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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 331 of 1,333

Dr. Sauerheber,

 

You are claiming that there is nothing deceptive about this photograph of teeth belonging to someone who has never drank artifically fluoridated water being used as an argument against it.  

 

Ok.  Well that says a lot about your standards regarding the level of deceptiveness you are willing to accept (provided the deceptiveness in question supports your bias).

 

Beyond that obvious deception, these teeth have been diagnosed by attorney Michael Connett as having Mild Dental Fluorosis.  You are telling me that the obvious stains on them are Colorado Brown Stain.  Photographer Limeback said they were orange stains which he believed were iron.  I suppose the color is irrelevant here.

 

But Wait!  There is even more deceptiveness about this photograph.  This article is all about arguing against Community Water Fluoridation (CWF).  And it is true that Very Mild and Mild Dental Fluorosis can be associated with CWF.  (Kumar has demonstrated that these teeth are healthier and more resistant to decay - but that is irrelevant to this discussion.)  So the implication that is being made with this photograph is - this is what happens from drinking water which has been fluoridated to the optimal level. 

 

According to standard and widely accepted Dean's Index used for the diagnosis of Dental Fluorosis --

 

Very Mild Dental Fluorosis is defind as teeth having, "Small, opaque, paper white areas scattered irregularly over the tooth but not involving as much as approximately 25% of the tooth surface. Frequently included in this classification are teeth showing no more than about 1 – 2mm of white opacity at the tip of the summit of the cusps, of the bicuspids or second molars."

 

Nothing about Colorado Brown Stain there.

 

Mild Dental Fluorosis , which is what these teeth are defined as having, is, "The white opaque areas in the enamel of the teeth are more extensive but do involve as much as 50% of the tooth."

 

Hmmm . . Nothing about Colorado Brown Stain there either.  Isn't that interesting.

 

Moderate Dental Fluorosis, which is not associated with CWF, is defined as, "All enamel surfaces of the teeth are affected and surfaces subject to attrition show wear. Brown stain is frequently a disfiguring feature."

 

Colorado Brown Stain, which you seem convinced that these teeth have, is a characteristic of Moderate Dental Fluorosis . . . But these teeth are diagnosed as having Mild Dental Fluorosis - which, again, can be associated with CWF.  

 

This photograph is not an example of what happens from drinking optimally fluoridated water.  This photograph is a lie.

 

Still want to stick with your story that there is nothing deceptive about the use of this photograph as an argument against CWF on a website whose sole motive is to generate fear and paranoia about CWF?

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 332 of 1,333

In colorado springs the brown stain was also attributed to iron that gained access to teeth interiors because of fluoride in drinking water. Regardless of the source of fluoride ingestiin during childhood, fluorosis is an undesired abnormality.

It is,deceptive to claim it is something to be desired to reduce caries, when thinned enamel cannot protect against caries. 

 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 333 of 1,333

Dr. Sauerheber,  

 

Dr. Limeback had said, "There is a history behind that case to which you refer on the Fluorideaction.net website. That young man had fluoride supplements because he grew up in a non-fluoridated area."

 

So what we have here are the iron stained teeth of a young man who grew up in a non-fluoridated area.  The man had a history of not drinking artifically fluoridated water.  

 

The photograph of these iron stained teeth are being used as an unsightly example on a website dedicated to the abolition of community water fluoridation.  

 

You don't see that as deceptive?  Interesting.

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 334 of 1,333

Stained fluorotic teeth are common in areas of Colorado where fluoride is significant in drinking water. The name Colorado brown stain" was given for the affliction in the 1930's. So why is that "deceptive" to give an example of what can commonly happen to flurotic teeth since fluorosis leaves teeth with enamel hypoplasia (thin enamel) that is more subject to staining than normal teeth which do not contian fluoride?

This is not deceptive at all.

The observatiuon of good teeth in one country and poor teeth in another is not due to fluoride ingestion. Fluoride ingestion has nothing to do with dental caries, as proven in detailed perfectly controlled animal studies and in our largest epidemiiologic human studies. The presence of flujoride salt and the absence of fluoridated water are an anecdotal coincidental correlation.There are many regions where caries are lower when the water is devoid of fluoride and higher when the water is high in fluoride. This is because eating fluoride has absolutely nothing to do with dental caries. It is calcium content of the diet and the lack of sugar in the diet that have the largest effect., as prove4n inthe 30 year massive study by Teotia and Teotia.

What is deceptive is to claim that low levels of fluoride that are harmless even to salmon can somehow magically harden the hardest substance in the body, teeth enamel.

And what is deceptive is the article that was published by the Asso.Press this week by the CDC, who bames the high incidence of dental fluorosis in U.S. teens on kids using too much toothpaste when brushing. Wow. No mention of the fact that the CDC endorses water fluoridation which is responsible for 80% of the fluoride ion found in one's bloodsream in a fluoridated city (NRC, 2006). Unbelievable stupidity at best, and at worst downright deception and finger pointing to avoid litigation and any possible correction of following a deceptive false correlation to its full course..

