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Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

“The evidence that fluoride is more harmful than beneficial is now overwhelming… fluoride may be destroying our bones, our teeth, and our overall health.” - Dr. Hardy Limeback,  former President of Canadian ADA, Head of Preventive Dentistry at Univ of Toronto, 2006 National Research Council Scientist (2007)

 

The 2006 National Research Council on Fluoride in Drinking Water commented to the EPA that fluoridation at 1 ppm can be anticipated to be harmful for those with reduced renal function and the elderly. The NRC confirmed that fluoride not excreted by kidneys builds up in bones, resulting in arthritic pain and increased brittleness. However, there were no EPA studies on the whole health impacts of fluoridated water on susceptible population such as kidney patients, children, those with prolonged disease or the elderly. There still aren’t. 

 

However, there is mounting science from other sources that “optimally fluoridated” water, which is known to cause varying degrees of dental fluorosis in 58% of Black American adolescents and 36% of White American adolescents, is causing subtle deficits in ability to remember or focus. That same “optimal level” has also been proved in a 2014 study as being nephrotoxic in rats with chronic kidney disease. Chronic kidney disease (CKD) affects approximately 15% of Americans, although CKD is quadruple the rate in Black Americans, and predictably worse in older Americans. 

 

Perhaps the most horrifying part of the story of fluoridation is that not only is at least 50% of every drop of fluoride that has passed the lips of a Baby Boomer permanently stored in bones, fluoride isn't the only poison in packages of fluoride that originate as the waste product of aluminum an phosphate industry. 100% of the fluoride sampled in a 2014 study was contaminated with aluminum; arsenic and lead were other common contaminants. In other words, fluoridated water serves as a delivery system for aluminum and lead into our bones and our brains. As we all know, aluminum is associated with Alzheimers in adults, and lead is associated with learning disabilities in children. Approximately 15% of the population who is sensitive to chemicals cite inability to think clearly and overwhelming fatigue as symptoms of exposure to fluoridated water. 

 

Our generation was part of a great human experiment. It may have had noble intentions based on the faulty hypothesis that  drinking fluoridated water prevented cavities. It is now known that any perceived benefits of fluoride are from tooth brushing.  Our grandchildren are the third generation in this travesty. I suggest we all DEMAND the AARP stand up for us and our grandchildren by issuing a strong position paper calling for the cessation of water fluoridation. 

 

SCIENCE REFERENCES

  1. 2014 in Toxicology. Effect of water fluoridation on the development of medial vascular calcification in uremic rats. (“Optimal levels” worsen kidney function😞 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24561004
     
  2. 2015  in Neurotoxicology and Teratology. Association of lifetime exposure to fluoride and cognitive functions in Chinese children: A pilot study.  (Children with visible dental fluorosis perform less well on memory tasks, correlating with the degree of severity of their fluorosis. One of a series of human and animal studies with the same consistent findings.😞 
    1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25446012  
    2. http://braindrain.dk/2014/12/mottled-fluoride-debate/ 

  3. 2014 in Physiology and Behavior. Fluoride exposure during development affects both cognition and emotion in mice. (Measurable behavioral changes😞 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24184405

  4. 2014 in International Journal of Occupational and Environmental Health. A new perspective on metals and other contaminants in fluoridation chemicals. (All samples of fluoride are contaminated with aluminum, plus other contaminants like arsenic, lead and barium); 
    1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24999851
    2. http://momsagainstfluoridation.org/sites/default/files/Mullenix%202014-2-2.pdf

  5. 2014 in Scientific World Journal. Water Fluoridation: A Critical Review of the Physiological Effects of Ingested Fluoride as a Public Health Intervention. (Health risks and cost don't justify minimal and questionable dental benefit.):  http://www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2014/293019/

 

RACIAL INEQUITY (FOIA)

Here are three Oct 2014 news articles on the content of the Freedom of Information Act documents. Rev. Andrew Young, former UN ambassador has pursued them with the CDC, but to little effect. Civil Rights leaders have been calling for an end to community water fluoridation (CWF) since 2011. 

 

2015 LEGAL ARGUMENT (GROSS DISPROPORTIONALITY) 

There is a legal initiative in Peel, Ontario (pop 1.3m) to remove fluoride from the water supply based on the principle of gross disproportionality, i.e. marginal benefit does not justify great risk of harm. There is also a political effort afoot in Canadian govt to mandate fluoridation and thereby make the legal argument moot. I suggest this document is well-worth printing.  http://fluoridealert.org/wp-content/uploads/peel.june2014.pdf

  • a. The first 19 pages of this document is about the legal strategy. It includes summary of US legal cases that found water fluoridation harmful to the public, but legal under US "police power" mandate.
  • b. Starting on page 20 is a devastating affidavit by Dr. Kathleen Thiessen, NAS/NRC scientist and international expert in risk assessment. Very readable summary of science indicating harm to populations in “optimally” fluoridated communities. 

 

POPULATION WITH LOW CHEMICAL THRESHOLD

  1. In excess of 25% of previously healthy Gulf War Veterans have Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, which includes sensitivity to fluoride. See: http://www.va.gov/rac-gwvi/docs/committee_documents/gwiandhealthofgwveterans_rac-gwvireport_2008.pdf 
    1. EXCERPT: “It is well established that some people are more vulnerable to adverse effects of certain  chemicals than others, due to variability in biological processes that neutralize those chemicals, and clear them from the body.” - Research Advisory Committee on Gulf War Veterans’ Illnesses 2008 
  2. Affidavit of Dr. Hans Moolenburgh: https://fluorideinformationaustralia.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/affidavit-moolenburgh.pdf
    1. Except: “As a summary of our research, we are now convinced that fluoridation of the water supplies causes a low grade intoxication of the whole population, with only the approximately 5% most sensitive persons showing acute symptoms.The whole population being subjected to low grade poisoning means that their immune systems are constantly overtaxed. With all the other poisonous influences in our environment, this can hasten health calamities.” 
  3. PubMed Listed Studies on immune system response: 
    1. a. Fluoride makes allergies worse, rats (1990): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1707853 
    2. b. Fluoride makes allergies worse, in vitro (1999): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9892783
    3. c. Immune system of the gut (2010): http://www.hindawi.com/journals/iji/2010/823710/ 
    4. d. ASIA Syndrome, adjuvant impact (2011): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20708902
    5. e. Gene predicts fluoride sensitivity (2015): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25556215
    6. f.  Brain has an immune system (2015): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26030524

 

AARP - STAND UP on our behalf! 

