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NSF and EPA Timeline: Colleagues in Cover-up

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Message 51 of 861

DavidF's default is always to call other people liars. 

 

NSF timeline from their own website shows they began working with the EPA on establishing standards for plumbing equipment in 1980 and assumed responsibility for water additives per EPA agreement in 1985: http://www.nsf.org/about-nsf/mission-values-history 

 

NSFtimeline1985wEPA.png

 

Another important thing to realize is that in 1983, the Surgeon General created a special committee to ascertain just how big a deal dental fluorosis was. The committee told him in May that yes, dental fluorosis is an 'adverse health effect' and confirmed the MCL should remain at 2.4. Yet, the Sept. report of those committee proceedings inexplainably said dental fluorosis was a 'cosmetic effect' and in 1984 the EPA process began to increase the 2.4 MCL/MCLG to 4 ppm, which wouldn't have been possible if dental fluorosis was listed as an adverse health effect. That change was implemented in 1985 without any scientific backing from the EPA who simultaneously contracted with the NSF to oversee water additives. http://fluoridealert.org/researchers/epa/timeline/

 

Here is an excerpt from that May 1983 report out that was altered in Sept 1983 by unknown parties order to facilitate changes that endangered public health but were politically expedient for players. Latest government figures confirm that over half of American teens have dental fluorosis, with 1 in 5 having moderate to severe dental fluorosis (est. 800,000 severe): 

1983toSurgeonGeneral.jpg

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Re: Fluoride is a drug when consumed for medical or dental purpose per FDA

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Message 52 of 861

billo, let's take a look at what you just said:

 

Your quote:  "In my last post I told you how Congress defines a drug.   One way is "INTENT" of use.  FDA considers a placebo a drug.  Makes no difference if it works or if it does not work, the INTENT is key to a drug."

 

This is a quote from a Mayo Clinic website:  

 

A high-fiber diet may also help reduce the risk of obesity, heart disease and diabetes."  

 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/high-fiber-foods/...

 

You say the INTENT makes something a drug.  The Mayo Clinic says if you eat Apples, Beans, Bran, Oranges, Carrots . . . as part of a high-fiber diet, you are helping yourself reduce the risk of diabetes.  

 

According to what you just said, if you want to stay heart-healthy, you're drugging yourself when you eat an apple, because your INTENT has medical consequences. 

 

Do you fully appreciate what a joke your argument is?  

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Re: Fluoride is a drug when consumed for medical or dental purpose per FDA

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Message 53 of 861

billo, we were talking about "Carry Anne"'s false statement that the FDA outsourced its workload to NSF. Your comment here is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

 

Nevertheless, the EPA has never said that the FDA is responsible for adding fluoroscilic acid to water distribution systems.  What you just said is a blatant lie.  If you have some kind of problem with reality, or you think something illegal is going on, the correct forum for that is a Court of Law, not the comment's section of an AARP website.  

 

Oh, sure, it's easier to pull the wool over the eyes of an AARP website administrator, but not so easy in court where you would have to face informed parties.  

 

You know, I'm surprised that a legal genius like yourself would make such a laughable blunder as to lie about a supposed Freedom of Information Act Request that you made to clarify the meaning of a clear statute in the SDWA.  The FIOA doesn't exist to clarify law.  It exists to request documents which have been hidden from the public.  

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Re: Fluoride is a drug when consumed for medical or dental purpose per FDA

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Message 54 of 861

Billo, your quote:  

 

"David,

 

You stated, "No Federal Agency considers optimally fluoridated water a drug.""

 

That is correct.  And nothing in your comment has disproven that.  The Netherlands is not a Federal Agency.   Nor is any foreign country a U.S. Federal Agency.

 

Toothpaste is not optimally fluoridated water.  Pure fluoride is not optimally fluoridated water . . . just as pure oxygen, an FDA approved drug, is not optimally oxyginated air.  Air is not a "drug" simply because 20.95% of it is an FDA approved theraputic drug.

 

Oh, by the way, as you people love to point out, endorsements don't prove a thing.  

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Re: Fluoride is a drug when consumed for medical or dental purpose per FDA

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Message 55 of 861

Slow down David,

 

EPA legal office says FDA is responsible.

 

Remember, I posted previously a quotation from the EPA's attorney, Steven M. Neugeboren, Associate General Counsel, Water Law Office, February 14, 2013, 

 

I can email you the entire letter if you give me your email address.  Too long to write it out here for you.   But let me quote more,

 

"EPA does not have responsibility for substances added to water solely for prevetative health care purposes, such as fluoride, other than to limit the addition of such substances to protect public health. . .  The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) acting through the FDA, remains responsible fo rregulating the addition of drugs to water supplies for health care purposes."

 

 

Go to the FDA website and learn the definition of a drug.  

 

In my last post I told you how Congress defines a drug.   One way is "INTENT" of use.  FDA considers a placebo a drug.  Makes no difference if it works or if it does not work, the INTENT is key to a drug.   

 

Even if the manufacturer does not make a health claim, if the public at large considers or it is well known to the public that a substance may cure, treat or prevent disease, then the FDA defines that substance as a drug.    

 

Read the FDA documents.  

 

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

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Re: Fluoride is a drug when consumed for medical or dental purpose per FDA

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Message 56 of 861

David,

 

You stated, "No Federal Agency considers optimally fluoridated water a drug."

