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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 531 of 1,304

"Carry Anne"  your quote:  "Municipal votes and legislative action are not the places to decide medical treatment for my family. That decision belongs to the individual."

 

Response:  You are literally saying that the individual has the right to choose poorer oral health.  That would not be a rational decision by the individual.  Moreover, the individual does not have the right to impose his/her irrational beliefs upon his/her neighbors.  

 

You bring up UNESCO, Medical consent, Human Rights & Human Dignity, and of course your irrelevant citation of an SDWA statute that you have twisted out of context.

 

Medical Consent.  Looking through the lens of your slightly agitated worldview, this would be an example of your idea of a violation of Medical Consent:

 

I have a child who goes to public school.  That school fed my child milk with Vitamin D added.  That school never informed me that it would be feeding my child Vitamin D.  Using your logic, that school is guilty of violating my, and my child's right of informed medical consent.  

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Frequent Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 532 of 1,304

Richard, when you say things like this, I doubt you have ever read the SDWA.  Your quote:

 

"All water additives that are legalas described in the SDWA are those that actually purify water (remove debris, prevent corrosion, and sanitize water, etc.). "

 

It may surprise you, but there are very few additives which are described in the SDWA.  Did you know there is actually an additive which is NSF approved and is intended to treat Sodium Hypochlorite?  It neither sanatizes the water, removes debris, or prevents corrosion.  Nor is it described in the SDWA.  It is an additive to drinking water whose sole purpose is to prevent bleach from hardening up.  

 

So there is a phosphorous addive which treats bleach.  Show me that in the SDWA.

 

Your quote:  "The NSF labels fluosilicic acid hazardous waste . . "

 

That is a verifiable "untruth."  NSF says no such thing.  If so, please provide evidence of that.

 

Your quote from an earlier comment:  "And the suggestion is ridiculous that if one is opposed to fluoridation they should contact the "appropriate officials." There are no appropriate officials. The EPA  and the FDA both deny responsibility and liability for fluoridation and neither endorse it, but both do not oppose it."

 

We've been through this before.  EPA allows 4 parts per million of fluoride in drinking water.  That's a fact.  If someone were actually harmed by drinking water with 1 part per million of fluoride, that would be the fault of the EPA, because the EPA allows it.  And guess what.  People sue the EPA all the time.  

 

Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus 

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Frequent Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 533 of 1,304

 “When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.” - Thomas  Jefferson

 

Municipal votes and legislative action are not the places to decide medical treatment for my family. That decision belongs to the individual. But since fluoridationists have used politics and the doctrine of police power to strip me of my human right to sovereignty over my own body and right to make my own medical decisions, either the legislature or the courts need to take action. I recommend reading UNESCO on Medical Consent. Here are a few excerpts from UNESCO and others.

UNESCO Mandate: “set universal standards in the field of bioethics with due regard for human dignity and human rights and freedoms, in the spirit of cultural pluralism inherent in bioethics.” - October 2003, 32 C/Res. 24  

 

Medical Consent: ”Any preventive, diagnostic and therapeutic medical intervention is only to be carried out with the prior, free and informed consent of the person concerned, based on adequate information. The consent should, where appropriate, be express and may be withdrawn by the person concerned at any time and for any reason without disadvantage or prejudice.” - UNESCO on Medical Consent in Bioethics and Human Rights, Article 6 (2005)

 

Medical Consent: “In no case should a collective community agreement or the consent of a community leader or other authority substitute for an individual’s informed consent.” - UNESCO documents on Medical Consent in Bioethics and Human Rights, Article 6 (2010)

 

Human Dignity & Human Rights: ”The interests and welfare of the individual should have priority over the sole interest of science or society.”  - UNESCO documents on Medical Consent in Bioethics and Human Rights, Article 3 (2005)

 

UNESCO on Discrimination: “No individual or group should be discriminated against or stigmatized on any grounds, in violation of human dignity, human rights and fundamental freedoms.”  - UNESCO documents on Medical Consent in Bioethics and Human Rights, Article 11 (2005)

 

UNESCO on Environmental Duty: “Due regard is to be given to the interconnection between human beings and other forms of life, to the importance of appropriate access and utilization of biological and genetic resources, to respect for traditional knowledge and to the role of human beings in the protection of the environment, the biosphere and biodiversity.” - UNESCO documents in Bioethics and  Protection of the Environment, the Biosphere and Biodiversity, Article 17 (2005)