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"The National Toxicology Program on Wednesday released a draft report linking prenatal and childhood fluoride exposure to reduced IQ in children, after public health officials tried for almost a year to block its publication."Brenda Balletti, PhD, March 16, 2023 

 

“The only reason we were able to get Kumar’s emails is because he’s a government official who is subject to Freedom of Information requests. It raises the question of what else we would learn if the emails of private actors, like the PR strategists who Kumar works with, were also accessible.” - Michael Connett, J.D. in  "Researchers Hid Data Showing Fluoride Lowers Kids’ IQs, Emails Reveal” by Brenda Baletti, Ph.D. (May 30. 2023)

 

It took long enough, what with the political machinations of bad actors, but the final phase of the lawsuit brought by the Food & Water Watch et al. v. EPA for its failure to adhere to the regulations of the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA) specific to the evidence of developmental neurotoxicity when exposure is pre- or post-natal even in low doses consistent with 'optimally' fluoridated city water will be heard (barring a government shutdown) between Jan 31-Feb 14, 2024. This is a historic trial because it is the first time that the EPA has been brought to task for failure to protect 'susceptible sub-populations' like infants under TSCA.

 

As previously noted in this thread, the brain damage to infants resulting in cognitive-behavioral deficits like more learning disabilities, lower IQ and behavioral problems is also noted in adults who have consumed fluoridated water for decades, resulting in dementia and other neuro-degenerative conditions. 

 

Additionally, kidney disease, arthritis, degenerative disc disease, brittle bones, etc. are caused by or exasperated by fluoridated water and foods prepared with that water. 

 

However, this month's "Fluoride on Trial" is only looking at the very high quality evidence of brain damage in the very young. For a preview of what is going on, see: 

 

 

Also out this month, a pdf detailing the pattern of fraud at the CDC which  benefits itself and its partners in the fluoride deception:

 

 

For some recent science specific to the health of seniors: 

 

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Your brain doesn’t need fluoride. Your thyroid gland doesn’t need fluoride. Your bones don’t need fluoride. The only part of your body that may benefit from fluoride are your teeth. And you can get the fluoride to your teeth through a very simple, elegant mechanism. You put it in toothpaste, you brush it on and you spit it out.” - Michael Connett, J.D., partner at Waters Kraus & Paul (2024) 

 

 “The controversy about fluoridation was inevitable because fluoridation was, in a real sense, conceived in sin. Fluoride is a major waste product of industry and one of the most devastating pollutants of the aluminum industry. The government not only dismissed the danger and left industry free to pollute, but it has promoted the intentional addition of fluoride - most of which is recycled industrial waste - to the nation’s drinking water.” - Prof. Albert Schatz  (1995)

 

If you or anyone in your family have thyroid or kidney disease, bone spursspondylosis, arthritis or any other bone disease watch this documentary. If you or anyone in your family has cataracts, learning disabilities or a degenerative neurological disease like dementia, watch this documentary. 

 

They knew in the 1940s and 1950s that fluoride caused a range of disease, and they know today. Fluoridation stakeholders who included some criminal medical and legal actors promoted it then, and similarly compromised players promote fluoridation now and for the same reason - it is profitable. Power, prestige and paychecks hinge on fluoridation policy. 

 

WATCH "Fluoride on Trial: The Censored Science on Fluoride and Your Health"

https://live.childrenshealthdefense.org/chd-tv/events/fluoride-on-trial-the-censored-science-on-fluo...

 

MODERN SCIENCEhttps://www.fluoridelawsuit.com/science 

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NTP Scientific Director Tells The Defender What He Couldn’t Tell the Court

EPA Paid Expert Witness $137,000 to Testify in Landmark Fluoride Trial

Fluoride Expert Squares Off Against EPA on Day 1 of Landmark Trial

 

My goodness! It has been an exciting ride. The witness testimony in the #FluorideTrial has ended, but closing arguments will be heard on Tuesday 2/20/2024. 

 

Plaintiff witnesses were wonderful, and were not shaken by EPA Counsel. The Defense witnesses were another matter. 

 

Not only did David Savitz clearly and several times state that neither he nor the NASEM committee he chaired to review the 2019-200 early drafts of the NTP report dispute the NTP conclusions or fault the NTP methods, he articulated that the NASEM group only felt the communication should have been clearer. Right there, that's a big win. But there is more. Savitz: 

  • Admitted he knows little about fluoride science and hadn't read that much
  • Misrepresented the findings of several studies (called out on cross examination as wrong)
  • Claimed there is no sex difference associated with neurotoxins which makes him question those studies (cross examination pointed to toxicology texts confirming sex differences are common; Savitz excused his error by saying he hadn't read them because he is not a toxicologist)
  • Admitted that he pulls in big bucks as an "expert" - including for the Telecom Industry which he repeatedly brought up. His rate is $500 hr and he has earned well over $100k in this trial
  • Recently sat on a panel for Health Canada concerning fluoridation policy with two other paid fluoridation shills. Health Canada apparently had no problems with the obvious conflict of interests 
  • Received multimillion dollar grants from pro-fluoridation sources like NIDCR. 

 

Then there was the officious Brian Barone of the EPA who bored us all to tears with his complicated descriptions of processes. His primary job seems to have been to confuse the judge with meaningless drivel. Barone claimed he: 

 

  • Can't do a scientifically justifiable risk assessment because of all the uncertainty
  • Believes there is "something there" (a neurotoxic effect), but won't determine what it is until there is more precise science for him to begin his calculations
  • Pulled a  couple of "Bill Clintons" when he claimed "Health Protective" can mean different things and retorted to Plaintiff Counsel "depends on how you define 'plausible'" in his defense of a bizarre study that contrary to every other study found that boys drinking fluoridated water have 21 point higher IQs  
  • Judges that the NTP and all the other scientists did things wrong, that as the EPA "Director of Integrity" only he knows the right way to do science
  • Attributes levels of fluoride in the urine of 3rd trimester women living in fluoridated communities as probably largely due to their kidneys being oversaturated with fluoride and therefor unable to process it appropriately. 

 

When Plaintiff Counsel asked Barone if he was "comfortable" with the kidneys of pregnant women being oversaturated with fluoride, Barone gulped and said, "My comfort level is not germane to the issue.

 

Really!!!!! 

