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Silver Conversationalist
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 481 of 1,248
Actually this is not the case. Cases which are overturned on appeal are not "very successful." No case has survived the scrutiny of appeal. It is no surprise that lower court make mistakes, The purpose of appeal courts is to correct errors.

The courtroom is not the place to "decide" complex science. Systematic reviews where experts for the panel are selected for a spectrum of important scientific skills and there is ample budget to collect and consider all the scientific literature is the appropriate forum.
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Regular Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 482 of 1,248

We are going around in circles. Water additives have already been discussed. All water additives that are legalas described in the SDWA are those that actually purify water (remove debris, prevent corrosion, and sanitize water, etc.). But the one substance that is not a legal additive is fluoride. Fluoride is the only chemical added into water for the purpose of treating humans. It does not purify water.  The NSF labels fluosilicic acid hazardous waste as a water purifying agent pass inspection and to gain favor with skeptics so that it appears legal to add into water. Fluoride has zero ability to purify water. It is added to elevate the blood concentration of the non-nutrient contaminant fluoride ion in consumers.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Frequent Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 483 of 1,248

When I hear fluoridationists using opponents language, I'm reminded of the classic comic-strip villian scenario where the super-villian assumes the likeness of the hero in order to confuse the public.

 

Fluoridationist arguments are all logical fallacies and worse. For example: 

EuropeFallacy.jpgNumerical Deceit

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 484 of 1,248
AARP must choose whether to believe the many systematic reviews as well as about 150 prestigious organizations and groups who advocate for fluoridation as important, safe and effective in preventing Cavities. Here's the list from the Quebec National Institute of Public health (alphabetic as long as the allowed post).
http://www.inspq.qc.ca/pdf/publications/705-WaterFluoration.pdf p 47


Academy of Dentistry International
Academy of General Dentistry
Academy for Sports Dentistry
Alzheimer's Association
America's Health Insurance Plans
American Academy of Family Physicians
American Academy of Nurse Practitioners
American Academy of Oral and Maxillofacial Pathology
American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Academy of Pediatrie Dentistry
American Academy of Periodontology
American Academy of Physician Assistants
American Association for Community Dental Programs
American Association for Dental Research
American Association for Health Education
American Association for the Advancement of Science
Water Fluoridation: An Analysis of the Health Benefits and Risks
Institut national de santé publique du Québec 37
American Association of Endodontists
American Association of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons
American Association of Orthodontists
American Association of Public Health Dentistry
American Association of Women Dentists
American Cancer Society
American College of Dentists
American College of Physicians-American Society of Internal Medicine
American College of Preventive Medicine
American College of Prosthodontists
American Council on Science and Health
American Dental Assistants Association
American Dental Association
American Dental Education Association
American Dental Hygienists' Association
American Dietetic Association
American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations
American Hospital Association
American Institute of Nutrition
American Legislative Exchange Council
American Medical Association
American Nurses Association
American Osteopathic Association
American Pharmaceutical Association
American Pharmacists Association
American Public Health Association
American School Health Association
American Society for Clinical Nutrition
American Society for Nutritional Sciences
American Student Dental Association
American Veterinary Medical Association
American Water Works Association
Water Fluoridation: An Analysis of the Health Benefits and Risks
38 Institut national de santé publique du Québec
Association for Academic Health Centers
Association of American Medical Colleges
Association of Clinicians for the Underserved
Association of Maternal and Child Health Programs
Association of State and Territorial Dental Directors
Association of State and Territorial Health Officials
Association of State and Territorial Public Health
Australian National Health and Medical Research Council NHMRC
Australian Dental Association ADA
Australian Health Ministers' Conference
Australia New South Wales Department of Health
Nutrition Directors
British Dental Association
British Fluoridation Society
British Medical Association
Center for Science in the Public Interest
Child Welfare League of America
Consumer Federation of America
Children's Dental Health Project
Consumer Federation of America
Council of State and Territorial Epidemiologists
Delta Dental Plans Association
European Organization for Caries Research
Fédération Dentaire Internationale FDI
Federation of American Hospitals
Food and Nutrition Board
Great Britain Ministry of Health
Health Insurance Association of America
Hispanic Dental Association
Indian Dental Association U.S.A.
Institute of Medicine
International Association for Dental Research
Water Fluoridation: An Analysis of the Health Benefits and Risks
Institut national de santé publique du Québec 39
International Association for Orthodontics
International College of Dentists
March of Dimes Birth Defects Foundation
Mayo Clinic
National Academy of Science
National Association of Community Health Centers
National Association of County and City Health Officials
National Association of Dental Assistants
National Association of Local Boards of Health
National Association of Social Workers
National Cancer Institute
National Confectioners Association
National Council Against Health Fraud
National Dental Assistants Association
National Dental Association
National Dental Hygienists' Association
National Down Syndrome Congress
National Down Syndrome Society
National Eating Disorders Association
National Foundation of Dentistry for the Handicapped
National Health Council
National Head Start Association
National Health Law Program
National Healthy Mothers, Healthy Babies Coalition
New Zealand Ministry of Health
Oral Health America
Pan American Health Organization
Public Health Association of Australia
Robert Wood Johnson Foundation
Royal College of Physicians London
Society for Public Health Education
Society of American Indian Dentists
Special Care Dentistry
The Children's Health Fund
The Dental Health Foundation of California
U.S. Department of Defense
U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs
U.S. Public Health Service
U.S. Surgeon General
Health Resources and Services Administration HRSA
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention CDC
Food and Drug Administration FDA
Indian Health Service
Health Resources and Services Administration HRSA
National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research NIDCR
World Federation of Orthodontists
World Health Organization
Quebec Order of dentists
Quebec order of dental hygienists
Quebec college of physicians
Québec Association of Pediatricians
Quebec order of pharmacists
Quebec Federation of family physicians
Coalition Of Physicians for Social Justice
McGill University Faculty of Dentistry
Montreal Public Health Department
Quebec association of public health dentists
Montreal Children’s Hospital Council of Community Pediatricians
Montreal Children’ Hospital Child Development Program
Quebec dental academy
St-Justine Hospital department of pediatics
St-Justine Hospital university center
Table de concertation des hygienistes dentaires en sante communautaire des régions
Montreal, Laval, Laurentides et Lanaudiere
Montreal Research Centre on Social Inequalities in Health
University of Montreal department of social and preventive medicine
Dental association for disabled people
Quebec department of health and social services
Quebec department of environment
Canadian Association of Dental Public Health
Canadian Dental Association
Canadian Dental Hygienist Association
Canadian Medical Association
Canadian Nurses Association
Canadian Pediatric Society
Canadian Public Health Association
Health Canada
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Regular Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 485 of 1,248