 

SDWA: “Since first enacted in 1974, the Safe Drinking Water Act has stated that “[n]o national primary drinking water regulation may require the addition of any substance for preventive health care purposes unrelated to contamination of drinking water.” -  SDWA (P.L. 93-523)

 

US Government on Bioethics: “All participants in an experimental program should be informed in advance of all features of the treatment and measurement process that they will be experiencing that would subject them to any obvious risk or jeopardy and that would be likely to influence their decision to participate in the program or their conduct as participants in the program." - The 1979 Belmont Report on The National Research Act of 1974 

 

Medical Treatment: “The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential ... The duty and responsibility for ascertaining the quality of the consent rests upon each individual who initiates, directs or engages in the experiment. It is a personal duty and responsibility which may not be delegated to another with impunity ... During the course of the experiment the human subject should be at liberty to bring the experiment to an end if he has reached the physical or mental state where continuation of the experiment seems to him to be impossible." - Nuremberg Code (1947)

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 534 of 1,304
The lack of opposition with and without government is not really a puzzle, the truth is fluoridation has such wide spread professional support because it safely simply prevents cavities.
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Re: Another un-answer to my questions

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Message 535 of 1,304
Dr. Osmunson, are we clear that you believe community water fluoridation is the ethical equivalent of the Tuskegee Syphilis study?
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Regular Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 536 of 1,304

In many cases higher courts have made improper decisions while lower courts decided more carefully. Even the Supreme Court has made decisions that contradicted earlier Supreme Court decisions. As for fluoridation, ingested fluoride does alter the chemistry of the human body while not even being able ironically to penetrate into the teeth enamel matrix. There is no court ruling one way or appeal another way that changes this. Fluoridaiotn is a useless harmful cause.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 537 of 1,304
Actually this is not the case. Cases which are overturned on appeal are not "very successful." No case has survived the scrutiny of appeal. It is no surprise that lower court make mistakes, The purpose of appeal courts is to correct errors.

The courtroom is not the place to "decide" complex science. Systematic reviews where experts for the panel are selected for a spectrum of important scientific skills and there is ample budget to collect and consider all the scientific literature is the appropriate forum.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 538 of 1,304

We are going around in circles. Water additives have already been discussed. All water additives that are legalas described in the SDWA are those that actually purify water (remove debris, prevent corrosion, and sanitize water, etc.). But the one substance that is not a legal additive is fluoride. Fluoride is the only chemical added into water for the purpose of treating humans. It does not purify water.  The NSF labels fluosilicic acid hazardous waste as a water purifying agent pass inspection and to gain favor with skeptics so that it appears legal to add into water. Fluoride has zero ability to purify water. It is added to elevate the blood concentration of the non-nutrient contaminant fluoride ion in consumers.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Frequent Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 539 of 1,304

When I hear fluoridationists using opponents language, I'm reminded of the classic comic-strip villian scenario where the super-villian assumes the likeness of the hero in order to confuse the public.

 

Fluoridationist arguments are all logical fallacies and worse. For example: 

EuropeFallacy.jpgNumerical Deceit

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 540 of 1,304
AARP must choose whether to believe the many systematic reviews as well as about 150 prestigious organizations and groups who advocate for fluoridation as important, safe and effective in preventing Cavities. Here's the list from the Quebec National Institute of Public health (alphabetic as long as the allowed post).
http://www.inspq.qc.ca/pdf/publications/705-WaterFluoration.pdf p 47