 

Liars, sociopaths and criminals! All of them. 

 

Judge Chen is reviewing taped deposition testimony on that bizarre outlier study prior to asking a few more questions of counsel and hearing closing arguments scheduled on Tuesday, Feb 20th. It'll take a couple of weeks to get a ruling, and then there is always the option of appeal. Stay tuned. 

 

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 Dr. Joel Bohemier’s presentation to the Commissioners of Collier County, FL  includes quotes for EPA, CDC and others under oath from TSCA trial depositions. This presentation was part of the Commissioners deliberation that resulted in its unanimous vote to end fluoridation last week: https://unite.live/widgets/4142/recording/player#  

 

It is in the hands of Judge Chen, now, but I've got to say that the closing on Feb. 20th was odd.

 

Not only did Judge Chen pepper both attorneys with questions, the EPA attorneys seemed to admit that fluoride exposure at doses consistent with water concentration of 1.5 ppm, 2 ppm and 4 ppm had been proven to result in lower IQ per studies of mom-child pairs performed in Canadian and other communities across the world. They admitted this despite the official policy of the U.S. EPA stating there is no harm up to 4 ppm (the actionable threshold for remediation) other than mild cosmetic dental fluorosis (tooth staining) at or above 2 ppm. The Canadian government has an actionable threshold of 1.5 ppm which is consistent with the WHO guidelines. 

 

When Judge Chen challenged the EPA that per both plaintiff and defense witnesses, shouldn't there be a protective uncertainty or safety factor of at least ten to protect consumers applied to 2 or 4 which would protect teeth from moderate dental fluorosis which a recent Health Canada is concern at 1.56 ppm and from severe dental fluorosis which the 2006 National Research Council (NRC) said was an adverse health risk at 4 ppm which would also protect brains, EPA Defense attorney said that would be an interesting thought experiment, but Plaintiff attorney didn't argue about dental fluorosis (which by the way is positively associated with lower IQ and learning disabilities) so the judge could not legally do so. Frankly, it almost seemed like the EPA attorneys were threatening the Judge. 

 

Judge Chen pushed back about EPA "Health Protective Assumption" guidelines, but EPA insisted that the Judge must not act based on science or consumer protection, but on strict interpretation of statutory law and the skill of the Plaintiff attorney in proving his case. 

 

On the other hand, Plaintiff attorney was clear that the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA) only requires that any specific use of a chemical (fluoridation programs) not pose an "unreasonable risk" to consumers which include susceptible sub-populations like pregnant women and their offspring and bottle-fed babies. All five plaintiff witnesses were quite clear that optimally fluoridated water per CDC guidelines is subtly and permanently damaging the brains of millions of children. Even EPA witnesses and attorneys admitted that there is "something there" in the scientific evidence showing neurotoxic effects at 0.7 ppm, but argued it is not clearly defined enough to identify a "Point of Departure" for the EPA to perform a risk assessment. 

 

Really? 

 

Three Benchmark Dose Analyses which are the gold standard for beginning risk assessments and established uncertainty factors have identified that 0.2 mg/L, which is one tenth of 2 ppm, as harmful. This suggests that no fluoride exposure is safe for baby brains and is a scientifically justifiable Point of Departure in anyone's book.  

 

BMCLBMCL

 

But let's make it even easier for thick-headed fluoridationists to understand: 

  • No amount of fluoride in water or food is safe for pregnant women and their fetuses; bottle-fed infants and young children; the elderly and any in fragile health, such as diabetics or those with thyroid or kidney disease. 

 

 

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Hogwash. One person's "anecdotal observation" is another person's abject eyewitness certainty.  Anecdotal is relative. Anecdotal is for example articles published by fluoridation promoters who claim dental benefit when the error bars overlap between treated and controls, or when diet and brushing habits are not controlled. That may be abject truth to someone, but it is nevertheless anecdotal to a scientist. I visited the child myself and it is not anecdotal. Dental fluorosis is the first visible sign of fluoride poisoning. Sorry.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Why do I have to respond to anyone who calls me an "alternative heath pimp"?

The Graham and Morin reference (Highlights in North American Fluoride Litigation) happens to be online at various places. I should say go find it yourself, but to help readers, here it is:

 

http://whale.to/d/Graham.pdf

 

And Slott's stupid comments are important and essential to know about. This is one of a host of reasons why fluoridation promoters, at the AWWA, the CDC, the AFS, the ADA,k etc. continue to argue that treating peoples' teeth through public water supplies is not illegal.  You may not care, but we do.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Dr. Richard,

 

You don't have to respond to anyone.  And we should probably not respond to people who openly disparage, demean, belittle, bully, and/or attack without provocation.    

 

Name calling and attacking the messanger rather than the message is very unprofessional and you have remained professional and respected in your responses. 

 

I'm also proud of Carry Ann.  An excellent grasp of science, ethics and a kind person with good logic. 

 

I'm also hopeful for Dr. Johnny and Dr. Chuck that they will once again look at the considerable evidence that many are ingesting too much fluoride. 

 

However, emotions filter facts and everyone needs to be careful that we always consider facts -- a global view of all facts -- carefull.     

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

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Dr. Bill, 

 

Have you had time to review Dr. Limeback's deceptive photograph of iron-stained teeth (his diagnosis) of a patient who, according to him, had never drank optimally fluoridated water which appeared in an article about fluorosis on a website dedicated to the abolition of CWF?  I am not denying that the teeth have fluorosis, but I would be interested on your professional and ethical views in this discussion. 

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David,

 

I have not read anything in your posts which gives me the feeling that you honestly want my professional opinion on anything.  Your only interest in my comments is to demean me, attack me, try to prove me wrong, misquote, disparge and rip me apart like you have done to others.  Why should I put myself in that position?  I'm not insane. 

 

Several streams of empirical evidence indicate that many, millions, are hurting because of this public health blunder.  I feel their pain and at times they pay me money because of the public health blunder of excess fluoride exposure.  

 

Like Trump, you have repeatedly said the same disparaging attack over and over again, "Dr. Limeback's deceptive photograph. . . ."    Have you contacted Dr. Limeback?  Have you asked him to explain his comments?  What has been his response?

 

David, no gentleman or scholar would use your terms on another professional.  

 

John Galbraith is reported to have said, "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof."

 

Once again, may I request a professional scientific discussion.  