And why not tell the more complete story? It is hoped that AARP staff and all readers understand that there have been many very successful legal suits against fluoridation. Many cities have halted fluoridation because it is indeed illegal to add dental treatment chemicals (allowed in toothpaste but designed not to be swallowed) into public drinking water.

In Escondido it was ruled that fluoridation alters the bodily chemistry of consumers. In Pennsylvania and in Texas it was ruled that fluoridated water consumption increases morbidity in those with cancer. In other cities various legal rulings against fluoridation have occurred even though in some those rulings were overturned by other courts on appeal. 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 486 of 1,248
The addition of water additives is a standard, important and well accepted component of proper drinking water utilities. Fluoride is but one of the over 40 water additives available to utilities. By your standard all are "additional contaminants."
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 487 of 1,248
No, America would not expected to be and is not cavity-free.

This is a classic example of the Straw Man logical fallacy.

Fluoridation is not a silver bullet cure but it does greatly decrease the cavity burden a population must bear. 2/3rd of the operations for mouth fulls of rotten teeth preschool children must have are avoided. The economic return on the fluoridation investment in lower dental bills varies between communities from 12% to over 13,000%.

References furnished if anyone desires.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 488 of 1,248

I hope that the AARP staff and other uncommitted folks reading community water fluoridation opponents' highly referenced interpretation of various laws, federal responsibilities and water  and toxin oversight bureaucracies clearly understand that the Fluoride Action Network and its allies have zero successful legal challenges.  

This is despite six figure yearly fundraising, despite an in-house attorney (Michael Connett) and most importantly despite their impassioned conviction fluoridation is both illegal and immoral.

Zero . . .

 

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Re: Another un-answer to my questions

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Message 489 of 1,248

 

 

Bill, No! 

 

I am amazed and astounded that you believe governmental agencies (and apparently the WHO, AMA, ADA, AAP and other science and health organizations) today are following the same unethical, immoral behavior exhibited in the Tuskegee Syphilis study?

 

Now answer my question, modified with your most recent beliefs.

 

Modified Question) Do you believe that ALL the science and health experts in the world who accept the scientific consensus that community water fluoridation (CWF) is safe and effective (or who don’t publically accept the anti-F opinions),, don't think for themselves … No conspiracy….  Simply blind obedience to tradition and a lack of scientific critical thinking.”, “think fluoride is a magic element”, haveseriously tarnished” credibility, “don’t protect the public”, arelemmings, followers, part of a herd, not scientistsandNone reviewed the science.  All the so called ‘scientific’ organizations were all puppets of each other with fluoridation and exhibit the morality of those responsible for the Tuskegee Syphilis study.”?

 

For those just reading these comments, the question above is based on Bill’s previous accusations – in his own words.  It is obvious he believes those charges apply to the specific organizations mentioned (and presumably their members).  I am simply asking him if he applies the same explanation to all of the other organizations that publically recognize the benefits of community water fluoridation and their members who don’t publically support the anti-F opinions as well.  Since Bill made the claims in his own words, if these are “such loaded questions”, then he loaded them.

(08-19-2018 02:18 AM) “The CDC simply reacts to the ADA and they don't think for themselves or review the research.

(08-19-2018 07:15 PM) “CDC, ADA and proponents of fluoridation think fluoride is a magic element unaffected by other chemicals, everyone benefits and everyone needs more and no one is at risk.  That kind of simplistic thinking might be good for first grade, but not science.”

(07-09-2018 09:09 PM) the “CDC references the ADA and AAP, and the ADA and AAP reference each other and the CDC.  Circular referencing.”and  “All the so called "scientific" organizations were all puppets of each other with fluoridation.  None reviewed the science.” and “the credibility of those so called ‘scientific’ organizations [AAP, ADA, CDC] has been seriously tarnished.  They do not protect the publicThey are lemmings, followers, part of a herd, not scientists.”  and “They were silent because they never looked at the science.”, and “Yes, they are the best in their field and experts, but not in fluoridation

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Frequent Social Butterfly
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Re: Another un-answer to my questions

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Message 490 of 1,248

Randy,

I hope you did not treat your high school students with such loaded questions and expect unreasonable answer.   Your questions are not "Yes" or "No" questions.  

 

Let me turn the question around to you.  .

 

Q. Do you support the US Public Health Service and the US Centers for disease in all of their positions and actions including the Tuskegee Syphilus study https://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/timeline.htm on African Americans without their consent, and are you an anti-science person who believes in conspiracies by government agencies harming the public?  Yes or No.

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

 

 

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