Social Security Letter Stating We Owe Them $

[PabloL856307]

My wife is a retired teacher since 2014. The school system does not pay into Social Security. She retired 10 years ago and has been paying her Medicare premium through bank withdrawals. Now, 10 years later, the Social Security sent us a letter stating that we owe them about $20k. They did not provide an itemized statement showing how they calculated the $20k. I called Social Security and they said to call Medicare to provide an itemized statement and when I call Medicare they state that Social Security is government agency that handles the Medicare payments by deducting from her social security payments. No one has the information I request. The situation is that since she does not get Social Security, she was paying with bank withdrawals. Bottom line, we cant find anyone that can show us how they calculated that we owe them money. After calling several times all l get is finger pointing between agencies but no resolution. I even filed an appeal about 6 weeks ago and did not receive an answer. Its like it went into a black hole. Any ideas? Thanks !

[GailL1 · Accepted solution]

@PabloL856307 

Here is some more info for you - It is the Social Security Administration that has authority in determining and collecting Medicare premiums, including IRMAA premiums.  

Make an appointment with your local Social Security Office to discuss the collection letter and your Medicare premiums - you should ask them to set the appointment up with the manager because of the amount and the complexity of the problem.

Do this ASAP because there is a chance they could cancel your Medicare Part B for one or both of you.,

You should get a breakdown of the amount they are asking your to pay as a back payment.  It should come in a letter format.

Another thing you can do now is to call the office of your Congressman in Washington.  They have aids that are suppose to be familiar with the different programs so they should let you talk to the one that has specialty in the area of Medicare premiums - describe your problem to them as good as you can and hopefully they will be able to at least get all the details for you, maybe more.

Have you decided on your course of action yet - meaning the questions I asked of you think about in my previous post.

Keep a copy of all correspondence and a log of all phone conversations - this is important and needs to be corrected ASAP.  If I learn anything else I will let you know.  Good Luck.

[GailL1]

@PabloL856307 

I think I forgot to ask if you and your wife have set up your Medicare account?  I THINK it shows premium history if billed rather than auto deducted from Social Security benefit.  I might be worthwhile to set it up if you and your wife don’t have on.

Medicare.gov - Create an Account 

Anyplace that has some of your info might help in the analysis when you the folks at the SSA.

[GailL1]

It does get confusing as to which of these agencies has oversite and actually in your wife’s case it is gonna be a bit of both.  Social Security deducts these premiums from people who are getting a benefit check but since your wife does not get one of these then she should be getting a bill every month or quarter on how much she owes.  

I am gonna assume that you are talking about Medicare Part B premiums - Now let’s see if we can figure out why they are billing you such a high amount.

I assume that your wife is verifying that the amount does come out of her bank account every month.  I assume she knows how much the regular Part B premium is every year.  Her method of paying these amounts from her bank is fine per this Medicare instruction.  The 1st question is she paying the right amount.

Medicare.gov How to Pay Part A and Part B premiums 

I can give you the amounts that it should be every year since it changes so if you need that let me know if you need that.  However 1st let’s look at something that could possibly be the source of this problem and you will have to verify if this might be the problem - especially since this is such a large amount.

Most people with Medicare pay about the same thing for Part B premiums BUT higher income Medicare beneficiaries pay more on top of this regular annual premium.  The rates in the last ten years have increased as well as the amounts so instead of getting into all of this without verification that it might be where the problem is coming from I will just give you the figures for this year (2025) to see if she (single) or as a couple (married filing joint) would be involved in this.  

So get those filed income taxes out.  Cause that is what it is based upon -   BTW, Medicare bases these premiums on your income from 2-years back because that would be the last one to which they have access thru the IRS.

Also it is based on all income - single or MFJ depending how you two file your tax returns.  It also includes any capital gains you may have had from the sale of a home - any retirement account distributions or even if you did a ROTH conversion. Whatever is your taxable income is the source of these Part B premium adjustments.

These Part B premium adjustments are on top of the regular Part B premiums that everybody pays - but the 2025 chart has them added together.  These adjustments are called the Income Related Monthly Adjusted Amount or (IRMAA).  These are the rates for this year - 2025 and they would be assessing it on your income tax return of 2023.  

Medicare.gov 2025 Medicare Cost Fact Sheet 

 ➡️ Look at the chart on page 2 - ⬅️

Do you think this is part of the problem?  

