Age Discrimination in Job Search and the Workplace

[AARPLynne]

Have you experienced age discrimination? Laurie McCann is a Senior Attorney with AARP Foundation Litigation where her principal responsibilities include litigation and amicus curiae (impartial advisor) participation for AARP on a broad range of age discrimination and other employment issues.

Ask AARP Expert Laurie your questions about age discrimination, and share your experience.

[anshb2662a8]

try race discimination and then race discrimination and age together. both are subtle unless you are smart enough to know it when you see it and the difference. this combination caused much grief and anger and bitterness because under both I was unable to promote. But, I retired 10 months ago and this chapter of my life, I can do and be what I want. I will be an advocate for both race and age discrimination because no on should be judge on the color of their skin and hair.

[lmccann58]

@anshb2662a8, you raise a very important - but often ignored - issue - that different forms of discrimination (i.e., age and sex or age and race as you have unfortunately experienced) can intersect to impact individuals.  Unfortunately, courts don't often understand this process and instead analyze them separately instead of seeing how they combine to the victim.  At a recent symposium on the 50th anniversary of the enactment of the Age Discrimination in Employment Act (ADEA), AARP had a panel on this very important issue - intersectional discrimination.  Thank you for helping to raise awareness.

[v421405m]

I have applied for 100 jobs a month for the last YEAR. Still can't get hired and I turn 60 this summer!

Veronica McDowell, RN   Florida 215 Life and Health Insurance License December, 2016	  (Veronica) Ronne McDowell, RN, NADONA, AALNC [personal contact info removed by AARPLynne]
Skills: RN 2159902 Florida expires 2019 Level 2 and Federal Financial Background Screens Up to date and available 2021 CPR Up to date 2018 Certifications And Training	●      Extensive experience as a Registered Nurse, all in Duval, Clay and Palm Beach counties ●      Equally extensive hospital clinical floor staff experience in the ED to include triage, conscious sedation cardioversion and codes, Open Heart, GYN, Doctor assisted procedures, Orthopedic, Pre-and Post-operative patient care. Physician assistance in clinic and bedside. ●      Nurse Management of staff in skilled facilities, Case Management, Director of Nursing, and Home Health collaboration, both paper and electronic auditing, and prescription evaluation. ●      Medical Records paper and electronic auditor for Quality and training ●      MDS/OASIS Review and Care Planning per regulatory compliance ●      Vendor coordination of services for Discharge Planning such as Hospice, Home Health, Durable Medical Equipment and Dialysis, Worker’s Comp evaluation and follow up. ●      Patient care coordination within the hospital and skilled facility and in the community as Supervisor of Case Manager for Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance ●      Proficient in both paper and electronic medical records retrieval, audit, review and documentation (EMAR) ●      Team leader in Joint Commission and AHCA survey processes in the hospital, skilled, and assisted living facility setting. ●      AHCA, NCQA and HEDIS audits for Medicare, Medicaid and Insurance ●      Assessment of patient and family needs in the hospital, rehab, and home setting ●      Marketing of Skilled Facilities for potential admissions. ●      Utilization Audits for management of Budget Maintenance and Cost Containment, to include supplies, food and capital expense budget constraints.  •               ICD-10 review Florida Blue, Jacksonville FL •               HEDIS/STARS Quality Review Florida Blue •               Business and Ethics Compliance Florida Blue •               MMA and Child Welfare Training Certification Centene Corp                 Certified Tru-Care Case Management Documentation Tool •               HIPPA Compliance Centene Corporation •               Supervisor of Care Management Centene •               Supervisor of Sickle Cell Care Management Centene •               Supervisor of Obstetrics Care Management Centene •               CCRC and ALF Core Training Taylor Residences, Jacksonville FL •               Extended Congregate Care Training Certification Acadamas •               Corporate Director of Nursing Training, LCCA, Cleveland TN •               Train the Trainer, Life Care Centers of America, Orange Park FL •               Certified Legal Nurse, Life Care Centers of America, Orange Park FL •               Certified Risk Manager, Abuse Coordinator, LCCA, Orange Park FL •               Certified 30-hour trainer IV Certification State of Florida for LPNs  •               National Certified Director Nursing, NADONA, LCCA, Orange Park FL •               Aseptic Certified Port-a-catheter insertion Memorial Hospital Jacksonville FL •               Point-click-care, Certified Workday, Silver Chair, AHT, ADP •               Paycom. Microsoft Office10 Products, Multiple SharePoint Products                        Veronica McDowell, RN NADONA, AALNC Work Experience: April 2017 to present taking the summer off to pursue additional Certifications. ·         Interim Director of Nursing at Canterfield of Clay County, 1611 Winners Circle,  Middleburg, FL 32068 ·         Contact Brenda Lee, Director of Marketing, 904-710-1134. Limited Nursing Services, Deficiency free survey 5/11/2017. Does not require RN to lead community, by regulatory compliance. ·         September 2016 to October 2016 Interim Director for Hurricane Mathew ·         Oversaw facility  during evacuation of hospice evacuees. ·         Contact Henrietta Copeland 561-392-3000 HR ·         Whitehall Boca Raton, FL 7300 Del Prado Circle S. 33433     June 6th , 2016, to September, 2016 My home was hit during Hurricane Colin, extensive damage Ef-2 Tornado requiring project management for re-build ·         Florida Blue Independent Contractor for Alls Well 904-330-3080 ·         December 2015 to April 2016, Jacksonville, FL. 32246 ·         Independent Contractor for Quality and Education HEDIS/STARS audits        Trained some new hires for STARS project. Dually trained for HEDIS data extraction, chase and retrieval within Altegra and Florida Blue WIT tool built in Blue-BI program.  Contract completed August 2015 to December 2015 Daughter fractured pelvis in car crash needed rehabilitation and supervision of Diagnosis of Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis and medication compliance.
Education           Â	·         Sunshine Health (Centene) Supervisor of Case Management ·         Jacksonville, FL. 32256 Call THE WORK NUMBER         ·         Direct Supervisor of office and field Case Managers, Program Specialists, and Program Coordinators for Obstetrics, Uncoordinated Care, General, Complex and Transplant Cases for the Medicaid population in the community. Maintained payroll, time and attendance, case assignment and productivity data collection and reporting.  Performed screening, interviewing and hiring of applicants. Proctored weekly field staff call in meetings and monthly Hospital Interdisciplinary teleconferencing. Supervised telephonic outreach of office staff, reviewed and audited electronic medical records for compliance per AHCA and NCQA standards. Resigned, Daughter in car crash, requiring 4 months of Rehabilitation          ·         Taylor Residences Director of Nursing for Taylor Home ·         Jacksonville, FL. 32209 Joe Gaughn 904-465-7175 ·         Clinical director of Taylor Home which includes independent apartments, a 78-bed assisted living facility with an adjacent 24 bed skilled nursing wing, for a total of 102 clinical beds. Served as the Risk Manager for the facility. Responsible for coordinating patient and family needs. Supervised, hiring, staffing and training of new staff, monthly quality assurance, infection control surveillance, employee health, abuse coordinator, care plan coordinator, admissions and discharges, and assessment of potential new residents and direct patient care. ·         Recruited by Sunshine Health. ·         Life Care Centers at Orange Park and Wells Crossing ·         Orange Park, FL 32073 Margery Flannigan 904-272-2424 ·         Director of Nursing, Assistant Director of Nursing, Unit Manager, Director of Clinical Education. Certified Risk Manager. Employed in two buildings during this tenure, supervising staff of a 180-bed skilled facility and a 120-bed skilled facility. Performed all duties required of a DCS per AHCA and Joint Commission regulations. ·         Recruited by Taylor Home ·         Florida State College Jacksonville, Florida ·         Associate Degree in Nursing ·         Jacksonville University, Jacksonville, Florida ·         Completed 24 credits toward BSN
Awards Publications and Extra-Curricular Events Charitable/ Social Awareness Activities	Veronica McDowell, RN NADONA, AALNC ●      DON of the Year by the Regional Team LCCA ●      Great 100 Nurses of N. E. Florida ●      Whatever It Takes Award Life Care Center Orange Park Created curriculum  for Clinical Laddering for LPNs and CNAs LCCA Created “Code Blue” System for Life Care Centers in Orange Park , FL. and Wells Crossing, also in Orange Park Organized bi-annual skills fairs for CNAs, RNs, and LPNs to meet mandatory employment requirements of CEU Charter member of a nationally recognized non-profit organization that raises funds for Pediatric Hospice Care, Mandarin Food Bank and Gleaners Dispatch with two annual events, and monthly charitable donations to various local projects such as Cystic Fibrosis, Wounded Warriors, Ronald McDonald House and March of Dimes. Cancer Walk, Recent Breast Cancer awareness day participation. Also Campaigning for Equal Pay For Women.

