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Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Dr. Saueheber - - you make a number of allegations which if true, surely would have actionable legal consequences.

The current EPA is clearly "mindful of the public health significance of reducing the incidence of dental caries in the U.S. population."  This quotation is from the EPA rejection of the FAN petition to apply section 21 of the Toxic Substances Control Act to "prohibit the purposeful addition of fluoridation chemicals to U.S. water supplies."

The undeniable fact is that in 2014 74.7% of US citizens on community water supplies drink fluoridated water.  Quite obviously none of your points have ever successfully challenged this very important public health program in any court room.  No state mandated fluoridation obligation has ever been withdrawn for these reasons.

Since you believe fluoridation to be illegal, my advise is for you to bring suit against New York City.  If you were to prevail, one action would cease fluoridation in our largest city.  Isn't it a bit inappropriate to argue legal views which, to the extent they have been formally contested, have always been rejected by US courts?

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The FDA has never approved any fluoride compound for ingestion. For example toothpaste boxes have warning signs not to swallow.
But on the other hand the FDA has not entered into the practice of ordering a ban on fluoride ingestion, and hence do not ban bottled water that may contain it at 1 ppm or less.
FDA officials in 1945 were poised to oppose water fluoridation trials in grand Rapids but were afraid that such opposition might impede the war effort (Bryson, The Fluoride Deception).
The FDA over the years has written that fluoride ingestion is not FDA approved (with the full endorsement to do so that is implied with such approval). No controlled human clinical trials have ever been completed or submitted to the FDA to solicit approval.
Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Your opinion is opposite to that in the reports prepared by teams of distinguished scientifoc experts who are selected on the basis of their expertise to look at all scientific sides of issues. These systematic review panels debate the evidence and draft a final report and recommendations.

Since the 2011 California Carcinogen Identification Committee decision by unanimous vote that fluoride does not cause cancer in any concentration. additional systematic reviews finding no risk to cancer from fluoridation has included the Australian National Health and Medical REsearch Council, the Ireland Health Research Board, the American Academy of Family Physicians, the Royal Society of New Zealand, the HHS Community Preventive services Task Force and the European Scientific Committee on Health and Environmental Risks. Perhaps I've missed a few.

The public can have high confidence in the evaluation of the science that occurs through such processes, whatever their findings might be. In the case of community water fluoridation, every such panel of experts that has met to review and critique the evidence has concluded that community water fluoridation is safe and effective.

C. Haynie, M.D.

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The point is that taken as a whole the literature on fluoride and cancer is held by expert panel reviews to be unrelated.

Because hydrofluorosilicic acid and its salts completely and irreversibly dissociate in water, there is no need to study that because fluoridated water has only fluoride ions. It has been conclusively proven by the Nuclear Magnetic Resonance work of Finney et al (2006) (Reexamination of hydrofluorosilicic hydrolysis by 19F NMR and pH measurement) that there is complete decomposition of fluorosilicate species at neutral pH values on dilution in water. They also showed the presence of surviving fluorosilicate species at low pH values (3 and below) which is irrelevant for water treatment which by quality regulation is neutral pH..

It is disappointing that fluoridation opponents continually demand specific study of hydrofluorosilicic acid in drinking water when the complete decomposition and Finney's NMR study has been explained many many times. HFSA components are simply not in a simple equilibrium relationship following hydrolysis. One cannot study something that doesn't exist.

C. Haynie, M.D.
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It is truly horrific that these noted governmental agencies and some doctors, who are not research scientists and who have no time to truly study fluoridation, are enforcing this practice of dumping industrial waste into the public water supply. Here are the CDC links to NIOSH specifications of hydrofluorosilicic acid and sodiumhexafluorosilicate, which are the most commonly used fluoridation compounds in the United States: 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ipcsneng/neng1233.html

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ipcsneng/neng1243.html

 

If any of these ‘enforcing’ doctors actually understood what these chemicals are, then this crime against the masses is on them! 

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Thank you all for participating in this thread. I understand that you all are passionate about the topic, however, please remember to be respectful and honor the TOS and community guidelines. Continuing to violate TOS and community guidelines will lead to this thread being closed.

