Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

[CarryAnne]

“The evidence that fluoride is more harmful than beneficial is now overwhelming… fluoride may be destroying our bones, our teeth, and our overall health.” - Dr. Hardy Limeback,  former President of Canadian ADA, Head of Preventive Dentistry at Univ of Toronto, 2006 National Research Council Scientist (2007)

The 2006 National Research Council on Fluoride in Drinking Water commented to the EPA that fluoridation at 1 ppm can be anticipated to be harmful for those with reduced renal function and the elderly. The NRC confirmed that fluoride not excreted by kidneys builds up in bones, resulting in arthritic pain and increased brittleness. However, there were no EPA studies on the whole health impacts of fluoridated water on susceptible population such as kidney patients, children, those with prolonged disease or the elderly. There still aren’t. 

However, there is mounting science from other sources that “optimally fluoridated” water, which is known to cause varying degrees of dental fluorosis in 58% of Black American adolescents and 36% of White American adolescents, is causing subtle deficits in ability to remember or focus. That same “optimal level” has also been proved in a 2014 study as being nephrotoxic in rats with chronic kidney disease. Chronic kidney disease (CKD) affects approximately 15% of Americans, although CKD is quadruple the rate in Black Americans, and predictably worse in older Americans. 

Perhaps the most horrifying part of the story of fluoridation is that not only is at least 50% of every drop of fluoride that has passed the lips of a Baby Boomer permanently stored in bones, fluoride isn't the only poison in packages of fluoride that originate as the waste product of aluminum an phosphate industry. 100% of the fluoride sampled in a 2014 study was contaminated with aluminum; arsenic and lead were other common contaminants. In other words, fluoridated water serves as a delivery system for aluminum and lead into our bones and our brains. As we all know, aluminum is associated with Alzheimers in adults, and lead is associated with learning disabilities in children. Approximately 15% of the population who is sensitive to chemicals cite inability to think clearly and overwhelming fatigue as symptoms of exposure to fluoridated water. 

Our generation was part of a great human experiment. It may have had noble intentions based on the faulty hypothesis that  drinking fluoridated water prevented cavities. It is now known that any perceived benefits of fluoride are from tooth brushing.  Our grandchildren are the third generation in this travesty. I suggest we all DEMAND the AARP stand up for us and our grandchildren by issuing a strong position paper calling for the cessation of water fluoridation. 

SCIENCE REFERENCES

1. 2014 in Toxicology. Effect of water fluoridation on the development of medial vascular calcification in uremic rats. (“Optimal levels” worsen kidney function😞 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24561004
    
2. 2015  in Neurotoxicology and Teratology. Association of lifetime exposure to fluoride and cognitive functions in Chinese children: A pilot study.  (Children with visible dental fluorosis perform less well on memory tasks, correlating with the degree of severity of their fluorosis. One of a series of human and animal studies with the same consistent findings.😞 
1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25446012  
2. http://braindrain.dk/2014/12/mottled-fluoride-debate/ 
   
   
3. 2014 in Physiology and Behavior. Fluoride exposure during development affects both cognition and emotion in mice. (Measurable behavioral changes😞 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24184405
   
   
4. 2014 in International Journal of Occupational and Environmental Health. A new perspective on metals and other contaminants in fluoridation chemicals. (All samples of fluoride are contaminated with aluminum, plus other contaminants like arsenic, lead and barium); 
1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24999851
2. http://momsagainstfluoridation.org/sites/default/files/Mullenix%202014-2-2.pdf
   
   
5. 2014 in Scientific World Journal. Water Fluoridation: A Critical Review of the Physiological Effects of Ingested Fluoride as a Public Health Intervention. (Health risks and cost don't justify minimal and questionable dental benefit.):  http://www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2014/293019/

RACIAL INEQUITY (FOIA)

Here are three Oct 2014 news articles on the content of the Freedom of Information Act documents. Rev. Andrew Young, former UN ambassador has pursued them with the CDC, but to little effect. Civil Rights leaders have been calling for an end to community water fluoridation (CWF) since 2011. 

• 1. Black Americans disproportionately harmed: http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/health-care/item/19317-feds-blacks-suffer-most-from-fluoride-fl...
• 2. CDC, ADA and Pew inappropriate relationships: http://benswann.com/do-newly-released-emails-reveal-conflict-of-interest-between-the-cdc-and-the-ada...
• 3. Kidneys, Civil Rights & Ralph Nader: http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2014/10/428383.shtml

2015 LEGAL ARGUMENT (GROSS DISPROPORTIONALITY) 

There is a legal initiative in Peel, Ontario (pop 1.3m) to remove fluoride from the water supply based on the principle of gross disproportionality, i.e. marginal benefit does not justify great risk of harm. There is also a political effort afoot in Canadian govt to mandate fluoridation and thereby make the legal argument moot. I suggest this document is well-worth printing.  http://fluoridealert.org/wp-content/uploads/peel.june2014.pdf

• a. The first 19 pages of this document is about the legal strategy. It includes summary of US legal cases that found water fluoridation harmful to the public, but legal under US "police power" mandate.
• b. Starting on page 20 is a devastating affidavit by Dr. Kathleen Thiessen, NAS/NRC scientist and international expert in risk assessment. Very readable summary of science indicating harm to populations in “optimally” fluoridated communities. 

POPULATION WITH LOW CHEMICAL THRESHOLD

1. In excess of 25% of previously healthy Gulf War Veterans have Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, which includes sensitivity to fluoride. See: http://www.va.gov/rac-gwvi/docs/committee_documents/gwiandhealthofgwveterans_rac-gwvireport_2008.pdf 
1. EXCERPT: “It is well established that some people are more vulnerable to adverse effects of certain  chemicals than others, due to variability in biological processes that neutralize those chemicals, and clear them from the body.” - Research Advisory Committee on Gulf War Veterans’ Illnesses 2008 
2. Affidavit of Dr. Hans Moolenburgh: https://fluorideinformationaustralia.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/affidavit-moolenburgh.pdf
1. Except: “As a summary of our research, we are now convinced that fluoridation of the water supplies causes a low grade intoxication of the whole population, with only the approximately 5% most sensitive persons showing acute symptoms.The whole population being subjected to low grade poisoning means that their immune systems are constantly overtaxed. With all the other poisonous influences in our environment, this can hasten health calamities.” 
3. PubMed Listed Studies on immune system response: 
1. a. Fluoride makes allergies worse, rats (1990): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1707853 
2. b. Fluoride makes allergies worse, in vitro (1999): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9892783
3. c. Immune system of the gut (2010): http://www.hindawi.com/journals/iji/2010/823710/ 
4. d. ASIA Syndrome, adjuvant impact (2011): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20708902
5. e. Gene predicts fluoride sensitivity (2015): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25556215
6. f.  Brain has an immune system (2015): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26030524

AARP - STAND UP on our behalf! 

[CarryAnne · Accepted solution]

 Dr. Joel Bohemier’s presentation to the Commissioners of Collier County, FL  includes quotes for EPA, CDC and others under oath from TSCA trial depositions. This presentation was part of the Commissioners deliberation that resulted in its unanimous vote to end fluoridation last week: https://unite.live/widgets/4142/recording/player#  

It is in the hands of Judge Chen, now, but I've got to say that the closing on Feb. 20th was odd.

Not only did Judge Chen pepper both attorneys with questions, the EPA attorneys seemed to admit that fluoride exposure at doses consistent with water concentration of 1.5 ppm, 2 ppm and 4 ppm had been proven to result in lower IQ per studies of mom-child pairs performed in Canadian and other communities across the world. They admitted this despite the official policy of the U.S. EPA stating there is no harm up to 4 ppm (the actionable threshold for remediation) other than mild cosmetic dental fluorosis (tooth staining) at or above 2 ppm. The Canadian government has an actionable threshold of 1.5 ppm which is consistent with the WHO guidelines. 

When Judge Chen challenged the EPA that per both plaintiff and defense witnesses, shouldn't there be a protective uncertainty or safety factor of at least ten to protect consumers applied to 2 or 4 which would protect teeth from moderate dental fluorosis which a recent Health Canada is concern at 1.56 ppm and from severe dental fluorosis which the 2006 National Research Council (NRC) said was an adverse health risk at 4 ppm which would also protect brains, EPA Defense attorney said that would be an interesting thought experiment, but Plaintiff attorney didn't argue about dental fluorosis (which by the way is positively associated with lower IQ and learning disabilities) so the judge could not legally do so. Frankly, it almost seemed like the EPA attorneys were threatening the Judge. 

Judge Chen pushed back about EPA "Health Protective Assumption" guidelines, but EPA insisted that the Judge must not act based on science or consumer protection, but on strict interpretation of statutory law and the skill of the Plaintiff attorney in proving his case. 