[RobertaM389981]

I have recently remarried and we purchased our first home in Pioneer, CA, leaving Silicon Valley after living there for almost 45 years.  I am 56, my husband is 47 and 100% disabled but mobile.

I first experienced age discrimination when I was attending college in 2012, I was interviewing for internships.  I even listed on my resume 'I have over 25 years of administrative/accounting experiance', no one ever scrolls all the way down a resume.  I was awaiting my appointment for the  internship interview at a CPA Firm in Campbell. The woman conducting the interview called my name and as I stood up to approach her, she again called my name to be sure that I was indeed the applicant and immediately gave me a 'frowny face'  with the Oh, as she turned to lead me to the interview room. 

I was given an interview and actually was offered an internship at the time, (I did this as a wake up call, she did not answer and I was being a smart-ass), but I declined stating I was not going to work for a company who does not fully read the documents that pertain to the situation at hand. 

I have seen that 'frowny face' often enough to know that I am being discriminated against because of my age, hell, even McDonald's gave me the 'frowny face' but stated I was overqualified as I asked for an application; loopholes, who knew.

I have been frantically looking for work for the last 1 1/2 years using the internet with 4 employment websites.   I get job offers for minimum wage/part time work, in San Jose, Fremont and Los Gatos, (over 3 1/2 hours commute each way).  I am offered jobs in Rancho Cordova, Elk Grove, and Placerville (2 1/2 hours of commute each way) for full time work, $12.50 an hour with limited benefits.  Depressing.........frustrating!

