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Re: Age Discrimination in Job Search and the Workplace

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Message 211 of 298

>Even if you don’t get the job you get interview practice which is very important.

 

Practice is important. Still, after interviewing for a handful of positions I was qualified for in every way, I get no offers for the jobs in my field.  The only offers I get are from part-time, near min-wage jobs in retail.  I'm 58 & female.  Interviewers all younger than I. 

 

What older workers need is a more aggressive mass group approach to advocacy -- more in the mold of the #meToo, ACT-UP & school shooter protests.  I just don't see these.  Is any group playing hardball to get older workers our rights? Softball, "Older workers are so valuable!" PR efforts just...don't...work. 

 

When I look at the "older worker friendly" companies hiring that are listed on this site they're all bottom of the barrel jobs advertised to *everyone* EVERYWHERE -- selling financial products, driving school buses.  They're so desperate they'll take anyone.

 

Can anyone tell me if there's a more aggressive organization that organizes and advocates and legally challenges ageism in a more in-your-face way?  Or is everyone "too tired" to do this? 

 

Institutions often only change when they're scared & they HAVE to.  Carrot isn't working. Time to take out the stick.

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Re: Age Discrimination in Job Search and the Workplace

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Message 212 of 298

 "I always hand write them since I have gotten comments on my hand-written questions. Some like that a lot. "

 

Reffered to the questions I may ask them.  I normally have the rest hidden so I can cram in the waiting room.  I few times I have taken written tests or answered questions as a confrence call alone.  I got to take out all the answers and did well on those.

 

I update my questions before I leave the parking lot so everything is still fresh.  I usually tweak something after every interview.

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Re: Age Discrimination in Job Search and the Workplace

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Message 213 of 298

@JoanncN227203,

 

All humans are ignorant. I will provide my own view of the hiring process as a community service.  Hopefully, you will be understand the system and exploit its weaknesses. It is better to know the rules than to be the best qualified. The best qualified often never gets past the computer stage of the weeding out process.

 

As the job market tightened up they had to make radical changes. The person who does the hiring is busy like everyone in business these days. 20-30 years ago they might have seen as many as 20 resumes to fill a position. Now it is usually 5. There are maybe 1,000 applicants for that job. How do you get 1,000 down to 5? This is done in personnel. These are probably some of the least technical persons in the company. They usually have a communications degree.  They need to use non-technical methods to weed out applicants. A computer application will eliminate the first 900. HR has a detailed description of the job. They use that in the position posting and use it to eliminate applicants. Some grunt adds the job description to the application. It breaks the description into key words. The resumes are scanned into text and the text is saved in a database. They are graded on a key word search. If a key word is calculus and your resume has that word 3 times you get 3 points. They also have negative key words. You have one of those you are disqualified. The last time I searched @ALO.com was one, ‘references are available on request’ were 2 negative key word/phrase. Note neither have any impact on your skill level. The top 100 will be reviewed by a grunt. I bought one a few drinks to learn her tricks of the trade. She would do 2 passes. The first pass she just looked at the general appearance. If there were pictures, scented paper, expensive paper or eye-catching fonts were thrown out without reading a word. The next run did they appear professional. Did they conform to some kind of resume standard? She would eliminate 80 with very little reading. “Reading takes too much time.” She is likely too stupid to understand the resume anyway. The remaining 20 would go to the staffing manager. They read enough to toss the other 15. BTW the staffing manager has no real clue of what is needed for the job any more than you could pick a good neuro surgeon. Only 5 get seen by someone who knows a good fit when they see one. They will start with 3 of the 5 for interviews. If they don't pan out the interview the other 2.

 

Just to provide a sample of how flawed the key word search is…

A position was opened for a super advanced mathematician. The actual inventor of the math got the Nobel prize for this. He applied and didn’t get an interview. No human saw his resume to discover he had a Nobel prize. He didn’t have algrabra on his resume. This was a flaw of the job description but the person writing the discription doesn’t understand the consequences of putting algrabra as part of the description and they were too busy to ponder that. No one mentions that they can read or write in their resume either. Often the best candidate never makes it to the top 20.