On the other hand, Plaintiff attorney was clear that the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA) only requires that any specific use of a chemical (fluoridation programs) not pose an "unreasonable risk" to consumers which include susceptible sub-populations like pregnant women and their offspring and bottle-fed babies. All five plaintiff witnesses were quite clear that optimally fluoridated water per CDC guidelines is subtly and permanently damaging the brains of millions of children. Even EPA witnesses and attorneys admitted that there is "something there" in the scientific evidence showing neurotoxic effects at 0.7 ppm, but argued it is not clearly defined enough to identify a "Point of Departure" for the EPA to perform a risk assessment. 

Really? 

Three Benchmark Dose Analyses which are the gold standard for beginning risk assessments and established uncertainty factors have identified that 0.2 mg/L, which is one tenth of 2 ppm, as harmful. This suggests that no fluoride exposure is safe for baby brains and is a scientifically justifiable Point of Departure in anyone's book.  

BMCL

But let's make it even easier for thick-headed fluoridationists to understand: 

• No amount of fluoride in water or food is safe for pregnant women and their fetuses; bottle-fed infants and young children; the elderly and any in fragile health, such as diabetics or those with thyroid or kidney disease. 

[CarryAnne · Accepted solution]

 “Today’s ruling represents an important acknowledgement of a large and growing body of science indicating serious human health risks associated with fluoridated drinking water. This court looked at the science and acted accordingly. Now the EPA must respond by implementing new regulations that adequately protect all Americans – especially our most vulnerable infants and children – from this known health threat.” - Wenonah Hauter, Director of Food & Water Watch in “Historic Court Decision in Fluoridation Toxicity Case Orders EPA to Act” (Sept. 25, 2024)

Well, it as been a busy few weeks! 

Not only was the final NTP Systematic Review, "Fluoride Exposure: Neurodevelopment and Cognition" published in August (despite political efforts by HHS/PHS and ADA to scuttle it) after five (or was it six) peer reviews, the Final Findings and Conclusion of Law from a lengthy de novo trial was rendered in September with excellent detail, and the 2024 Cochrane Systematic Review, "Water fluoridation for the prevention of dental caries," published in October repeated that dental fluorosis is an adverse effect of fluoridation, a practice which provides no benefit to adults or lower socio-economic groups. The Cochrane authors also wrote that the very small benefit they were able to document to children from "poor quality" studies at high risk of bias "may not be real." 

In other words, community water fluoridation is all risk and no benefit. Fluoridation is dental mythology, a magic potion tooth-fairy tale. The most important thing is that Judge Chen ordered the EPA to take action to eliminate the risk to consumers. 

• UNSAFE: p. 2:  the Court finds that fluoridation of water at 0.7 milligrams per liter (“mg/L”) – the level presently considered “optimal” in the United States – poses an unreasonable risk of reduced IQ in children.

• HAZARD: p 5:   The pooled benchmark dose analysis concluded that a 1-point drop in IQ of a child is to be expected for each 0.28 mg/L of fluoride in a pregnant mother’s urine. This is highly concerning, because maternal urinary fluoride levels for pregnant mothers in the United States range from 0.8 mg/L at the median and 1.89 mg/L depending upon the degree of exposure. Not only is there an insufficient margin between the hazard level and these exposure levels, for many, the exposure levels exceed the hazard level of 0.28 mg/L.
  
  

• CERTAINTY: p. 77: The scientific literature in the record provides a high level of certainty that a hazard is present; fluoride is associated with reduced IQ. There are uncertainties presented by the underlying data regarding the appropriate point of departure and exposure level to utilize in this risk evaluation. But those uncertainties do not undermine the finding of an unreasonable risk; in every scenario utilizing any of the various possible points of departures, exposure levels and metrics, a risk is present in view of the applicable uncertainty factors that apply.
  
  

• VULNERABILITY: p. 76: The size of the affected population is vast. Approximately 200 million Americans have fluoride intentionally added to their drinking water at a concentration of 0.7 mg/L. See Dkt. No. 421 at 206-07 (undisputed). Other Americans are indirectly exposed to fluoridated water through consumption of commercial beverages and food manufactured with fluoridated water
  
  

• SUSCEPTIBILITY: p. 76: Approximately two million pregnant women, and over 300,000 exclusively formula-fed babies are exposed to fluoridated water. The number of pregnant women and formula-fed babies alone who are exposed to water fluoridation each year exceeds entire populations exposed to conditions of use for which EPA has found unreasonable risk; the EPA has found risks unreasonable where the population impacted was less than 500 people. 

[Drjohnnyjohnson]

Bill,

How about we stick with clinical dentistry for the present moment Bill.  And perhaps a bit of evidence-based science thrown in.

1.  You stated in your testimony in Cortland, NY, that you place veneers over teeth that are showing fluorosis from CWF.  You did not show any before or after pictures.  You know that the only fluorosis attributed to CWF is very mild to mild.  Why don't you show pictures of before and afters of patients you've treated from CWF that needed veneers?  I'd like to see them.  Please refer to the CDC figure below:

Normal	Questionable	Very mild
Mild	Moderate	Severe

https://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/faqs/dental_fluorosis/index.htm

2.  The US Community Preventive Services Task Force stated that severe fluorosis does not occur from CWF.  The literature review that they undertook was reviewed by the Cochrane Oral Health Group (COHG), the same COHG that published their report in 2015 on CWF.  They gave their stamp of approval to the studies used.

The USCPSTF findings:

Task Force Finding (April 2013) The Community Preventive Services Task Force recommends

1. community water fluoridation based on strong evidence of effectiveness in reducing dental caries across populations.

2. Evidence shows the prevalence of caries is substantially lower in communities with CWF.

3. In addition, there is no evidence that CWF results in severe dental fluorosis. Evidence indicates the economic benefit of CWF is greater than the cost.

4.In addition, the benefit-cost ratio increases with the size of the community population.

https://www.thecommunityguide.org/sites/default/files/assets/Oral-Health-Caries-Community-Water-Fluo...

Lastly, your mixing of facts and snippets of information based on the typical anti-fluoridation 101 handbook should be somthing left to a person that is outside of our profession, especially someone with an MPH after their name.  Stick with the facts.

Show me before/afters of the last 10 patients that you treated with veneers that were required by fluorosis that you relate to CWF.  It's time to become a dentist here, Bill.  Let the other non-dental commentors use the double talk that you are putting out.  Let's make this about clinical experiences.

Respectfully,

Johnny Johnson, Jr., DMD, MS

Pediatric Dentistry

Diplomate American Board of Pediatric Dentistry

Life Fellow, American Academy of Pediatric Dentistry

President, American Fluoridation Society

[BillO538145]

Dr. Johnny Johnson,

Before I respond to your comments, let me once again express my admiration for Pedodontists.  I worked in a rural area where there were no specialists and I took children to the hospital for treatment.  Moving on to a larger center, the first thing I did was find a good Pedodontist to take my children.  

Adults usually know why they have problems and accept treatment.  Children don't understand and too often suffer with fear, pain, and the unknown.  I hurt for the kids and was just as stressed as they.  I would not have lasted long drilling holes in children.  God bless Pedodontists.  And yes, I gave the kids fluoride before I knew it was frying their thyroids and brains.

Yes, I treat dental fluorosis.  Some try bleaching, which can have some benefit.  Some try smoothing and recalcification, but they don't follow through well.  Some want composite veneers and some porcelain veneers.

Johnny, those (CPSTF and others) who say that severe fluorosis does not occur with CWF. . . make no sense and have their heads buried in the sand.

CWF is a contributing factor for total fluoride exposure.   No one has done a study on humans removing all other sources of fluoride.  Humans don't consume ONLY CWF water and no foods, medications, dental products or any other sources of fluoride.  CPSTF is probably correct, if the only intake of fluoride were CWF, the person would die from lack of food and air. . . never developing DF.  Many sources of fluoride and we don't live in isolation living on CWF alone.

The statement is not real world, reality, and is theoretical abstract non-sense.  

CWF contributes to total fluoride exposure.  

My concern is TOTAL FLUORIDE EXPOSURE.  

20% of adolescents have moderate/severe DF.  When CWF started, Burk assured us perhaps only 10-15% of children would get DF and then only the mildest forms.   We now have 60% with 20% moderate/severe.  In my judgment, too many children are ingesting too much fluoride.

As a public health professional, it is urgent that we reduce total fluoride exposure.  Do we do that by removing fluoride medications, pesticides, post-harvest fumigants, or ??????   Clearly, adding more fluoride to the diet with CWF is the most reasonable step to reduce exposure.  In fact, HHS agreed, lowering the concentration to 0.7 ppm.   They estimated a 14% reduction in exposure.  A great start, but not enough.   Getting the CWF to 0.4 ppm would still not be enough.  We need a cessation of CWF AND also determine where additional fluoride is coming from or is the DF a synergistic effect from other chemicals?

