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Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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The FDA requires specific FDA labeling of various aspects of food, such as various mineral contents, calories. etc. But FDA labelimg of fluoride in water is prohibited because fluoride does not belong in  water and  It is not a nutrient mineral. Private companies that make their own  labels for F content in bottled water are on their own. 

 The FDA does not arrest them. But the FDA makes it clear it is not an FDA label for F on water bottles. FDA labels for F are on toothpaste boxes stating do not swallow  or use in children under 6. But FDA labeling for F on water  is prohibited by the FDA. It ruled its addition into water is an uncontrolled use of an unapproved drug but does not demand it be removed  and does not approve of its addition. F is allowed in foods  But the FDA ruled that F is considered unsafe to (intentionally) add to foods.in 1975.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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 You are saying that the FDA calls artificially fluoridated water "an uncontrolled use of anunapproved drug."  End quote.

 

Show me anything on any FDA website, anything official from the FDA, in which this government agency has identified optimally fluoridated water a "drug."

 

You say, "There appear to be two different world views, those who appreciate natural foods and pristine water, and those who advocate artificially adulterating water with synthetic fluorides and foods made with such water."

 

Response:  Corn is a genetically modified food.  If the original food had not been "adulterated" by man, you would still be eating grass.  If water wasn't "adulterated" by man, millions of people would be dying from typhys, cholera, and other water-borne diseases.  And if nature wasn't "adulterated" by man, you would be walking to Alaska instead riding on a nice train.

 

There are two schools of thought.  There are people who haven't thought it through, because they would still be living in caves instead of houses if they had never "adulterated" nature, and people who are intelligent enough to realize that we were given a brain so that we could use it and make our world better.

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Dr. Bill, you say, "proponents have failed to provide one prospective double blind study on efficacy and the FDA is not convinced."

 

Response:  The FDA has nothing to do with Community Water Fluoridation (CWF), and you know that.  A double blind study for CWF would be nearly impossible to carry out . . and you know that too.  

 

And the FDA is convinced.  According to the FDA, "Drinking fluoridated water may reduce the risk of [dental caries or tooth decay]." . . . and that is all "proponents" of optimally fluoridated water have ever claimed.  https://www.fda.gov/food/labelingnutrition/ucm073602.htm

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Millions  of people are being harmed from fluoridated water. Consumers all  accumulate F in bone,, causing formation of poor quality bone to varying degree.

Three court cases ruled that fluoridated water consumption can cause cancer in people. Who am I to overturn these rulings?

The study claiming reduced decay in fluorotic molars is not a valid conclusion I would make based on the data. The confidence intervals overlap substantially between fluoridated and nonfluoridated. Moreover as I have said the studies like this on people who cannot be put in cages are not well controlled, as for animals in cages  

 The animal data are conclusive and agree with the largest human data we have on populations showing fluoride water is useless in decreasing dental decay.

Sorry. 

 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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You know, and now that I think of it, the FDA doesn't list any mineral content on bottled water.  Why would they?  (And I didn't mean to say 'why wouldn't they.'  You won't see me pulling a trump 🙂 )   In that light, your comment is not only unbelieveable, it's nonsensical.

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Since 1 in 5 American teens have moderate to severe dental fluorosis on at least two brittle teeth and dental fluorosis is the visible evidence of cell death due to fluoride exposure, senior citizens should be paying attention because their bones are also more brittle due to a lifetime of fluoride exposure.

 

I know, it happened to me and I’m a chemist formerly with the Army Corps of Engineers recognized whistleblower to lead in drinking water. I have moderate to severe dental fluorosis from childhood as the daughter of a military dentist. This has been a lifelong embarrassment. I had veneers finally at 40. Now at 65, I have many health concerns including problems with thyroid, parathyroid, kidney stones and joint failure. (Hip bone ashed measured 1500 ppm F) with slow improvements avoiding F now for 5 years. There is no miracle cure for F accumulation and only the subtle progressively increasingly serious damage as a risk. The lack of medical recognition of the disease processes from chronic F poisoning makes it difficult to get help.

