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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 411 of 1,331

"CarrieAnne" says, "I'm losing count of how many times DavidF copies and pastes the same character attack in this thread on Dr. Hardy Limeback"

Response:  It's not a character attack if it's true.  If there is anything I have said about anti-water-fluoride leader Dr. Limeback that is incorrect or untrue, please point it out to me and I will be happy to apologize and retract it.

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 412 of 1,331

The egregious dishonesty and deception I see is from those who demand water be tainted with industrial fluoride, a toxic calcium chelater in a program that is the bone fluoridation of masses of people without consent.

And here we have one such person, complaining about "deception" from innocent people who merely want clean water not intentionally infused with an EPA contaminant.

Totally nuts.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 413 of 1,331

“Compared to dentists, a growing and well-informed public is far more educated about the scientific facts of fluoride and fluoridation. These knowledgeable folks are the same ones the ADA instructs its dentists to denigrate.” - James Maxey, DDS

 

I'm losing count of how many times DavidF copies and pastes the same character attack in this thread on Dr. Hardy Limeback BSc, DDS, PhD, recently retired head of Preventative Dentistry at the University of Toronto. This is consistent with the tactics of fluoridationists and social media trolls who use  denigration as an emotional ploy in order to sow discord and disrupt conversations

 

I suggest Dr. Limeback can speak for himself. See his December 2018 interview wih an FBI analyst about his experience:  https://www.gallico.co/episode-1-hardy-limeback

 

Then there is the position of the IAOMT whose 2017 heavily cited paper can be downloaded from its website. The IAOMT membership is among the thousands of dentists, doctors and scientists opposed to fluoridation based on scientific evidence of harm. Like Dr. Limeback, the IAOMT demonstrates discipline, integrity and courage:  https://iaomt.org/resources/fluoride-facts

 

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 414 of 1,331

"CarryAnne" says:   "This AARP forum . . . is about the harm caused to senior citizens due to chronic exposure . . . It is also about the hubris of self-proclaimed experts who deny the evidence of harm and disregard the ethics . . "

Response:  It is also about the dishonesty and deception of anti-water-fluoridation folks.  For example, i
n another thread on this AARP website I asked your own anti-fluoride spokesman, Dr. Hardy Limeback: 

 

“This is a link to an article which can be found on the Fluoride Action Network webpage, written by Michael Connett which features a photograph taken by you.  http://fluoridealert.org/studies/dental_fluorosis04b/

“Beneath the second photograph it says, ““Mild” Fluorosis — Photograph by Hardy Limeback, DDS, PhD”

 

“Will you publicly go on the record now and state that your diagnosis of these teeth is that they have Mild Dental Fluorosis, as the article says they do?”  End quote.

 

Now this is important because Mild Dental Fluorosis can be associated with water fluoridation.  The second photograph on that link, by Dr. Limeback, shows discolored, brown or orange, teeth which is not characteristic of Mild fluorosis. 

 

Mild fluorosis is characterized by barely noticeable white spots; so unnoticeable that teeth are dried and put under special lighting for the condition to be photographed.  And these teeth are healthier and more resistant to decay.  Mild fluorosis does not diminish quality of life.   

 

So the implication from Dr. Limeback’s photo is:  This is what happens from drinking optimally fluoridated water. 

 

Dr. Limeback’s first response was that he didn’t use the widely accepted Dean’s Index Scale but instead used his own “VAS.”

 

He also said, “There is a history behind that case to which you refer on the Fluorideaction.net website. That young man had fluoride supplements because he grew up in a non-fluoridated area. He may have used toothpaste as a toddler and swallowed some but he had no recollection of that. That's all the fluoride exposure he had.  . . .  BTW, no one as yet has determined what the orange colour represents. My expert opinion is that it is extra iron incorporation into the enamel (Canadian beavers and many rodents have iron in their teeth and the teeth have orange 'stains'- that has nothing to do with fluoride). I hope that answers your concerns. Dr. Hardy Limeback”  https://community.aarp.org/t5/Brain-Health/Support-for-AARP-to-take-action-on-Fluoridation/m-p/20407...

In other words, these brown-orange teeth had never touched optimally fluoridated water.  Dr. Limeback believed the orange stains - the most distinguishing features of those teeth - were Iron, and had nothing to do with fluoride exposure.   And this photo was being used to represent a case of Mild Dental Fluorosis. 

 

When I see this kind of deception, which is WAY past not being science, it tells me immediately that these are the folks who aren’t telling the truth because of some agenda they are pushing.

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 415 of 1,331

 “As a summary of our research, we are now convinced that fluoridation of the water supplies causes a low grade intoxication of the whole population, with only the approximately 5% most sensitive persons showing acute symptoms. The whole population being subjected to low grade poisoning means that their immune systems are constantly overtaxed. With all the other poisonous influences in our environment, this can hasten health calamities.”  - Dr. Hans Moolenburgh, MD (1993)

 

This AARP forum is not about the diagnoses of fluorosis in children's teeth. It is about the harm caused to senior citizens due to chronic exposure of decades duration which includes damage to immune systems, thyroids, kidneys, guts, bones and brains. It is also about the hubris of self-proclaimed experts who deny the evidence of harm and disregard the ethics relevant to individual medical consent, the human right to bodily integrity and the failure of AARP to advocate for its constituency.