CDC needs to release the data on the next two dental fluorosis surveys after 2011-2012 NHANES.  Yes, they have done two more and have released the data on everything except DF.   Why????  Why not release all the data ASAP?   

How many of the USCPSTF members have reservations about CWF?  No, the members were cherry picked for their support of CWF.  Because of their belief in CWF, they did not demand high quality evidence.  Cochrane reviews are better/higher quality.

You suggest my comments are mixing facts and snippets, but I can say the same for your comments.    

Indeed, some evidence is stronger than others.  Each needs to be weighed and the weight of each added for a judgment.

1.   Many are ingesting too much fluoride.

2.  Stopping CWF will still not reduce total exposure enough to get DF under control.

3.  The evidence for efficacy of ingesting fluoride is not adequate to gain FDA approval.  Ingesting fluoride may not work, topical has some benefit.

4.  The evidence of risk is ever increasing and rapidly now that researchers know how to focus their research to areas of concern.  

Question Johnny,  "What concentration of fluoride in the tooth is optimal?"  Teeth with caries and without caries have similar concentrations of fluoride, except for topical application on the surface of the tooth.

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

[ri1666]

Thank you for this informative post.

[BillO538145]

Steve,

Your response to CarryAnne does not really make "judgment" sense.

You say skeletal fluorosis is "not a conern."  

Yet provide research saying skeletal fluorosis in the USA is "extremely rare."

I consider rare cases of disease still a concern.  Many diseases are extremely rare and a serious concern for the person with the disease.

I agree overt severe crippling skeletal fluorosis is extremely rare.   Early cases are difficult to diagnose because they resemble arthritis like symptoms.   Science has much to learn.  With huge increases in dental fluorosis, I am concerned for skeletal fluorosis.

The lack of benefit and lack of cost effectiveness of adding more fluoride to the diet is a serious concern.

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

[CarryAnne]

“Fluoride has no known essential function in human growth and development and no signs of fluoride deficiency have been identified.” - European Food Safety Authority on DRV  (2013)

“Based on data from the National Academy of Sciences, current levels of fluoride exposure in drinking water may cause arthritis in a substantial portion of the population long before they reach old age" - Dr. Robert Carton,  EPA Scientist (1993)

"Drinking water: 1.0 mg/L is the upper limit the body may tolerate; less the better as fluoride is injurious to health." - Bureau of Indian Standards, 2012

There are essential nutrients and non-essential nutrients. Fluoride is neither in any form despite dental assertions to the contrary. The best American dentists got was convincing some folks in the 1990s to call it a beneficial element with no known adverse effects up to 10 mgs per day - but that ship has sailed.  

Fluoride is an enzyme poison and inflammatory drug that accumulates in bones, bodies and brains. In this century, it has been scientifically determined that fluoride is a developmental neurotoxicant (brain poison) even in low doses previously considered safe and that  0.5 mg/L disrupts thyroid function and that 1 mg/L is nephrotoxic to struggling kidneys. Fluoride penetrates the brain where it can disrupt sleep patterns when it calcifies the pineal gland.  If you drink 3 liters of water a day at 0.7 ppm, assuming you aren't using any fluoridated dental products or have any other exposure and have healthy kidneys, your dose would be 2.1 mg. 

* About 40% of Americans over age 60 develop bone spurs - Stage 2 Skeletal Fluorosis. 

* About 70 million Americans suffer from gastrointestinal disease. 

                  Individual susceptiblity to fluoride poisoning varies. 

2015 Review: 

http://fluorideandfluorosis.com/Reprints/pdf/IJPP%2017(2)%202015.pdf

[StevenS353310]

“CaryAnne”

1.  Fluoridation was never intended, or expected to compensate for any “fluoride deficiency”.  It is simply a measure that adjusts the existing level of  fluoride in water  to that concentration at which maximum dental decay prevention has been established to occur in populations served by that water, with no adverse effects on anyone.

2.  There is no valid, peer-reviewed scientific evidence of association of optimally fluoridated water with arthritis.  

The 2006 NRC Committee on Fluoride in Drinking Water was charged to evaluate the adequacy of the EPA primary and secondary MCLs for fluoride, 4.0 ppm and 2.0 ppm respectively, to protect against adverse effects.  The final recommendation of this Committee was for the primary MCL to be lowered from 4.0 ppm.  The sole reasons cited by the Committee for this recommendation were the risk of severe dental fluorosis, bone fracture, and skeletal fluorosis, with chronic ingestion of water with a fluoride content of 4.0 ppm or greater.  Nothing else.  Had this committee deemed there to be any  concerns of arthritis, or anything else with fluoride at this level, it would have been responsible for stating so and recommending accordingly.  It did not. 

Additionally, the NRC Committee made no recommendation to lower the secondary MCL of 2.0 ppm.  Water is fluoridated at 0.7 ppm. one third the level which the 2006 NRC Committee on Fluoride in Drinking Water made no recommendation to lower.

In March of 2013, Dr. John Doull, Chair of the 2006 NRC Committee on Fluoride in Drinking Water made the following statement:

"I do not believe there is any valid, scientific reason for fearing adverse health conditions from the consumption of water fluoridated at the optimal level”

---John Doull, MD, PhD, Chair of the National Academy of Sciences, National Research Council 2006 Committee Report on Fluoride in Drinking Water

3.  A nonsensical, unsubstantiated claim you attribute to the of Bureau of Indian Standards notwithstanding, the US National Academy of Medicine established daily upper limit of fluoride intake  before adverse effects is 10 mg.  For every one liter of optimally fluoridated water consumed, 0.7 mg fluoride is ingested.  Before the daily upper limit could even be neared from optimally fluoridated water in conjunction with all other normal sources of fluoride intake, water toxicity would be the concern, not fluoride.

4. The benefits of water fluoridation have been clearly demonstrated in countless peer-reviewed  studies right up through 2018.  I will gladly provide you with as many such studies as you would reasonably care to read.  Your lack of knowledge  of the scientific literature on fluoridation does not mean  it does not exist.

5. There is no valid, peer-reviewed scientific evidence of an association of optimally fluoridated water with any of the litany of  nonsense you proclaim....as evidenced by your inability to provide any such evidence to support your claims.

6.  That you have no idea what you are talking about is clearly obvious in your confusion of dose and concentration.   Dose  is expressed in mg, not in  mg/L.  Concentration is expressed 

in mg/L.  Consuming 3 liters of optimally fluoridated water would result in ingestion of 2.1 mg fluoride, far below the US National Academy of Medicine established daily upper limit of 10 mg before adverse effects.

7.  If skeletal fluorosis was in any manner attributable to water fluoridation, this disorder would be rampant in the nearly 75% fluoridated US by now.  Skeletal fluorosis is so rare in the US as to be nearly non-existent.

Steven D. Slott, DDS 

[rs5526]

Fluoride is not a mineral. Please read the Journal of Environmental and Public Health  439490 article in its entirety. Fluorite is a mineral but fluoride is not isolatable itself and is always accompanied with another cation.

Natural minerals containing fluoride that can be found in the ocean or as a contaminant in some fresh waters is calcium fluoride with limited solubility. The EPA regulates any calcium fluoride in drinking  water to prevent serious illness but does not insist that levels be low enough to prevent all adverse health effects. All added fluoride sources are synthetic, made in industrial processes. Fluoride is not a normal component of human blood and is not a nutrient. Fluoride accumulation in bone lifetime is a pathologic process, not a physiologic one and is not biochemically reversible. 

The use of sodium fluoride tablets in fluoridated cities violate FDA prescription instructions. And infants have no teeth so fluoridating infant bone is abuse. 

[StevenS353310]

Richard.....no.

1.  The paper which you urge people to read is one written by you, rife with errors and misconceptions.  It is difficult to imagine how this paper appeared in any publication, respected or otherwise.   A review of the paper by highly respected researcher Gary Whitfird, PhD, DMD details your unsubstantiated claims, misinformation, and erroneous scientific assertions.  This review may be viewed:

http://fluoridescience.org/commentary/physiologic-conditions-affect-toxicity-ingested-industrial-flu...

2.  Contrary to your claim that fluoride “is always accompanied with another cation”, fluoride is not a cation. A cation is a positively charged atom. Fluoride is the anion of the element fluorine.  An anion is a negatively charged atom.  Fluoride is indeed isolatable and  exists in water in free, ionic form.  

3.  You confuse the compound calcium fluoride with fluoride.  To what you are referring are free fluoride ions, not calcium fluoride.  CaF  is simply one of countless chemical compounds  containing fluoride ions, and does not exist in water.  Like fluoride, calcium exists in water in a free, ionic form.  Any combination of these two ions would form the compound calcium fluoride whose solubility is too low to exist in water.  It would thus, precipitate out.  However, there are too few fluoride ions  in water for such combination and precipitation to occur.