I am so stressed about just looking for work online, not getting any responses is disheartening, and I think I would rather hit the pavement in 100 degree heat then continue to be old and ignored by an inanimate object, the computer. 

I am going to complain, something I rarely ever do, I am sick of going Hungary one week a month, we are becoming reclusive, staying off our porch, embarrassed by delinquent property tax bills and afraid we will loose our fist home within the next three years because employers think I am too old to work and assume I am going to be a financial medical catastrophes that cannot possibly be hired because old is no longer economically feasible to even consider hiring! 

Baby Boomers are professional, we know when and how loud to speak, we also know our limitations, we have integrity, we care about taking care of ourselves and those we love.  My dad is 82 years old, a few months ago he tried to enlist in the Navy, the Navy allowed him to take the test, he passed all of them and only missed two questions on the written test, my dad felt like Superman, I was proud as hell!  Thank goodness the Navy knows their limitations........

I am so angry with the Social Security Administration, that I am going to  blame them for being discriminated against, I could be eating hot dogs right now if it weren't for them!

 In April of 2013, The Administration sent a letter to my man stating that both him and his daughter had been overpaid SSDI Benefits since 2003, entitlement for both in 2006..  Long story short, no attorney in the state of California would help us, we went through the entire administrative process of appeals to the overpayment; finally got a hearing with ALJ in August of 2014. Written decision dated 8/13/2016; We appealed on 9/2016 and The Appeals Council ordered a Remand and Vacated the 2014 decision in 01/2018, Appeals Hearing held on 9/2018 and I proved claimant was not at fault for overpayment. 

However, The Administration has withheld all of the SSDI benefits for both of them since August of 2014, which put us in a financial downturn as we await the written decision which could take another 6-8 months.  The overpayment for both my husband and my step-daughter is, according to Appeals Council is approximately $70,000.00.  I think I want to be an attorney instead of an accountant.  I did a pretty good job of defending my husband's integrity against The Administration, but alas could not put a big enough fire under the butts of justice to hurry up.   

Hopeless, I just have to find work, the worst part is that I cannot even prove I am being discriminated against...........I find most people I have spoken to about this feel the same way, nothing I can do or say will make this any better...........proof may be in the pudding, but the courts don't like chocolate!

I am getting off my soap box now, thank you for listening!

Sincerely,

Mrs. Stewart Snyder, Old Lady

[sherrys21502]

Hi Mrs. Snyder,  I am so sorry you have had so much trouble with your life.  I hope you have

taken your troubles as a learning experience.  I have mine!  Thank you for your reply to my email regarding age discrimination.  When you

pass a certain age, usually in your 50s, most employers do not want you because they want the unprofessional

babies just graduated from college so that they can offer them the bottom of the company pay 

scale to start out and train them the "company's way".  It doesn't matter how much experience we

have (lifetime) they want young folks so they can train them their way!!  As seniors they do not

want us telling them a better more efficient way to do things that we have learned and experienced

along our career.  It is only their company's way or the highway.

When I moved from one state to another state I did not have a job and I took a risk even though I was 58 years old at the time.  I was not ready to retire, this was in 2005.  I went to work for 2 temp agencies at the same time and they were always sending me to job interviews and I landed one at an insurance company and

the owner, CEO, and president both interviewed me at the same time.  They liked me and hired me

as their receptionist, switchboard, and admin. assit.  The CEO didn't care how old I was he just 

wanted a mature and professional employee at that front desk.  I was lucky!  Some companies are senior friendly.  Please go to your local senior center and they will help you find a job with a company that is senior friendly; also have you gone to your local unemployment office to search for a job?   I retired in 2016

and decided in 2018 I wanted a part-time job only, but no one wants a senior!  Age discrimination is 

everywhere and it is difficult to prove.

If you experience age discrimination on an interview just look that person in

the eye and say that is age discrimination, so that they will know you aren't stupid, because they were to even insinuate it, and say I 

would never work for you.  There are employment attorneys you can discuss with them what you

have written to AARP.  They could probably make suggestions for you.  I would take notes at

every interview and make a notation of the day and time of the interview.  The attorney would like

to see your notes.  This would be a smart move!

I do two volunteer jobs at this time and I am respected at these jobs!  Hell yes, I am always early to work and always learning and going to meetings so that I can be better as a vol. employee.  I have

an attiutde to do my best everyday.

Good luck with your job search and in life too!

Sherry

[ResumeJane]

Hi Veronica,

100 jobs per month! Time to restructure your resume and make a solid plan for applying. With experience, it is always the best to really focus in on the jobs you want and make sure your resume resonates perfectly. Age, I don't see as a factor, and neither do my clients (they also all have a 100% success rate in getting interviews with my resumes.)

It really comes down to pinpointing exactly what recruiters are looking for. From what you have posted, there is missing piunctuation, tenses are missing- it also does not appear that you have a summary, and probably the resume is simply not set up to garner interest. It also does not appear to have the right keywords/phrases needes for Applicant Tracking Systems (ATS) - those pesky ways that computers make sure you are the right candidate before a human reads your resume. Also, when applying so rapidly, and maybe even within the same medical system, company, or ATS... Your resume would be redflagged as something that may not show you are being an eager candidate that is passionate for a position- but rather just a job. Recruiters are looking for that something special. So even just a very focused resume for each position could help- or atleast you should applying with a purpose.

