first base.

 

Most of my jobs were 6 month jobs.  No one wanted to give an old person a permenant job even if he was by far the best canidate.  I am sure you can't comprehend the hate and loathing hireing managers have for old people.

 

I would start to bone up and research how to job hunt after I worked for 3 months.  I start sending out resumes at 4 months.  This gives me a 2 month head start.

 

Another point, my resume was rewritten 5 times before it was even close to right.  The first was done by a professional resume writer.  I foolishly thought that version was competent.  Now I know they were just fixing up resumes for a contract.  They don't need to be catchy.  While you are job hunting it needs to be irristable.  I resisted updating my resume which nearly had me retire in my 50s.  I was my own worst enemy!  I know how it feels.  You are under enormus pressure to succeed but really don't know what to do. Until you start getting interviews assume your resume SUCKS!  You keep changing it until head hunters start to call you.  Then you ask them for advice.  Then you are in a good position.  Every now and then you will get some valuable advice. 

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Periodic Contributor

Oh, and if I haven't rewritten/rearranged/changed my resume 50 times or more you would be quite mistaken.
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I don't care if I work 6 month stints as long as they keep coming. To me, temp is as good as permanent. Maybe even better. I am not looking for a second career. I am not in that group of "where do you want to be in five years"! I want to be happy and enjoy my life with a part time job. I am not a programmer and I certainly don't want to do what I used to do in my past life. I don't want the responsibility. I don't want to manage anyone. I am done with that. And I sure can understand the dislike some have for older people. I see it every day I walk the streets. I guess I am lucky. I don't look my age.
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Contributor

I have recently retired, June 29, 2018 and I have been looking for part time employment to supplement my retirement.  In the process of filling out applications, I keep coming across the question:  "When did you graduate from high school?"  To me, this blantly asking a person their age.

 

Today, I was speaking on the phone with an agency and they asked this question.  I told them 1970 and they said, "I am sorry we can't help you."  Then they hung up.

 

Is anything being done about asking these kinds of questions.  A firm doesn't have to ask your birthdate to figure out how old you are.

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Contributor

They can't ask you when you graduated high school, that is a red flag. 

 

College is different cause you can go to college at any age.

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Conversationalist

@MaryannE932960, that is still concidered illegal.  The reason they ask that question is so they can guess your age. I graduated in 72.  I just lie over the phone. I don't lie in writting. HR are very stupid compaired with a computer progrmmer so I just out smart them. 

 

If you try to be evasive you might just as well tell them you are over the hill.  I tried getting a few companies in trouble but Equal Oppertunity doesn't care about age discrimination.  Because of that it is rampant.

 

I just wanted a job not a legal battle.  

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Contributor

Unfortunately they can and do.  Even the Federal government applications sometimes ask what year you graduated from high school.

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AARP Expert

RuthP720752,

AARP is trying to do something and we agree with you that such questions are irrelevant and ageist. We have asked the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) to make it a top priority to revise its regulations to bar requests for date of birth, graduation dates or similar information unless age is a bona fide occupational qualification for the position. We will continue our advocacy on this very important issue.

Laurie McCann

Senior Attorney, AARP

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Contributor

Recruiters are asking for month and day of birthdate and last 4 digits of your social security number. There is no doubt this is a clever way of finding out how old you are.  

 

I have to work for the next 5 years and I have been on so many interviews, and all I get is you are overqualified.

 

I do not look my age.   Seriously, I wonder if my mother got my birth year wrong.  I am 61 and look maybe 40ish.   I am nice looking, blue eyed, blond, dress well, am in great shape and do not look or act old at all, yet I can not get a job, not even a contracting job.   It is ridiculous and unfair.  And they jobs you do get are at least 30% less than your normal pay, and this affects social security when I am ready to retire in 5 years.  I hope they don't look at the last five years.... I hope they look at the highest years of salary.

 

I run circles around some of the 20 year olds in my office.   I am currently losing my job at a Pharmaceutical company in December.  I have applied for 35 jobs at my current company, I have excellent reviews, even some written by my collegues, and advanced computer skills, plus a Bachelor's degree.

