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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 301 of 1,248

Regarding "I note you cite some obscure person in New Zealand. . . . ".

 

A response from New Zealand reads:

 

“Everything appears obscure when you keep your eyes shut. Dr. Chuck should try opening his.”

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 302 of 1,248

Yes. Simply because the EPA does not prohibit drinking water with F below 2 ppm does not give anyone the right to purposely infuse this regulated contaminant into public water. Note that CA state law mandates that driving on the freeway must be at speeds no less than 45 mph. But that does not make it right to drive 45 when someone is on the freeway standing in front of you. Likewise is it legal to force fluoride into public,water supplies that harms  many from bone incorporation and those with iodide insufficiency and kids who don't want to have dental fluorosis when they grow up, among other effects, simply because the law only prohibits drinking water at 2 ppm or higher? Of course not but yet that is how the EPA, and the many court rulings tnat follow the EPA, end up endorsing or allowing something that the SDWA prohibits from being required. Laws can be interpreted the,way one wants but that does not make it right. The fact is that fluoridation, in a fluoride tootbpaste, etc world, is harming people and should be disallowed legally, beyond simply being prohibited from being required. Those who know the facts are not in a position to make the law better fit the facts. So appealing to truth on the part of those who force fluoridation of people is the usual direction to take. But fluoridationists are typically unable to comprehend what it is they force.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 303 of 1,248

Dr. Chuck,

 

You recommend going to court.   

 

Again, you are relying on other people rather than facts.  

 

Science is based on facts, data, evidence, not on opinions or even the law. 

 

Sometimes the facts change and do not fit the law.  For example, a city may have fluoridated their water at 1 ppm, by law.  The facts showed too many people were ingesting too much fluoride and a recommendation was made to lower the concentration of fluoride in water.  The city laws were changed to more accurately reflect the new facts.  However, the "30%" reduction was estimated by HHS to be about 14% exposure reduction.  In my opinion, the minor reduction was not enough.

 

Judges do not like to rule against government agencies. 

 

Judges like to rule on matters of law, rather than science.

 

And indeed, we have found a judge who appears to be willing to review the evidence from experts.  Of course, courts are slow.  I'm confident both sides will have a fair hearing.  Depending on the government shut down, we might see a ruling this year.

 

Look at the facts, not emotions or public opinion which is often based on tradition and marketing.

 

Think FACTUAL evidence, examples:

 

A.     60% dental fluorosis, 20% moderate/severe.   Too much fluoride.

 

B.     Urine fluoride concentrations in the USA often exceeds 0.85 mg/L.  

 

Bashash et al Dec 2018   

"Prenatal fluoride exposure and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) symptoms in children at 6-12 years of age in Mexico City. - PubMed - NCBI

RESULTS:

Mean MUFcr was 0.85 mg/L (SD = 0.33) and the Interquartile Range (IQR) was 0.46 mg/L. In multivariable adjusted models using gamma regression, a 0.5 mg/L higher MUFcr (approximately one IQR higher) corresponded with significantly higher scores on the CRS-R for DSM-IV Inattention (2.84 points, 95% CI: 0.84, 4.84) and DSM-IV ADHD Total Index (2.38 points, 95% CI: 0.42, 4.34), as well as the following symptom scales: Cognitive Problems and Inattention (2.54 points, 95% CI: 0.44, 4.63) and ADHD Index (2.47 points; 95% CI: 0.43, 4.50). The shape of the associations suggested a possible celling effect of the exposure. No significant associations were found with outcomes on the CPT-II or on symptom scales assessing hyperactivity.

CONCLUSION:

Higher levels of fluoride exposure during pregnancy were associated with global measures of ADHD and more symptoms of inattention as measured by the CRS-R in the offspring."

 

Another:  Bashish et al 2017.

 

Prenatal Fluoride Exposure and Cognitive Outcomes in Children at 4 and 6-12 Years of Age in Mexico. - PubMed - NCBI

RESULTS:

We had complete data on 299 mother-child pairs, of whom 287 and 211 had data for the GCI and IQ analyses, respectively. Mean (SD) values for urinary fluoride in all of the mothers (n=299) and children with available urine samples (n=211) were 0.90 (0.35) mg/L and 0.82 (0.38) mg/L, respectively. In multivariate models we found that an increase in maternal urine fluoride of 0.5mg/L (approximately the IQR) predicted 3.15 (95% CI: -5.42, -0.87) and 2.50 (95% CI -4.12, -0.59) lower offspring GCI and IQ scores, respectively.

