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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 391 of 1,364

Richard, you say, "Why do I have to respond to anyone who calls me an "alternative heath pimp"?"

 

Response:  Actually that comment was directed toward billo.  He was the former director of the Fluoride Action Network which unashamedly has taken money from the unethical alternative health - multi million dollar alternative health company, Mercola.  Mercola has already received 4 warning letters from the FDA for unethical sales practices.  Mercola also happens to sell a lot of very expensive merchandise, which sells better when people are afraid of their drinking water and afraid of fluoride.

 

I hope that clears things up.  

 

I will look at your links and comment on them tomorrow.  Thank you for providing them.

 

 

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 392 of 1,364

And I am now accused of not filing litigation against fluoridation in a denigrating manner since I supposedly have access to millions of dollars to pay for it say from Mercola. Wow. Ive never met or ever corresponded with mercola. How twisted can a fluoride promoter get? 

And besides, I dont believe in filing lawsuits. I learned that from my parents , that you discuss your differences until they are resolved. I dont object to thode who are in a position to file righteous lawsuits but I dont have such internal ability. So what? And you really think someone would pay me millions to sue the CDC? Please spare us.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 393 of 1,364

Dr. Osmensen is making the points that dental fluorosis is a major National problem because water fluoridation is so widesped, and that fluorotic teeth, with deficient enamel, is often accompanied by stains from other materials because the enamel does not protect the underlying dentin normally, all due to fluoride consumption. The idea that fluoridated wter is not the major cause of dental and bone fluorosis is absurd..

The fluoride sources for dental fluorosis were reviewed in a paper where it was concluded that the use of fluoridated water under age 6 should be more carefully considered. 

http://www.aapd.org/assets/1/25/Mascarenhas-22-04.pdf

Again, fluoridated water does not decrease dental caries (which most dentists who publish materials on fluorosis do not grasp). Fluoridated water does not work, either topically (Yiamouyiannis, etc. or systemically, U.S.CDC). Poisoning children with this garbage is a mistake.

 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Dentists, Dementia & Disinformation Campaigns

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Message 394 of 1,364

“It’s hazardous for us to use…. Workers have to protect themselves, including wearing face shields when handling the chemical… It’s worse than battery acid.” - Dover NH Utilities Superintendent Bill Boulanger (2017)

 

Fluoride is an enzyme poison and neurotoxicant. Fluoride causes neurological damage. Period. Fluoride adversely affects ability to learn, ability to think clearly and behavior.

 

Dentists & water workers have high occupational exposure to fluoride which contributes to workers' comp claims and higher rates of various disease among dentists, who in some respects echo the circumstances of 19th century 'hatters' who were known as 'mad' because of their exposure to mercury, a substance that is still common in American dentistry although restricted or banned in Europe and elsewhere, much like water fluoridation. 

 

Studies published in recent weeks on fluoride and dementia aren't the first of this type, but they certainly count among the best.

 

  • It may be too late for some folks with fluoride damaged brains, but shouldn't AARP which claims to advocate for all senior citizens make a statement similar to this month's condemnation of fluoridation by the Children's Health Team

 

ADULT BRAINS: First long term NaF animal study (10 weeks) using moderate levels of fluoride finds a number of histological changes including in parts of the brain associated with memory and learning, as well as chemical changes affecting brain function. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0045653518317508  

  • Pei Jiang, Gongying Li, Xueyuan Zhou, Changshui Wang, Yi Qiao, Dehua Liao, Dongmei Shi. Chronic fluoride exposure induces neuronal apoptosis and impairs neurogenesis and synaptic plasticity: Role of GSK-3b/b-catenin pathway. Chemosphere. Volume 214, January 2019, Pages 430-435.

ALZHEIMER’S DISEASE: Describes impact of fluoride-induced stress and inflammation in the development of Alzheimer’s disease and demonstrates the mechanism for cell death in the progressive worsening of the disease over time.
https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/19/12/3965 

  • Goschorska M, et al. Potential Role of Fluoride in the Etiopathogenesis of Alzheimer’s Disease. Int. J. Mol. Sci. 2018, 19 (12), 3965. 

DEMENTIA: Describes the chemical mechanism by which the effectiveness of the two most popular drugs used to treat Alzheimer’s & other neurodegenerative dementia disease is reduced or blocked by fluoride induced oxidative stress. 
https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/16/1/10/htm
 

  • Marta Goschorska, Izabela Gutowska, Irena Baranowska-Bosiacka, et al. Influence of Acetylcholinesterase Inhibitors Used in Alzheimer’s Disease Treatment on the Activity of Antioxidant Enzymes and the Concentration of Glutathione in THP-1 Macrophages under Fluoride-Induced Oxidative Stress. Int. J. Environ. Res. Public Health. 2019, 16(1), 10. 

 

MadHatter.jpgMad Hatter in Alice in Wonderland

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 395 of 1,364

Bill, you argue that I never read your comments, yet you never read mine.

 

Your quote:  "

You have repeated ad nausium photos and Limeback.   

 

Are you a dentist?  In what state are you licensed?  My memory says you denied being a dentist.

 

Are you licensed to diagnose any dental disease? DO, MD, DDS, DMD or ?   I don't think so.

 

Do you know the name of the patient in the photograph?  I'm guessing no.

 

Do your really know, factually, scietifically, with measured evidence that the patient never touched fluoridated water?  Impossible."