 

My suggestion is to read several articles on key words before you update your resume. That will make or break you. I have a 3-4 page resume depending on margins. That is double the recommended 2 pages. I figure twice the words ought to produce twice the key word score. Mine is designed to be eye scanned fast enough the extra pages don’t matter negatively. They actually help because nothing is left out. I include a brief description of the business and what I did there. Persons who get hired into a ‘different world’ often flounder for a while. In most interviews I get asked about a particular job. That is because that was similar to what they do. They ask me some what if questions to see if I would do the right thing. Some say the description waists space but I don’t think so. No resume writer like my resume because it is a wacky hybrid. ALL the staffing managers love it so their opinion is what counts.  Knowing who to trust is the hardest part of job hunting. A hint, if you don't get calls it is your resume. 

 

What does all this have to do with age discrimination? 99.5% of the applicants are tossed for no good reason. By lying, you can make it to that .5%. Maybe the hiring manager hates old people and you are screwed but often they are far more concerned that you will not be an embarrassment to them. You have a slim chance of getting a job instead of no chance. My experience is that only 1 in 5 will hire the older more qualified person. I remember my expected manager telling me I got the job based on my interview and resume. She said no one came close then she corrected that statement that one person one was a distant second. He got the job not me.

 

Even if you don’t get the job you get interview practice which is very important. BTW I have over 40 pages of questions they may ask me during the interview and 2 pages of questions I might ask them. I always hand write them since I have gotten comments on my hand-written questions. Some like that a lot.  They like that the questions were all written specifically for them and some are modified for them.They are gullable enough to think you pondered a great deal about their company instead that you need to pay bills. 

 

If you can, attend job hunting classes. I had to drive an hour each way for the 3-day class but it was well worth it. Every trick you learn makes it easier and more likely you will land a job. You also can network other job hunters. For most jobs the network is key.

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Re: Age Discrimination in Job Search and the Workplace

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Message 214 of 298

Age discrimination is the same as race discrimination.  You know it is happening, but there is no recourse unless clear evidence is available.  University educated and many years of experience will not help in finding a position that pays more than $14 an hour.  Young people with that kind of education and experience have an easy time landing salary positions with $20 an hour.   AARP has still a lot more work to do.

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Re: Age Discrimination in Job Search and the Workplace

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Message 215 of 298

Please forgive my ignorance but how can you avoid giving your education background if the position requires that information.

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Re: Age Discrimination in Job Search and the Workplace

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Message 216 of 298

Interesting information and helpful, thank you.

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Re: Age Discrimination in Job Search and the Workplace

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Message 217 of 298

If you do give your age your not going to get the job, so I’m not sure there is an advantage.

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Re: Age Discrimination in Job Search and the Workplace

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Message 218 of 298
Never put blank. That will also cost you the job.
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Re: Age Discrimination in Job Search and the Workplace

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Message 219 of 298

There you have all the information you need!  You are a developer so you must be pretty smart.

 

People claimed I am nuts but now I just lie.  I do not lie on a security clearance but that paperwork is not used to week out canidates but an application or a phone interview UI tell them what I need to to go forward.  If they try to fire me for lying on my application, I get a lawyer.  Their illegal age discrimination forced me to lie.  I bet that is the only way you can successfully sue for age discrimination.  The only reason you lied to to avoid age discrimination.  That is illeagal so is making you put your age or graduation in a pre hire document.  I am sure that can't fire you because you lied on information they are not allowed to ask you.  I think by lying you are in a much better spot than where you are now.  No job no prospects. 

 

In the face to face interview I come clean and they ask why did I lie.  I say with confidance then you wouldn't have gotten the best man for the job.  I am also a programmer.  I remind them that I am someone that gets the job done no matter what is in my way.  My job was to get this job, did I fail.  The answer was NO!  The person that hires you is more concerned with your skills and capibilities than your age.  The persons weeding you out don't know good from bad so the weed you out with methods that don't require intelligence. 

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Re: Age Discrimination in Job Search and the Workplace

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Message 220 of 298

It's funny, there is a job opening in my area for a contract SharePoint administrator and I have received a call from about every "staffing" firm known to man... My phone is ringing off the hook as my resume is age neutral and only goes back 18 years. They are looking for exactly what I did at the Florida Department of Transportaion. We get to talking about rate and it's great at $50/hr. I give them all my info, along with my age, and then never hear from them again... it's ridiculous... There is no protection from age discrimination.

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