CONCLUSIONS:

In this study, higher prenatal fluoride exposure, in the general range of exposures reported for other general population samples of pregnant women and nonpregnant adults, was associated with lower scores on tests of cognitive function in the offspring at age 4 and 6-12 y."

 

Excess fluoride is frying the fetus and children's brains.

 

What is your recommendation for reducing excess fluoride exposure?

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

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Fluoridation picks pockets & breaks bones

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Message 304 of 1,248

“When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.” - Thomas  Jefferson

 

“The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” - Thomas  Jefferson

 

Multiple judges have ruled that fluoridation is injurious, that the evidence proves it harms many consumers and contributes to cancer but is legal under the law which gives jurisdiction to the legislature with administrative police powers. Judges have advised that under current law, it is up to the legisilature to deal with fluoridation. Consequently, fluoridation has become a political game, and we all know the power of money and marketing in politics.  

 

It's not just ethics and evidence that are lost in the politicization of fluoridation, it's the very concept of our Republican Democracy that was designed to protect constitutional and individual human rights of all the people. Civil Rights and Suffergette were manifestations of that principle, hard fought as they were. However, the banning of public smoking in order to protect the health of the most vulnerable among us from harm caused by the pollution of a shared resource by 2nd hand smoke is the most accurate analogy.

 

Per the 2nd Jeffersonian quote above, fluoridation causes billions of dollars in increased health expenses for millions of us in addition to actually breaking the bones of many of us with arthritis & osteoporosis or other bone disease caused or aggravated by chronic fluoride exposure.  Government has a a clear duty to end fluoridation as fluoridation literally breaks bones and picks pockets. 

 

Fluoridationists can't win with medical, scientific, or ethical arguments - so they prefer politics which is riddled with lies. As a last resort, they claim the courts have found fluoridation safe - another one of the fluoridationists' deceits. 

 

  • This is why it is important that organizations such as the Children's Health Defense Team with its emphasis on environmental risks and government failure to do its duty make a public statement like they did on January 9, 2019.
  • This is why it is important for AARP to demonstrate similar professional integrity by issuing a resolution against fluoridation policy per call to action in Open Letter signed by 8 professional organizations published on GreenMed on October 26, 2018.

 

See quotes below from a few of the judges who heard fluoridation cases: 

 

Trial Judge who found CWF harmful: ”That the artificial fluoridation of public water supplies… may cause or may contribute to the cause of cancer, genetic damage, intolerant reactions, and chronic toxicity, including dental mottling, in man; that the said artificial fluoridation may aggravate malnutrition and existing illnesses in man; and that the value of said artificial fluoridation is in doubt as to the reduction of tooth decay in man." - Judge Anthony Farris, District Court, Houston, TX (May 24, 1982)

 

Trial Judge who found CWF harmful: ”My decision regarding the fluoridation of the public water  supply, made during my tenure as a trial judge almost twenty years ago, was on appeal, purely a jurisdictional issue...That the practice is deleterious is more and more accepted -- its utility doubted." - Judge John P. Flaherty, Chief Justice in the Supreme Court of PA (1996)

 

Trial Judge who found CWF unconstitutional: “By [fluoridating the water] the municipal authorities... arrogate to themselves the sole right to decide what medicine is good for the health of the water consumers, and thereby the municipal water system becomes a direct conduit for the transportation of medicine from the apothecary's pestle to the patient, without the latter's consent. Thus will the people be deprived of a very important part of their constitutional liberty under our republican form of government and the police state will be substituted for the police power of the state." - Justice Donworth, dissenting opinion  in KAUL vs. CITY OF CHEHALIS before Supreme Court of Washington (1954) 

 

Trial Judge who found CWF harmful:  "Over the course of five months (in 1978), the court held periodic hearings, which consisted of extensive expert testimony from as far away as England. At issue was the most recent time-trend study of Dr. Burk and Dr. Yiamouyiannis, which compared cancer mortality in ten cities which fluoridated their water systems with ten cities which did not fluoridate over a period of twenty-eight years from 1940 to 1968. The study concluded that there was a significant increase in cancer mortality in the fluoridated cities." - Judge John P. Flaherty, Chief Justice in the Supreme Court of PA (1996)