 

What scientific evidence (facts) do you rely on which gives you confidence no one in the USA is ingesting too much fluoride and water fluoridation is not a contributing factor to too much fluoride exposure?  And if some are ingesting too much, what is your estimate?  

 

Are you absolutely certain, thousands, tens/hundreds of thousands and millions of Americans are not ingesting too much fluoride?  What is your factual measured evidence?

 

If you answer by referencing other people rather than scientific peer reviewed published literature, then our discussion is over.   I'm not interested in disparaging terms on anyone.  Just factual evidence, not emotions.

 

I am willing to modify, change, or alter my position on fluoride exposure if you or anyone can present measured evidence on efficacy and safety at a fluoride dosage range.  

 

Quotes of tradition, emotion, money, marketing or endorsements do not count.   Facts count.

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

 

 

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Dr. Bill, sorry I haven't gotten back to you sooner, I just got back from the Carribean.  And I have to say, while there is a lot of poverty in St. Lucia, the teeth of these people appeared to me to be in great shape.  There is no visable decay whatsoever.  I understand this country adds fluoride to its salt. 

 

This was quite a contrast to other countries where I have stayed.  For example, I spent a considerable amount of time in Afghanistan.  The teeth of those people were / are visibly rotting out of their heads and you can see the pain they are in.  It is a disgrace.  And you should be ashamed of yourself in your efforts to take us back to that point in time where so much suffering exists. 

 

Your quote (Timestamp ‎01-16-2019 06:31 PM):

 

"David,

 

I have not read anything in your posts which gives me the feeling that you honestly want my professional opinion on anything.  Your only interest in my comments is to demean me, attack me, try to prove me wrong, misquote, disparge and rip me apart like you have done to others.  Why should I put myself in that position?  I'm not insane."

 

Response:  You are wrong.  Please point out to me where I have misquoted you or anyone else in any way and I will be happy to retract and apologize.  For example, I had said that Dr. Richard claimed that water fluoridation killed the salmon in the Sacramento River.   He rightly pointed out to me that he never said that.  He said CWF was responsible for the collapse of the salmon industry in the Sacramento River.  I was very happy to apologize and amend my comment.  

 

So, just for the record, please point out to me where I have misquoted you. 

 

Your quote:  "you have repeatedly said the same disparaging attack over and over again, "Dr. Limeback's deceptive photograph. . . ."    Have you contacted Dr. Limeback?  Have you asked him to explain his comments?  What has been his response?"

 

Response:  If you have bothered to read my comments, you know I have.  For your review, we are discussing Dr. Limeback's photograph on this webpage  http://fluoridealert.org/studies/dental_fluorosis04b/ .  It is the second photograph in the article. 

 

This is what Dr. Limeback said about those teeth:  "There is a history behind that case to which you refer on the Fluorideaction.net website. That young man had fluoride supplements because he grew up in a non-fluoridated area.   .   .   .    BTW, no one as yet has determined what the orange colour represents. My expert opinion is that it is extra iron incorporation into the enamel . . "

 

So, Dr. Bill, I truly would like your professional opinion about this.  I will ask you the same question I have asked him.  Don't you think it is a little deceptive to use a photograph of iron stained teeth (as the most obvious markings have nothing to do with fluoride), diagnose these teeth as having  "Mild Dental Fluorosis" and allow them to be put on a website dedicated to the abolition of community water fluoridation, when the patient himself grew up in a non-fluoridated area and did not have a history of drinking artificially fluoridated water?

 

Simple question, yes or no.  Do you consider that deceptive?  What is your professional opinion?

 

 

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Billo says, "You don't have to respond to anyone.  And we should probably not respond to people who openly disparage, demean, belittle, bully, and/or attack without provocation."

 

William, if you feel that I am bullying you by asking you to defend your comments, or name calling . . please feel free to report it to the AARP admin.  Be warned, however, you will have to provide evidence of your claims.  

 

If the fact that "Dr. Richard" has trouble comprehending the meaning of a provision in the Federal SDWA, and the fact that I have challenged him on it and pointed out his error, means that I am bullying him, perhaps you all should develop a thicker skin if you are going to continue to make extraordinary claims.

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Ok, Richard, I had asked who Graham and Morin are, and you provided a link which answered that question.  (But before we look at that, you had said, "I should say go find it yourself, but to help readers, here it is:"

 

Response:  You are making an extraordinary claim here.  It is your responsibility to provide evidence of it.  It is not my responsibility to simply believe you or to look up evidence of your claims myself.  This is what documentation is all about.  Based on some previous comments you have made, you don't seem to understand this.  

 

John Remington Graham:  * B.A., LL.B., of the Minnesota Bar. Federal Public Defender, 1969-1973; Co-Founder, Instructor, Assistant Professor, Associate Professor, Lecturer, Hamline University School of Law, 1972-1980; Special Counsel for the City of Brainerd, 1974-1980; Crow Wing County Public Defender, 1981-1984; Crow Wing County Attorney, 1991-l995; Advisor on British constitutional law and history to the Amicus Curiae for Quebec in the Supreme Court of Canada, 1997-1998. Mr. Graham has served as counsel in major fluoridation litigation in Minnesota, Washington State, Pennsylvania, Illinois, and Texas, 1974-1984

 

Pierre-Jean Morin:  Ph.D. in Experimental Medicine. Chief Profusionist, Royal Victoria Hospital in Montreal, 1957-1967; Coordinator for Research in the Heart Institute and Artificial Organs Group, and Lecturer in Medicine, Laval University, 1967-1979; Director of Medical Research, Laval University Hospital, 1973-1979; Senior Scientific Advisor to the Environment Minister and the Prime Minister of Quebec, 1976-l985; Director, Local Community Services Center, Lotbiniere West, 1979-1990. Dr. Morin was scientific advisor to counsel for the plaintiffs in major fluoridation litigation in Texas in l982.

 

So Graham and Morin are an attorney and a doctor.   

 

You had said, "The Safe Drinking Water Act intent, its purpose, was to halt the spread of water fluoridation (as described by Graham and Morin in their fluoridation litigation detailed monograph)."

 

You also directed my attention to footnote # 88.  

 

In the book you cite, the authors are discussing a case that had reached the Canadian Supreme Court, "Toronto v Forrest Hill."  The authors quote Justice Rand.  And then we see footnote #88:

 

"88. Id. at 118. The same distinction appears in the Safe Drinking Water Act, 42 U.S.C. § 300g-1(b)(11), which states, “No national primary drinking water regulation may require the addition of any substance for preventative health care purposes unrelated to contamination of drinking water.” This provision was intended by Congress to prohibit the use of the Safe Drinking Water Act as a means of imposing artificial fluoridation of public water supplies throughout the United States."

