From ‘liquid biopsies’ to precision medicine, these five developments will change cancer care in the next decade. Learn more.

Reply
Frequent Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
683
Views

Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

683 Views
Message 1171 of 1,448

Dr. Richard,  Round & Round we go . . where it ends nobody knows.  This is what you just said: 

 

“I did not say that no one can label the fluoride content in bottled water. I said the FDA ruled to prohibit labeling (but the FDA) fluoride levels in bottled water. “  (It’s a bit garbled, but I think I know what you are saying.)

 

And this is what you actually said: 

 

“07-12-2018 03:46 PM

Furthermore, fluoride levels in water are forbiddenfrom  being listed on bottled water because that would give the false impression to the public that fluoride actually belongs in water. “  End quote.

 

So . . if it’s forbidden . . it’s forbidden by everyone.  Forbidden means forbidden.  Where in that comment do you say this only applies to the FDA?   Or is that even what you meant?  Who knows . .

 

Bill Osmunson’s comment is more interesting. 

 

“Giving people the freedom to choose more fluoride, is a fundamental human right. 

 

If we were dealing with a highly contagious lethal disease, then I am not opposed to my public health profession using police powers.  Dental caries are not highly contagious or lethal. 

 

Give people freedom to choose how much fluoride they ingest.”  End quote.

 

Bill, since we know that water containing 0.7 ppm F is harmless to people who drink it (because nobody can seem to provide even one documented case of harm because someone drank optimally fluoridated water – even for as much as a lifetime.)  And we know that water containing fluoride is helpful against dental carries (hell, we’ve known this since Colorado in the early 20th century), then you are literally arguing for the freedom to choose poorer oral health.  --  That is not rational.

 

Let me repeat.  You want the freedom to choose poorer oral health.

 

Moreover, you want to impose your irrational mindset upon entire communities, people who could truly benefit from this health initiative.  And you want to do it to help your millionaire buddy, Mercola, sell his stuff.  (You know, like when you copy/pasted “Kyle’s Story” which was really an advertisement for Mercola shower head filters.)  That’s not cool, man. 

Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
683
Views
Frequent Social Butterfly
2
Kudos
695
Views

Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

695 Views
Message 1172 of 1,448

Laws are complex and not everyone agrees on the intent of each law.

 

The best I've been able to do is read the FDA and EPA positions and their intent, contact them and try to understand.   Complex.  I think pulling firm conclusions out of either or both Agencies is problematic, until the courts rule. 

 

Much we don't know and certainly some are being harmed with excess fluoride exposure.

 

Giving people the freedom to choose more fluoride, is a fundamental human right. 

 

If we were dealing with a highly contagious lethal disease, then I am not opposed to my public health profession using police powers.  Dental caries are not highly contagious or lethal. 

 

Give people freedom to choose how much fluoride they ingest.

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

Report Inappropriate Content
2
Kudos
695
Views
Regular Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
718
Views

Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

718 Views
Message 1173 of 1,448

I did not say that no one can label the fluoride content in bottled water. I said the FDA ruled to prohibit labeling (but the FDA) fluoride levels in bottled water. Pure pristine clean drinking water such as in the Pacific Northwest has no detectable F, like water is supposed to be. Again, the FDA ruled this to avoid people thinking that fluoride is a normal ingredient in fresh drinking water, when it most certainly is not.

Trump lying about what he said has nothing to do with statements   on fluoride. Most things Trump says are false

 I dont speak falsehoods. And I am with the majority of Americans who voted for  Hillary. So what? 

No one has proven that F has never caused or exacerbated cancer. 

 Quite the opposite. Read the data published by Dr. Yiamouyiannis.

Also it would serve you well to read the actual full text in the NRC Report 2006. There have been several cases of stage III skeletal fluorosis in the U. S. . It remains rare but stage I is not rare

 The ingestion of fluoridated water for about 20 years even  before the  existence of F toothpaste caused bone F levels of 2500 mg/kg, higher than in toothpaste where it does nor belong Newbrunn)  Many people experience bone discomfort at levels below 2500( NRC).