 

Response:  I know that this patient had never touched optimally fluoridated water because Dr. Limeback said he grew up in a non-fluoridated area, but took fluoride pills.

 

Am I a licensed MD, DDS? 

 

No, but a licensed DDS, who photographed the teeth, said he believed the teeth were iron stained, and that the patient didn't drink optimally fluoridated water. 

 

Your condescending remarks speak to the fact that you have never bothered to read the points I was making, or took the time to consider the issue at hand.

 

It says more about your closed mind than it does about mine.  

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 396 of 1,364

Hogwash. One person's "anecdotal observation" is another person's abject eyewitness certainty.  Anecdotal is relative. Anecdotal is for example articles published by fluoridation promoters who claim dental benefit when the error bars overlap between treated and controls, or when diet and brushing habits are not controlled. That may be abject truth to someone, but it is nevertheless anecdotal to a scientist. I visited the child myself and it is not anecdotal. Dental fluorosis is the first visible sign of fluoride poisoning. Sorry.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 397 of 1,364

Richard:  "And here is yet another lie. I have never written that water fluoridation in Sacramento killed all the salmon in the River."

 

Response:  You are right, Richard, and I apologize.  You said water fluoridation was responsible for the salmon collapse in Sacramento.  My mistake.

 

RS:  "I provided the evidence that a large salmon collapse was prolonged after fluoridation began in Sacramrento and explained why this could be, and that there are no salmon depositing eggs near the outflow tube that discharges the city fluoridated waste water."

 

Resonse:  No, you provided zero evidence.  You couldn't tell me the background level of fluoride in the river, you didn't account for stormwater infiltration dilluting fluoride discharge, you couldn't tell me the flow of the river, you couldn't tell me the amount of discharge into the unknown volume of the river.  You didn't account for temperature variations because of discharged effluent into the river.  You provided no autopsey reports on dead fish.  

 

Richard, exactly what evidence did you provide?

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 398 of 1,364

David,

 

Your apology is accepted, and then you attacked assuming deception.   Calm down.  Get off the personal attacks.  Read what is said.  

 

Again, you list several people and attack them personally.  But you fail to provide the data on which you base your scientific opinions.  You should be knighted by Donald Trump.  The two of you have similar thought processes, you go with your gut and the facts be ignored.

 

When concepts and statements do not fit into your box of tradition, you reject the person as "deceptive."  Again, attack the facts, not the people.   Could it be a problem of communication and understanding or is it moral intentional deception?   Calm down.  Good people on both sides of this discussion.  Calm down.

 

You have repeated ad nausium photos and Limeback.   

 

Are you a dentist?  In what state are you licensed?  My memory says you denied being a dentist.

 

Are you licensed to diagnose any dental disease? DO, MD, DDS, DMD or ?   I don't think so.

 

Do you know the name of the patient in the photograph?  I'm guessing no.

 

Do your really know, factually, scietifically, with measured evidence that the patient never touched fluoridated water?  Impossible.  Fluoridation is ubiquitous in water, processed foods, etc.  Your statement, "photographed iron-stained teeth, which had never touched optimally fluoridated water," is absolutely 100% unscientific, without evidence and makes no sense.  Calm down.    You are 100% wrong, on that statement. 

 

OK.  Let me try to understand your intent.  Iron stains can be polished off.  I saw these stains more in the past when people used iron pots and pans.  I have not seen iron stains for some time.    Did you try polishing the stains off so you can assure me they are iron stains?   And does iron cause intrinsic stains?  If so, show me the research with photographs.  

 

Take what a person says and try to understand what they are saying.  I'm trying to understand you, but your personal attacks make you sound very angry and with no intent to review science. 

 

I don't lump you in with others, don't lump me in with others.   Everyone makes mistakes and with time learns more.  Building walls does not help people overcome their misunderstanding. 

 

Give me good science that Dr. Limeback has misdiagnosed those photographs.

 

Thanks,

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH 

 

 

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 399 of 1,364

Why do I have to respond to anyone who calls me an "alternative heath pimp"?

The Graham and Morin reference (Highlights in North American Fluoride Litigation) happens to be online at various places. I should say go find it yourself, but to help readers, here it is:

 

http://whale.to/d/Graham.pdf

 

And Slott's stupid comments are important and essential to know about. This is one of a host of reasons why fluoridation promoters, at the AWWA, the CDC, the AFS, the ADA,k etc. continue to argue that treating peoples' teeth through public water supplies is not illegal.  You may not care, but we do.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 400 of 1,364

Richard says, " Here is the Graham and Morin monograph, pleese consult footnote #88."

 

Response:  Again, who are Graham and Morin?  Where is footnote #88?  (Perhaps you meant to attach a link.  Please do so now if you would, please.)

 

RS:  "The U.S. Congress expected the SDWA to halt the spread of water fluoridation.  And yet I am denounced for making this statement. When do I throw up?"

Response:  I am not denouncing you.  I am asking who Graham and Morin are, what they are talking about, and why you believe CWF is illegal.  I don't know when you throw up.

 

RS:  "So the data point I provided is not "anecdotal"."

 

Response: 

 

"an·ec·do·tal

/ˌanəkˈdōdl/
adjective
 
  1. (of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.
     
    You provided a personal account with zero documentation.  Yes, your tale is anecdotal. 
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