BTW, this could be one year or two or so years out of the 10 she has been retired and filed for these Medicare benefits.   It wouldn’t have to be every year but could be -  Remember the amount of these IRMAA adjustments are based on your tax return from (2) years back.  So 2023 tax return was used to assess the 2025 IRMAA premiums.

If this is not the problem, I have some other ideas but it will probably be best if you make an appointment with your closes Social Security local office and take all your info and the letter to see if if they can help you.

There is contact info below the chart on page 2 of the 2025 Medicare Cost Fact sheet link above.

I will be most happy to help you narrow it down but more details will have to be provided - just let me know,

Good Luck

Came back to edit and add - if you draw Social Security with the recent passage of the Social Security Fairness Act your wife may be able to draw Spousal benefits off your record - which would be 50% of your PIA.  

[PabloL856307]

Wow, this is a great answer. I appreciate your time to help with this.

It is complicated. We file jointly. Since she retired in 2014, with no SS benefits due to TRS, she was making her own payments by bank withdrawal until I retired in 2020. She is 6 years older than me. 6 months after I retired, and started getting SS benefits (She got a small fraction of my benefits), my ex-boss calls me and offers me a contract job. My IRMA went up and so did hers, significantly. Also, during COVID, there was a period of time where we were not getting her payment invoices from Medicare and no payments were done. We could not send payments blindly. Fast forward to today, I have been back to work for about 3 times (9 mos. each time) and my income has thrown IRMA on a loop for me and her, paying almost double. I think this is all due to IRMA. It appears it took them a while to catch up as you said and that is why they sent the letter saying she owed them money. We know we have made payments, maybe not enough, but I would like to see the payment statements. I have called them 4 times and all I get is contradictory statements and finger pointing with no one offering to send me the basis for their claim. Now it gets more complicated with the Fairness Act because now she qualifies for 50% spousal benefit retroactive to Jan 2024. When I called today to follow up on that they said they are applying the retroactive to the amount that is owed first and then after all is paid, then she will start receiving the 50%. All of this happening in the background with no notice or information provided in their Online site or by letter. When we applied for her 50% due to the Fairness Act, first they sent a letter denying the benefits. Today they said that the benefits were approved as stated above.

I have never seen anything like this.

Sorry this is a bit of a ramble but this is just complicated. Any idea as to what I should do to get the basis of the claim showing how much we owed vs. how much we paid and the deficit per month? There has to be a file somewhere documenting how this was all determined, but the people that answer the phone when I call have no clue.

[Tonster521]

@PabloL856307It appears that you and Gail1 have concluded that the $20,000 is for IRMAA. As you may not know, IRMAA was enacted in 2003 and was first implemented in 2007. So, IRMAA has been around for about 18 years.

You did not indicate if you set up an account at medicare.gov to access the information that you are requesting via phone request. It appears that you may have underpaid Medicare as well as IRMAA for some time. I suggest you calculate your shortfall and compare that amount versus Medicare's amount. You may find that Medicare has understated your shortfall which is favorably to you. I would not bring that to their attention.

You did not indicate how long you and/or your spouse did not make any medicare payments. I do not know why you/spouse did not receive any medicare premium bills. I do not believe the medicare premium bills are manually generated. I believe they are computer generated. Perhaps the folks that run the computers did not show up for work. At any rate, I am providing a link to a sample medicare premium bill which also advises that you can pay your medicare premiums various ways. https://www.cms.gov/medicare/cms-forms/cms-forms/downloads/cms500.pdf So, there are records of your payments and you are not paying "blindly". You can print the data and have accurate records.

You indicated that payments were made by bank withdrawal. Are you referring to a NOW bank account? I thought those types of accounts disappeared when Dodd-Frank Act was enacted. Or do you mean "paid by check"? I strongly suggest to set up a medicare account and you will be able to manage your premiums due/paid. More importantly, you will need to develop the amount of your underpayment should you pursue an appeal.

Lastly, you indicated that you had three contract jobs (with past employer) since separating from service in 2020. Each contract job was about 9 months. Unless the duties were totaling different than your past duties while on the payroll, you may argue the case with your past employer that you are a reemployed participant and eligible for health insurance benefits. You need to review your Summary Plan Description (SPD) to determine if eligible. FYI, there may be a provision that states 1,000 hours of work qualifies you and eligible dependents (spouse) for coverage with employer's plan. It is worth the time to review. Good Luck.

[GailL1 · Accepted solution]

@PabloL856307 

Here is some more info for you - It is the Social Security Administration that has authority in determining and collecting Medicare premiums, including IRMAA premiums.  