If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer them for you.

x,

ResumeJane

[RonMesnard]

@ResumeJane, I gave you a Kudo since you are one of the few who has a clue as to what is expcted in a resume for this topic.  The recruiter only wants to the top 20 out of the hundreds of resumes sent.  You can be the world's expert and because of a lacking resume, your resume was never read by a human. This is a god send for the medocre since they have a shot just by knowing how to play the game.  Seniors seem to be more resistant for learning how to play the game.  They second guess their would be bosses and never get an interview. So much for being 'too smart to fail'.

I would suggest having your resume written by an expert.  $200 is well spent here.  It will not be perfect but it will put you in a much better position. Once your resume is close you will get free advice from recruiters. I would look at a resume posting service like resume rabbit.  They will have resume writers who will re-write your resume who passed resume rabbit's scruteny.  The catch 22 is if you don't know much about what is in demand you don't know enough to pick a good one.

[lmccann58]

@v421405m, I am so sorry to hear about your prolonged and frustrating job search. I am not a career counselor and therefore cannot offer you specific advice - other than the obvious of leaving off your graduation dates and only listing the most relevant jobs for the position you are seeking.  But, if you haven't sought the advice of an expert, it might be worth the time.  AARP has some helpful information and advice on our website as well.  Otherwise, don't give up.  Such long searches are unfortunately far too common - but hopefully your perseverance will pay off.  Best wishes and thank you for sharing your storye.

[RonMesnard]

@v421405m

Age discrimination is rampent and is not enforced at all.  After reporting a few ramapnt cases I now just lie.  If I ever got pinged about lying.  I will say I lied because you gave me an illegal question.  I suspect they will be in more trouble than I.

It was bold and a good idea to post your resume.  I will try to help you.

 Not knowing what you are looking for means I have a limited ability to help your specificly.   If you ever expect to ever get an interview you need to sell yourself big time.  You aren't selling your self at all.  You are only listing your jobs. 

You need to identify what you have to sell then sell it as hard as you can.

The hard part is landing a job. Anyone over 50 will face intense age discrimination and that goes double for over 60. Anyone over 50 can't use a dinosaur mentality. What is a sure thing there are too many applicants to process for an opening.  Most of the most qualified applicants will be weeded out before their resume gets read by anyone that can recognize a promising candidate.  You need to be a complete expert in key words.  There are good and bad key words.  One bad key word will kill your chances of ever being hired. These change from company to company.  Google 'keywords for resume'. Here is one good one

https://business.tutsplus.com/tutorials/how-to-use-resume-keywords-and-phrases--cms-27311

but it stinks in how to find the right key words. Go through 20-50 job listings  you think you are well qualified for.  With a highlighter highlight what you think are the key words and make a list.  THESE KEY WORDS MUST BE IN YOUR RESUME if they apply to you. 

My resume is extremely effective and is 4 pages long.  Persons who warn your resume needs to be 2 pages or less are ignorant. I am lucky in that I am a programmer and have written grading routines like this.  Most routines add to your score everything a key word is found.  Most don't care that it found it before.

Let me explain.  Almost every hiring process is different but this is a common occurrence for a head hunter process. They tend to be very automated.  A hospital is big enough to have an automated resume grading system.  Often most qualified applicants will not survive the weeding out process mostly due to incompetence of the hiring staff.  This favors those who know how to play the system. They tend to be highly automated. Your resume is read by a computer looking for key words. The world's expert in a certain super advanced math wasn't even interviewed for a position that relied on that skill.  His resume did not have the word algebra so he was kicked out.  This was used as a case showing how capricious this system can be and how careful you need to be writing your resume. Your resume will be scored.  They a low paid unskilled human will throw out 80 of the 100 that were the high scores for key work search.  I know having 4 pages is pretty much theating but I will probably get the job anyway. They will throw out resumes because of the color or other foolish ways to weed them out.  This is where a longer than 2 page resume can get you in trouble.  However, it is unlikely they will toss out one of the top 10 for any trivial reason.     With humans reading your resume you need to sell your self within a second or two.  You must tell them who you are and what you are selling in the top 1/4 - 1/3 of the first page.  If they are buying what you are selling they will go further.  There are 2 types of resumes.  Chronological and skill set.  They prefer the skill sets because that is focused on what they are buying however you can easily hide a failure so no one really trusts them.  I use a hybrid which takes up more space than the other 2.   It is chrono but the skill set used is at the top of each position.  If they are interested in that skill they will read about your job and how you used those skills.  They only need to read what they want and can skip jobs that don't interest them. Head hunters love this style because it is easy to see what you are selling but written and organized in a way that makes it easy to spot trouble. The resume builds trust.  It is rare not to get a phone interview when I apply for a position.  If you do not get call backs you have a problem with your resume. 