 

Is all of this correct thus far?  

 

Now let's look at what you said again:  "The Safe Drinking Water Act intent, its purpose, was to halt the spread of water fluoridation (as described by Graham and Morin in their fluoridation litigation detailed monograph)."

 

Really, Richard?  Do I really need to go through these two statements to prove they are not congruent?  Aside from the fact that your comments are based upon a book by a lawyer and a doctor, nowhere does anybody say - based on this one statute - that the intent and purpose of the SDWA was to stop CWF.

 

But let's look at the provision itself:  "“No national primary drinking water regulation may require the addition of any substance for preventative health care purposes unrelated to contamination of drinking water.”

 

The authors are correct.  This provision simply prevents a federal mandate.  "No national primary drinking water regulation," i.e., nothing from the Federal SDWA, "may require the addition of any substance," i.e., may demand, may force the addition of any substance, "for preventative health care purposes unrelated to contamination of drinking water.”   This is self explanatory.  

 

Richard, the Federal Safe Drinking Water Act was not written with the purpose of halting water fluoridation.  The authors of the book you cited, a doctor and a lawyer, never said that.  The Safe Drinking Water Act doesn't say that.  It simply says that the SDWA can't impose anything like CWF on anyone, the SDWA can't require it.  And the SDWA wasn't written for that purpose.  

 

I hope I won't be seeing this from you again.

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Richard, you say, "Why do I have to respond to anyone who calls me an "alternative heath pimp"?"

 

Response:  Actually that comment was directed toward billo.  He was the former director of the Fluoride Action Network which unashamedly has taken money from the unethical alternative health - multi million dollar alternative health company, Mercola.  Mercola has already received 4 warning letters from the FDA for unethical sales practices.  Mercola also happens to sell a lot of very expensive merchandise, which sells better when people are afraid of their drinking water and afraid of fluoride.

 

I hope that clears things up.  

 

I will look at your links and comment on them tomorrow.  Thank you for providing them.

 

 

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“The announced opinions and published papers favoring mechanical fluoridation of public drinking water are especially rich in fallacies, improper design, invalid use of statistical methods, omissions of contrary data, and just plain muddleheadedness and hebetude. Many of the blunders were so glaring that I gave them to my beginning freshman classes in statistics at the very first meeting. The students see through them straightway, and are afforded great amusement. Uproarious laughter frequently ensues. No special statistical equipment is necessary to detect those peccancies. Of course the class and the Group soon tired of those infantilities, and sought and found greater challenge.”- Prof. Hubert A. Arnold, Ph.D. (1980)

 

People trust authority… It is sobering to realize that human beings blindly trust authority and that authority figures… are the ones most easily duped.” - Stephen Greenspan, author of “Annals of Gullibility: Why We Get Duped and How to Avoid It” who lost $400k of his retirement to Bernie Madoff (2010)

 

Fluoridation promotion has always been flawed and has always had learned opponents. Going along with the crowd has always been popular, but never any guarantee. 

 

As to looking in the mirror, there are about 35 seniors opposed to fluoridation on the AARP forum  including several peer-reviewed scientists. The handful of fluoridationists on this thread are members of a well known troop that has overwhelmed local letters to the editors all over the country and abroad with vitriolic character assassination for years - often outnumbered but persistent in their dogged attacks. They include retired or semi-retired dentists. This group descended  on AARP en masse in June 2018. The forum had been proceeding unmolested with periodic activity since Feb 2015.  

 

For more on the orchestrated efforts of this small band of fluoridationists, see the letter below. Also pay attention to the resources attached to that letter: http://fluoridealert.org/wp-content/uploads/SalemState2016.09.07.pdf

 

Regardless, fluoridation policy is an immoral medical mandate that forces contaminated products into the the bodies of convenient consumers regardless of adverse impact on individuals for whom consumption is ill advised. Senior citizens are a class of people who have been identified as particularly vulnerable to the ill effects of fluoride consumption as fluoride is an inflammatory drug that accumulates in bones, damages kidneys and has been implicated in plaque formation in hearts & brains. 

 VennMM.jpg

 

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Yes. Simply because the EPA does not prohibit drinking water with F below 2 ppm does not give anyone the right to purposely infuse this regulated contaminant into public water. Note that CA state law mandates that driving on the freeway must be at speeds no less than 45 mph. But that does not make it right to drive 45 when someone is on the freeway standing in front of you. Likewise is it legal to force fluoride into public,water supplies that harms  many from bone incorporation and those with iodide insufficiency and kids who don't want to have dental fluorosis when they grow up, among other effects, simply because the law only prohibits drinking water at 2 ppm or higher? Of course not but yet that is how the EPA, and the many court rulings tnat follow the EPA, end up endorsing or allowing something that the SDWA prohibits from being required. Laws can be interpreted the,way one wants but that does not make it right. The fact is that fluoridation, in a fluoride tootbpaste, etc world, is harming people and should be disallowed legally, beyond simply being prohibited from being required. Those who know the facts are not in a position to make the law better fit the facts. So appealing to truth on the part of those who force fluoridation of people is the usual direction to take. But fluoridationists are typically unable to comprehend what it is they force.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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“When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.” - Thomas  Jefferson

 

“The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” - Thomas  Jefferson

 

Multiple judges have ruled that fluoridation is injurious, that the evidence proves it harms many consumers and contributes to cancer but is legal under the law which gives jurisdiction to the legislature with administrative police powers. Judges have advised that under current law, it is up to the legisilature to deal with fluoridation. Consequently, fluoridation has become a political game, and we all know the power of money and marketing in politics.  

 

It's not just ethics and evidence that are lost in the politicization of fluoridation, it's the very concept of our Republican Democracy that was designed to protect constitutional and individual human rights of all the people. Civil Rights and Suffergette were manifestations of that principle, hard fought as they were. However, the banning of public smoking in order to protect the health of the most vulnerable among us from harm caused by the pollution of a shared resource by 2nd hand smoke is the most accurate analogy.

 

Per the 2nd Jeffersonian quote above, fluoridation causes billions of dollars in increased health expenses for millions of us in addition to actually breaking the bones of many of us with arthritis & osteoporosis or other bone disease caused or aggravated by chronic fluoride exposure.  Government has a a clear duty to end fluoridation as fluoridation literally breaks bones and picks pockets. 