Make an appointment with your local Social Security Office to discuss the collection letter and your Medicare premiums - you should ask them to set the appointment up with the manager because of the amount and the complexity of the problem.

Do this ASAP because there is a chance they could cancel your Medicare Part B for one or both of you.,

You should get a breakdown of the amount they are asking your to pay as a back payment.  It should come in a letter format.

Another thing you can do now is to call the office of your Congressman in Washington.  They have aids that are suppose to be familiar with the different programs so they should let you talk to the one that has specialty in the area of Medicare premiums - describe your problem to them as good as you can and hopefully they will be able to at least get all the details for you, maybe more.

Have you decided on your course of action yet - meaning the questions I asked of you think about in my previous post.

Keep a copy of all correspondence and a log of all phone conversations - this is important and needs to be corrected ASAP.  If I learn anything else I will let you know.  Good Luck.

[PabloL856307 · Accepted solution]

Hello, this is an ongoing situation.

Due to the Fairness Act, we had applied for her 50% spousal benefit as previously stated. We received two letters from SS a couple of days ago. One letter said they denied the claim and the second letter approved the benefits. The left hand does not know what the right hand is doing.

They deposited a check in her account, so we are happy about that. However the deposited account did not include all the expected retroactive payment. We are not complaining but would like to know how they calculated it, that is all.

I will follow your advise and set up a meeting at the local SS office.

Another thing I am finding out is that it is a pain in the rear when you go back to work after receiving SS and Medicare benefits. The IRMA goes up and a higher percentage of the SS benefits gets taxed. Big headache. I am thankful that they call me back to do consulting work but geez what a pain !

Also, I thank everyone that contributed to this conversation and provided some ideas ! This is a great forum.

[GailL1]

@PabloL856307 

Here is the Social Security page on the WEP/GPO elimination under the SSFA - this has been their actions to date since they started giving the back benefits so it is updated as they progress.  The last update was on 05/12/2025 

You may want to read the back story on your questions about this. 

For the IRMAA problem - ask to speak to the manage of a person at the local SS office that understand the way IRMAA s work in the calculations of these added premiums.

Do not forget your tax returns - hopefully you have them back to when you started on Medicare (and the 2-years prior) - because that is what they based the IRMAA on - your tax return for (2) years back.

Good Luck - remember to call for an appointment.  

Call 1-800-772-1213 the National number to make an appointment.  

SSA.gov - Social Security Fairness Act: Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP) and Government Pension ... 

[PabloL856307]

Thanks !

[GailL1]

I had a feeling that it was gonna involve the IRMAA -

Foremost, a priority right now is for them not to cancel her or your Medicare Part B.  

But before we talk strategy - let me ask you

1.  Is this is the 1st time they have sent a letter on this deficit?

2. Do you get statements on your Part B premiums>

3. Has she or you, with all of your going back to work, ever cancelled the Part B and then restarted it?

4.  Is your objective just to get an itemization from them, if possible, or do you want to make sure that it is correct which is gonna involve some info gathering and some accurate dates on your part?

IOW, are you gonna accept that they are right or are you gonna verify that they are right?

5.  This is weird that they are just now coming up with this - but actually not really - a lot of stuff has been put on the back burner up to now - let’s just say, they are doing a lot of housecleaning that should have been done years ago.

You think these questions over and I will attempt to see if I can get you a better [more direct] contact if I can.  Maybe, maybe not - what you really need is somebody at the local Social Security office that understands IRMAA’s and can work with you on the 10-year happenings.  

I will try to get back with you tomorrow. 

[PabloL856307]

I just want to see the basis for their determination and attempt to verify its accuracy.

Based on my interactions with SS so far I am not convinced of their efficiency and correctness. For example, the conflicting responses and lack of backup information. Also very frustrating that you cannot contact whoever evaluated the situation and sent the letter. Also, they stated in the letter where they granted the spousal benefit that the retroactive started in December 2024. According to the Fairness Act, the retroactive should go back to January 2024. We never cancelled the Part B.

One question, putting the Fairness Act aside, when my wife retired due to TRS, she did not have any SS benefits and paid her Medicare premium with a check. Now since we file jointly, and me taking Medicare, if I went back to work kicking IRMAA into high gear, would her Medicare premium also go up even if she does not receive SS benefits?