Given these facts, the EPA obviously does not “regulates any calcium fluoride in drinking water to prevent serious illness but does not insist that levels be low enough to prevent all adverse effects”.  In your context, it regulates the concentration of free fluoride ions.  

4. All fluoride ions, regardless the source compound from which they are released, regardless of whether they are termed “naturally occurring” or otherwise....are identical.  This is basic chemistry.  It therefore makes no difference through what “processess” fluoridation substances are produced.   The fluoride ions they release into water are identical to those which already exist in that water.

5. Due to the fact that fluoride is a normal constituent of the environment and in most foods that humans eat, fluoride is most certainly a normal component of human blood.  

6. Your claim that fluoride accumulation in bone is a pathologic process and not “biologically reversible” is patently false.

First of all, there is no valid, peer-reviewed scientific evidence of any adverse effects resultant of bioaccumulation of fluoride at the optimal level at which water is fluoridated.  

Second, it is a well established fact of fluoride pharmacokinetics that fluoride is incorporated and removed from long term storage in bone in response to its equilibrium with blood plasma fluoride concentration.

“Chronic dosing leads to accumulation in bone and plasma (although it might not always be detectable in plasma.) Subsequent decreases in exposure cause fluoride to move back out of bone into body fluids, becoming subject to the same kinetics as newly absorbed fluoride. A study of Swiss aluminum workers found that fluoride bone concentrations decreased by 50% after 20 years.”

—Fluoride in Drinking Water: A Scientific Review of EPA Standards (2006)

NRC Committee on Fluoride in Drinking Water 

pp 92

7.  The use of sodium fluoride tablets in fluoiridated cities does not violate any “FDA prescription instructions”.  Fluoride supplements require prescription in order to ensure, as much as possible, that the fluoride content of the primary water source of the patient is verified prior to dispensing any further fluoride.  Simply because a community is fluoridated does not mean that all residents obtain their water from the public water supply, or that they consume water from their taps.  It is the responsibility of the prescribing dentist or physician to make these determinations, and to prescribe accordingly.

8.  Infants do, indeed, have teeth.  Human teeth begin developing in the fetus, continuing to the age of 8 years.  Incorporation of fluoride into the developing teeth results in strengthening these teeth against decay for a lifetime.

Abuse of children is denying them the increased dental decay resistance provided by water fluoridation, based on nothing but unsubstantiated claims, false assertions, and misinformation put forth by misguided, uninformed activists.

Steven D. Slott, DDS

[sirpac271999]

War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength,  Fluoride is Gin, and America is a Gulag! 

No free nation dumbs artificial industrial waste into the water supply using the ruse that the worthless garbage benefits teeth. We may as well ingest lead and say it makes humans beautiful. Lol! 

Dentist with venal interest have no credibility, since everywhere you look in America, you see spotted teeth. Good business for dentist!

[rs5526]

Two more points. Yes there is no Constitutional right for anyone to decide what the chemical composition of their drlnkin water is--that is not specifically itemized in the Constitution. So why then do fluoride promoters presume the right to force homeowners to accept water treaed with exogenous fluoride from fluosilci cacid waste? There is no Constitutional right for it.

Second, the NRC concluded that the current EPA allowed maximum contaminant level goal for fluoride in drinking water is not fully protecifve of human health and should be lowered (p. 352). This is because longterm fluoride intake at that level is known to cause stage II skeletal fluorosis. The tabulated data indicaed bone pain at levels far lower than the aveage lbone level listed in the text for cuasing bone pain. 

And the secondary macimum contaminant level also was concluded to not completely prevent modeate dental ene mal fluorosis (which is enamel hypoplasia).

The committee was not allowed to evaluate water fluoridation at 1 ppm but did publish much daa of advese heatlh effects in consumers of 1 ppm fluoride water. At this concentration, parathryod hormone and calcitonin are both elevated in consumers, as is thyroid stimulating hormone particularly in those with insufficient dietary iodine, and ingested fluoride at any concentration accumulates in bone,  forms bone of poor qualit,y and is not removable with normal biochemical mechanisms. 

[CarryAnne]

Neither legal doublespeak nor argument over the quality of specific studies has anything to do with the purpose of the AARP forum or this thread. 

1. Fluoridation is medically contraindicated for many, ill advised for others and an immoral medical mandate.
2. Fluoride is an inflammatory drug that builds up in bodies, brains and bones, making it particularly harmful to Baby Boomers who have consumed it for decades. 

Senior citizens with arthritis, kidney disease, dementia, thyroid disease, cancer, IBD, etc. should not be consuming fluoridated water. Period. 

 P.S. Also immaterial is whether someone is a member of an advocacy group like AFS or an activist group like FAN. Integrity on the other hand is material.
AARP - where do you stand?  

[StevenS353310]

Gee, Karen.  So now correcting the patently false claims made by you and your New Zealand antifluoridationist counterparts, is somehow “legal doublespeak”??  

Because you fail to understand legal rulings which you garble and misrepresent, does not mean that intelligent readers have the same failing.  

Now, in regard to the false claims you have posted in this latest comment:

1.  There is no valid, peer-reviewed scientific evidence of any medical contraindication for consuming optimally fluoridated water, and the only thing “ill-advised” associated with fluoridation is according any credence, whatsoever, to the false claims and misinformation put forth by activists such as you who have no regard for truth and accuracy.

2.  The “immoral mandate” is that attempted by antifluoridatinsts who seek to impose their decades-old personal ideology onto entire populations, thereby depriving those citizens of the very valuable dental decay prevention benefitting nearly 75% of the United States.

3.  Fluoride ions have  always existed in water.  To suddenly proclaim them to be a drug, is obviously ludicrous.

4.  There is no valid, peer-reviewed scientific evidence of any adverse effect of fluoride build up from optimally fluoridated water, or of any harm to anyone, anywhere who “have consumed it for decades”.

5.  Aside from the obvious health danger of so doing, your recklessly dispensing medical recommendations to senior citizens when you have no credentials, knowledge  or qualifications to do so could be considered to be practicing medicine without a license, thereby potentially exposing you to criminal prosecution, and liability claims.  That you are doing so is especially egregious and dangerous given the the recommendations you are providing are contradictiry to accepted medical standard of care.  

The reality is that there  is no valid, peer-reviewed scientific evidence of any adverse effect from optimally fluoridated water on senior citizens, or anyone else, “with arthritis, kidney disease, denentia, thyroid, cancer, IBD, etc”.  It is against the standard of care to recommend against consuming fluoridated water.  

Steven D. Slott, DDS

[CharlesH595927]

Say America's pediatricians through the American Academy of Pediatrics: "Fluoride plays a very important role in the prevention of dental caries."

"Water fluoridation is a cost-effective means of preventing dental caries, with the lifetime cost per person equaling less than the cost of 1 dental restoration. In short, fluoridated water is the cheapest and most effective way to deliver anticaries benefits to communities."

America's Internal Medicine specialists whose main mission is the medical care for older people agree. The American Academy of Family Physicians did their own systematic review before deciding to advocate for fluoridation.

Physicians are not stupid lemmings. They only wish the best for their patients. If the views in this "discussion" were the truth the physician's support of fluoridation would evaporate.

These arguments well illustrates that fluoridation opponents actually believe that somehow state and federal health agencies, aided by these many expert scientific communities are lying and helping to poison over 2000 million Americans.

This is pure crackpottery.

[sirpac271999]

I do not consent to be forcibly medicated through the water supply with chemicals that are not there to treat the water, but the end consumer. Even if there were any benefit, which I am convinced there is none, who has given anyone the right to forcible feed chemicals down our throats? Also, science is overwhelmingly showing multiple harms due to bioaccumulation of Fluorine compounds in to bodily tissues. The fact that many dentists are supporting such practice is outrageous and surely these dentist are not there to monitor the daily dose. Such dentist have no credibility in my book and I do not consent to any artificially forcefed water fluoridation! What has happened to dental ethics? What kind of “free” nation would engage is such practice? Obviously not free!

[CharlesH595927]

Appeal and Supreme Courts across the US have ruled that fluoridation is not mass medication, forced or otherwise. Three of the reasons are:
1. No one is forced to consume tap water.
2. Fluoride ions are naturally present in tap water. Fluoridation is the adjustment of a naturally occurring mineral.
3. Fluoride is an approved water additive regulated in the same manner as all the some 45 others.
4. There is no constitutionally guaranteed individual right to choose the chemical composition of tap water.
5. Water providers have a right and obligation to determine the composition of their product within the standards defined by law.

Here are some representative quotes from the Oregon Supreme Court.
BAER v. CITY OF BEND

"the fluoridation measure passes the test of reasonableness."

(fluoridation is) "no more practicing medicine or dentistry or manufacturing, preparing, compounding or selling a drug, than a mother would be who furnishes her children a well-balanced diet."

"But the liberty secured by the Constitution ..does not import an absolute right in each person to be ..wholly freed from restraint. There are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good."