I don't know Mercola so you may be projecting to someone else. 

I published the racehorse fluoridation breakdown article and the journal of environmental and public health 439490 article

 I haul my drinking and cooking  water from a clean well because fluoridationists  violated the San Diego vote opposed to fluoridation and violated the SDWA and infuses industrial fluoride sources into the water I am forced to buy though it is so treated. Fresh municipal water is no longer available here (IN THE U. S) 

I do not use an RO fluoride water filter. Again, you are projecting. . 

 

 

 

 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
718
Views
Frequent Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
744
Views

Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

744 Views
Message 1174 of 1,448

You know, and now that I think of it, the FDA doesn't list any mineral content on bottled water.  Why would they?  (And I didn't mean to say 'why wouldn't they.'  You won't see me pulling a trump :-) )   In that light, your comment is not only unbelieveable, it's nonsensical.

Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
744
Views
Highlighted
Frequent Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
800
Views

Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

800 Views
Message 1175 of 1,448

Dr. Sauerheber, your quote:

 

“07-18-2018 03:19 PM

As  said, the FDA does not permit itself to label fluoride levels in water, or to require that fluoride be labeled on bottled water by anyone.”

 

Response:  No, that’s not what you said.  This is what you said, word for word:

 

 “07-12-2018 03:46 PM

Furthermore, fluoride levels in water are forbiddenfrom  being listed on bottled water because that would give the false impression to the public that fluoride actually belongs in water. “  End quote.

 

Are you going to pull a “Trump” on us and tell us that you forgot to include one word which would have changed the entire meaning from, ‘no one is allowed to list fluoride levels on bottled water,’ to, ‘only the FDA is not allowed to list fluoride levels on bottled water? 

 

It doesn’t seem to be working for Trump, and it’s certainly not working for you.  You might want to put out that fire on your pants.

 

Of course you don’t believe the Kumar study.  If you acknowledged that teeth with mild fluorosis are more resistant to decay, that wouldn’t help your buddy Mercola sell his water filters & fluoride free toothpaste, would it.

 

Your quote:  “Three court cases ruled that fluoridated water consumption can cause cancer in people.”

 

Response:  Look Out!  If I have to prove again that fluoride doesn’t cause cancer, Carrie Anne will get upset with me and call the issue that you just brought up a “red herring,” and blame it on me.  Hey, maybe we can blame it on Obama.

 

And of course Carrie Anne is scare-mongering again by bringing up the issue of Skeletal Fluorosis . . a condition so rare in the United States that roughly a dozen cases have been documented . . you know, the United States, where more people enjoy the health benefits of fluoridated water than any other place on the planet . . where skeletal fluorosis is virtually nonexistent.  You know . . that place.

 

Can’t wait for you to remind us that we’re all being drugged through our water lol

Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
800
Views
Conversationalist
3
Kudos
837
Views

Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

837 Views
Message 1176 of 1,448

Since 1 in 5 American teens have moderate to severe dental fluorosis on at least two brittle teeth and dental fluorosis is the visible evidence of cell death due to fluoride exposure, senior citizens should be paying attention because their bones are also more brittle due to a lifetime of fluoride exposure.

 

I know, it happened to me and I’m a chemist formerly with the Army Corps of Engineers recognized whistleblower to lead in drinking water. I have moderate to severe dental fluorosis from childhood as the daughter of a military dentist. This has been a lifelong embarrassment. I had veneers finally at 40. Now at 65, I have many health concerns including problems with thyroid, parathyroid, kidney stones and joint failure. (Hip bone ashed measured 1500 ppm F) with slow improvements avoiding F now for 5 years. There is no miracle cure for F accumulation and only the subtle progressively increasingly serious damage as a risk. The lack of medical recognition of the disease processes from chronic F poisoning makes it difficult to get help.