 

Fluoridationists can't win with medical, scientific, or ethical arguments - so they prefer politics which is riddled with lies. As a last resort, they claim the courts have found fluoridation safe - another one of the fluoridationists' deceits. 

 

  • This is why it is important that organizations such as the Children's Health Defense Team with its emphasis on environmental risks and government failure to do its duty make a public statement like they did on January 9, 2019.
  • This is why it is important for AARP to demonstrate similar professional integrity by issuing a resolution against fluoridation policy per call to action in Open Letter signed by 8 professional organizations published on GreenMed on October 26, 2018.

 

See quotes below from a few of the judges who heard fluoridation cases: 

 

Trial Judge who found CWF harmful: ”That the artificial fluoridation of public water supplies… may cause or may contribute to the cause of cancer, genetic damage, intolerant reactions, and chronic toxicity, including dental mottling, in man; that the said artificial fluoridation may aggravate malnutrition and existing illnesses in man; and that the value of said artificial fluoridation is in doubt as to the reduction of tooth decay in man." - Judge Anthony Farris, District Court, Houston, TX (May 24, 1982)

 

Trial Judge who found CWF harmful: ”My decision regarding the fluoridation of the public water  supply, made during my tenure as a trial judge almost twenty years ago, was on appeal, purely a jurisdictional issue...That the practice is deleterious is more and more accepted -- its utility doubted." - Judge John P. Flaherty, Chief Justice in the Supreme Court of PA (1996)

 

Trial Judge who found CWF unconstitutional: “By [fluoridating the water] the municipal authorities... arrogate to themselves the sole right to decide what medicine is good for the health of the water consumers, and thereby the municipal water system becomes a direct conduit for the transportation of medicine from the apothecary's pestle to the patient, without the latter's consent. Thus will the people be deprived of a very important part of their constitutional liberty under our republican form of government and the police state will be substituted for the police power of the state." - Justice Donworth, dissenting opinion  in KAUL vs. CITY OF CHEHALIS before Supreme Court of Washington (1954) 

 

Trial Judge who found CWF harmful:  "Over the course of five months (in 1978), the court held periodic hearings, which consisted of extensive expert testimony from as far away as England. At issue was the most recent time-trend study of Dr. Burk and Dr. Yiamouyiannis, which compared cancer mortality in ten cities which fluoridated their water systems with ten cities which did not fluoridate over a period of twenty-eight years from 1940 to 1968. The study concluded that there was a significant increase in cancer mortality in the fluoridated cities." - Judge John P. Flaherty, Chief Justice in the Supreme Court of PA (1996)

 

Trial Judge who found CWF harmful: “Nothing I have seen changes my view of the serious hazards occasioned by public fluoridation. To the contrary, what I have read convinces me all the more that in depth, serious, scientific effort should be undertaken before further expanding a questionable practice. Those who belittle critics of fluoridation do the public a mis-service, yet it seems in the face of strong, uncontradicted prima facie evidence, that is the tactic most often employed.” - Judge John P. Flaherty, Justice in the Supreme Court of PA (1988)

 

 It may be legal and it may be political, but there is nothing ethical, scientific or democratic about adding this poison to municipal water.
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And to think that there are people who actually believe that fluoridation is a democratic procedure is absolutely moronic.  The city of San Diego voted twice, --two separate elections over a multi-year period -- against fluoridation and later also passed city ordinance section 67 that prohibts the addition of fluoridation chemicals into our water supplies. And yet when money was placed in front of the city council, all that was ignored and fluoridation was forced on the city anyway in 2011.

Democratic voting most often is opposed to fluoridation as long as a fair campiagn is conducted that includes actual data.  And yet this bone fluoridation program is actually mandated in many states including CA where there was no State wide public vote at all.

Democratic? You've got to be joking.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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It's called a democratic society, Rich. Democracy.........Not like the party affiliation
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That is correct. So what is your point?

San Diego held democratic elections and they are ignored by fluoridationists.

And the 7 pages of mostly dental officials praising fluoride ingestion are plagued with false statements and none of the sections are referenced.

The Mayo Clnic writer is wrong because fluorine as an element, F2,  does not exist in nature. Fluoride compounds do, but that does not include NaF or H2SiF6.

The opening claim is that fluoride remineralizes teeth. This is a common false notion. Normal teeth enamel contains no fluoride and is a hard crystalline form of hydroxyapatite. And also fluoride does not incorporate into enamel topically or systemically because enamel is too hard. One can force fluoride in by applying HF hydrofluoric acid, acidulated fluoride gels for example, which dissolves enamel and forms an abnormal structure and is not something to be desired. Bone hydroxyapatite of course is a different crystal form and readily incorporates fluoride in exchange for hydroxide when fluoridated water is consumed.

And the late Linus Pauling stopped promoting fluoridation and advocated vitamin D, which increases calcium absorption, for preventing tooth decay. Calcium builds strong teeth, not fluoride. (I was fortunate to have a chemustry class at UCSD from Pauling). So this 7 page list of undocumented claims is far out of date.

Other errors are so numerous that who would want to read all the corrections?

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Absolute horse puckey. Most of the fluoride in the bloodstream of consumers in fluoridated communities is from fluoridated water consumption. The rest is from foods and toothpastes, etc. (NRC 2006).  Dental fluorosis increases in incidence in every fluoridated city. There are no exceptions. This is old  news.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Thanks carryanne. Indeed , the safe drinking water act was written specifically to halt the  spread of artificial fluoridation of peoples' drinking water. Fluoride promoters not only deny this, they misinterpret the law the way they want. And the CDC dentists who assume it is useful and somehow harmless promote it, knowing it cannot be legally required.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Richard Sauerheber,

 

I laugh every time I hear you repeat this (one of so many) falsehood:  “ Indeed , the safe drinking water act was written specifically to halt the  spread of artificial fluoridation of peoples' drinking water. Fluoride promoters not only deny this, they misinterpret the law the way they want.”  Timestamp:  01-14-2019 02:37 PM

 

Below your odd interpretation is “Carry Anne,” as she is known in this thread, quoting from the Safe Drinking Water Act:  “Since first enacted in 1974, the Safe Drinking Water Act has stated that “[n]o national primary drinking water regulation may require the addition of any substance for preventive health care purposes unrelated to contamination of drinking water.”  Timestamp:  01-14-2019 02:07 PM

 

Aside from the fact that the statute that “Carry Anne” quotes does not prohibit community water fluoridation, I have to wonder, Richard, since you seem to have such an enlightened perspective of the law, why you present these interesting legal opinions to the attention of the AARP in a discussion thread.  Do you believe that after accepting your legal opinion, the AARP has the ability to change the law? 