 

I have 5 more years on my mortgage payment too which is why I have to work.

 

Something needs to seriously change.

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Periodic Contributor

I have no doubt that you run circles around the millennials at work. They are basically brain dead from what I see. They are living in a totally different universe. They don't care about anything except themselves. And it's not the kind of thing that parents thought about back in the 60s and 70s. Today's late teens and 20 year olds are quite different from what we were.

I think it's harder for women than men. This is a very general statement but I believe it's true. Age discrimination started for me around 50. It got disastrous after I hit 53. I was barred from getting a job in the field I had been working in for 23 years because they said the requirements for the job had changed. What, you think they actually figured that a different degree would make me do the job any differently than I had been doing it in prior years? It was a ploy to get cheaper workers. Now they use similar jargon to keep out older people.
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Conversationalist

 @tek360

You are right about the millennials. Narcissism has been on the rise since the 60s. Today the college kids tested show they are nearly pure narcissists. No wonder no one stays married! They only worry about themselves.

 

I am a computer programmer. The people I work with were not born in our country and are not very twisted versis the average young American is too twisted to think right. I respect the foreign born far more than an American.

 

The only reason I got a permanent job was at my last gig, I saved the day. We were way behind schedule and I was done my work, so they started throwing work at me. It was done by the next meeting, so they gave be more. At the end we finished on time but I had done 65% of the work. I out produced 4 programmers in their prime. With all that work completed, I had the least reported bugs of anyone in the group. It was all the bugs that kept them on the same work instead of moving on to the next project. If I saw a bug in the code, I commented out the code said in the comments this code would never work right and re-did the code. I didn’t have time to go through channels. Hey I was getting laid off in 2 weeks so I had nothing to fear. Code review is 10 times faster than trying to test out all the bugs. Of course, my level of skill was way beyond the lot of them.

 

When the director of IT for NOAA says hire they guy because he walks on water you hire him no questions asked. They are one of the best run agencies in our government. I continue to do outstanding work so I am good. This is super lucky for me because I was really too old for anyone to hire me even with my credentials. All I need to do is hang in there until the contract expires. We are in the year to year stage. They can cancel the contract any September. If I survive this year I can retire at max SS, at age 70.

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Periodic Contributor

Next time answer "I don't believe this question is relevant to the job in question" and leave it at that. That's the advice I got from my group at Fordham Univ. that has since disbanded. Whenever they ask a question of dubious nature deflect it back to them and let them try to explain. They probably will not pursue.
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Conversationalist

Did you ever get the job after a deflection?  I would bet money you didn't.  Deflecting means you are not what they want.

 

I have done hundreds of those!  Only smooth fast lies work.  If I think I can get the job with a great interview I go to the appointment otherwise I just screw them and not go!  That is unprofessional but feels real good.  Screw the bastards!

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Periodic Contributor

I already said I haven't had a real job in 10 years. But nobody has come out and asked me my age or when I graduated during a job interview. It's the placement firms that do this.

I am firmly in the "gig" economy where the jobs I get do not last longer than a day and do not pay well at all except the Board of Elections but the hours are lousy.
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Conversationalist

@RuthP720752, shocking isn't it!

 

Yes they are blatently breaking the law.  Welcome to reality!

 

There is some help at AARP but you are trying to swim up a waterfall.

 

I used to out and out lie to those questions since the question is not legal.  There is little they can do to you.  My stratigy was to blow them away at the interview.  That only works for jobs that are difficult to fill and they want the best they can find.  That will not help in a job job.

 

I plan to work till 70 then live on the beach drinking tropical drinks.  I was just talking to a Dr who warned me not to retire too early.  Everything tends to drain your savings.  Getting a job over 60 is usually brutally painfull and very frustrating if you can even secure one.  Too many retire early only to discover that was a huge mistake but they are stuck in a terrible position.  No one thinks age discrimination is real.  Well it is VERY real and you will get little sympathy.  You need to live very carefully now. 

