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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 361 of 1,417

Yes and in the real world in a city with 1 ppm fluoride water, in the 21st century, ,eating and drinking modern foods  and beverages , the average fluoride level in saliva is 0.016 ppm. Do you want me to change the number the NRC 2006 Report published??

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Frequent Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 362 of 1,417

Richard, please stop squirming in an attempt to avoid the established science. Whether or not the slightly elevated F content of freshly excreted saliva has an influence or not is not at issue.

We are discussing the real world saliva which during the day contains fluoride, phosphate and calcium directly obtained from food and beverage. And also from toothpaste use and CaF2 reserves in the oral cavity. This has absolutely nothing to do with freshly excreted saliva - please stop trying to confuse the issue.

Whether or not you attempt to avoid F in food is also irrelevant. The established fact remains that in communities with water fluoridation tooth decay is reduced and the science indicates that with existing teeth this arises from the surface reactions involving phosphate, calcium and fluoride in saliva.

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Regular Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 363 of 1,417

Fluoride from saliva on fluoridated cities bathes teeth 24 jours a day, sll without any use. Fluoride from foods and beverages are also not near 500  ppm and ate not present on teeth 24 hours a day like saliva.

 Water fluoride is 0.7 ppm and also resides on teeth during swallowing and soon replaced with saliva.. So what? I try to eat foods devoid of fluoride to protect bone accumulation of fluoride which far more difficult in a forced fluoridated region. 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 364 of 1,417

Virtually the entire state of Nebraska voted against fluoridation and that had nothing to do with me either. The cities of Portland, Wichita, Albuquerque, Prince George Canada, and on and on have done the same. Some people have rational brains and trake care of their fresh water supplies.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 365 of 1,417

Richard, you are being purposely obtuse. The study I referred to was with a model apatite system, not teeth but designed to answer the question of whether the very thin surface layer with high fluoride content could provide the correction required. They used the 500 ppm solution to create the surface layer in their model - but this surface layer in existing teeth has been recognised before.

You continue to refer back to the 0.016 ppm F in saliva from INGESTED F - freshly excreted saliva without any interaction with food and beverage. You purposely attempt to confuse the issue because you know very well I have been discussing saliva with fluoride, calcium and phosphate levels which are far higher because of exposure to beverage and food during eating. Also to F released from CaF2 reserves in the oral cavity.

Please stop attempting this confusion - which seems quite common from people trying to deny the science. Paul Connett got to the stage of arguing that when one drank water there was no way it made contact with saliva in the mouth!!

Yes, the level of salivary chemical species like fluoride, calcium and phosphate does decline quite rapidly - that is why research shows that drinking fluoridated water has a protective effect above and beyond the use of fluoridated toothpaste once or twice a day

I just hope you can reduce these deliberate attempts at diversion and confusion as they make good faith scientific exchange impossible.

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 366 of 1,417

I am not "poor".  I am merely aware of the data from the text Fluoride the Aging Factor by biochemist John Yiamouyiannis. I do not dispute the data like fluoridationists do. It is valid and was used in several court cases to demonstrate that cities before fluoridation had diminishing cancer mortality at a much faster rate than after fluoridation began.. 

What else do you want me to say?  Denounce the data?

No thanks.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 367 of 1,417

Richard, your quote:  "All this to justify increased cancer mortality,"

 

Response:  While water fluoridation is increasing in this country,  https://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/statistics/FSGrowth.htm

cancer mortality is declining.  https://www.cancer.org/latest-news/facts-and-figures-2019.html

 

No doubt you will try to defend your comment, even in the face of reality.  Poor Richard.

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 368 of 1,417

CarryAnne you express concern about people who "who deny science and denigrate opponents in an attempt to bully professionals, politicians & politics into compliance" And then you post a long list of claims related to scientific studies which would be interesting to discuss and discuss in a respectful way.

 

I am prepared to offer you full right of reply in an ongoing exchange of scientific opinion on all the claims you make here (they are far too extensive to discuss rationally in this forum). This could be done by alternating articles on my blog Open Parachute.

 

Paul Connett and I carried out such a good faith scientific exchange 5 years ago and covered these sort of claims in detail. it was well received by readers and is available as a pdf to download - Connett & Perrott (2014) The Fluoride Debate - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/298124881_The_fluoride_debate

Would you agree to a similar exchange with me? I think this would overcome charges of science denial, denigration and bullying. And the formal scientific nature of the exchange will encourage it to be respectful.


Please let me know here if you are willing to participate in such a scientific exchange - and if so, some way of contacting you to make the arrangements.


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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 369 of 1,417

CarryAnne you express concern about people who "who deny science and denigrate opponents in an attempt to bully professionals, politicians & politics into compliance" And then you post a long list of claims related to scientific studies which would be interesting to discuss and discuss in a respectful way.

 

I am prepared to offer you full right of reply in an ongoing exchange of scientific opinion on all the claims you make here (they are far too extensive to discuss rationally in this forum). This could be done by alternating articles on my blog Open Parachute.

 

Paul Connett and I carried out such a good faith scientific exchange 5 years ago and covered these sort of claims in detail. it was well received by readers and is available as a pdf to download - Connett & Perrott (2014) The Fluoride Debate - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/298124881_The_fluoride_debate

Would you agree to a similar exchange with me? I think this would overcome charges of science denial, denigration and bullying. And the formal scientific nature of the exchange will encourage it to be respectful.


Please let me know here if you are willing to participate in such a scientific exchange - and if so, some way of contacting you to make the arrangements.


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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 370 of 1,417

Really, Richard?  San Diego voted twice to end CWF?  I wonder if they were dishonestly influenced by people like you.  

 

You, for example, who have said in an email to me, " in 1988 EPA published in the Federal Register            that it terminated the  agreement  it  made  in  1979  (1979  MOU)  with  FDA  to  regulate water  additives.   This  was  effective  in terminating the1979 MOU (53 FR 25586-89 to be forwarded later)."   

 

That is your quote.  You were trying to say that nobody is in charge of Community Water Fluoridation in the United States.  

 

As evidence, you presented this document:  http://www.fluoride-class-action.com/wp-content/uploads/53-FR-25586.pdf     

 

I invite any readers of this thread to fully read this document.  It is about the EPA outsourcing some of its responsibilities to NSF and the private sector, which was formalized in 1988.   It has nothing to do with ending a Memorandum of Understanding between the FDA and the EPA about the authority over water fluoridation in the U.S.

 

Since you have the unwaivering habit of never admitting you are wrong about anything, I'm sure you will stand behind your ludicrous statement.  

 

So, did you, personally, have anything to do with the San Diego vote?  If so, they were misled.

 

 

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