I will explain how my resume came to be.  My contract of 18 years finally closed.  We knew a year before that we were competing for the contract again and we learned 6 months later that we lost.  Our company had their resume writers rewrite our resumes.  I though I was good to go.  What I didn't know then was that these were only supporting a contract they were not selling you.  If you want a job your resume needs to hard sell your skills. After 6 months with no interviews my friend had his staffing manager check out my resume and she said no wonder, it is terrible even though it had been reviewed by a head hunter who deemed it fine.  I finally swallowed my pride and took the managers advice.  What I have learned is if you have a great resume most readers agree.  If it isn't you will get lots of advice much of it conflicting. Some people like chocolate others vanilla.  If you get in this position spring for a pro to spruce up your resume.  I can assure you I will not be perfect after spending hundreds on it but it will be better.  Once it is good enough you might get some free advice from a HH head hunter.  They are trying to sell you.  One sent me a resume of the winner which had all the contact info removed.  I couldn't believe how powerful the first 1/4 page was.  That was my big break.  I went from having a sucky resume to a contender. After that the advice was tiny or in one case superior formatting made key skills pop out. After it had been written by a pro it was rewritten 5 or more times before I stopped rewriting it. This doesn't count the dozens of tweaks that were made after it was right.   When I give my rez to get rewritten for a client I always ask to get a copy. That is how I gained a little polish.  After 3 years no one touched anything except my contact info. Then I knew it was about as good as it gets and was as good as it needed to be.  I would usually get a face 2 face interview from every application.  It took another decade to nail down the interview.  That was even a more difficult process than the resume.  Without a super resume you never get the chance to improve your interview skills.

This new hiring process favors persons who know what to do over the best fit for the job.  If you are out of work try to attend as many networking events as you can. Find out what persons you deem competent see as useful things they have learned.   Spend 10 hrs a week researching how to job hunt.  I know a half dozen dino who never worked after their big layoff because they refused to listen to advice.  2 fools had @AOL.com in their email address.  One died 4 years later still jobless and the other is slowly worming his way into a job.  Neither got a job using their resume within 4 years. If you are getting less than 2 interviews a year take the advice. Lastly, trust persons who have been out there.  People who haven't looked for a job this century don't have a clue as to how to go about getting one.  They will claim they do if they are a know it all.

You need to invest in yourself and hire a resume writer.  After that hopefully it will be good enough that you will start to see interest.  Any time you get someone asking about your resume ask them what they think. 

Remember just because you hve the best resume and the best interview doesn't mean a senior will get the job.  Once I was told by my manager if I got the job that she couldn't believe how well I interviewed.  No one even came close in fact there was only one other applicant that seemed compatent at all.  That canidate got the job.  What I can tell you is if you don't hit a home run you have no chance securing a job. 

My credentials...  even at 65 I averaged 6 months between jobs at a time when the average 60 year old took over 2 years to find a job.  I never landed a perment job but they would let a senior have a 3 - 12 month temp job. Most were 6 months long so I had plenty of practice securing jobs. Practice does make perfect. Now that I am past full retirement age I have a "permenant".  I got this because at the last job I saved the day as a one man army.  I out produced a group of 4 programmers without hardly any bugs.  We had a strict dead line to make anyd everyone was caught up in too many bugs to be able to finish thier work so I took on what they couldn't do.  I must have gotten the walks on water recommendation.   This means it is not a temp job so I get paid for Christmass The temp company pockets your holiday pay. My contract can be cancled at any September until I am 70.5.  Then all the contract extentions will be used up and that will be the end of my working carrer.  It is irony that only now that I can confortably retire that I have this job.  My agreement with my wife was I will continue to work as long as they will have me but I will NEVER job hunt again.  It is sad that even if I am twice as good as the next best canidate I will probably not get the job. Job hunting is lots of work   

[lmccann58]

@RonMesnard, thank you for joining the conversation.  I do want to weigh in to say that I would never recommend lying on a job application or in an interview. Doing so gives an employer and independent and legitimate reason to refuse to hire you -or to fire you - if they discover your false statement.  Declining to answer or leaving the field blank (if possible) on an online application is preferable.

[RonMesnard]

@lmccann58, lying on a job application is indeed foolish since you sign and date them making it legal. Usually there is some wording that says misrepresentation on the document is terms for termination.

However, it may be wiser to lie in a less formal setting.  I tried not saying and get rejected then report them with no success.  By lying I have gotten the job but I didn't lye on the written application.  If you amaze then in your interview they really don't care that you are not at the optimum age.  Some may even be impressed with your artful dodging of land mines in your path.  In my profession being smart and able to circumvent obsticals is why they hired you. 

If you are in a  state that was Yankee during the CW I am certain you can successfully sue if the company tries to make a case about you lying on an illegal question.  You will have no problem finding a lawyer who will work on contingincy of winning.  By going after you they have proven themselves fools and ripe for plucking.  They have already indicated they broke the law by going after you.   

lmccann58, I was hired 6 times after 62. Even though these were short term contracts I was still making $40-50/hr. Out of the 20 seniors I know who were laid off I was the only one to land a good paying job.  The other got janitorial and retail jobs.  

