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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 1371 of 1,448
"Thousands" ??? The last time I checked (2014) there were exactly 341 dentists who had signed FAN's world-wide promoted petition to end fluoridation. The reason there are so few is that community water fluoridation is safe, effective and inexpensive.

In 2014 there were about 175,000 dentist in the US alone. dentists. 341/175000 = 0.2%
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 1372 of 1,448

For the purpose of disclosure, the commenter who hides behind the psedonym “CaryAnne” on this site, and other pseudonyms on other sites all over the internet, is Karen Spencer, a Massachusetts activist who is closely affiliated with the New York antifluoridationist faction, FAN, a group notirious for disseminating large amounts of misinformation about the public health initiative of water fluoridation.  

 

Ideological opposition to water fluoridation has existed amongst small pockets of ultra-conservatives since the post WW II anti-government paranoia of those such as the John Birch Society at the very beginning of this initiative 73 years ago.  Current antifluoridation activists are simply the latest generation of those who have attempted to keep this ideology alive through the decades.  The advent of the internet has accorded these little groups unfettered and immediate access to a worldwide audience, and constant, collaborative contact with each other to a degree never having before been possible.  As Spencer notes, in recent years, this heretofore unfettered dissemination of misinformation has become more and more challenged by those such as the American Fluoridation Society whose members have the knowledge and expertise to fully expose the fallacies and dishonesty of their claims.  The result is frustrated personal attacks and libelous claims such as that put forth by Spencer. 

 

There is little, if anything, in Spencer’s personal attack against the American Fluoridation Society and its members which bears any resemblance to the truth.  As a non-profit, the organization is fully transparent, with information about the organization and its members readily  available  on its website:

 

www.americanfluoridationsociety.org

 

The members of AFS are all healthcare providers who volunteer their time, efforts knowledge, and expertise for no compensation, to provide evidence-based facts which correct and counter the mountain of false claims and misinformation about fluoridation constantly imposed upon the public by antifluoridation activists such as Spencer and her FAN.

 

In contrast, in addition to the aforementioned concealing by these activists of their true identities while posting libelous personal attacks and misinformation, the group FAN, with which they are affiliated, cloaks its financial information and activities beneath an umbrella organization, while refusing to disclose the  individuals and organizations who drive their funding and agenda.  Readers are encouraged to seek underlying information about this group, and discern for themselves the degree to which it is hidden.   What is known is that the leaders of FAN are paid for their efforts to disparage fluoridation, that the group has a paid lobbyist, that it receives significant funding from natural food salesmen such as the dubious Joseph Mercola, and that it’s misinformation has been promoted by the conspiracy theorist Alex Jones and his “Infowars”.  

 

So, the question here is whether AARP members would rather trust evidence-based information on a healthcare issue provided by healthcare providers who are fully open and transparent about who they are, and who rely upon the latest, most up-to-date peer-reviewed science, authoritative information from those such as the  US CDC, the US EPA, the American Dental Association, the World Health Organization, and the American Academy of Pediatrics......or upon the unsubstantiated claims, misrepresentations, and misinformation of activists who have no healthcare education, training, or experience, who hide their true identities, who are paid for their services, who are backed by dubious individuals and organizations, who fail to disclose anything whatsoever about themselves or their organization, and who employ name-calling and personal attacks when backed into a corner by facts and evidence?

 

Steven D. Slott, DDS 

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 1373 of 1,448

Hi CA, or Karen Spencer, or whomever is hiding behing this name,

 

Your list speaks volumes about those opposed to water fluoridation. 

 

Take the IAOMT. The definition of this group from RationalWiki sums it up best:

 

"The International Academy of Oral Medicine and Toxicology (IAOMT) is a quack organization based in Canada that promotes dental woo.[1] They were responsible for the "smoking tooth" video that frequently gets passed around in altie circles. Their main issue is mercury amalgam fillings, which they claim can cause all sorts of neurological illnesses such as Parkinson's and autism. They sell filling removal kits for "dentists" along with various other nature woo, mostly vitamin supplements. The organization also opposes water fluoridation, claims to put out peer-reviewed "research," and supports "health freedom." 

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/International_Academy_of_Oral_Medicine_and_Toxicology

 

Thanks for bringing forward your group of opposition.  Now our readers truly can understand who these folks are and what they stand for.

 

Johnny Johnson, Jr., DMD, MS

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 1374 of 1,448

“While four out of five dentists may be enough to pick a gum, all should agree before we force-medicate the public.” - Judge Peter Vallone, Jr., former Chair of the NYC Public Safety Committee (2012) 

 

Thousands of scientists and dentists oppose fluoridation based on 21st century evidence. The IAOMT is a professional organization with a scientific mission. IAOMT membership is dentists, oral medicine doctors & toxicologists. See their 2017 Position Paper Against Fluoride Use for Dental and Medical Practitioners, Dental and Medical Students, Consumers, and Policy Makers. They are one professional organization from over a dozen who openly oppose fluoridation in the 21st century. 