 

See image and videos for why only about 2% of Europe fluoridates and that's mostly in the Republic of Ireland where citizens are protesting in the streets against the national mandate. Fluoridated salt is a choice in a handful of European countries that perhaps reaches another 10% of the population, although most of that salt is actually used in institutional settings, i.e. military and prisons. 

 

2018 Interview with Eli Dahi, PhD: 

https://youtu.be/fwukipamdxQ 

2014 Interview with Hans Moolenburgh, MD: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw3xbtS4vpM 

 Dutch.jpgDutch Deliberations

 

 

 

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 416 of 1,331

Bill O, 

 

This comment is addressed to you.  It begins with your name.  You may chime in on this:

 

Allow me to illustrate the type of deceptive behavior that anti-fluoridation folks employ.  In another thread on this AARP website I asked your own Dr. Hardy Limeback: 

 

“This is a link to an article which can be found on the Fluoride Action Network webpage, written by Michael Connett which features a photograph taken by you.  http://fluoridealert.org/studies/dental_fluorosis04b/

“Beneath the second photograph it says, ““Mild” Fluorosis — Photograph by Hardy Limeback, DDS, PhD”

 

“Will you publicly go on the record now and state that your diagnosis of these teeth is that they have Mild Dental Fluorosis, as the article says they do?”  End quote.

 

Now this is important because Mild Dental Fluorosis can be associated with water fluoridation.  The second photograph on that link, by Dr. Limeback, shows discolored, brown or orange, teeth which is not characteristic of Mild fluorosis. 

 

Mild fluorosis is characterized by barely noticeable white spots; so unnoticeable that teeth are dried and put under special lighting for the condition to be photographed.  And these teeth are healthier and more resistant to decay.  Mild fluorosis does not diminish quality of life.   

 

So the implication from Dr. Limeback’s photo is:  This is what happens from drinking optimally fluoridated water. 

 

Dr. Limeback’s first response was that he didn’t use the widely accepted Dean’s Index Scale but instead used his own “VAS.”

 

He also said, “There is a history behind that case to which you refer on the Fluorideaction.net website. That young man had fluoride supplements because he grew up in a non-fluoridated area. He may have used toothpaste as a toddler and swallowed some but he had no recollection of that. That's all the fluoride exposure he had.  . . .  BTW, no one as yet has determined what the orange colour represents. My expert opinion is that it is extra iron incorporation into the enamel (Canadian beavers and many rodents have iron in their teeth and the teeth have orange 'stains'- that has nothing to do with fluoride). I hope that answers your concerns. Dr. Hardy Limeback”  https://community.aarp.org/t5/Brain-Health/Support-for-AARP-to-take-action-on-Fluoridation/m-p/20407...

In other words, these brown-orange teeth had never touched optimally fluoridated water.  Dr. Limeback believed the orange stains - the most distinguishing features of those teeth - were Iron, and had nothing to do with fluoride exposure.   And this photo was being used to represent a case of Mild Dental Fluorosis. 

 

When I see this kind of deception, which is WAY past not being science, it tells me immediately that these are the folks who aren’t telling the truth because of some agenda they are pushing.

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 417 of 1,331

The sarcasm is mistaken. The two articles describing experiments disproving time dilation were published in physics essays and in optics. The idea has been disproven theoretically, mathematically and,experimentally. This ,was brought up to remind readers that even regarded  experts make mistakes. 

But continuing with a mistake, such as fluoridation, in the,face of facts proving so, is harmful bias.

Einstein was a scientist who today would correct the idea.  Unfortunately CDC fluoridationists teject facts and refuse to correct their problem. 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 418 of 1,331

The careful controlled stidies by Spittle and those by Burgstahler and others. My own work on racehorse breakdowns . And the NRC report describing that 1 ppm F water causes elevated TSH in iodine deficient consumers and elevates both PTH and calcitonin at the same time pathologically, the only known substance tlthat does this bizarre IIIaction, and consumers who have bone pain at F levels in bone of only 1700 mg/kg.

What other effects would you like to discuss?.

 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 419 of 1,331

Iiada picture.jpgIida

David,  

 

You said,

"CONCLUSION:

This study's findings suggest that molars with fluorosis are more resistant to caries than are molars without fluorosis."  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19571049

 

No doubt you won't accept this study, you will have some problem with it, because it contradicts your pre-established bias."

 

Iida's data does show an increase in dental fluorosis with increased water fluoride concentration.  However, when the data is graphed (see above), the claim of benefit you make is hard to detect.

 

Your claim of benefit lacks serious consideration, based on this study.

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH 

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 420 of 1,331

David,

 

For some time I've tried to understand what you are saying, but I'm at a loss.  I can't figure out what Time Dilation has to do with excess fluoride exposure.   Makes no sense.

 

You ask a good question about peer-reviewed studies and "optimally fluoridated water."  

 

Several problems.  

 

1.   What concentration of fluoride in water is marketed "optimal"?   A moving target, wouldn't you agree?  0.7-1.4 ppm, 0.7 ppm, ???? 

 

2.  Fluoride added to water is just one source of fluoride.  No research would only considering one source of fluoride.  If they did, the peer-reviewers would throw it out.  

 

So both your research question makes no sense.   If your question refered to total fluoride exposure, then we could start to discuss. 

 

3.  Who's responsibility is it to provide the research on any product?   The patient/consumer?  The government? Or the manufacturer marketing the product?

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

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