"Society based on the rule that each one is a law unto himself would soon be confronted with disorder and anarchy."

"Real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own regardless of the injury that may be done to others."

[CarryAnne]

“Nothing I have seen changes my view of the serious hazards occasioned by public fluoridation. To the contrary, what I have read convinces me all the more that in depth, serious, scientific effort should be undertaken before further expanding a questionable practice. Those who belittle critics of fluoridation do the public a mis-service, yet it seems in the face of strong, uncontradicted prima facie evidence, that is the tactic most often employed.” - Judge John P. Flaherty, Justice in the Supreme Court of PA (1988 comment on 1978 decision)

I have to agree that the NZ Supreme Court rulling is more of the same - a mixed lot that doesn't make much of a difference. The New Zealand Supreme Court, without considering the latest evidence from multiple studies and analysis of US data, ruled that fluoridation chemicals were medicine and that fluoridation process is mass medication in violation of their Bill of Rights - but legal under other statutes that exempts them from regulation. 

In the 20th century, there were several US court rulings that fluoridation was undoubtedly harmful, but legal under US law. US courts advised that fluoridation decisions rightfully should be left to regulatory agencies and legislators rather than the courts. Sadly, regulatory agencies and politicians have been captured or/and corrupted by the fluoridation lobby who deceives them with Tooth Fairy Tales of magic potions and insists on slavish obedience to dental dogma.

I suggest that  if the evidence of harm and dental disagreement are too much for the courts and politicians to consider, then they at least should pay attention to international human rights statutes. 

• ”Any preventive, diagnostic and therapeutic medical intervention is only to be carried out with the prior, free and informed consent of the person concerned, based on adequate information. The consent should, where appropriate, be express and may be withdrawn by the person concerned at any time and for any reason without disadvantage or prejudice.” - UNESCO on Medical Consent in Bioethics and Human Rights, Article 6 (2005)

• ”The interests and welfare of the individual should have priority over the sole interest of science or society.”  - UNESCO documents on Medical Consent in Bioethics and Human Rights, Article 3 (2005)

• “In no case should a collective community agreement or the consent of a community leader or other authority substitute for an individual’s informed consent.” - UNESCO documents on Medical Consent in Bioethics and Human Rights, Article 6 (2010)

• “The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential ... The duty and responsibility for ascertaining the quality of the consent rests upon each individual who initiates, directs or engages in the experiment. It is a personal duty and responsibility which may not be delegated to another with impunity ... During the course of the experiment the human subject should be at liberty to bring the experiment to an end if he has reached the physical or mental state where continuation of the experiment seems to him to be impossible." - Nuremberg Code (1947)

However, there is a pending August 2019 US lawsuit against the EPA in federal court under the TSCA regulations. That lawsuit should consider the most recent findings that prove both an increase in dental fluorosis and a decline in IQ on a dose-resposne trend line plus a correlation between dental fluorosis severity and learning disabilties. God help us all if the law of the land continues to be contorted to make it legal to poison people.  

[BillO538145]

Dr. Slott,

A couple NZ court cases.  The Human Rights case is most interesting and you may have only seen one case.   The court confirmed that adding fluoride to water is compulsory medical treatment without the option to refuse.  May I quote:

"[99] Applying this approach, we find that fluoridation of drinking water is the provision of medical treatment.  It involves the provision of a pharmacologically active substance for the purpose of treating those who ingest it for dental decay.  We agree with the Courts below that people who live or work in areas where fluoridation occurs have no practical option but to ingest the fluoride added to the water.  So the treatment is compulsory.  While drinking water from a tap is not an activity that would normally be classified as undergoing medical treatment, we do not consider that ingesting fluoride added to water can be said to be qualitatively different from ingesting a fluoride tablet provided by a health practitioner.
[100] We conclude that fluoridation of drinking water requires those drinking the water to undergo medical treatment in circumstances where they are unable to refuse to do so.  Subject to s 5, therefore, s 11 of the Bill of Rights Act is engaged."

In the USA, the FDA has agreed  before Congress fluoride is a drug.  However, they sidestep the issue by claiming the EPA regulates the water.  EPA kicks the jurisdiction back to the FDA saying they are prevented from adding anything to water for the treatment of humans. 

The court cases have something for both sides and I'm sure neither side will call these court cases definitive. 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

A former fluoride promoter

[StevenS353310]

No, Karen.  The New Zealand Supreme Court did not make any such ruling as you and your New Zealand antifluoridationist counterparts falsely claim.  A court ruling is a final decision on specific claims brought before the court  to be resolved.  The decision dispenses the questions one way or the other, and is enforceable as law.  

To what  you and your New Zealand counterparts erroneously  refer as “rulings” are nothing more than the personal opinions of judges on which they base their final consensus ruling, or decision.  In the NZ case, antifluoridationists appealed to the Supreme Court  to overturn a lower court decision which had gone against them.  They based this appeal on 2 points of law.  The final ruling by the Supreme Court was that their points did not have merit, that the  lower court ruling was upheld, and the appeal was dismissed.  

No court of last resort has ever ruled in favor of the antifluoridationist nonsense of “forced medication”.

Steven D. Slott, DDS

[ri1666]

JUNE 28, 2018  

 AARP Read this and Please take action- to help STOP Fluoridation! 

Below is a press release from Fluoride Free New Zealand on the NZ Supreme Court's recent ruling on fluoridation of the public water supply:

Fluoridation is Mass Medication, New Zealand Supreme Court Rules

Water fluoridation is compulsory mass medication, in breach of human rights, the Supreme Court has ruled by a majority vote. It confirmed that fluoridation is a medical treatment as claimed by opponents for over 60 years. It is not a supplement “just topping up natural levels”, as claimed by the Ministry of Health.

The impracticality of avoiding fluoridated water makes it compulsory in practice, the majority also ruled.

Three judges held that there was conflicting scientific evidence, confirming that the science is NOT settled.

Chief Justice Sian Elias then held that fluoridation was not prescribed by law (i.e. is unlawful), applying section 6 of the Bill of Rights Act. That was the correct decision in Fluoride Free NZ’s view.

The rest of the majority held that it was prescribed by law, and it was then necessary to apply a balancing test to determine if the breach of the right – not to be subject to medical treatment without consent – was justified in the case of fluoridation.

Justice Glazebrook held that it was for a local authority to do this when making its decision, potentially taking into account specific local circumstances.

On the balance of information before the Court – the misinformation promulgated by promoters that water fluoridation measurably reduces tooth decay and presents no real health risk – two judges held that it was justifiable. This is despite the court reiterating that it is now accepted that benefit for fluoride is from topical application, not from ingestion.

The Court did not consider information published since the original High Court case, and the recent US Government multi-million-dollar study by Bashash et al, published in Environmental Health Perspectives, carried out by top scientists and researchers in top North American universities – had not yet been published. This study found that children exposed to fluoride at the same levels as New Zealanders had significantly reduced IQ, which could easily have shifted the Justices’ perception of safety.

Importantly, the Court held that this question of whether fluoridation is justifiable is to be determined on the balance of probabilities. There is no requirement for absolute proof of harm, as long-maintained by the Ministry of Health. As a question of fact, the two judges’ conclusion is not binding on any lower court or any statutory decision maker. With the overwhelming weight of scientific evidence that water fluoridation is ineffective and poses significant health risks, this opens the door to end the practice at any time.

The majority held that tooth decay was a condition in the community that a local council could address (through fluoridation) under section 23 of the Health Act. It necessarily follows that any aspect of health in the community, good or bad, must also fall under section 23. This includes the current IQ level of inhabitants. Therefore a local council is required to protect that condition under section 23. So if, on the balance of probabilities, water fluoridation reduces IQ significantly – and half a standard deviation (5 points on the scale used in recent studies) is significant – a council must not implement fluoridation, and in fact must cease it if it is currently in place. Arguably, this mandatory requirement would override any direction that a District Health Board might give a council under the proposed legislation currently before Parliament.

Now that the Supreme Court has ruled fluoridation is medical treatment without consent, and with the mounting evidence that it is ineffective and carries significant health risks, it is time for politicians and the health sector to rethink the practice. Its days are clearly numbered following this judgment.

[StevenS353310]

Wow!!!   I’ve seen a mountain load of misrepresentations by antifluoridationists, but this one by the New Zealand antifluoridationist group has got to go to the top of the list.  The NZ Supreme Court did not make any of the rulings claimed by this New Zealand subsidiary of FAN, in its “press release”.  The court simply rejected the appeal by another New Zealand antifluoridationist group, New Health, of lower court rulings against the antifluoridationists.  While the Supreme Court  provided summaries of its discussions and reasoning, the dismissal of the antifluoridationist  claims was its only ruling.  It most certainly did not rule that fluoridation is mass medication, compulsory, or any of the other egregious claims made in this ridiculous “press release”.