[Tonster521]

@PabloL856307I am providing a link to historical Medicare IRMAA brackets thru 2023. You can look up the brackets for 2024 and 2025 at the SSA website or search the internet for IRMAA. https://www.irmaacertifiedplanner.com/historical-medicare-irmaa-brackets-2007-2023/ As I mentioned in an earlier post, you need to develop your underpayment and compare to the SSA underpayment. It is simple arithmetic. I have developed an amount based on the info you provided. Because you did not provide important details, I made some guesses and arrived at an underpayment of $21,188.60 which is less than the SS amount. I developed the underpayment based on your sentence that you did not receive any invoiced during Covid and may not have paid Medicare premiums and IRMAA for your spouse. So, I used no payments from 2020 through 2024 at the third IRMAA bracket. Of course, you need to adjust my guess with you and your spouse's exact information. You will need your calculation should you pursue an appeal. The SSA will not reverse their decision based on a person not receiving an invoice or medicare premium payment bill in the mail. The SSA provides several easy ways to make medicare and IRMAA payments. Also, you are required to notify the SSA of any changes to you and your spouse's income. You can submit form SSA -44 online or in person. I believe you can call as well. However, wait times can be frustrating. The notification requirement is a procedure to reduce or eliminate overpayments and underpayments of Medicare premiums including IRMAA.

Although you did not indicate if your spouse was covered by your employer's plan while you were employed, I developed your underpayment from 2020 and used the calendar year since you did not provide the date your active employer coverage stopped.

[GailL1]

@PabloL856307 

Your wife’s ability to get any back pay from the SSFA is tied directly to when she filed for it even if it had a substantial reduction which would include no benefits at all.  The important thing is that she filed for them - I am guessing she may not have thus the reason why she was paying her Part B premiums from a bank draft.

Normally they would have adjusted her SS benefit for the WEP/GPO deduction and then if this did not completely cover her Part B premiums, they would have taken the SS benefit and then billed her for any difference.  This would have required a continuous manual adjustment year after year.  

She will be getting her benefits going forward now that she has filed for them and her Part B premiums can be deducted from her SS benefit rather than being deducted from her bank accoun.t

Yes, they will have the details but I don’t know why these were not included in the letter of the amount owed.  Complexity may also be added with your stop and start of working.  I assume in those years you filed your taxes as an independent contractor or self-employed (Shedule C) and paid both the employee and employer part of the employment taxes on Schedule SE.  If you did not - added problems.

The IRMAA adjustments in the years when they incurred is adding complexity to the whole matter - I hope you have comparing information from your records.   Most important age those tax returns - starting (2) years before the IRMAA began.

Also what is important is what you and your wife paid for Part B and the IRMAA.  

Yes, this is all gonna come down to math but it is gonna cover a lot of different components.  Just understand what should have been done vs what was done -

And of course, there could be some missing payments but that is less likely in the total scope of all the computations,

[PabloL856307]

Hello,

I did set up an appointment at the local SS office to obtain the needed information.

Luckily, we met with a great person that cared about our situation. We inquired about the IRMAA payments and reviewed a few conflicting letters we had received from SS.

She stated that she had to talk to her manager to access the relevant information. She went away and we waited maybe 20 to 30 minutes. When she returned she said she found some mistakes in the letters and said that those mistakes would be corrected and a new letter sent reflecting the updates.

A couple of things she said about the 2023 Fairness Act was that it was not retroactive back to January 2024 but only six months back from the date when a request is made. But, when we received the final letter, it awarded the payments back to January 2024.

All in all, going to the SS office was a lot better than calling on the phone because when you call, it appears that the people they have answering the phones can address the "mundane" issues, but complicated matters have to be elevated to higher managers and depending on who you talk to they may not elevate the situation and you may not get the correct or expected answer.

So, the reason I posted this final message is to share with others that may have complicated issues with SS, to offer that the best bet may be to visit your local office and ask that the manager or analyst help out if you are not clear about the answers provided.

Also, bring as much relevant information you have to the meeting and think ahead of time exactly what questions you have. I had developed a spreadsheet calculating my MAGI dating back to 2014. Took me a while, but allowed me to have an idea of what MAGI payments we should have made vs how much we actually paid. Having this information was helpful. Took a lot of time !

I am over 65 and remember in the past that with customer service agencies when you wanted to resolve a problem, the person you call was an expert and was able to answer complicated issues. Not anymore. Now the "first level" people can answer simple to moderate issues but there is a different tier of people that can resolve the more complex questions and the first level people have to elevate the issue to them. The idea is that this concept saves manpower but I am not sure this is the best for the consumer.

Good Luck and Thanks for helping!