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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

Message 1 of 1,034

It is amazing how some people still insist that there is some 'benefit' from artificial water fluoridation, when there is absolutely zero valid science to support such ridiculous assertion. Not only is there no benefit, regardless of what some authoritative bodies may claim, fluorides are category 6 toxins by law. It is abviously not a large leap to think that people, who continue to sponsor this "dilution is solution to pollution" policy, have some alterior motives that have nothing to do with health whatsoever. 

 

In comparison to the fluoridated US, where life expectancy continues dropping and cancer rates soar, the Hunza live up to 120 years on average, with no modern medical or chemical interventions. What is wrong with this picture? https://www.shughal.com/health-secrets-hunza-people-live-100-years-cancer-free/

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 2 of 1,034

Richard, bones are not static. They are continuously reforming and the chemical species in bones, Ca, phosphate, fluoride) are continually being leached out and replaced.

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 3 of 1,034

Richard:

1: whether or not fluoridation causes leaching of Pb from pipes is easily shown by comparing the Pb levels in drinking water from fluoridated and unfluoridated systems. The ones I have looked at show no difference - but please provide analytical data if you have any.

 

2: Yes, I am aware that treatment with high concentration fluoride produces CaF2 reserves in the oral cavity - these can then contribute to low concentrations of fluoride in saliva over time and inhibit acid attack on enamel as well as repair it.

It is the low saliva F cocnetration from fluodiated water and food and from leachign these CaF2 reserves that produce the changes in the surface layers of teeth which are benficial in preventing acid attack.

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 4 of 1,034

Absurd. Fluoride is not a mineral nutrient. Physiologic mineral nutrients,exert actions that are saturable,and fully reversible with dilution. Fluoride incorporation into bone is not saturable (stage 3 fluorisis has over 12,000 mg/kg in bone) and the incorooration is not reversible biochemically as for actual nutrients The estimated,half life for fluiride in bone is over 20 years, after removal from fluoridated,water exposure (N4C 2006)

This is,all old news. You can find it in the FDA fluoridation ban petition. 

The FDA after 11 years finally concluded that fluoride which has never been FDA ,approved for ingestion  is, a toxic substance andcshoyld be regulated under the toxic, suubstances control act by the EPA. Sadly the EPA,refuses and expects the FDA to regulate it because it is intentionally added by request of CDC dentists.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 5 of 1,034

Whether there are fluoride precipitates in pipes or not, fluoridation chemicals leach lead salts ftom plumbing.

And xray analyses of teeth treated,even with high concentrations of fluoride such as in dental gels does not incorporate fluoride into enamel (which is mostly is inorganic in teeth with a small amount of amelogenin very much different than the biomatrix in bone). The fluoride then combines with calcium to form globules on teeth detected under scanning EM. These readily dissolve in,slight acidity such as when meal eating and the globules are swallowed and end up in bone anyway.

 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Message 6 of 1,034

Whether there are fluoride precipitates in pipes or not, fluoridation chemicals leach lead salts ftom plumbing.

 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Message 7 of 1,034

Richard, bioapatites like bones and teeth are not hydroxyapatites - and just as well. In the real world, there are isomorphous substitutions of various cations and anions and F in the structure strengthens and lowers the solubuility of the apatite. So F incorporation inot bioapatites is perfectly natural. (And, incidentally, the use of hydroxyapatite as models for tooth enamel is very misleading)

Yes, there are problenms when the incorporation is excessive - but like all nutrients, we understand there are upper and lower levels to dietary itnakes.

The incorporation of F into the surfacer layers of tooth apatite does confer protective properties and that incorporation with existing teeth is proven to occur only at the surface layers in practice.

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 8 of 1,034

skanen144 Pyromorphite is usually the Cl compound Pb5(PO4)3Cl. Yes, isomorphous substitution occurs but what surprises me is that there are no analytical data given in this section for F. See table C27, page C106. This makes me suspect the pyromorphite identified by XRD is not the fluoride analogue but more likey a Cl, phosphate, OH analogue.

The description of pyromorphite as the fluoride analogue in Table C26 appears to be a mistake. If the authors seriously suggested it was a fluoride analogue they would have provided analytical data for F, not Cl. I also note that the report describes fluoropyromorphite as "rare" and the Chloro and Hydroxy analogues as "common."

So, yes my comment was based on the analytical data. And I am aware that by itself and without fine structure XRD would not differentiate between different analogues.

So I do not think your original comment "Lead scales formed on lead service lines were mainly compounds of fluoride" is warranted.

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Message 9 of 1,034

Exxchange reactions of fluoride replacing hydroxide in bone hydroxyapatite (and in lead salts on oxidized plumbing) are not surprising. What is shocking is that the same fluoridationists who argue that these reactions do not take place neverthtless also argue that fluoride does incorporate into teeth enamel  hydroxyapatite. Enamel is far too hard a form of the calcium phospahte material than bone and fluoride does not incorporate into the enamel matrix like it does in bone.

How much more backward can a human being be on this?

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Message 10 of 1,034

Thanks susan. It is not sirprising that fluoride cohld fo this with lead dalts that are akeays predent on old plumbing woth oxidized lead. Ion exchange of a hydroxide with flioride to form these precipitates remimds one of the fact that fluoride in blood,at only 0.15 ppm partixipates in an ion exchange process with hydtoxide in hydroxyaoatite, converting bone into abnormal fluoroapatite. Fluoride does this at concentrations far belpw the solubility product concentratipn required to precipitate calcium fluoride.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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