 

Thousands of professionals object, and this thread begun in February 2015 includes quotes from many of them. Moreover, it is an individual human right to choose what substance to take into one's own body. Fluoridation policy is medical treatment without individual medical consent that conveniently ignores those who have medical contraindications, which includes many senior citizens. For a small troop of trolls to insinuate that they are the only experts in an attempt to shut down this conversation in support of fluoridation decrees that poison baby boomers is bullying 101. 

 

  • I encourage anyone new to this thread to go to the oldest posts to read science and testimony of senior citizens harmed by fluoridation. Going forward, this thread will be pretty useless, as I stated in my last entry re the troll attack. 

 

See just a couple of pages of those dentists, doctors and scientists with integrity and courage who openly oppose fluoridation based on evidence of harm. More on FluorideAlert.org:

DentistsDoctors1.jpgDentistsDoctors2.jpg

 

 

 

 

and a page of community leadership quotes from 2017: 

PoliticiansOpposed.jpg

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 1375 of 1,448

Hello Sirpac & Carrie Anne,

 

First, dentists possess dental degrees, not decrees in the U.S. and around the world as I know it. We are Doctors if Dental Medicine (DMD) and Doctors of Dental Surgery (DDS). 

 

Secondly, we do not state

personal opinions in disseminating evidence-based scientific research. We are held to a higher standard of ethics and moral behavior as doctors. We have to accurate and evidence-based in our world of scientific expertise. We can’t simply quote our interpretations of the literature. Others may choose to do so. And when they do, their feet are held to the fire by the scientific community. 

 

Someone once said that the truth only hurts once. Another said don’t go away mad, just go away. 

 

Just sayin’

 

Johnny Johnson, Jr., DMD, MS

Pediatric Dentist

Life Fellow, American Academy of Pediatric Dentistry 

Diplomate American Board of Pediatric Dentistry

President, American Fluoridation Society, a not for profit organization of healthcare professionals dedicated to the dissemination of credible evidence-based scientific research that has been published in credible recognized peer reviewed scientific journals 

www.AmericanFluoridationSociety.org

 

P.S.  Have the courtesy to use your real names as we do. Hiding behind fake names and attacking the folks here is cowardly

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 1376 of 1,448

Dr. Johnson isn't telling you the whole story about the 2006 National Research Council's (NRC) Review of Fluoride in Drinking Water; A Scientific Review of EPA's Standards.

 

The NRC reports that there is clear evidence that small amounts of fluoride, at or near levels added to U.S. water supplies, present potential risks to the thyroid gland.

 

According to a co-author of the NRC Report “Many Americans are exposed to fluoride in the ranges associated with thyroid effects, especially for people with iodine deficiency,” says Kathleen Thiessen, PhD,  “The recent decline in iodine intake in the U.S could contribute to increased toxicity of fluoride for some individuals,” says Thiessen.


Robert Carton, PhD, an environmental scientist who worked for over 30 years for the U.S. government including managing risk assessments on high priority toxic chemicals, says “fluoride has detrimental effects on the thyroid gland of healthy males at 3.5 mg a day. With iodine deficiency, the effect level drops to 0.7 milligrams/day for an average male.” (the levels recommended in public water supplies)

Among many others, the NRC Report cites human studies which show 

- fluoride concentrations in thyroids exceeding that found in other soft tissues except kidney

- an association between endemic goiter and fluoride exposure or enamel fluorosis in human populations

- fluoride adversely affects thyroid and parathyroid hormones, which affect bone health 

Further, Scientific American quotes John Doull, professor emeritus of pharmacology and toxicology at the University of Kansas Medical Center, who chaired the NRC committee thusly, “The thyroid changes do worry me.” 

In fact, both the ADA and CDC have voiced concerns about fluoride's toxic thyroid effects.  And the National Kidney Foundation dropped its fluoridation endosement because of the evidence presented in the 2006 NRC report.

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 1377 of 1,448
Fluoridation policy is a medical mandate that forces contaminated product into the bodies of convenient consumers regardless of harm caused to millions with inflammatory, immune system, thyroid or kidney diseases.  
The narrative promoted by fluoridation policy suppresses emerging science, silences evolving medical opinions and stifles the voices of victims. 

 

It seems the troop of trolls who for the past decade or so has overwhelmed every letter to the editor in small town newspapers across the country with scores of vitriolic personal attacks and reams of copy and paste disinformation in order to bully community members into silence has found this thread about the medical contraindications of fluoride consumption, particularly for senior citizens.

 

This 'rapid response team' was originally organized by Pew Charitable Trusts as part of their special interest funded fluoridation initiative. The team is sent daily email alerts with sample comments. The media consultant in charge recommends inserting 'outrage and anger' into comments in order to shut down civil dialogue. The North Carolina dentist on this thread once posted 179 vitriolic comments out of 215 comments on a social media thread in Massachusetts. The pro-fluoride machine also employs social media experts and astroturfers for the purpose of 'expanding and protecting community water fluoridation.'