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Bronze Conversationalist

















Ask them why they'd want to know such trivial information, since it's completely unrelated to your work experience.





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Conversationalist

How will that help?  If you want to feel good, curse them as loud and much as you can until they hang up.  They will never hire you so no harm done.

 

The problem is unless you search very wisely you will NEVER find a job. No one wants a senior except maybe Wallmart.  They realize seniors have a much better work effort than the young.  The rest of the companies don't even want to look an an old person. 

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Contributor

I have been discriminated at Bank of America for over 6 years now.

I am 63 years old and one of my bosses decided she wanted to be rid of me although I was performing better at my job than most.

She told my manager to fire me however she could.

After suffering anxiety and panic attacks and becoming ill I called HR.

The first representative that I spoke with was sympathetic and helpful.

After I finally filed a case this woman was no longer available to me by email or telephone.

The newly assigned HR representative was rude and totally taking the company's side.

Because I filed a complaint I was not fired but offered severance or a deomotion with a large pay cut.

Since I could not afford to be unemployed and without health insurance I stayed on.

3 years later I applied for a position that I was already doing in another branch. After taking 2 assessments and then interviewing with the man that pleaded with me to take the job I got no response.

When I asked my manager he was told that I am "not promotable".

So now I have a job with more responsibility but I still have the salary that I had as a teller because they want me to quit.

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Regular Contributor

I am sorry that you are going thru this. First advice never go to HR they work for the company and not the employees. You need to file a complaint with the state. It takes a while but it serves to get them off your back and if you lose and they come atter you then file another complaint for retailiation. Take your show outside Bank of America.

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Conversationalist

@debm1955, when you finally leave see a lawyer or better yet see one now you might be able to build your case better.  This is a clear case of age discrimination.  Now it starts at 45, say AARP.Now it is a VERY rocky road for anyone in their 60s.  I am nearly 70 and still working.  I get no discrimination at the job since I have always been exceptional.  It is trying to get a new job.  I was a 'jobber' from 2009 - 2016 getting 3 - 12 month jobs.  Getting hired was brutal and I learned to lie at all the right places.  HR is big on age discrimination.  The manager in charge of the position is more concerned with can you do the job better than the other applicants.  My job is getting clients out of difficult problems.  Just getting a face 2 face with the manager is proof I can do the impossible.  My referances were sterling so I would get the job.

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What I don't like is recruiters ask for your month and day of your birthday and the last 4 digits of your social.  This is a way they can find out how old you are.

 

I work as an Executive Assistant. I still look really good, very young looking, in good shape, pretty, yet I can not get a simple admin job.  People tell me I am overqualified.

 

I still have to pay a mortgage so I need to still work.  What do I do?

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Periodic Contributor

@MaryannE932960

 

Check out these links if you want to work from home. Go through them slowly and carefully to see if there is anything that you might enjoy.

 

https://touch.facebook.com/RatRaceRebellion/?__tn__=C-R

 

https://ratracerebellion.com/job_postings/

 

https://ratracerebellion.com/work-from-home-administrative-assistant-needed/

 

 

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Conversationalist

First thank god you still have your looks and don't look your age.  I used to look 10-15 years younger which allowed me to land jobs.  I claimed I was 9 years younger than I was and was able to get short term contracts.  They were hell but hepled with the bills and more importantly plugged up holes in my resume.  A 12 month gap is death in my line of work.  6 months isn't good but I have some rare skills.

 

Have you tried temp work?  You can try Resume Rabbit or what ever it is called today.  At one time they sent your resume directly to recruiters now I think they post you on all sorts of job boards.  You get seen by more companies.  You need interviews!  

 

Do you have a linkedin account?  There must be some Q&A forums for problem solving in your area of expertise.  Sometimes recurters shop for tallent on those Q&A forums.  They are looking for tallent not answers for questions.  Only play that game if you are one of the best and I would watch for a good long time before I started posting.  If you sound like a dope no one will want you. In high skilled office help, linkedin is a tool of choice. It is free and is stealthy. 

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