 

To medical professionals who say no damage even from a lifetime of F exposure: where you don’t honestly look, you will not find. Cite all the skewed studies you want, your willful blindness boaders on negligence. Everyone should diligently ask how could consuming a known accumulative poison possible be good for you or even your pets?

Report Inappropriate Content
3
Kudos
837
Views
Frequent Social Butterfly
3
Kudos
838
Views

Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

838 Views
Message 1177 of 1,448

“It is very unwise to assume that little or none of the extensive middle and old-age osteoarthritis that plagues so many people in the United States is not an undiagnosed manifestation of various stages of skeletal fluorosis.” - Dr. Albert W. Burgstahler, chemist in letter to NAS/IOM (1998)

 

Dental fluorosis (DF) is the visible evidence of a defect in the tooth. It is evidence of cell death in every case and due to fluoride consumption. Always. Period. These teeth are more brittle. It is caused by fluoride consumption in early childhood but is a lifelong condition that increases dental bills. As fluoridation has increased in the US, so has DF so that it now afflicts over half of US teens.  

 

Skeletal fluorosis (SF) is the invisible evidence of the same process which manifests as pain in the bones and increased brittleness. This is a cumulative process that in 'optimally' fluoridated communities afflicts adults in middle age and senior citizens. Because fluoridation is supported by US agencies and administered by US governmental authoritis, skeletal fluorosis is misdiagnosed as any number of other conditions. All foods prepared with fluoridated water are contaminated with fluoride - often at much higher concentrations than in tap water.

 

DFwQuotes.jpg

Report Inappropriate Content
3
Kudos
838
Views
Regular Social Butterfly
3
Kudos
836
Views

Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

836 Views
Message 1178 of 1,448

Millions  of people are being harmed from fluoridated water. Consumers all  accumulate F in bone,, causing formation of poor quality bone to varying degree.

Three court cases ruled that fluoridated water consumption can cause cancer in people. Who am I to overturn these rulings?

The study claiming reduced decay in fluorotic molars is not a valid conclusion I would make based on the data. The confidence intervals overlap substantially between fluoridated and nonfluoridated. Moreover as I have said the studies like this on people who cannot be put in cages are not well controlled, as for animals in cages  

 The animal data are conclusive and agree with the largest human data we have on populations showing fluoride water is useless in decreasing dental decay.

Sorry. 

 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
Report Inappropriate Content
3
Kudos
836
Views
Regular Social Butterfly
3
Kudos
839
Views

Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

839 Views
Message 1179 of 1,448

As  said, the FDA does not permit itself to label fluoride levels in water, or to require that fluoride be labeled on bottled water by anyone. If you have a problem with that or with companies that label the fluoride level in their bottled water, then take it up with the FDA

 Dr. Groth first instituted this FDA policy, not me. If it were me, I would require fluoride level labeling if the water is  either natural at 1 ppm or above  or if any fluoride was added artificially from an industrial source. But that is me. 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
Report Inappropriate Content
3
Kudos
839
Views
Frequent Social Butterfly
2
Kudos
852
Views

Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

852 Views
Message 1180 of 1,448

Dr. Sauerheber,

 

I take it from your responses that you are not able to cite one documented case of any human being who was harmed in any way because they drank optimally fluoridated water . . even for as much as a lifetime . . .

 

. . . that you are unable to explain your contradictory statements that on one hand the FDA “forbids” bottled water distributors from providing fluoride levels in water . . yet on the other hand they don’t ban it . .

 

. . . and that you are still unwilling to admit that mild dental fluorosis, which is associated with community water fluoridation, makes teeth stronger and more resistant to decay, thus improving quality of life.

 

CONCLUSION:

This study's findings suggest that molars with fluorosis are more resistant to caries than are molars without fluorosis.”  www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19571049

Report Inappropriate Content
2
Kudos
852
Views
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Users
Announcements

Open Enrollment: Oct 15-Dec 7, 2019 Find resources to help you decide on the best healthcare insurance plans for you during Open Enrollment season