 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 335 of 1,333

Dr. Bill, sorry I haven't gotten back to you sooner, I just got back from the Carribean.  And I have to say, while there is a lot of poverty in St. Lucia, the teeth of these people appeared to me to be in great shape.  There is no visable decay whatsoever.  I understand this country adds fluoride to its salt. 

 

This was quite a contrast to other countries where I have stayed.  For example, I spent a considerable amount of time in Afghanistan.  The teeth of those people were / are visibly rotting out of their heads and you can see the pain they are in.  It is a disgrace.  And you should be ashamed of yourself in your efforts to take us back to that point in time where so much suffering exists. 

 

Your quote (Timestamp ‎01-16-2019 06:31 PM):

 

"David,

 

I have not read anything in your posts which gives me the feeling that you honestly want my professional opinion on anything.  Your only interest in my comments is to demean me, attack me, try to prove me wrong, misquote, disparge and rip me apart like you have done to others.  Why should I put myself in that position?  I'm not insane."

 

Response:  You are wrong.  Please point out to me where I have misquoted you or anyone else in any way and I will be happy to retract and apologize.  For example, I had said that Dr. Richard claimed that water fluoridation killed the salmon in the Sacramento River.   He rightly pointed out to me that he never said that.  He said CWF was responsible for the collapse of the salmon industry in the Sacramento River.  I was very happy to apologize and amend my comment.  

 

So, just for the record, please point out to me where I have misquoted you. 

 

Your quote:  "you have repeatedly said the same disparaging attack over and over again, "Dr. Limeback's deceptive photograph. . . ."    Have you contacted Dr. Limeback?  Have you asked him to explain his comments?  What has been his response?"

 

Response:  If you have bothered to read my comments, you know I have.  For your review, we are discussing Dr. Limeback's photograph on this webpage  http://fluoridealert.org/studies/dental_fluorosis04b/ .  It is the second photograph in the article. 

 

This is what Dr. Limeback said about those teeth:  "There is a history behind that case to which you refer on the Fluorideaction.net website. That young man had fluoride supplements because he grew up in a non-fluoridated area.   .   .   .    BTW, no one as yet has determined what the orange colour represents. My expert opinion is that it is extra iron incorporation into the enamel . . "

 

So, Dr. Bill, I truly would like your professional opinion about this.  I will ask you the same question I have asked him.  Don't you think it is a little deceptive to use a photograph of iron stained teeth (as the most obvious markings have nothing to do with fluoride), diagnose these teeth as having  "Mild Dental Fluorosis" and allow them to be put on a website dedicated to the abolition of community water fluoridation, when the patient himself grew up in a non-fluoridated area and did not have a history of drinking artificially fluoridated water?

 

Simple question, yes or no.  Do you consider that deceptive?  What is your professional opinion?

 

 

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Alzheimer's Association removes name from ADA list

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Message 336 of 1,333

“In large measure, those marred by dementia are showing the results of toxicity from mercury, aluminum, lead, cadmium, arsenic and other heavy metals. Their neurons have been poisoned. They are turned into Alzheimer’s victims directly through the efforts of dentists who blindly follow the party line of their trade union organization, the ADA.” - Dr. Morton Walker, DPM (1994)

 

Fluoride, too, Dr. Walker. This month, January 2019, the Alzheimer's Association had enough. They demanded its name be removed from the ADA & CDC lists of fluoridation supporters. 

 

Fluoridated water poisons from womb to tomb, with those on either end of that spectrum counting among the vulnerable sub-populations because of several factors, most notably their reduced kidney function to eliminate the toxin and increased permeability of the blood-brain barrier. 

 

Fluoridationists will continue to do their song and dance, but it's as futile as rearranging chairs on the Titantic. 

AlzheimersADA2019.jpgAlzheimer's Assoc off ADA list

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Can you trust the CDC & EPA?

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Message 337 of 1,333

“Official stories exist to protect officials.“ - Liam Scheff, investigative journalist and author of “Official Stories: Counter-Arguments for a Culture in Need” (2012)

 

Senator Ted Kennedy led the Congress in condemming the CDC, NMA & AMA sanctioned Tuskegee Syphillis Experiment that withheld diagnosis & treatment from infected men and their families 'in the interest of the greater good' which was to study the progression of untreated syphllis. 

 

The 1974 National Research Act and 1979 Belmont Report came out of that effort. The Safe Drinking Water Act (SDWA) was also created in 1974. It would never occur to people in general to have to write laws saying that doctors and government agencies should behave ethically and not cause suffering and spread of an infectious disease by using self-serving and immoral justifications - but there we had it. The CDC, under the direction of the Department of Health & Human Services (DHHS) and with the support of independent associations of doctors, who also endorse fluoridation, perpetuated a fraud that did exactly that.

 

The only reason that three decade 'experiment' ended was a public health service employee got fed up with trying to get the public health service to act ethically since 1966 and leaked the story to the New York Times and Senator Kennedy in 1973. 