 

CONSIDER:

 

1.  Netherlands determined Fluoride added to water is a drug.

“. . . at present the addition of chemicals to drinking water is prohibited by law in the Netherlands. This law came into effect because it was widely perceived that drinking water should not be used as a vehicle for pharmaceuticals. Furthermore, fluoridation of drinking water would conflict with the freedom to choose for natural drinking water. This principle of freedom of choice is considered as an important basic principle in the Netherlands.”  (but not for David)

SOURCE: 2007 – RIVM report 270091004/2007 for the Dutch Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sports

 

2.  Supreme Court of Canada ruled fluoride a drug (regardless of dilution.)  

 

3.  US FDA has testified to Congress that fluoride is a drug.  Congressional Investigation 2001

 

4.  Read your FDA approved toothpaste label and www.FDA.gov on drugs.  FDA requires the warning "DO NOT SWALLOW."

 

5.  “21 U.S.C. 321 CHAPTER II—DEFINITIONS   (g)(1) The term "drug" means (A) articles recognized in the official United States Pharmacopoeia, official Homoeopathic Pharmacopoeia of the United States, or official National Formulary, or any supplement to any of them;”  

 

Note:  there is no law which exempts FDA regulation of a drug because the drug is diluted in public water.  If so, drug dealers could dilute meth or any other drug in public water and bottle it exempt from FDA oversight.  Nothing about dilution is part of the drug laws.  Fluoride is listed in the US Pharmacopoeia, Homoeopathic Pharmacopoeia.

 

“. . .there is no substantial evidence of drug effectiveness as prescribed, recommended or suggested in its labeling. . . marketing is in violation of the new drug provisions of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act; they have, therefore, requested that marketing of these products be discontinued.”         FDA Letter to 35 Companies           DRUG THERAPY 1975

 

Congress defined drugs:  Articles INTENDED for use in the . . . prevention of disease. . .  " 21 USC 321 (g)(1)(B)

 

 

Austria REJECTED: "toxic fluorides" NOT added

Belgium REJECTED: encourages self-determination – those who want fluoride should get it themselves.

Finland STOPPED: "...do not favor or recommend fluoridation of drinking water. There are better ways of providing the fluoride our teeth need." A recent study found ..."no indication of an increasing trend of       caries....“

Germany STOPPED: A recent study found no evidence of an increasing trend of caries

Denmark REJECTED: "...toxic fluorides have never been added to the public water supplies in Denmark.“

Norway REJECTED: "...drinking water should not be fluoridated“

Sweden BANNED: "not allowed". No safety data available!

Netherlands REJECTED: Inevitably, whenever there is a court decision against fluoridation, the dental lobby pushes to have the judgment overturned on a technicality or they try to get the laws changed to legalize it. Their tactics didn't work in the vast majority of Europe.

Hungary STOPPED: for technical reasons in the '60s. However, despite technological advances, Hungary remains unfluoridated.

Japan REJECTED: "...may cause health problems...." The 0.8 -1.5 mg regulated level is for calcium-fluoride, not the hazardous waste by-product which is added with artificial fluoridation.

Israel SUSPENDED mandatory fluoridation until the issue is reexamined from all aspects.: June 21, 2006 “The labor, welfare and health Knesset committee”

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

 

 

 

 

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Re: Fluoride is a drug when consumed for medical or dental purpose per FDA

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Message 57 of 861

By the way, "Carry Anne," this comment from you is also wrong:

 

"Since the FDA has no jurisdiction over water additives, they stay out of the mess the EPA created with its politically motivated MCL/MCLG and attempt to shield themselves from liability by contracting with NSF. "

 

It was the EPA which outsourced some of its workload to NSF.  The FDA has nothing to do with community water distribution systems or anything that is added to its water.  Again - EPA.  FDA has nothing to do with NSF - Period.  That would be the EPA. 

http://www.nsf.org/newsroom/nsf-international-sustainability-standards-included-in-epa-recommendatio...

 

It must be a confusing world for you with all of these factual inaccuracies with which you try to impress the reader.

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 58 of 861

Get some rest and let your false claims stand? In your dreams.

The Ketchikan hatchery is knowledgable about fluoride and salmon. And I've visited Sacramento many times and I stand by my posts on the problem.

Also Einstein was indeed wrong about time dilation. You always say you need links to prove a point. So check the links below to the articles published in Physics Essays and in Optick. If you don't believe the published studies then take it up with those two journals.

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324511962_Characteristics_of_Light_Velocity_Massless_Energy...

 

and http://physicsessays.org/browse-journal-2/product/147-12-richard-d-sauerheber-on-the-nature-of-light...

 

 

 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 59 of 861

Richard, your comment is so garbled and so ridiculous that it doesn't merit a response.  Get some rest.

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Re: Fluoride is a drug when consumed for medical or dental purpose per FDA

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Message 60 of 861

"Carry Anne," I asked you to provide one example of any Federal Agency which considers optimally fluoridated water - what we are talking about here - a "drug," or a "medicine." 

 

You provided none.  

 

No Federal Agency considers optimally fluoridated water a drug.  

 

What you did was to provide evidence that people consider Fluoride itself is a drug.  So what.  Here is evidence that Oxygen is a drug:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2688103/    or this, http://epmonthly.com/article/oxygen-is-a-drug-act-accordingly/  But no sane person considers optimally oxygenated air a drug.  

 

Again, please provide any example of any federal agency which calls optimally fluoridated water a drug or a medicine.  Again, the only people who do that are people like you who are attempting to generate paranoia.

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