A summary of the NZ Supreme Court ruling  against the antifluoridationists was prepared by the Justices.  It may be viewed:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1806/S00307/fluoridation-new-health-nz-v-south-taranaki-dc.htm

Steven D. Slott, DDS

[CarryAnne]

“While four out of five dentists may be enough to pick a gum, all should agree before we force-medicate the public.” - Judge Peter Vallone, Jr., former Chair of the NYC Public Safety Committee (2012) 

Thousands of scientists and dentists oppose fluoridation based on 21st century evidence. The IAOMT is a professional organization with a scientific mission. IAOMT membership is dentists, oral medicine doctors & toxicologists. See their 2017 Position Paper Against Fluoride Use for Dental and Medical Practitioners, Dental and Medical Students, Consumers, and Policy Makers. They are one professional organization from over a dozen who openly oppose fluoridation in the 21st century. 

Thousands of professionals object, and this thread begun in February 2015 includes quotes from many of them. Moreover, it is an individual human right to choose what substance to take into one's own body. Fluoridation policy is medical treatment without individual medical consent that conveniently ignores those who have medical contraindications, which includes many senior citizens. For a small troop of trolls to insinuate that they are the only experts in an attempt to shut down this conversation in support of fluoridation decrees that poison baby boomers is bullying 101. 

• I encourage anyone new to this thread to go to the oldest posts to read science and testimony of senior citizens harmed by fluoridation. Going forward, this thread will be pretty useless, as I stated in my last entry re the troll attack. 

See just a couple of pages of those dentists, doctors and scientists with integrity and courage who openly oppose fluoridation based on evidence of harm. More on FluorideAlert.org:

and a page of community leadership quotes from 2017: 

[CharlesH595927]

"Thousands" ??? The last time I checked (2014) there were exactly 341 dentists who had signed FAN's world-wide promoted petition to end fluoridation. The reason there are so few is that community water fluoridation is safe, effective and inexpensive.

In 2014 there were about 175,000 dentist in the US alone. dentists. 341/175000 = 0.2%

[CarryAnne]

Fluoridation policy is a medical mandate that forces contaminated product into the bodies of convenient consumers regardless of harm caused to millions with inflammatory, immune system, thyroid or kidney diseases.  

The narrative promoted by fluoridation policy suppresses emerging science, silences evolving medical opinions and stifles the voices of victims. 

It seems the troop of trolls who for the past decade or so has overwhelmed every letter to the editor in small town newspapers across the country with scores of vitriolic personal attacks and reams of copy and paste disinformation in order to bully community members into silence has found this thread about the medical contraindications of fluoride consumption, particularly for senior citizens.

This 'rapid response team' was originally organized by Pew Charitable Trusts as part of their special interest funded fluoridation initiative. The team is sent daily email alerts with sample comments. The media consultant in charge recommends inserting 'outrage and anger' into comments in order to shut down civil dialogue. The North Carolina dentist on this thread once posted 179 vitriolic comments out of 215 comments on a social media thread in Massachusetts. The pro-fluoride machine also employs social media experts and astroturfers for the purpose of 'expanding and protecting community water fluoridation.'

A couple of years ago, the most active trolls founded their own non-profit advocacy group in order to monetize their hobby. Apparently Delta Dental made the first $50,000 donation. I am given to understand the members may contract their services personally to assist pro-fluoridation entitities with political style attacks on fluoridation opponents. Consequently, unless AARP bans Johnny Johnson, Steve Slott, Chuck Haynie and the rest of their gang of gunslingers when they show up, the usefulness of this thread from here on out is ended.

• Therefore, I encourage those who are interested in fluoridation science to go the the oldest posts and read in chronological order so as to get the benefit of the AARP members who have told their personal stories as well as useful scientific information relevant to senior citizens. 

To track all fluoride science, see the Study Tracker on the Fluoride Alert website and the IAOMT webpage that includes their 2017 position paper against any fluoride use with 500 citations. 

Organizations Openly Opposed to Fluoridation include:

1. AAEM: American Academy of Environmental Medicine 
2. ICIM: International College of Integrative Medicine
3. IABDM: International Academy of Biological Dentists and Medicine
4. IAOMT: International Academy of Oral Medicine and Toxicology
5. HDA: Holistic Dental Association
6. EWG: Environmental Working Group
7. CHEJ: Center for Health, Environment & Justice
8. Sierra Club: Environmentalists 
9. ICA: International Chiropractors Association
10. OCA: Organic Consumers Association
11. FWW: Food & Water Watch
12. CAAP: Coalition of African American Pastors
13. LULAC: League of United Latin American Citizens

[StevenS353310]

For the purpose of disclosure, the commenter who hides behind the psedonym “CaryAnne” on this site, and other pseudonyms on other sites all over the internet, is Karen Spencer, a Massachusetts activist who is closely affiliated with the New York antifluoridationist faction, FAN, a group notirious for disseminating large amounts of misinformation about the public health initiative of water fluoridation.  

Ideological opposition to water fluoridation has existed amongst small pockets of ultra-conservatives since the post WW II anti-government paranoia of those such as the John Birch Society at the very beginning of this initiative 73 years ago.  Current antifluoridation activists are simply the latest generation of those who have attempted to keep this ideology alive through the decades.  The advent of the internet has accorded these little groups unfettered and immediate access to a worldwide audience, and constant, collaborative contact with each other to a degree never having before been possible.  As Spencer notes, in recent years, this heretofore unfettered dissemination of misinformation has become more and more challenged by those such as the American Fluoridation Society whose members have the knowledge and expertise to fully expose the fallacies and dishonesty of their claims.  The result is frustrated personal attacks and libelous claims such as that put forth by Spencer. 

There is little, if anything, in Spencer’s personal attack against the American Fluoridation Society and its members which bears any resemblance to the truth.  As a non-profit, the organization is fully transparent, with information about the organization and its members readily  available  on its website:

www.americanfluoridationsociety.org

The members of AFS are all healthcare providers who volunteer their time, efforts knowledge, and expertise for no compensation, to provide evidence-based facts which correct and counter the mountain of false claims and misinformation about fluoridation constantly imposed upon the public by antifluoridation activists such as Spencer and her FAN.

In contrast, in addition to the aforementioned concealing by these activists of their true identities while posting libelous personal attacks and misinformation, the group FAN, with which they are affiliated, cloaks its financial information and activities beneath an umbrella organization, while refusing to disclose the  individuals and organizations who drive their funding and agenda.  Readers are encouraged to seek underlying information about this group, and discern for themselves the degree to which it is hidden.   What is known is that the leaders of FAN are paid for their efforts to disparage fluoridation, that the group has a paid lobbyist, that it receives significant funding from natural food salesmen such as the dubious Joseph Mercola, and that it’s misinformation has been promoted by the conspiracy theorist Alex Jones and his “Infowars”.  

So, the question here is whether AARP members would rather trust evidence-based information on a healthcare issue provided by healthcare providers who are fully open and transparent about who they are, and who rely upon the latest, most up-to-date peer-reviewed science, authoritative information from those such as the  US CDC, the US EPA, the American Dental Association, the World Health Organization, and the American Academy of Pediatrics......or upon the unsubstantiated claims, misrepresentations, and misinformation of activists who have no healthcare education, training, or experience, who hide their true identities, who are paid for their services, who are backed by dubious individuals and organizations, who fail to disclose anything whatsoever about themselves or their organization, and who employ name-calling and personal attacks when backed into a corner by facts and evidence?

Steven D. Slott, DDS 

[Drjohnnyjohnson]

Hi CA, or Karen Spencer, or whomever is hiding behing this name,

Your list speaks volumes about those opposed to water fluoridation. 

Take the IAOMT. The definition of this group from RationalWiki sums it up best:

"The International Academy of Oral Medicine and Toxicology (IAOMT) is a quack organization based in Canada that promotes dental woo.[1] They were responsible for the "smoking tooth" video that frequently gets passed around in altie circles. Their main issue is mercury amalgam fillings, which they claim can cause all sorts of neurological illnesses such as Parkinson's and autism. They sell filling removal kits for "dentists" along with various other nature woo, mostly vitamin supplements. The organization also opposes water fluoridation, claims to put out peer-reviewed "research," and supports "health freedom." 

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/International_Academy_of_Oral_Medicine_and_Toxicology

Thanks for bringing forward your group of opposition.  Now our readers truly can understand who these folks are and what they stand for.

Johnny Johnson, Jr., DMD, MS

[BillO538145]

Dr. Johnson

When a person lacks evidence to support a theory, they attack the person and people rather than the issues.

Many aspects of dentistry and public health are in the dustbin of history.  Fluoridation will soon be considered on of public health's greatest blunders.

When fluoridation first started, public health authorities (Burk et al) assured the public only about 10-15% of the public would get dental fluorosis, a biomarker of too much fluoride.