 

To medical professionals who say no damage even from a lifetime of F exposure: where you don’t honestly look, you will not find. Cite all the skewed studies you want, your willful blindness boaders on negligence. Everyone should diligently ask how could consuming a known accumulative poison possible be good for you or even your pets?

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As  said, the FDA does not permit itself to label fluoride levels in water, or to require that fluoride be labeled on bottled water by anyone. If you have a problem with that or with companies that label the fluoride level in their bottled water, then take it up with the FDA

 Dr. Groth first instituted this FDA policy, not me. If it were me, I would require fluoride level labeling if the water is  either natural at 1 ppm or above  or if any fluoride was added artificially from an industrial source. But that is me. 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Mild fluorosis due to fluoride Ingestion and moderate or severe fluorosis are abnormalities, with deficient enamel on teeth

Flluorosis of varying degree increases in incidence in all Fluoridated cities. There are no exceptions

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
Bronze Conversationalist

Fluorosis ends with the suffix osis because it is pathologic. It is only caused by fluoride Ingestion during childhood. Fluoridated water is one of, and usually the most significant, source of ingested fluoride that causes fluorosis. The systemic fluoride contaminant inhibits protein removal during teeth mineralization. It does so as an enzyme inhibitor. 

Notice however  that proving water fluoride, rather than some other fluoride source, is the cause would be disputed in court and, just as with mild bone fluorosis,  this interferes with lawsuits. 

I also  do this because evil flourishes when good people ignore the problem. U. S. kids are being fluoride poisoned, with fluorosis being the first visible sign. In adulthood the fluoride accumulation continues into bone, causing formation of permanent bone of poor quality, to varying degtees depending on total exposure. 

 

 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
Bronze Conversationalist

Dr. Sauerheber,

 

I take it from your responses that you are not able to cite one documented case of any human being who was harmed in any way because they drank optimally fluoridated water . . even for as much as a lifetime . . .

 

. . . that you are unable to explain your contradictory statements that on one hand the FDA “forbids” bottled water distributors from providing fluoride levels in water . . yet on the other hand they don’t ban it . .

 

. . . and that you are still unwilling to admit that mild dental fluorosis, which is associated with community water fluoridation, makes teeth stronger and more resistant to decay, thus improving quality of life.

 

CONCLUSION:

This study's findings suggest that molars with fluorosis are more resistant to caries than are molars without fluorosis.”  www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19571049

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Excuse me, but the best way to not poison anyone with exogenous industrial fluoride is to not add it into their water supply. For those who insist on doing so, in the U.S. (I don't know where you work) large cities with vast volumes of water to 'fluoridate' use sophisticated electronic equipment that monitors the precise fluoride levels continuously in real time, to both prevent overfeeds and if one were to occur since it is still not fullproof, the sensors are designed to signal that an overfeed has occurred so that the public can be alerted to not drink the water until further notice.  The facility at Lake Skinner, CA for all of North San Diego County to fluoridate its masive volumes of water, this facility  cost vast amounts of money. The facility is surrounded with barbed wire fencing so terrorists don't access the flujosis acid tanks, it is constantly under both electornic surveillance and also is guarded with guards in real time, etc. A few hundred dollars might work in Hooper Bay, but not for cities with vast millions of people whose blood is to be fluoridated.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Yes the FDA has problems with how it acts on fluoride. First of all, there are many divergent opinions within the agency.  But Groth was given charge of fluoride labeling on bottled water many decades ago. The fact that the FDA will not label F levels on water or require it to be labeled and that Groth opposed the FDA requiring the F level be labeled, if a botter does so the FDA doesn't go out of its way and ban the bottler for doing so. I don't know another way to say it, there were people in the Agency who wanted to require labeling but Groth forbid that. How else can I explain this to you?