[RonMesnard]

Maybe you are more versed. Before I became a progrmmer I was a manager for 20 years.  I spent 10 years with managing the teamsters.  During that time I fired more men in my dept than the rest of the plant combined. It is not that I was tricky but I knew exactly who could get away with what and the best way to pursue a wrong doing. I never made a mistep either with a technicality or a general morality. I was protecting my department and my men.  I always made it clear why I did something and what the rules were.  Some times I granted leaniacy even though I had the guy dead to rights and I made him/her agree I that them dead to rights.  Some times rules aren't alway fair all the time but I was.  Most of that was to give who ever plenty of opportunities to make thing right.  I read magizines filled with interesting labor board ruling monthly for 20 years.  My men fully respected me and I never held a grudge for past behaviors to anyone who improved. 

No one will nail you lying to someone over the phone after being asked an illeagal question.  Unhless the conversation was recorder the accusation is worthless.  I am fairly certain I could get a settlement out of an issue.  The burdon of proof lies with the employer.  The purpose of the board is to protect employees from their employers. It reatly helps if the employee understands the system better than the employer.  Trust me!  Asking illeagal questions is not concidered ethical no matter what you think! 

[LogicsHere]

@RonMesnard  You seem to be far more knowledgable about finding a job at a later age that instead of coming across in a condescending nature which you may not be aware that you are doing, perhaps you could "teach" us instead.  I call out specifically your comment to me about resumes. In my sister's case we tried 3 different types of resumes.  Perhaps you could create a sample one and paste into this page.  It would certainly be most helpful in sharing  your knowledge instead of coming across as boasting or a know it all, instead we would respect you as a teacher.

[EdnaY462801]

You do realize that you have some grammar mistakes that kind of defeat the purpose of your advice!

[ResumeJane]

It actually doesn't defeat the purpose of the advice at all. It just says- perhaps I shouldn't answer posts on a phone with autocorrect and a small screen to edit on when there are people that want to diminish good advice while trolling through comments at 3am online. 😉 The advice still stands and rings true! But thanks for pointing it all out Edna!

[RonMesnard]

I hate auto correct because usually I don't catch it.

I say if they don't like your advice because of some grammer errors they don't need to take it.  This reminds me of my favorite Chinese proverb.  Wise men learn more from fools than fools learn from wise men.

[RonMesnard]

@LogicsHere,

I keep my promises...

Before I give you a piece of a resume I need to explain why I get so out of shape.  I know quite a few seniors who looked for work none that I know were very successful.  Out of about 20 I am th only one that got a real job even though it might have been a temp job. A few I know most of the details.  Seniors do tend to get set into their ways but they are oblivious to the obvious.  It is hard enough to get a job as a senior but if you sabotoge your job hunting you will ever get another job.  I read 2 resume's that had a contact email ending in @AOL.com.  If you read 25 articles on key worrd for resues at least 20 will tell you it will never get by prescreeing so a human will never read your resume.  One had a job that he started in 1965.  That means he had to be over 67 years old.  25 out of 25 articles will tell you never have anything in your resume that will indicate you are even 60.  The old fool refused to remove the two short circuts even after years with no success.  His house was under forclosure but he lucked out and died of a heart attack so his family didn't lose the house. That is what I mean by a dinosaur.  They give the rest of us a terrible name!

This is only ment as a clue you will need to craft something that will work for you. 

I don't care if anyone respcts me I see this as a pay back and an honest attempt to reduce some misery. I have been there and done that and it was terrible!

Career Summary

(Why should they read further) Extremely motivated and results-driven programmer/analyst with exceptional leadership skills and an extensive background in the following competencies:

• Software Development, Database Management and Application Enhancements
• 10 year or more of PowerBuilder Versions 5-12.5, PL/SQL Oracle 7 – 11, Clipper all versions
• Java, ColdFusion, PHP, MySQL, XML, Appeon, .NET (2005-2010), SharePoint, SQL Server Reporting Services, Remedy, Fortify, Dreamweaver, Ajax T-SQL for 2005 database all less than 1 yr
• Many years using Crystal Reports and SQL tools like SQL Navigator, Erwin and Toad

(If they like what the see they will continue to read on)

• Career High points
• Award for Excellence from the Vice President of the East Coast Division of EG&G
• Commendation from Deputy Director of Information Resource Management at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission for exemplary efforts in evaluating calendar systems for 5,000 users
• Recognition from the project manager of the CBSI contract with EPA for saving his contract twice

Education 

• B.A. in Biology, Lycoming College, Williamsport, PA
• Training 

• Introduction to Power Builder - course held at CBSI Headquarters
• Courses in dBase III+, Basic, C, Pascal and , PHP, PL/SQL, Montgomery College, Rockville, MD
• Numerous Clipper, Netware and management courses/seminars
• Unix-based Spectrometer (FTIR) Usage Course, Perkin-Elmer Corporation, Ridgefield, CT

Skills

Analysis                       Re-engineering, Requirements Analysis, System Analysis, Application Design, Documentation, Test plans

Quality Assurance        Unit testing, Writing Test plans, Integration Testing, Data Quality Assurance

Helpdesk Services       Provides information and assistance resource that troubleshoots problems with software, OS and network

(Above is my skills inventory and why they might want to hire me below is my work experiance.  It is mostly where and how used my skills.  I start with a brief description of the process.  Other than skills, having worked at a simelar operation usually makes it easier for the canidate to succeed.  During the interview they often latch on to a specific job for detailed questions.  I assume their environment is simelar to that position and they are learning if you are right for the job.  During the initial review they will be able to scan for skill(s) they require they saw in the top half  and see if you fit.  This format makes it easy to see exactly who you are.  How you describe the job will provide insite as to how you think ande what you think is important.  The beauty of the resume is even though it is way too long if you have the right bait at the top they will read it.  It is easier to extract what they want from this well organized resume than from something cramped that really can't be scanned.  Those persons don't understand what the reviewers are trying to do while I do. That is all part of getting the interview!) 