Dental fluorosis increased at the turn of the century to 41% of adolescents with dental fluorosis.  The latest NHANES 2011-2012 dental fluorosis CDC survay released, shows 60% of adolescents with dental fluorosis and 20% with moderate and severe.  Clearly, too many are ingesting too much fluoride.

One of the unknowns is, "where is the excess fluoride coming from?"  Water fluoridation and toothpaste do not seem to have increased enough to cause such high rates of dental fluorosis.  Are there synergistic chemicals, other fluoride products or what?  Indeed, HHS recommended reducing the concentration of fluoride in water to 0.7 ppm, but HHS suggests that will represent about a 14% decrease in exposure.  Still too much fluoride ingestion. 

Fluoride does not magically go just to the teeth.  Most cells and tissues and organ systems appear to be affected.   

First consider dosage.  What fluoride concentration is desireable in the tooth?  How much fluoride does it take to get that concentration? 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

[StevenS353310]

Bill, as a point of clarification, while you may claim to be a “former fluoride promoter” at some point in the past,  the fact is that you are the former Director of the New York antifluoridationist faction, FAN.

Yes, there were two decisions, by the NZ Supreme Court.  I have, of course, seen both, and understand, as apparently you do not, that both rulings rejected the arguments of the antifluoridationists, and upheld the lower rulings that:

1.  The Tanaki Council did, indeed, have the authority to fluoridate its water system,

2.  That the fluoridation substances are not medicine under the Medicine Act.  

What you have posted here are out-of-context opinions of justices, not their ruling.  You have also conveniently omitted the opinion of the other justice which differred from them.  However, none of them  “confirm” anythng, and are simply opinions expressed to explain their reasoning in reaching a final ruling against the antifluoridationists.  The following is the summary in complete and proper context:

“After a series of cases that have been running since 2014, the Supreme Court has released two decisions dismissing New Health New Zealand Inc's various challenges to drinking-water fluoridation.

The Court dealt with the claims in two separate judgments. In the first judgment the Court addressed New Health's challenge to South Taranaki District Council's decision to fluoridate drinking-water supplies in Patea and Waverley. In particular, the Court addressed New Health's claims:

• That the Council did not have the necessary statutory powers to fluoridate drinking-water supplies
• That mass water fluoridation breached the right to refuse medical treatment, as set out in section 11 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act (BORA).

Although their reasoning sometimes differed, all of the Justices except Elias CJ agreed that the Council did have the necessary statutory powers to fluoridate drinking-water supplies.

On the BORA point, the analysis was complex. William Young J agreed with the Court of Appeal's finding that water fluoridation is not a medical treatment for the purpose of section 11. In contrast, the other Justices found that drinking-water fluoridation is a medical treatment. However, O'Regan and France JJ concluded that, despite engaging section 11: "the provisions authorising the fluoridation of drinking water limit the s 11 right only to an extent that is demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society for the purposes of s 5 of [the BORA]". Glazebrook J also agreed section 11 was engaged, but in contrast, noted that satisfaction of section 5 would depend on local conditions and declined to analyse the point further. Overall, while the Justices were divided in their reasoning, the majority agreed that the appeal must be dismissed. Elias CJ differed, giving a minority judgment which concluded that "an interpretation of the legislation which recognises an implied power to add fluoride to water is inconsistent with s 11 of the [BORA]".

In the second judgment, the Court addressed New Health's challenge to the validity of the Medicines Amendment Regulations 2015, which had declared that fluoridating agents for use in water supply were not medicines for the purposes of the Medicines Act. The Court was united in dismissing this appeal, finding, in essence, that because the Regulations were made for a lawful purpose (clarity) and were prospective in nature, they were valid. The Court also agreed with the Court of Appeal that New Health's other challenges to the Medicines Act were moot, and the appeal was dismissed.”

Now, with that settled, Bill, do you care to comment on the recently released results of the National Toxicology Program study which you, yourself, instigated, and which your FAN promoted and pledged to closely monitor?  It’s probably no coincidence that FAN has chosen to remain deafeningly silent on these results, given that they reject, in no uncertain terms, the claims of FAN. 

Steven D. Slott, DDS

[BillO538145]

Dr. Slott,

Yes I agree with you the court dismissed the cases.  However, I think you will agree that the quote I cut and pasted that fluoridation is a medicine, is accurate. 

In the USA we call medicines . . . drugs.   The FDA (Food and Drug Administration) has jurisdiction over drugs in the USA and has not approved the ingestion of fluoride with the intent to prevent dental caries. . . no NDA . . . no drug approval process. 

Why have proponents never received FDA approval to ingest the fluoride drug?  FDA has rejected approval because the evidence of efficacy is "incomplete."  The FDA calls unapproved drugs "illegal."   

When people attack the messenger, it is a loud statement they don't have the evidence to counter the message.

Paul Connett PhD is Director of FAN.  I'm too busy treating patients. . . some with dental fluorosis.  I am Board Chair of the organization (AEHSP) over FAN.  If you want to talk about dentistry, fluoride or other issues, I'm with you.  If you want to attack people, I'm not interested. 

You asked about the NTP study.  Good question.  Three steps to their review.  The first part of the NTP review was available animal studies.  The result was "moderate" evidence of developmental neurotoxicity from fluoride. 

Second, NTP proposed to do research to fill in one or more gaps in the animal research.  The resulting NTP study is the study you are refering to and I will comment on it below.

Third part of the report is a review of the human research.  The human research review was to come out late 2017 and did not.  I contacted NTP and was told Spring of 2018.  We are not past Spring and I expect the report anytime.  Why the delay?  The NTP told me that should the human research also show a "moderate" risk, both animal and human moderates would indicate fluoride is designated as a developmental neurotoxicant. 

You ask specifically about the animal study NTP did on animals.  The study has serious limitations, in my opinion.  A big one was the choice of animals.  I don't know of any animal more resistant to the effects of fluoride than the one they chose.  The second item I objected to in their study was the age of the animals tested. 

Because the testing was for "developmental neurotoxic" effects, it would seem reasonable to test the effects of fluoride when the neurological system was in its most critical developmental phases.  Avoiding giving fluoride to the animals while during the development of the neurologic system would make no sense.   NTP started the study after the animals were weened.  In other words, prenatal and early development of the neurologic system was not included in the study.  Many children get a huge dose of fluoride when fluoridated water is mixed with formula rather than breast fed (mother's milk contains almost no fluoride.) 

The study is not without merit, simply has limitations.  In fact, the results help us focus on the possibility of the most harm happening during early exposure, consistent with the Bashash human study and others.  If we are going to test the effect of fluoride on development, the fluoride should be given during development. . . wouldn't you agree?   And because fluoride affects the genetic systems, a good study would start prior to conception and the development of the sperm and egg in dad and mom. 

So much to learn about fluoride which science has not even begun to explore.  Sad that tradition forces people to ingest a medicine with so little research which has had mixed results.

I do not give my consent to be medicated with fluoridated water.

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH 

[StevenS353310]

Bill, first of  all, you need to cease attempting the “poor victim” tactic of claiming personal attacks when there are none.  Such  tactics do not belong in intelligent discourse.  Attacking the misinformation you post does not constitute a personal attack, and the posting of false claims and misinformation does not make you a “messenger”.  

1.  As I have clearly stated, the out-of-context quote you posted is nothing but the personal opinions of 3 justices of the NZ Supreme Court, while you conveniently omitted  the opinion of another, which differed  from those 3.  Such opinions are just that....opinions.  They carry no more weight than do the opinions of anyone else, and confirm nothing.  What does  confirm, and carry the weight of law, is the ruling by these justices that the arguments made to overturn the lower court rulings against the antifluoridationists were without merit, that the appeal was rejected, and that the lower rulings stand.  

There is nothing accurate about posting out-of-context quotes and implying them to be legal rulings.  

2.  What you personally call anything is irrelevant, and does not represent what “In the USA we call”  anything, whatsoever.  Your personal nomenclature has no bearing on this discussion.

3.  There are no drugs involved in water fluoridation, thus, there is no “drug approval process”  necessary for this initiative.

The  US FDA has no jurisdiction over the content of drinking water supplies.  What the FDA approves or does not approve has no relevance to optimal level fluoride in public water supplies.  This is fact.   

That said, the FDA does have jurisdiction over consumable retail products.  This includes fluoridated bottled water.  The FDA has approved the following claim to be made about this water:  “Drinking fluoridated water may reduce the risk of [dental caries or tooth decay].” 

Obviously, the FDA has no problem with fluoride in water at the appropriate concentration.  It is a mystery as to why you believe they do.

4.  Yes, I’m aware that Paul Connett has recently resumed the position of FAN Director from which he had retired.  Do you deny that you were the Director, or Interim Director,  of FAN during a portion of the time after he retired?