 

I’m just thinking out loud here, but wouldn’t your expert legal opinion be better served in a Court of Law where actual results may occur? 

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I think readers understand that AARP is not an organization that spends time in attempts, usually futile, to change laws, as neither am I in such a position. 

But it is the trurh that matters.

A friend I hadn't seen in years has a child in Temecula who has consumed fluoridated water since it began there in 2007 and now has substantial dental fluorosis that is unsightly.  I am upset that I was unable to explain to them the truth about fluoridation. 

Another source of fluoride in bone is general anesthesia where 10 % of the drug is metabolized to the ion. To answer Dr. Osmunsen's question about what fluoride sources should be removed to curtail these problems from fluoride exposure, it is obviously fluoride in water which has no benefit at all, as proven in controlled animal studies and in the largest human studies we have.

It was claimed that Delta Dental is knowledgable enough to believe in fluoridation. But the truth is that DD is a business that collects premiums and pays from that part of peoples' dental bills, but never more than what is paid in, so massive amounts of money are accumulated which are regularly given to city councils to coerce cities to undergo this bone fluoridartion program where it is argued to be "mandated by law". DD believes in what they are doing but people would be better served if their premiums were used in full to pay dental bills, like a real insurance company does such as AAA auto insurance. They replace the whole car, not part of a wrecked car. That way DD would be insulated ftom the useless harmful fluoridation scam.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Richard says,  "I think readers understand that AARP is not an organization that spends time in attempts, usually futile, to change laws, as neither am I in such a position."

 

Change laws?  You just said the SDWA, which is the law, was written to halt the spread of water fluoridation.  If it is the law . . as you say . . you don't need to change anything.  You need to get the Courts to impliment the law.  

 

You're not in a position to do that?  Because that would take money, right?  Don't tell me there is no money behind your fear-mongering campaign.  Mercola invested $1 Million into an anti-water-fluoridation fear-mongering campaign in Portland, Oregon.  That sounds like there is plenty of money behind your paranoia crusade.  

 

Well is water fluoridation against the law or isn't it?  Was the SDWA really "written specifically to halt the  spread of artificial fluoridation of peoples' drinking water," or wasn't it?  .  .  No, of course not.  These are very strange comments by people who are motivated by a bias so intense that it warps reality.  

 

And . . your undocumented, anecdotal story about somebody in Temecula is meaningless.

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I'm being asked whether fluoridation is illegal or not, with the pretense to actually want to learn something from me. The answer will not be received, but it is this: The Safe Drinking Water Act intent, its purpose, was to halt the spread of water fluoridation (as described by Graham and Morin in their fluoridation litigation detailed monograph). However the wording of the law covered all substances (other than those required to sanitize water) where it prohibited any National requirement to add such substances This allowed fluoridationists to twist the law and claim it does not prevent specifically fluoridation (with various excuses provided, see below).

So my statement in the earlier post was that it would be best if the law could be written more forcefully, namely a stated disallowing of fluoridation period, rather than the prohibiting of a requirement. The requirement provision was obviously insufficient to halt the spread of fluoridation. So the anwer is yes it is illegal because it does not sanitize water, but all laws can be broken when enough rewriting and excuses are made.

Fluoridationist S. Slott for example argues that fluoridation is comparable to chlorination because chlorine and fluoride are both toxic at high concentrations but are added to treat water at lower concentrations for a benefit, so this is consistent with the SDWA. This is in complete denial of the intent of the Act and is chemically incorrect also.  Chlorine is added to kill bacteria to make water potable and nonlethal. Fluoride has nothing to do with sanitizing water which the Act allows. Fluoride is added to treat human beings. Slott then retorts that fluoride does not treat humans, it treats the water, but this is of couse nonsense. There is no reason to add fluoride to water to support hydration. If a community had good dental care with no caries problem, why would anyone add fluoride to the entire water supply of the city? (The irony here of course is that eating fluoride all day long does not affect caries anyway).

Is this clearer?

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Richard says, "The Safe Drinking Water Act intent, its purpose, was to halt the spread of water fluoridation (as described by Graham and Morin in their fluoridation litigation detailed monograph)."

 

Response:  Who are Graham and Morin?  Please provide a link and documentation so we know what you are talking about.

 

RS:  "However the wording of the law covered all substances (other than those required to sanitize water) where it prohibited any National requirement to add such substances"

 

Response:  Please provide the wording of the law, and document, so we know what you are talking about.

 

The remainder of your comment appears to rest on the premise of these first two.  Please clarify your meaning on those and then we can move on.  I am not interested in fluoridationist Slott.  I am interested in why fluoridation is illegal.  Please stay on topic.

 

 

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David,

 

Consider 3 main catagories of evidence strongly affecting most people.

 

1.  Marketing/money are the most powerful.

 

2.  Tradition is almost as powerful as marketing and money.

 

3.  Current facts/science which changes our paradigm has less power for most people (like Donald Trump).  However, facts and science should have the most impact for critical thinking individuals.  

 

Which of those do you think Delta Dental and other dental insurance companies put emphasis, rely on?  Money, marketing, profit, unless alittle waste would upset tradition, their base.  Delta Dental support tradition so they can lower fees paid to dentists.  They don't want to totally anger dentists and other insurance companies go along.  8 years ago I twice asked Delta for their numbers on cost benefit of fluoridation, reduced caries and/or costs in fluoridated communities.  Delta said the numbers were soon to be published.  8 years later and nothing published.  I bet the numbers don't show cost reduction so they don't publish.  A few clicks on their computers would show the difference in fluoridated and non-fluoridated communities.  Facts don't support tradition so silence.

 

What about organizations other NGO and Governments and Public Health?  What do they rely on?  Tradition?  Lots of work to review the science.

 

What about you?  Your emails keep going to tradition and marketing/money.

 

Fluoridation had great marketing and money, little science, when it started.

 

NGO's jumped in, partly to "do good."  

 

Tradition keeps fluoridation going inspite of the new science showing lack of benefit (probably because other sources of fluoride and excess fluoride increases caries) and serious risks.

