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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 321 of 1,372

I am not "poor".  I am merely aware of the data from the text Fluoride the Aging Factor by biochemist John Yiamouyiannis. I do not dispute the data like fluoridationists do. It is valid and was used in several court cases to demonstrate that cities before fluoridation had diminishing cancer mortality at a much faster rate than after fluoridation began.. 

What else do you want me to say?  Denounce the data?

No thanks.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 322 of 1,372

Richard, your quote:  "All this to justify increased cancer mortality,"

 

Response:  While water fluoridation is increasing in this country,  https://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/statistics/FSGrowth.htm

cancer mortality is declining.  https://www.cancer.org/latest-news/facts-and-figures-2019.html

 

No doubt you will try to defend your comment, even in the face of reality.  Poor Richard.

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 323 of 1,372

CarryAnne you express concern about people who "who deny science and denigrate opponents in an attempt to bully professionals, politicians & politics into compliance" And then you post a long list of claims related to scientific studies which would be interesting to discuss and discuss in a respectful way.

 

I am prepared to offer you full right of reply in an ongoing exchange of scientific opinion on all the claims you make here (they are far too extensive to discuss rationally in this forum). This could be done by alternating articles on my blog Open Parachute.

 

Paul Connett and I carried out such a good faith scientific exchange 5 years ago and covered these sort of claims in detail. it was well received by readers and is available as a pdf to download - Connett & Perrott (2014) The Fluoride Debate - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/298124881_The_fluoride_debate

Would you agree to a similar exchange with me? I think this would overcome charges of science denial, denigration and bullying. And the formal scientific nature of the exchange will encourage it to be respectful.


Please let me know here if you are willing to participate in such a scientific exchange - and if so, some way of contacting you to make the arrangements.


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Frequent Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 324 of 1,372

CarryAnne you express concern about people who "who deny science and denigrate opponents in an attempt to bully professionals, politicians & politics into compliance" And then you post a long list of claims related to scientific studies which would be interesting to discuss and discuss in a respectful way.

 

I am prepared to offer you full right of reply in an ongoing exchange of scientific opinion on all the claims you make here (they are far too extensive to discuss rationally in this forum). This could be done by alternating articles on my blog Open Parachute.

 

Paul Connett and I carried out such a good faith scientific exchange 5 years ago and covered these sort of claims in detail. it was well received by readers and is available as a pdf to download - Connett & Perrott (2014) The Fluoride Debate - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/298124881_The_fluoride_debate

Would you agree to a similar exchange with me? I think this would overcome charges of science denial, denigration and bullying. And the formal scientific nature of the exchange will encourage it to be respectful.


Please let me know here if you are willing to participate in such a scientific exchange - and if so, some way of contacting you to make the arrangements.


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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 325 of 1,372

Really, Richard?  San Diego voted twice to end CWF?  I wonder if they were dishonestly influenced by people like you.  

 

You, for example, who have said in an email to me, " in 1988 EPA published in the Federal Register            that it terminated the  agreement  it  made  in  1979  (1979  MOU)  with  FDA  to  regulate water  additives.   This  was  effective  in terminating the1979 MOU (53 FR 25586-89 to be forwarded later)."   

 

That is your quote.  You were trying to say that nobody is in charge of Community Water Fluoridation in the United States.  

 

As evidence, you presented this document:  http://www.fluoride-class-action.com/wp-content/uploads/53-FR-25586.pdf     

 

I invite any readers of this thread to fully read this document.  It is about the EPA outsourcing some of its responsibilities to NSF and the private sector, which was formalized in 1988.   It has nothing to do with ending a Memorandum of Understanding between the FDA and the EPA about the authority over water fluoridation in the U.S.

 

Since you have the unwaivering habit of never admitting you are wrong about anything, I'm sure you will stand behind your ludicrous statement.  

 

So, did you, personally, have anything to do with the San Diego vote?  If so, they were misled.

 

 

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Regular Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 326 of 1,372

Excuse me but we need more of Carry Anne, not less.