Experience

(Title) Senior PowerBuilder Programmer/Analyst

Job details line 1

Job details line 2

• The project: CO-OPS is responsible for maintaining a network of automated sensors that track weather and ocean changes. CO-OPS combined multiple databases designed before 1990 into redesigned database to improve efficiency and data integrity. The backend was a 260 table Sybase ASE 15.7 database and the front end was PowerBuilder 12.5. Was part of a team of 5 which modified the old code to use the new database.

Analysis:

• Review the code, plan the modifications to use the new table structures and identify buggy code.

Programming

• Performed the code modifications

Quality Assurance:

• Responsible for unit testing and integration test plan
• Assisted users performing the integration tests and user acceptance testing
• Remediated user complaints

 (Never forget you are trying to sell, sell, sell!  Good luck!  The hardest sentance is the first where you are trying yo convince them that you are what they want.  I don't think I did the best job there.  The unusual format creates enough interest so my one-liner can be a bit weak.  Make sure to add the key words where they are needed.  You get points for each occurance so don't scrimp!  If you add your key words when appropriat, the longer resume gives you an unfair advantage during the most brutal phase of the weeding out process. )

[4176jp]

Age in the workplace should be celebrated and appreciated. Employers will greatly benefit by hiring a mutli- generational workforce that includes todays milennials many of whom have a different set of values having been raised by single parents. 

Lets face it- Seniors do slow down but need to stay active as they also live longer.  There needs to be a give-and-take!  Applying for non-competitional positions will allow us to learn tech skills from our younger tech-savvy generation to keep abreast with technology that is changing with lightening speed and in exchange, they benefit by imbibing our core set of values which has always been: Work hard, be loyal, Be on Time, Respect others, Work as a team and everyone benefits!

[RonMesnard]

@4176jp , from my experiance, most seniors are resistant to change.  In some cases that is warrented in the others that is a weekness. 

Why should the younger genertion cellibrate you?  What have you done for them that they know of?

In this new work world we need to work fast or retire.

[JulieK260428]

What do you mean by "Applying for non-competitional positions"? I'm confused.

[sherrys21502]

Jobs that are competative in nature.  Jobs that are highly desired!  Jobs that pay a lot.  This jobs are 

mostly in the business world such as; sales. If you can really sale you can make more money than

a V.P. of a company.  

[RonMesnard]

@4176jp, thanks for mentioning seniors do get slow. Too many think the younger generations have no reason to get on our case.  That attitude makes troube for seniors. We are more resistant to change.  Some of that is because we have seen simelar actions fail in the past.  We do have value. 

[ShannonB663950]

I am all about our younger folks and older folks sharing in the workforce and getting along. What I don't agree with is disrespect from any age.  Mobbing is a real thing, I'm living it as I speak. I have more experience than you can imagine in different systems, web testing etc. that the younger generation could benefit from but they don't want to learn from someone older and think they know it all.  Quality has gone out the window replaced by the amount of work that can get done, this alone will setup a company for failure, just give it time.

[4176jp]

After 20+ years in the Recruitment Industry working closely with HR, nothing will change unless and until we initiate it. Why don't you suggest putting up an 'incognito' suggestion box to be opened up at company meetings for all to review. You can put in your own suggestion without reveal yourself as the author but can instead offer to head it up when it comes up for initiative action. It worked for me!

[sherrys21502]

What really needs to happen in the work world are managers who have management skills!!!  No one

who is 20 to 29 years old should be a manager!!!   They don't have enough life skills and haven't

seen a good variety of problems and have enough experience to be a manager and are NOT MATURE enough either.  I have witnessed all of this myself.  No manager in any company should be allowed to micro-manage it is a form of bullying!!  

[chas9770]

Seniors are old school. Some don’t like this modern technology. Some don’t like the new system. If some old geezer as someone put on the persons name died of a heart attack, maybe part of the reason is the system.

im struggling because I believed someone and now that someone will have to answer for his lies.

the person what he felt was right! He was being honest!

it seems the new school as we observe more and more everyday now doesn’t believe in honesty and some of the seniors we have in the political mainstream just don’t seem to care!

I worked for a company that not only used my age against me countlessly, but also controlled when I could eat or text or have any kind of freedom!

I went from being their top salesperson in automotive battery sales to being a lot attendant because I was getting old!

there are a lot of seniors out there not working because of the system!

they don’t act old but they become old! You hear it all the time! 