Given that the AEHSP has no apparent function other than to cloak FAN, thereby keeping FAN finances hidden from public scrutiny,  and that the Board of Directors of AEHSP is the same as that for FAN, your extensive involvement with that antifluoridationist group is clear. 

5.  I have no desire  to talk about, “dentistry, fluoride, or other issues” with you.  I simply correct the misinformation you post.

6.  Your obsession with people attacking other people is somewhat bizarre, as I see no evidence of that occurring here.

7.  The only dental fluorosis which may be associated with optimally fluoridated water is mild to very mild, a barely detectable effect which causes no adversity on cosmetics, form, function, or health of teeth.  This level of dental fluorosis requires no treatment.   If you are cutting down mildly fluorosed teeth and placing veneers as you have implied in the past needs to be done for such teeth,  then you are arguably committing malpractice and your state dental board should be notified.  

8. While I appreciate your being the sole FAN associate having the courage to finally comment on the NTP study, your arguments against it are not very compelling, to say the least.

A.  First of all, the result of the initial NTP literature review was not “ ‘moderate’ evidence of developmental neurotoxicity from fluoride.”  as you claim.  It was a reported finding of  moderate level of evidence suggesting adverse cognitive effect in animals exposed to fluoride as adults, and low level of evidence suggesting cognitive impairment in animals exposed during development. Given that you, yourself, claim in this comment that “it would seem reasonable to test the effects of fluoride when the neurological system was in its most critical developmental phases.”, then the lowest level of evidence for cognitive impairment was in the group you admit to being the most  critical.  

B.    That you are not aware of any animals “more resistant to the effects of fluoride than the one they chose” is not a very convincing argument.  Assumedly, you are not an expert in the physiology and pharmacokinetics of rats relative to all other animals.

C. You instigated the NTP review.  FAN touted and promoted the study, lavishing praise onto the “cutting edge scientific tools” and integrity which the NTP would employ in this study.  Now that the results of the study found no evidence to support  FAN claims of neurotoxicity  or other purported adverse effects of fluoride in these animals, you deem the study to have had serious limitations, and the methodology of the NTP researchers to have been flawed.   

Hmmm......Perhaps you should have found a more competent and reliable toxicology program than the NTP  to have performed the study you requested.   Oh, wait.....there is no such entity.

D.  Anecdotal claims about what the NTP told you really have no relevance at this point.

9.  There is no medicine involved in water fluoridation.  There are simply fluoride ions, identical to those which have always existed in water.  Your claim of “so little research” could not be any more ludicrous.  Water fluoridation has been the most studied public health initiative in history.  PubMed lists over 50,000 studies on fluoride.

“So little research”??  Seriously, Bill?

10. Your consent is not required for local officials to approve the concentration level of existing fluoride in public water supplies under their jurisdiction.  If you don’t want to consume such water, then don’t.  Entirely your choice.

Steven D. Slott, DDS

[BillO538145]

Steve Slott,

Science should not be treated like religion or politics.  Shooting the messenger does not prove science.  Historically, religions and governments shot the messenger.  Science focuses on the message.  

To your numbered points:

1.    Please read my post again and I agree, the NZ Court ruled in favor of fluoridation.  But the judges did acknowledge some key points.  They did say fluoride is a medicine, although the case was not specifically on determining whether fluoride is a medicine.  I'm not a lawyer. . . as you know.  But I do agree that since fluoride pills are drugs, simply diluting the pill in water does not make it anything else.  The intent of use makes it a drug/medicine.  And important to note, the ingestion of fluoride has never gone through the drug approval process in any country.

3.   The US FDA has approved fluoride topical use in toothpaste with warnings not to swallow.  Drug Fact.   

And the FDA testified to Congress fluoride is a drug when used with intent to prevent disease.

And NZ judges agreed fluoride is a drug. . . .

And Washington State judge agreed fluoride is a drug. . . .

And the Washington State Board of Pharmacy determined fluoride is a drug. . . 

And the Idaho State Board of Pharmacy determined fluoride is a drug. . . .

The FDA is clear, their interpretation of the FD&C Act is any substance with a health (mitigation, treatment, prevention, cure of disease)  claim is a drug, even a placebo is a drug and needs NDA.   Dilution or efficacy is not the criteria of whether a substance is a drug.  The intent of use, claim by the manufacturer for marketing defines the substance as a drug.   

In all state laws which I have reviewed, fluoride fits within the definition of a highly toxic substance, poison.  There are strict penalties for adding poisons to water.  However, there are two exemptions to poison laws, when they are regulated under pesticide or drug laws.  

Your comment suggests there are no drugs involved with fluoridation.  OK, then the law gives the choice of either fluoride is regulated as a pesticide or a poison.  Which would you prefer?  Drug, pesticide, or poison?  There are no other options. Fluoride is not a food and is not added to treat water.  Fluoride is not added to treat water and make it safer, rather fluoride is added with the intent to prevent disease in humans.  Just because arsenic naturally occurs in water does not mean a person could legally add more arsenic.

The EPA legal council clearly stated the addition of fluoride to water is under the jurisdiction of the FDA.  And the FDA said the EPA has responsibility.  You have suggested the FDA has no problem with fluoride in water.  Really?  Has anyone tried to get a New Drug Approval (NDA) from the FDA for fluoride diluted in water. Fluoride added to bottled water did not go through the NDA process and receive approval.  The FDA did not evaluate any science on the efficacy or safety of fluoride.  The FDA was notified of a health claim that was going to be put on bottled water based on other government agencies supporting fluoride ingestion.  The FDA and EPA avoid fluoride regulation due to politics, not science.

And what about fluoride supplements?  We know full well the FDA withdrew approval of fluoride supplements because the evidence of efficacy was incomplete.   Swallowing fluoride with the intent to prevent dental caries has never been approved with a NDA.  

  Suppose we add a small amount of penacillin to water with a claim the water helped prevent bacterial infections?  Certainly we would need FDA NDA. 

4.  FAN.  I have never received any money from FAN or AEHSP.  I am a volunteer.  Ethically and morally I am trying to stop my patients and humans from being harmed.  

5.  You wrote, " I have no desire  to talk about, “dentistry, fluoride, or other issues” with you.  I simply correct the misinformation you post."   Sounds like you are doing what you don't want to do.   A paradigm shift can be uncomfortable.  

7.   Dental fluorosis.  You have suggested the only dental fluorosis associated with "optimally" fluoridated water is mild to very mild.   Then why does the NHANES 2010-2011 CDC survey in the USA show 20% of adolescents with moderate/severe dental fluorosis.   I would agree if a person only received fluoride from fluoridated water, we would not see moderate/severe cases of dental fluorosis.  

Do you disagree with the NHANES survey?  Why?  Where are they wrong?  What are the other sources of fluoride?  Or is the dental fluorosis due to synergistic chemical effects?  The huge increases in dental fluorosis should be alarming to everyone.  

And what sources of fluoride should be reduced to lower the risk of harm?  Fluoride pesticides? 

Fluoride toothpaste?

Fluoride chemicals?

Fluoride medications?

Fluoride added to water?   HHS suggested lowering the fluoride concentration in water, which was a good start, but not enough.

8.  NTP study.  You don't find my arguments compelling?  Well, for scientists, no single study is proof of anything.  We evaluate the weight of evidence, the quality of studies.  The NTP only did one study.  We can't hang our hats and declare ingestion of fluoride is safe for the developing brain, based on one study.  There are some human studies which have found no harm to the brain.  But for every study which did not find harm to the brain there are more than six which have found harm.  And as we are still in the infancy of studying the fluoride/brain relationship, the research is becoming more focused and of higher quality.  Several studies a year on humans are being published and the vast majority report harm at ever lower dosages.

The relavance of what the NTP told me is important.  They are not finished with their report.  Perhaps one should wait for them to finish their report before one pops open the champaign.

9.  Yes, I maintain so little quality research on fluoride has been done.  Not a single prospective randomized controlled trial on fluoridation or fluoride ingestion with the intent to prevent dental caries.  You mention 50,000 studies in your search.  Yet not one RCT????  They can be done and maybe they have and found no benefit. 

Yes, fluoride has been used to cause cancer in animals so new cancer drugs can be tested.  But those kinds of studies do not prove fluoride is either safe or effective.  

10.   You have suggested ingesting fluoridated water is my choice.  Perhaps you should read the NZ court case again.  The judges found one could not avoid fluoridated water, they did not agree fluoridated water is an individual's choice.  

For me, the bottom line is:

1.  Too many are ingesting too much fluoride.  (NHANES and EPA)

2.  Dosage of water is highly variable, some drinking very little and some drinking a great deal.  Distribution of any substance without control of dosage is problematic.

3.  Freedom of choice is violated.

4.  Fluoride's effect is primarily topical, not systemic.

5.  Many studies report risks to most cells and systems of the body.

6.  Some individuals are chemically very sensitive.

Fluoridation is one of my professions greatest blunders.

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH