Tell Congress to stop Rx greed and cut prescription drug prices now! Here’s how.

Reply
Frequent Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
328
Views

Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

328 Views
Message 141 of 1,417

Richard, I prefer a more exact nomenclature - especially as some people get confused about how covalently bound F is released to form the fluoride anion.

Anyway, I take it that from your inability to provide quotes and citations you no longer wish to pursue the arguments you were making about "inaccuracies" in Connett & Perrott - The Fluoride Debate.

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
328
Views
Frequent Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
323
Views

Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

323 Views
Message 142 of 1,417

Yes, Bill, you had agreed to a scientific exchange with me and actually sent me a pdf for your first contribution. I got back to you wanting your help in providing the references and one of the images to make it suitable for publication.

At that stage, my hard drives packed up and I lost most of my material. It has been a slow process recovering what I could from backups.

I am still waiting for your final version of the contribution (I think you were traveling or also having computer problems at the time so couldn't respond at the time).

Anyway, I can start the exchange as soon as I get the final version of your contribution with the references and proper images.

I look forward to this exchange as you were concentrating on dental fluorosis and I had been preparing something on that.


Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
323
Views
Frequent Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
311
Views

Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

311 Views
Message 143 of 1,417

So Ken and Richard are at the fluoridation issue.  Amazing how you two get around.

 

Ken, you wanted a "discussion" "debate" on fluoride and I agreed, sending you information about excess exposure.   You were having email/computer problems and that is the last I heard.

 

Simple questions on exposure should be considered.

 

1.   How much ingested fluoride is recommended to prevent dental caries?

 

2.   At what age should the fluoride be ingested?

 

3.  At the recommended dosage, what are the risks for all ages?

 

4.  What label should be placed on the fluoride products?

 

5.  How much fluoride is each person receiving from other sources than artificial fluoridation?

 

Of course there are more questions, but those seem to be the most basic. 

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
311
Views
Regular Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
348
Views

Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

348 Views
Message 144 of 1,417

Except that the suffix "ide" is also used when naming any bnary compound which of course contains two types of elements. So this also includes organic fluorides such as CF4 being named carbon tetrafluoride, etc.

For a review of the meaning of fluoride you might want to read the endnote supplement to the article "Physiologic Conditions affect the Toxicity of Ingested Industrial Fluoride," Journal of Environrnental and Public Health 439490, 2013 availalbe online at: https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jeph/2013/439490/

 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
348
Views
Frequent Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
292
Views

Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

292 Views
Message 145 of 1,417

Again - your reply does illustrate my point. 

You seek to offend and in the process display a complete lack of knowledge of the subject.

No one with an ounce of chemical knowledge describes fluoride as a "mineral." It is an anion. It occurs naturally in minerals (but in itself is not a mineral) and it is ubiquitous in surface waters as the hydrated anion.

Fluorine is the name of the element which is gaseous (as the F2 molecule) at normal temperatures and pressures. However, it is very reactive so easily convert to the fare more stable ionic form.

As a collective term fluoride can be used to describe chemicals and minerals, naturally occurring and synthesised, containing the fluoride anion in their structure. However, it is incorrect to use the term where the F atom is covalently bound as in many organic compounds and in natural minerals like apatites.

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
292
Views
Regular Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
321
Views

Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

321 Views
Message 146 of 1,417

Fluoridationists typically claim that fluoride ingestion  does not harm bone because drinking it for years produces no clinical symptoms. What they overlook, as with kidney, brain and other organ altetations that are subclinical, is that fluoride accumulates its effects during lifelong consumption since fluoride is a calcium chelator. This causes in bone the formation of abnormal bone with an altered crystal structure which is not biochemically reversible. The NRC report  summarized the effects by saying that clinical bone pain typically begins after F accumulates to about 3000 ppm in bone. But the data in the associated table demonstrate that bone pain occurs over a broad range, even in some cases at only 1700 ppm. Most people accumulate F to 2500 after about 20 years of ingesting fluoridated water.

The point is that fluoride is a contaminant that poisons bone, and the bone structure abnormality begins with the first sip of fluoridated water.

A low dose calcium chelator poison does not produce clinical symptoms at first, but the effects are nevertheless abnormalities. TSH and PTH and calcitonin levels in blood are all elevated in fluoridated water consumers where the hormones attempt to prevent clinical symptons, of thyroid deficiency and proper blood calcium levels, respectively. But the lack of clinical symptoms does not mean to go ahead and continue to let the abnormality progress.

Understand?

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
321
Views
Silver Conversationalist
1
Kudos
361
Views

Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

361 Views
Message 147 of 1,417

Ken,

 

This is a public forum and not a private “conversation” between you and Dr. Sauerheber. Thus, my reply is hardly an “intervention”. If you don’t want people to post on this public forum, then keep your opinions to yourself. The water fluoridation issue is a matter of public interest, since such policies are forcefully imposed on the public. 

 

Then, I have heard your venally interested “health experts” make such idiotic statements as: “Fluoride is a natural mineral”. Omg! That right there makes it clear that these so called “health experts” know absolutely nothing about fluorides, since fluorine is a gas and not a mineral. Thus, fluorides are compounds of multiple different chemicals and metals, but these “health experts” obviously do not know that. Therefore, keep those parroting charlatan “health experts” out of the public water.

Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
361
Views
Regular Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
430
Views

Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

430 Views
Message 148 of 1,417

What reference? I took the train to Klamath Falls and measured the lake water directly myself with a Lamotte fluoride ion specific electrode.

 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
430
Views
Regular Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
423
Views

Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

423 Views
Message 149 of 1,417

The term "Democrat leaders" is nonsensical. When the GOP began using the term Democrat Congress or Democrat party (as though there is only one democrat  in it) they revealed their disdain for the Democratic Party. I recall the term was invented  when  president Obama was elected. Most republicans never got over it and vowed to make him a one term president the day he was inaugurated. 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
423
Views
Frequent Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
413
Views

Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

413 Views
Message 150 of 1,417

sirpac271999 I think your "reply" (actually intervention) illustrates my point.

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
413
Views