The city of San Diego voted in two separate elections -- yes, twice-- not to add fluoridation chemicals into our pbulic water supplies. Eating fluoride should be a choice, not a police-forced mandate. And yet all SanDiego is forced to make payments for water in their kitchen sinks that is fluoridated, regardless of whether you want it or not.

Yes I see the irony.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 327 of 1,372

Your article suggests that fluoride is a peripheral contaminant on the surface of teeth when it is applied at 500 ppm. This has nothing to do with water fluoridation at 0.7 ppm that produces 0.016 ppm fluoride in saliva bathing teeth topically.

Further, one would need to brush teeth with 500 ppm fluoride every 20 minutes to actually retain this effect. It would be more efficient to paint teeth with white paint.Atleast theprote4citon from acid erosion would last for a while.

All this to justify increased cancer mortality, increased thyroid impairment, lowered IQ, and permanent bone accumulation forming bone of altered crystal structure and poor quality.

Count me out. .

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 328 of 1,372

Well, "Carrie Anne,"  this is an interesting comment from you:

 

"What we are talking about is the arrogance of fluoridationists who deny science and denigrate opponents in an attempt to bully professionals, politicians & politics into compliance."

 

It is interesting in light of the fact that you began this thread which you yourself dubbed,  "Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action."  

 

Please don't tell me you don't see the irony here.

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 329 of 1,372

”Fluoridation is against all modern principles of pharmacology.” - Dr. Arvid Carlsson, neuropharmacologist. 2000 Nobel Laureate in Medicine and official scientific advisor to the Swedish Government (1923-2018)

 

What we are talking about is the immorality of adding a poison to municipal water supplies based on a 1940s assumption that an arbitrarily determined concentration of it is not harmful when consumed in any dose by everyone from pregnant women to senior citizens with kidney disease. 

 

What we are talking about is the arrogance of fluoridationists who deny science and denigrate opponents in an attempt to bully professionals, politicians & public into compliance. 

 

What we are talking about is the stupidity of assuming our attempts to pH balance water systems and our fluoridation mechanisms don't fail resulting in permanent damage to people, plpes and planet. 

 

Fluoridation is medically contraindicated or ill advised for millions, including pregnant women, bottle fed babies and senior citizens.

 

  • Fluoridation adds toxins to the environment and is a false dilemma.

Buy a gallon jug for a buck if you don't believe brushing your teeth with it is enough. There is no need for cities to buy truckloads to flush 99% of it down the toilet. There is no need to cause disease, disability & premature death in millions with inflammatory, immune system, thyroid & kidney disease.

 

RECENT STUDIES: 

ALZHEIMER’S DISEASE: Describes impact of fluoride-induced stress and inflammation in the development of Alzheimer’s disease and demonstrates the mechanism for cell death in its worsening over time.

- Goschorska M, et al. Potential Role of Fluoride in the Etiopathogenesis of Alzheimer’s Disease. Int. J. Mol. Sci. 2018, 19 (12), 3965.

 

BRAIN INJURY: Fluoride interferes with calcium metabolism which impacts brain chemistry and poisons the hippocampus.  “The imbalance of calcium metabolism caused by fluorosis may be a pathogenesis of brain injury induced by fluoride.” 

- Qiuli Yu, Dandan Shao. Rui Zhang, Wei Ouyang, Zigui Zhang. Effects of drinking water fluorosis on L-type calcium channel of hippocampal neurons in mice. Chemosphere. Volume 220, April 2019, Pages 169-175. [Online Ahead of Print]

 

IODINE-THYROID: 18% of people drinking 'optimally' fluoridated water in Canadian communities have a heightened risk of low thyroid function because fluoride interferes with iodine metabolism. Many of them will be sub-clinical and not know they are mildly hypothyroid, which nevertheless increases their risk for diabetes, high cholesterol, and other problems. Study excluded those already diagnosed with thyroid disease.

- Ashley J. Malin, Julia Riddell, Hugh McCague, Christine Till. Fluoride exposure and thyroid function among adults living in Canada: Effect modification by iodine status. Environment International. Volume 121, Part 1, December 2018, Pages 667-674.