 

This month, Sen. Kennedy's nephew, human rights activist & environmental attorney Robert F. Kennedy Jr, through the Children's Health Defense which he chairs has issued a condemnation of fluoridation as a human experiment that must end! RFK who recently won a case against Monsanto that included unearthing documents proving EPA & Monsanto collusion to hide evidence that RoundUp causes cancer has also filed fraud and obstruction of justice charges against the DHHS and its DOJ attorneys this month on another issue. 

 

Now tell me again how we should trust endorsements from the CDC, DHHS, AMA, etc. and how ethical these fluoridationist are. Also, explain how the authors of the SDWA didn't have ethics in mind when they inserted the language they did about not using water to dose people, albeit hampered by federal vs. state jurisdictional constraints. 

  • The question at hand is whether the AARP has the integirty & courage to do the right thing like the PHS employee who leaked the story to the NY Times?
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 338 of 1,333

 

Ross, 

 

A good study supporting the consensus of other studies.  

My friends just put together a few more items on fluoride and the brain.

 

FLUORIDATION’S NEUROTOXICITY

There is no question that fluoride is neurotoxic, damaging the brain and central nervous system, as documented by hundreds of studies. Extensive scientific evidence, including studies at exposures caused by fluoridated water, show it can harm children. It can NOT be declared safe.

 

2006: The National Research Council published Fluoride in Drinking Water1, the most authoritative review of

fluoride’s toxicity. It stated unequivocally that “fluorides have the ability to interfere with the functions of the brain and the body” and “the chief endocrine effects of fluoride include decreased thyroid function.”

 

2012: A Harvard-funded meta-analysis2 found that children ingesting higher levels of fluoride tested an average 7 IQ points lower in 26 out of 27 studies. Most had higher fluoride concentrations than in U.S. water, but many had total exposures to fluoride no more than what millions of Americans receive.

 

“Fluoride seems to fit in with lead, mercury, and other poisons that cause chemical brain drain.”

Philippe Grandjean, MD, PhD, Harvard study co-author, Danish National Board of Health consultant, co-editor of Environmental Health, author of over 500 scientific papers.

 

2015: A study3 covering nearly all of England found that populations drinking fluoridated water had nearly twice as

high prevalence of hypothyroidism (low thyroid level), known to be linked to IQ deficits. The study’s authors concluded there is substantial cause for public health concern.”

 

2017: A petition to EPA4 to end fluoridation found fluoride caused neurotoxic harm in 57 out of 61 human studies (mainly lowered IQ), several at levels in fluoridated water, and 112 out of 115 animal studies. EPA denied the petition, triggering a lawsuit going to trial in federal court in 2019.

 

2017: A National Institutes of Health - funded longitudinal study5 in Mexico covering 13 years, one of the most robust ever done, found that every one part per million increase in fluoride in pregnant women’s urine – approximately the difference caused by ingestion of fluoridated water6 - was associated with a reduction of their children’s IQ by an average 5-6 points. Leonardo Trasande, a leading physician unaffiliated with the study, said it raises serious concerns about fluoride supplementation in water.” 7

 

2018: A Canadian study8 representing 6.9 million people found iodine-deficient adults (nearly 18% of the population) with higher fluoride levels had a greater risk of hypothyroidism. The study’s lead scientist, Ashley Malin, said “I have grave concerns about the health effects of fluoride exposure.” 9

  1. https://www.nap.edu/catalog/11571/fluoride-in-drinking-water-a-scientific-review-of-epas-standards),

  2. Choi et al https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3491930/

  3. Peckham et al http://jech.bmj.com/content/69/7/619

  4. http://fluoridealert.org/content/content-bulletin_3-1-18/

  5. Bashash et al https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/ehp655/

  6. Till et al https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/EHP3546

  7. Newsweek, Sept. 19, 2017, https://www.newsweek.com/childrens-iq-could-be-lowered-drinking-tap-water-while-pregnant-667660

  8. Malin et al https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=till+malin+fluoride+thyroid

  9. Environmental Health News, Oct. 10, 2018, https://www.ehn.org/we-add-it-to-

 

 
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 339 of 1,333

Hello everyone,

Please remember to post according to the community guidelines, and refrain from insults and inflammatory comments.

Thank you for your cooperation in making the AARP Community a safe and welcoming place for all.
http://community.aarp.org/t5/custom/page/page-id/Guidelines

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 340 of 1,333

Regarding the effect of fluoride on the brains of rodents, the abstract of a paper titled ‘Neurotoxicity of fluoride: Neurodegeneration in hippocampus of female mice’ (Bhatnagar et al., 2002) published in the Indian Journal of Experimental Biology reads:

“Light microscopic study of hippocampal sub-regions demonstrated significant number of degenerated nerve cell bodies in the CA3, CA4 and dentate gyrus(Dg) areas of sodium fluoride administered adult female mice. Ultrastructural studies revealed neurodegenrative characteristics like involution of cell membranes, swelling of mitochondria, clumping of chromatin material etc. can be observed in cell bodies of CA3, CA4 and dentate gyrus (Dg). Fluoride intoxicated animals also performed poorly in motor co-ordination tests and maze tests. Inability to perform well increased with higher fluoride concentration in drinking water.”

See full paper at IJEB 40(5) 546-554.pdf

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