 

AARPSneed

AARP Moderation Team

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To the AARP moderation team: Please don’t close this thread! There is much true and good information here regardless of the bullying by some trolls. This conversation must be open and public, because historically the entire fluoridation scheme has been done in secrecy, without any true informed consent or public discourse. Also, if every threat is closed because of bad behavior, then many would know how to manipulate any thread. This stifles free speech! It would be a wiser policy to wipe out the comments that are there just to attack another commenter (i.e. ad hominem) and not focus on the issue. Punishing everyone due to troll attack is very unfair and gives the trolls exactly what they want, which is to stop public discussion about this issue. Thus, please do not close this thread!  

Trusted Contributor

It would be a shame to have this thread closed. There is much true and good information here regardless of the bullying by some trolls. If every threat is closed because of bad behavior, the opponents would know how to manipulate any thread. It would be a wiser policy to wipe out the comments that are there just to attack another commenter (i.e. ad hominem) and not focus on the issue. Thus, please do not close it! 

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I  certainly have no problem with this thread being closed. For  the benefit of your readers who seek accurate information on this healthcare issue, I am simply providing evidenced information to correct misinformation posted on your site  by fluoridation opponents, who do so all over the internet.

 

 

Steven D. Slott, DDS

 

 

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The NAM upper intake level for fluoride in infants up to 1 year old is 0.7.- 0.9 mg per day. And in children up to 8 years old is 2.2 mg/day.  If these were actually followed, then fluoridated water would need to be avoided since 1 mg of fluoride is ingested simly from drinking and eating 1 liter of water if it were the only fluoride source. Soups, stews, etc. and water-based drinks including formula, etc. provide more fluoride daily than allowed. The desired level should be zero since it is not a mineral nutrient and in fact is a contaminant of the bloodstream. It is called an "allowance" rather than a requirement for a reason--it shouldn't be there at all----we are not designed to need it. 

 

And these limits merely help avoid significant dental fluorosis in childhood and crippling skeletal fluorosis after lifetime drinking and eating. The limits do not prevent proven effects on developing brain or the formation of bone of poor quality that fluoride ingestion causes at any concentration. There is no blood fluoride level low enough to prevent incorporation into bone, which begins the process of formation of poor quality bone.  Read the Newbruynn text writen by a fluoridation promoter. Fluoridation of bone is progressive through life and from drinking water leads to levels in bone that cause bone pain and weakening.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Just terriffic, a bunch of YouTubes to justify opposition to what the CDC considers one of the great accomplishments in public health in the 20th Century.

 

Here's a systematic review from the Community Preventive Services Task force published in a peer reviewed journal .. more worthwhile than an infinity of YouTube videos.

 

American Journal of Public Health, June 2016 Volume 50, Issue 6, Pages 790-796.  Economic Evaluation of Community Water Fluoridation:  A Community Guide Systematic Review.  Tao Ran, Sajal K. Chattopadhyay.  The Community Preventive Services Task Force, Community Guide Branch, Division of Public Health Information Dissemination, CDC, Atlanta, Georgia
http://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(15)00691-1/abstract?cc=y=

 

 

Periodic Contributor

Fluoridationists love to tear apart any study that dares to taint fluoride in any way. I think we can all do that with any study because science is never settled.

 

I think it's time to look at the studies which gave birth to fluoride use for dental decay

 

The Kingston/Newburgh; Grand Rapids/Muskegon and others were the first experimental cities used to test the hypothesis that ingested fluoride via the water supply safety reduced tooth decay.  Both Newburgh and Grand Rapids were fluoridated.  The trials were set to last from 10 - 15 years but were cut short after only about five years - before the teeth of those born into the experiment had even erupted.  Newburgh was the only city to look at health effects.  Preschoolers and adults weren't studied and long term effects never considered.  

 

Dr. Hayne, Slott and Johnson - please tell us why those early fluoridation studies are valid by today's standards - or even by the standards of 1945 when they began.

 

Thank you for your consideration

Trusted Contributor

So the DOCTORS AND DENTISTS who are listed there on YouTube....are no longer credible BECAUSE they are on YouTube??  Is THAT what you're saying??   Hahahahaha......  Ya, that makes ALL KINDS OF SENSE doesn't it??

Ya know what?? We should go after their licenses because somebody interviewed them on YouTube.....HOW DARE THEY ALLOW THEIR INTERVIEWS BE SHOWN THERE?? (sarcasm intended)

Maybe someday someone will interview YOU and post it on YouTube....then the rest of society will know you for what a "farce" you are....BECAUSE YOU WERE PUT ON YOUTUBE.......RIGHT???

(That IS what you're saying, you know).

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