 

Trial Judge who found CWF harmful: “Nothing I have seen changes my view of the serious hazards occasioned by public fluoridation. To the contrary, what I have read convinces me all the more that in depth, serious, scientific effort should be undertaken before further expanding a questionable practice. Those who belittle critics of fluoridation do the public a mis-service, yet it seems in the face of strong, uncontradicted prima facie evidence, that is the tactic most often employed.” - Judge John P. Flaherty, Justice in the Supreme Court of PA (1988)

 

 It may be legal and it may be political, but there is nothing ethical, scientific or democratic about adding this poison to municipal water.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 305 of 1,248
If you believe the law is on your side bring a suit. The law is exactly what the judges say it is and so far the judges have ruled that adjusting fluoride ion concentration to be that associated with optimal oral health is a proper exercise of powers which Cities and Water Districts enjoy.

I invite you to bring a case if you believe otherwise.

Chuck
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 306 of 1,248

Dr. Chuck,

 

Science is factual, data, not endorsements.

 

You keep looking for endorsements and who is on which "team."   

 

Look at the facts, the data, rather than the people.

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 307 of 1,248

Dr. Johnny,

 

You are puzzled that I can't wrap my head around the safety of fluoridation.  

 

And I'm puzzled that you can't wrap your head around excess fluoride exposure.

 

If water fluoridation were the only source of fluoride exposure, I would not be so concerned.  

 

8 years ago NHANES reported 20% of adolescents had moderate/severe.  Two other National surveys have been done and dental fluorosis recorded, but not released.  All other data from these newer surveys have been released but not fluorosis.  I don't know why fluorosis data is being withheld, do you?  

 

Hundreds of thousands, millions are showing signs of excess fluoride exposure.  Where do you recommend a decrease in fluoride expsure?  

 

Toothpaste?  Topical has some benefit and is FDA approved.

Fluoride antibiotics?  Save lives

Fluoride pesticides? Reduces waste

Fluoride post-harvest fumigants?  Preservative

Fluoride from mechanically deboned meat?  Reduces processing cost. . . .

Fluoride in manufacturing?  I'm not sure that would be a significant reduction in exposure.

Fluoride in water?  Serves no other purpose than alleged caries reduction.  

 

HHS/PHS reduced fluoridation concentration because too many are ingesting too much fluoride.  

 

Yes, too much fluoride and many are still ingesting too much fluoride based on fluorosis and urine, serum, and bone fluoride concentrations. 

 

What source of fluoride do you recommend we reduce to reduce excess exposure?

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 308 of 1,248

That is correct. So what is your point?

San Diego held democratic elections and they are ignored by fluoridationists.

And the 7 pages of mostly dental officials praising fluoride ingestion are plagued with false statements and none of the sections are referenced.

The Mayo Clnic writer is wrong because fluorine as an element, F2,  does not exist in nature. Fluoride compounds do, but that does not include NaF or H2SiF6.

The opening claim is that fluoride remineralizes teeth. This is a common false notion. Normal teeth enamel contains no fluoride and is a hard crystalline form of hydroxyapatite. And also fluoride does not incorporate into enamel topically or systemically because enamel is too hard. One can force fluoride in by applying HF hydrofluoric acid, acidulated fluoride gels for example, which dissolves enamel and forms an abnormal structure and is not something to be desired. Bone hydroxyapatite of course is a different crystal form and readily incorporates fluoride in exchange for hydroxide when fluoridated water is consumed.

And the late Linus Pauling stopped promoting fluoridation and advocated vitamin D, which increases calcium absorption, for preventing tooth decay. Calcium builds strong teeth, not fluoride. (I was fortunate to have a chemustry class at UCSD from Pauling). So this 7 page list of undocumented claims is far out of date.

Other errors are so numerous that who would want to read all the corrections?

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 309 of 1,248
It's called a democratic society, Rich. Democracy.........Not like the party affiliation
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 310 of 1,248
I note you cite some obscure person in New Zealand. On the other side are just over 140 prestigious organizations and societies going on record that fluoridation prevents cavities, is important and is safe. America's Pediatricians have a convenient reference where many of these statements can be read: http://www.ilikemyteeth.org/fluoridation/why-fluoride/
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