 

David, when you reference money, marketing or tradition, I pay little attention and for those opposed to fluoridation I expect they turn off their hearing.  We should not abandon tradition on a whim, but on science and facts.

 

If you would start to provide science within the last 20 years, I'm listening.

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

 

 

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Billo, 

 

Perhaps I was a bit harsh, but I truly do not understand how you would think anybody reading this thread could take any of you so-called anti-fluoride experts seriously.  .   .  And I'm not attacking you people.  I am criticizing the deceptiveness of your comments and actions.

 

You've got Limeback who photographed iron-stained teeth, which had never touched optimally fluoridated water, putting his picture in an article about mild dental fluorosis.  .   .  An article written by an attorney.  (See photograph 2 here http://fluoridealert.org/studies/dental_fluorosis04b/ )

 

You've got "Carrie Anne," or whatever name she is going by in this thread.  

 

You've got Sauerheber who - with no evidence - a lone reed in the wind - proclaiming that water fluoridation killed all the salmon in Sacramento.  .  .  Who claims that the SDWA was written with the specific intent of halting water fluoridation . .  I mean -  Come on.

 

And we've got you, who just appears to pull facts from . . I don't know . . wherever.  Sorry, Bill, if I dismissed you so quickly, but when I see false, meaningless, undocumented statements from people pushing your agenda, to me it's just another load of junk from you alternative health pimps.

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And here is yet another lie. I have never written that water fluoridation in Sacramento killed all the salmon in the River. What nonsense. I provided the evidence that a large salmon collapse was prolonged after fluoridation began in Sacramrento and explained why this could be, and that there are no salmon depositing eggs near the outflow tube that discharges the city fluoridated waste water. If you wnt to make an issue of this, stick to the facts. We don't need even more lies.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Richard:  "And here is yet another lie. I have never written that water fluoridation in Sacramento killed all the salmon in the River."

 

Response:  You are right, Richard, and I apologize.  You said water fluoridation was responsible for the salmon collapse in Sacramento.  My mistake.

 

RS:  "I provided the evidence that a large salmon collapse was prolonged after fluoridation began in Sacramrento and explained why this could be, and that there are no salmon depositing eggs near the outflow tube that discharges the city fluoridated waste water."

 

Resonse:  No, you provided zero evidence.  You couldn't tell me the background level of fluoride in the river, you didn't account for stormwater infiltration dilluting fluoride discharge, you couldn't tell me the flow of the river, you couldn't tell me the amount of discharge into the unknown volume of the river.  You didn't account for temperature variations because of discharged effluent into the river.  You provided no autopsey reports on dead fish.  

 

Richard, exactly what evidence did you provide?

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David,

 

Your apology is accepted, and then you attacked assuming deception.   Calm down.  Get off the personal attacks.  Read what is said.  

 

Again, you list several people and attack them personally.  But you fail to provide the data on which you base your scientific opinions.  You should be knighted by Donald Trump.  The two of you have similar thought processes, you go with your gut and the facts be ignored.

 

When concepts and statements do not fit into your box of tradition, you reject the person as "deceptive."  Again, attack the facts, not the people.   Could it be a problem of communication and understanding or is it moral intentional deception?   Calm down.  Good people on both sides of this discussion.  Calm down.

 

You have repeated ad nausium photos and Limeback.   

 

Are you a dentist?  In what state are you licensed?  My memory says you denied being a dentist.

 

Are you licensed to diagnose any dental disease? DO, MD, DDS, DMD or ?   I don't think so.

 

Do you know the name of the patient in the photograph?  I'm guessing no.

 

Do your really know, factually, scietifically, with measured evidence that the patient never touched fluoridated water?  Impossible.  Fluoridation is ubiquitous in water, processed foods, etc.  Your statement, "photographed iron-stained teeth, which had never touched optimally fluoridated water," is absolutely 100% unscientific, without evidence and makes no sense.  Calm down.    You are 100% wrong, on that statement. 

 

OK.  Let me try to understand your intent.  Iron stains can be polished off.  I saw these stains more in the past when people used iron pots and pans.  I have not seen iron stains for some time.    Did you try polishing the stains off so you can assure me they are iron stains?   And does iron cause intrinsic stains?  If so, show me the research with photographs.  

 

Take what a person says and try to understand what they are saying.  I'm trying to understand you, but your personal attacks make you sound very angry and with no intent to review science. 

 

I don't lump you in with others, don't lump me in with others.   Everyone makes mistakes and with time learns more.  Building walls does not help people overcome their misunderstanding. 

 

Give me good science that Dr. Limeback has misdiagnosed those photographs.

 

Thanks,

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH 

 

 

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Bill, you argue that I never read your comments, yet you never read mine.

 

Your quote:  "

You have repeated ad nausium photos and Limeback.   

 

Are you a dentist?  In what state are you licensed?  My memory says you denied being a dentist.

 

Are you licensed to diagnose any dental disease? DO, MD, DDS, DMD or ?   I don't think so.

 

Do you know the name of the patient in the photograph?  I'm guessing no.

 

Do your really know, factually, scietifically, with measured evidence that the patient never touched fluoridated water?  Impossible."

 

Response:  I know that this patient had never touched optimally fluoridated water because Dr. Limeback said he grew up in a non-fluoridated area, but took fluoride pills.

 

Am I a licensed MD, DDS? 

 

No, but a licensed DDS, who photographed the teeth, said he believed the teeth were iron stained, and that the patient didn't drink optimally fluoridated water. 

 

Your condescending remarks speak to the fact that you have never bothered to read the points I was making, or took the time to consider the issue at hand.

 

It says more about your closed mind than it does about mine.  

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Just like I said, I was asked a question, but obviously merely for the purpose of being assailed, not for the purpose of learning something. Now the claim is that there is no reference provided about the intent of the SDWA. Wow.  Here is the Graham and Morin monograph, pleese consult footnote #88.

The U.S. Congress expected the SDWA to halt the spread of water fluoridation.  And yet I am denounced for making this statement. When do I throw up?

 

And BTW I object to any child having to live with the embarrassment of dental fluorosis, no matter how severe, not just my friends' kids. So the data point I provided is not "anecdotal". The Bible says kids have angels who look directly in the face of God Himself. So stop fluoride poisoning our kids, where the major contributor to the dental fluorosis abnormal enamel hypoplasia is water fluoridation. Get rid of it.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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