Academy of Dentistry International
Academy of General Dentistry
Academy for Sports Dentistry
Alzheimer's Association
America's Health Insurance Plans
American Academy of Family Physicians
American Academy of Nurse Practitioners
American Academy of Oral and Maxillofacial Pathology
American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Academy of Pediatrie Dentistry
American Academy of Periodontology
American Academy of Physician Assistants
American Association for Community Dental Programs
American Association for Dental Research
American Association for Health Education
American Association for the Advancement of Science
Water Fluoridation: An Analysis of the Health Benefits and Risks
Institut national de santé publique du Québec 37
American Association of Endodontists
American Association of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons
American Association of Orthodontists
American Association of Public Health Dentistry
American Association of Women Dentists
American Cancer Society
American College of Dentists
American College of Physicians-American Society of Internal Medicine
American College of Preventive Medicine
American College of Prosthodontists
American Council on Science and Health
American Dental Assistants Association
American Dental Association
American Dental Education Association
American Dental Hygienists' Association
American Dietetic Association
American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations
American Hospital Association
American Institute of Nutrition
American Legislative Exchange Council
American Medical Association
American Nurses Association
American Osteopathic Association
American Pharmaceutical Association
American Pharmacists Association
American Public Health Association
American School Health Association
American Society for Clinical Nutrition
American Society for Nutritional Sciences
American Student Dental Association
American Veterinary Medical Association
American Water Works Association
Water Fluoridation: An Analysis of the Health Benefits and Risks
38 Institut national de santé publique du Québec
Association for Academic Health Centers
Association of American Medical Colleges
Association of Clinicians for the Underserved
Association of Maternal and Child Health Programs
Association of State and Territorial Dental Directors
Association of State and Territorial Health Officials
Association of State and Territorial Public Health
Australian National Health and Medical Research Council NHMRC
Australian Dental Association ADA
Australian Health Ministers' Conference
Australia New South Wales Department of Health
Nutrition Directors
British Dental Association
British Fluoridation Society
British Medical Association
Center for Science in the Public Interest
Child Welfare League of America
Consumer Federation of America
Children's Dental Health Project
Consumer Federation of America
Council of State and Territorial Epidemiologists
Delta Dental Plans Association
European Organization for Caries Research
Fédération Dentaire Internationale FDI
Federation of American Hospitals
Food and Nutrition Board
Great Britain Ministry of Health
Health Insurance Association of America
Hispanic Dental Association
Indian Dental Association U.S.A.
Institute of Medicine
International Association for Dental Research
Water Fluoridation: An Analysis of the Health Benefits and Risks
Institut national de santé publique du Québec 39
International Association for Orthodontics
International College of Dentists
March of Dimes Birth Defects Foundation
Mayo Clinic
National Academy of Science
National Association of Community Health Centers
National Association of County and City Health Officials
National Association of Dental Assistants
National Association of Local Boards of Health
National Association of Social Workers
National Cancer Institute
National Confectioners Association
National Council Against Health Fraud
National Dental Assistants Association
National Dental Association
National Dental Hygienists' Association
National Down Syndrome Congress
National Down Syndrome Society
National Eating Disorders Association
National Foundation of Dentistry for the Handicapped
National Health Council
National Head Start Association
National Health Law Program
National Healthy Mothers, Healthy Babies Coalition
New Zealand Ministry of Health
Oral Health America
Pan American Health Organization
Public Health Association of Australia
Robert Wood Johnson Foundation
Royal College of Physicians London
Society for Public Health Education
Society of American Indian Dentists
Special Care Dentistry
The Children's Health Fund
The Dental Health Foundation of California
U.S. Department of Defense
U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs
U.S. Public Health Service
U.S. Surgeon General
Health Resources and Services Administration HRSA
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention CDC
Food and Drug Administration FDA
Indian Health Service
Health Resources and Services Administration HRSA
National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research NIDCR
World Federation of Orthodontists
World Health Organization
Quebec Order of dentists
Quebec order of dental hygienists
Quebec college of physicians
Québec Association of Pediatricians
Quebec order of pharmacists
Quebec Federation of family physicians
Coalition Of Physicians for Social Justice
McGill University Faculty of Dentistry
Montreal Public Health Department
Quebec association of public health dentists
Montreal Children’s Hospital Council of Community Pediatricians
Montreal Children’ Hospital Child Development Program
Quebec dental academy
St-Justine Hospital department of pediatics
St-Justine Hospital university center
Table de concertation des hygienistes dentaires en sante communautaire des régions
Montreal, Laval, Laurentides et Lanaudiere
Montreal Research Centre on Social Inequalities in Health
University of Montreal department of social and preventive medicine
Dental association for disabled people
Quebec department of health and social services
Quebec department of environment
Canadian Association of Dental Public Health
Canadian Dental Association
Canadian Dental Hygienist Association
Canadian Medical Association
Canadian Nurses Association
Canadian Pediatric Society
Canadian Public Health Association
Health Canada
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