[RonMesnard]

Sound pretty typical.  Get rid of your most productive worker because they are getting old.  The smart and competent manager would keep you doing what you did best until you don't anymore. 

[RonMesnard]

@LogicsHere, to understand me you need to know I survived job hunting at one of the worst job markets in US history 2008-2010. I don't know any survivor of that nightmare who wasn't deeply scarred. Unemployement at that time ran from 14.4 to 14.7%.  15% is a depression. After we found a job we still worked on our network contacts and continued to to build a war chest for the next time we were out of work.  We never went back to normal after landing that job.   My list of possible questions they may ask me at an interview is over 40 pages.  I have 5 pages of what I might ask them during the interview. These are updated before my car leaves the parking lot after the interview.  I have hundreds of articles on resume writting and may still have good resume examples.    

I start reviewing my war chest about a month before my contract is to end.  The last thing I do it update and review my resume.  Too many times I see something I correct on something not touched in 5 years.

My experiance been that the openings all have way more applicants than be processed.  They routhlessly liminate as many as they can with as little work as they can.  They change the rules for what is in and what is out regulary just to get rid of applicants more easily. I suspect they lose some of their best applicants this way but who is to know. 

I knew a manager who had too many jobs listed on his resume.  His first job listed indecated he was over 65.  You are told not to list such a job.  You don't want anyone to figure you are over 60 from your resume and under 50 is maybe better.  Sometimes you keep a job because you got an award. What to keep is not an exact science. 

The manager's last job handled a 5 million dollar a year contract.  That is a huge deal and indicates he is very competent.  Still,who in the world would want to interview someone so foolish as to flaunt that he is over the hill to run a 5 million dollar a year contract?  No one in 4 years.  I content is wasn't the age but the lack of wisdom and commensense that killed him.  Worst of all I spotted that out in his first 6 months and he was too bull headed to even experiment leaving it out. He was living proof that some of us can't function adiquatly once we are that old.

If your sister's resume indicates she is over the hill she needs to fix that. She needs to revew all the dos and do nots for resume writting. The list is large.

I have lied and got the job and never been called on it.  They knew exactly how old I was when they hired me.  The age thing was just a screening process.  The only smart thing to do was lie to get their foot in the door.  After that I am honest.  I was never even asked why I lied. They pretend like that never happened.  Now I happen to be excellent at my job.  I don't know what would have happened if I wasn't so good.

[RonMesnard]

@LogicsHere, If I don't post something of a resume tutorial ding me in 2-3 days.  I have to jump through a few hoops and I can easily forget.  The only resume I have here at work is a corportate resume.  They are not supposed to 'sell' any team member.

I have tried to get my son to write one for his resume for years and he still doesn't have one because of the difficulty  I doubt he understands the business he is in well enough to write such a statment.

If you are sending out 50 resumes a month and don't get any replies your resume sucks!  When my resume sucked, I defended it tooth and nail so I know both sides of the argument.  To move forward you will need a better one. 

[RonMesnard]

@LogicsHere , if you think I am too condescending, try reading my posts before I was very politely told I was full of crap and instead use tactics that never worked for me instead of ones that do work.  I wasn't  condescending at all before that.   

By telling the truth or omitting the truth disqualifies you instantly. They want to discard 90+% of the canidates for what ever reason anyway.  How is that a smart idea? If you get fired for lying you get to go before a labor board. You can't collect unemployment in my state until your case was reviewed if you were not laid off.  By telling the truth you get nothing the worst case senario is you get 6 months of unemployment after working a few months.  To me the labor board is a win win situation. Either way you have much more than you had by following the rules. The most likely result is you will get rehired and the employeer fined for breaking the law. It is up to the employeer to prove they were in the right while the employee doesn't really need to prove much they are innocent until proven guilty.  I have been in business for almost 50 years.  It amazes me how ignorant companies are about the law.  They rairly know they are breaking the law when they do. My formost study for my first 20 years was learning what you could and could not gert away with.   When you are a senior out of work you ought to use every trick in the book. I never put false info on any document I sign and date.

You make an excellent request.  I have been staring at the screen for a while.  I will try to come up with a strong beginning for a resume.  I will need to locate my resume.  Since I am not looking any more I don't have it handy.  My challage may have a limited appeal since it is honed to a nasty point directed at a problem my industry faces.  I will need to make the focus far less pointed. All industry is struggling not to go under.  What everyone is looking for is a  champion who will fight and win for them.  Everyone on yoyu team will prosper being carried alone in your wake.  You must convince the reader you understand what they face and that you can turn the tide for them.  That may sound easy but it is not.  Nothing about you matters if you can make them a winner.  In my industry for my job it is always the same.  They have an unsolvable problem needing to be solved.  You say a minimum about the issues facing them because you want a wide an appeal as possible.  If you have the required skills and present them in a professional focused way they will want to see what you are made of. It is pretty much like unfolding midevil battal plans.  Here are my weapons and armor and this is how I will crush the enemy. 

I you are going to survive the interview you had better know how you are going to dig out what dragons they need you to slay and then tell them how you will do it.  They will give you a small opening at the end of the interview before you are dismissed.  They always ask do you have any questions?  That is your show time!  There are tons odf books and articles on this so yopu might want to crack a book.