 

Erin Brockovich is now advocating for the halt of all water fluoridation in the United States. Her organization has no better path to win a lawsuit for chronic poisoning as anyone else has. When half the country feels that it is acceptable to have fluoride forced into peoples' blood, how does one convince a judge otherwise?  With lead in Flint, most people recognize that lead is a chronic poison so measuring blood levels was sufficient to accuse the water district of being the source and the suit could be proven beyond reasonable doubt. However, measuring fluoride in blood which could prove the water district was at fault for infusing it, you and most people and judges would laugh all day long, and say so what? Don't you want it there? The Brockovich group knows what suits have a chance and what won't and is instead pursuing the government to remove fluoride from being presumed to be a nutriltional requirement. That itself in some circles is also dififlcut to achieve since so many are duped into thinking that dental caries reduction is sufficient to declare fluoride is a nutritional requirement, which is absurd. Fluoride has no physiologic role or reason for being in human/mammalian blood. Between those who think F belongs beionjg added into blood, and those who don't, I know who the sane people are.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
Bronze Conversationalist

Richard, your quote:  “When half the country feels that it is acceptable to have fluoride forced into peoples' blood, how does one convince a judge otherwise?”

 

Response:  First you find victims of this alleged poisoning.  Then you do it with facts and evidence.  Evidently you have neither . . that’s why there have been no successful lawsuits for health reasons because someone drinks optimally fluoridated water and was harmed. 

 

Any objective reader of this thread will see that you have been caught in lie after lie after lie.  This isn’t rocket science.  When Pacific Gas and Electric was sued because hexavalent chromium 6 was in drinking water, it was provable.  Fluoride poisoning from drinking optimally fluoridated water is not only not provable, it’s a fantasy.  That is why there has never been one successful lawsuit for health reasons because people drink optimally fluoridated water.  It has nothing to do with all your garbled spin.  Simply put, successful lawsuits don't happen because there is no harm from drinking it. Period.

 

Bronze Conversationalist

The study from Poland brings up a key point. The original corrlatiion by Dean that fluoride in water caused decreased dental decay was misinterpreted, as proven by the Ziegelbecker more thorough analylsis. But in addition, in any small sample that may have had fewer caries in children compared to children on similar diets in another sample, one needs to control for the fact that kids with dental fluorosis are embarrassed by the discoloration. It was called Colorado brwwn stain. And hence those kids were most likely brushing their teeth more often and longer, thinking that it was their own poor care of their teeth that caused the stains. This would need to be factored into any study deternining whether fliuoride ingestion had anything to do with caries reduction. In short, published studies in small samples claiming benefit are not worth much in spite of how nuerous they are. Animals studied in cages are the most reliable and proved beyond doubt that ingesting fluoride has zero effect on reducing spontaneous dental decay in mammals..

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Nice try to avoid any significance of the Hooper Bay incident and its ongoing lawsuit. Of course it is relevant. We are taxed to pay for vast millions of dollars for equipment to help prevent a similar overfeed from acutely poisoning anyone thorughout the rest of the coutnry. And overfeeds do still occur with some regujarity anyway. It's entropy driven, and the tendency for concentrated chemicals to disperse, and most easily for those that are corrosive as are fluorides.

Moreover, chlorination doe not treat pepole. Chlorine is added to sterilize water that otherwise could contain dangerous microbes. If chlorination overfeeds were able to kill people by drinking their kitchen sink water, then we could do away with it and boil our own water if we had to. But fluoridation does not clean the water. It is exclusively added under the disproven belief that eating and drinking  fluoride somehow through an unknown mechanism decreases dental decay even though in saliva it is at 94,000 times less concentrated than in toothpaste. And even though the level in blood lifelong cauases bone fluoridation to several thousand ppm, higher than in toothpaste which is a bone abnormality that eventually produces pain similar to arthritis. All who consume it accumulate bone fluoride. There are no exceptions.  Sorry.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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