 

PREGNANT WOMEN: Pregnant Canadian women drinking 'optimally' fluoridated water had twice the fluoride exposure per individual testing as compared to pregnant women in non-fluoridated Canadian communities - and consistent with the range in the Mexican women whose children had up to 6 points lowered IQ based on prenatal exposure to fluoride (from salt). Excluded those with health conditions such as kidney disease as well as considered confounding factors such as tea consumption. 

- Christine Till, Rivka Green, John G. Grundy, Richard Hornung, Raichel Neufeld, E. Angeles Martinez-Mier, Pierre Ayotte, Gina Muckle, and Bruce Lanphear. Community Water Fluoridation and Urinary Fluoride Concentrations in a National Sample of Pregnant Women in Canada. Environmental Health Perspectives. October 2018. 

 

OVERDOSED BABIES: Over one third of babies (37%) in fluoridated American communities consume amounts of fluoride in excess of the upper limits of fluoride considered safe per government regulations. Even 4% of babies in non-fluoridated communities are overdosed on fluoride due to consumption of products made with fluoridated water. At the very least, this puts these children at high risk for developing dental fluorosis, which is associated with increased incidence of learning disabilities, broken bones and kidney disease. 

- Claudia X Harriehausen, Fehmida Z Dosani, Brett T Chiquet, Michelle S Barratt, and Ryan L Quock. Fluoride Intake of Infants from Formula. Journal of Clinical Pediatric Dentistry. 2018.

 

LEARNING DISABILITIES: Over 200 children were individually tested. Study found attention deficit disorder apparently caused by their prenatal exposure to fluoride specific to dose. This is the 3rd report out of the NIH sponsored 12 year study that seems to have been designed with the intention of showing no ill effect, but instead has three times confirmed low dose prenatal exposure to fluoride consistent with exposure in 'optimally' fluoridated communities causes subtle but permanent brain damage for many consumers. Excluded those with history of mental illness or conditions such as diabetes and renal disease. 

- Morteza Bashash, Maelle Marchand, Howard Hu, ChristineTill, Angeles Martinez-Mier, Brisa N. Sanchez, Niladri Basu, Karen Peterson, Rivka Green, Lourdes Schnaas, Adriana Mercado-García, Mauricio Hernández-Avila, Martha María Téllez-Rojo. Prenatal fluoride exposure and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) symptoms in children at 6–12 years of age in Mexico City. Environment International. Volume 121, Part 1, December 2018, Pages 658-666.

 

IQ: Validated that IQs of children are lowered on a dose-response trend line correlated with the amount of fluoride exposure as measured via urine tests of their mothers during pregnancy and individualized IQ tests of offspring. In the range consistent with doses in optimally fluoridated communities, there was up to a 6 point difference in IQ. This NIH sponsored 12 year longitudinal study excluded diabetics as well as those with kidney disease or pregnancy complications and allowed for many confounders. 

- Morteza Bashash, Deena Thomas, Howard Hu, et al. Prenatal Fluoride Exposure and Cognitive Outcomes in Children at 4 and 6–12 Years of Age in Mexico. Environ Health Perspect. Sept 2017. Vol 125, Issue 9.

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 330 of 1,372

Yes, of course, phosphate and calcium, together with fluoide, are involved in remineralising teeth, as well as inhibiting acid attack. The scientific observation that acid attack is moved to lower pH values when fluoride is present underlines how the involvement of fluioide in saliova helps reduce acid attack but calcium and phosphate are also involved in the chemical reactions occurring at the tooth surface.

There is a natural concentration on fluoide, but there are similar research reports of calcium levels in drinking water influencing the prevalance of tooth decay. In my own research, I have seen how calcium contrations in soil solution have a dramatic effect on the solubility of fluorapatite in soil.

Tooth enamel contains a small amount of fluoride in its chemical structure. But the important fluoride for existing teeth is at the surface of the tooth and in the saliva where it is involved, together with calcium and phosphate, in the surface reactions.

That important fluoride is in the surface layer of only a few nanometres. Read my recent article on this describing the recent research showing how that surface fluoride inhibits acid attack - https://openparachute.wordpress.com/2018/11/26/protection-of-teeth-by-fluoride-confirmed-yet-again/ 

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