 

A couple of years ago, the most active trolls founded their own non-profit advocacy group in order to monetize their hobby. Apparently Delta Dental made the first $50,000 donation. I am given to understand the members may contract their services personally to assist pro-fluoridation entitities with political style attacks on fluoridation opponents. Consequently, unless AARP bans Johnny Johnson, Steve Slott, Chuck Haynie and the rest of their gang of gunslingers when they show up, the usefulness of this thread from here on out is ended.

 

  • Therefore, I encourage those who are interested in fluoridation science to go the the oldest posts and read in chronological order so as to get the benefit of the AARP members who have told their personal stories as well as useful scientific information relevant to senior citizens. 

 

To track all fluoride science, see the Study Tracker on the Fluoride Alert website and the IAOMT webpage that includes their 2017 position paper against any fluoride use with 500 citations. 

 

Organizations Openly Opposed to Fluoridation include:

  1. AAEM: American Academy of Environmental Medicine 
  2. ICIM: International College of Integrative Medicine
  3. IABDM: International Academy of Biological Dentists and Medicine
  4. IAOMT: International Academy of Oral Medicine and Toxicology
  5. HDA: Holistic Dental Association
  6. EWG: Environmental Working Group
  7. CHEJ: Center for Health, Environment & Justice
  8. Sierra Club: Environmentalists 
  9. ICA: International Chiropractors Association
  10. OCA: Organic Consumers Association
  11. FWW: Food & Water Watch
  12. CAAP: Coalition of African American Pastors
  13. LULAC: League of United Latin American Citizens

 

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 1378 of 1,448
You are kidding. The medical mandate for vaccination ensures herd immunity. Measles requires over 90% vaccination to achieve that. About 1/600 children with measles develop brain infections which are usually fatal. You oppose the CDC and the world's pediatric disease experts on the basis of a bunch of stuff you've copied off the Internet. Opposing vaccination mandates is particular nonsense for an advocate for older people some of whom may have either missed their childhood vaccines or with time no longer have an effective immune response. These elderly rely on the herd immunity in children to avoid an epidemic infecting them. . . .

Surely these ideas are easily identified as science denying mistakes.

C. Haynie, M.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 1379 of 1,448

“CaryAnne”

 

Yes, please do see Dr. Limeback’s false claims, half-truths, and personal attacks in regard to the article by Dr. Johnson.  His claims are fully addressed and corrected in subsequent comments on that page, as are those of other fluoridation opponents who chose to post irresponsible and unsubstantiated claims on that page.  Your choosing to pluck and post Limeback’s erroneous claims here, implying that they are somehow credible, without posting the rebuttals to those claims, puts you in the same, irresponsible category as those opponents posting on Dr. BIscupid.

 

Limeback’s comment as well as the evidence-based rebuttals to his vlaims may be found:

 

https://www.drbicuspid.com/Forum/tm.aspx?high=&m=9051&mpage=1#9062

 

In addition, if you can produce any valid evidence, whatsoever, that any of what Dr. Johnson has posted on this page is “disinformation”, as you claim, then do so.  Your inevitable failure produce any such evidence will be further evidence of your dishonesty and attempt to intentionally deceive the AARP membership.

 

In the future, you might also consider having the courage to disclose your real name instead of posting your attacks while hiding behind pseudonyms.  

 

 

Steven D. Slott, DDS

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 1380 of 1,448

It is an easily verifiable fact that America's Pediatricians, Family Physicians and Internal Medicine Specialists along with well over 100 other groups of sophisticated, committed  legitimate scientists and professionals are on easily verified public record affirming this decision.   Fluoridation at the optimal concentration of 0.7 ppm prevents cavities, saves tons of money with lower dental bills and is completely safe.   

The concerns and opposing arguments raised here have been dissected with reviews of all the relevant science in many systematic reviews done both in the US and around the world.   There is a unanimity that fluoridation prevents cavities and is safe.  Many older people can no longer brush their teeth well and if in a residential care facility may have minimal or no oral health care.  The only dental care they receive is from their tap water.  

Given the overwhelming professional and scientific consensus in support, how can a mainstream organization like AARP even consider opposing.  If they wish to change positions on fluoridation, Dr. Limeback and others have an obligation to make their case before legitimate scientific forums and not simply bring arguments to lay audiences that have been rejected by experts.

Anyone wishing to learn more about the importance of community water fluoridation should start here:

American Academy of Pediatrics
https://ilikemyteeth.org/

Centers for Disease Control (CDC)
https://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/index.html

American Fluoridation Society
https://americanfluoridationsociety.org/

British Fluoridation Society
https://www.bfsweb.org/

American Dental Association
https://www.ada.org/en/public-programs/advocating-for-the-public/fluoride-and-fluoridation


While community water fluoridation (CWF) is not a silver bullet, it importantly decreases the oral health disparities which come with economic disadvantage.   To argue against CWF is to argue for greater pain, suffering, greater health inequality and lifelong oral health disadvantage for people of all ages.

C. Haynie, M.D.

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