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Karpman Drama Triangle and Gaslight Tactics

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Message 121 of 1,374

How weird, those who specialize in vicioualy attacking fluoridation opponents regularly ignore the inconvenient science, like what I mentioned that provides biological plausability for Malin's study. Then KenP complains when after he's previoulsy identified himself as a retired New Zealander who used to work in agricultural chemistry that he is being attacked just for being identified - and then attacks Dr. Paul Connett, to boot, in an apples & oranges comparison.

 

That's called the Karpman Drama Triangle and involves a never ending Hero-Victim-Villian role playing. It's evoked by the Villian playing the Victim looking for a Hero. In this case, the fluoridationists like KenP trying to deceive the public with deflection and deception.

 

The Malin paper is high quality and just one of many that provides biological plausabilty for fluoride even in low concentrations such as in 'optimally' fluoridated water causing serious harm in consumers. Even the 2006 NRC commented on the alarming gaps in kidney science that indicated problems.

NRCkidneyPLUS.jpg   

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Re: Kidneys & Livers Compromised by Fluoridation Policy

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Message 122 of 1,374

Unbelievable. This fluoridation promoting person complains about being verbally reprimanded, and then himself announces that Paul Connett yearly performs a "misrepresentation of science". 

Between those who force the fluoridation of peoples' bones, vs those who disagree with this policy of altering peoples' bone structure and quality, I know exactly who is distorting science, and it is not Connett. Paul does the best he can with the available information, knowing that there has never been in all history an actual double blind, placebo controlled, human clinical trial to assess the side effects and dental caries effects of fluoride ingestion.

The facts we do have in well-controlled caged animal studies prove that fluoride ingestion does not decrease dental caries and in fact increases the incidence of abnormal dental enamel hypoplasia some refer to as the abnormal condition fluorosis. Indeed in the U.S. the incidence of this abnormality in teens is overwhelming and caused the CDC to recommend lowering the fluoride allowed in water supplies several years ago. But the infusion of any industrial fluoride into a water supply always increases the incidence of dental fluorosis in all cities treated.There are no exceptions.

The FDA has never approved any fluoride for swallowing and recently ruled that the material is a toxic substance that must be regulated by the EPA under theToxic Substances and Control Act. But the EPA does not want to be involved other than to prohibit water from containing more than 2-4 ppm and argues that the FDA needs to regulate the infusions because they are presumed to be an oral ingestible dental prophylactic.

The FDA has never approved any ingested substance for the purpose of dental caries control.

Lifelong ingestion of fluoride is known, in deceased people examined for it, to accumulate in bone to thousands of ppm where it causes formation of bone of poor quality at levels higher than in fluoridated toothpaste but where it does not belong and hss no functional purpose. Fluoride is not a nutrient. It is a toxic substance.

Do fluoridationists care about any of this? Of course not because they twist facts to their own desire and claim that lifelong eating/drinking fluoride is harmless and that caries rates would be higher if you didn't, not realizing that  flossing and brushing remove the bacteria that actually cause dental caries. Caries are not caused by lack of fluoride.

Fluoridation of people is a mental error, and no government agency accepts liability, not only for visible dental fluorosis but for any adverse effects of the ingested waste material. 

Protect bones in senior citizens because in elderly years bone fractures are most frequently lethal.  Controlled studies with dogs prove that fluoridated  bone takes far longer to heal than nonfluoridated bone. This is not a joke.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Kidneys & Livers Compromised by Fluoridation Policy

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Message 123 of 1,374

How weird - I quote from Malin et al's paper showing that your claims were wrong and I get a personal attack. That's called playing the man and not the ball. Why not deal with what Malin et al actually say?


As for " globe trotting troop of social media commenters who aggressively promote" something. That sounds like a description of Paul Connett who comes to New Zealand every southern summer to promote his misrepresentation of the science. Politicians are so used to his behavior they refuse to listen to him - and much of the reasonable media is the same.

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Re: Kidneys & Livers Compromised by Fluoridation Policy

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Message 124 of 1,374

Fluoride endangers kidneys, threatens thyroids, inflames guts, damages teeth, affects immunity & rewires brains. 

 

 

 

A few other fluoride- kidney studies: 

"F exposure was related to the urinary excretion of early kidney injury biomarkers, supporting the hypothesis of the nephrotoxic role of F exposure."

- Jiménez-Córdova MI et al. Evaluation of kidney injury biomarkers in an adult Mexican population environmentally exposed to fluoride and low arsenic levels. Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology. May 2018. 

 

“Oxidative stress is a recognized mode of action of fluoride exposure that has been observed in vitro in several types of cells and also in vivo in soft tissues such as the liver, kidney, brain, lung, and testes in animals and in people living in areas of endemic fluorosis” 

-  Barbier O, et al. (2010). Molecular mechanisms of fluoride toxicity. Chem Biol Interact. 188(2):319-33

 

 "....the WHO's recommended concentrations in drinking water become nephrotoxic to CKD rats, thereby aggravating renal disease and making media vascular calcification significant." 
- A. Martín-Pardillos et al. in Effect of water fluoridation on the development of medial vascular calcification in uremic rats. Toxicology. 2014 Apr 6;318:40-50

 

"suppression of Bcl-2 expression at both the mRNA and protein levels have been shown to implicate in apoptosis in the NaF-treated renal tubules”

Agalakova NI, Gusev GP. Molecular mechanisms of cytotoxicity and apoptosis induced by inorganic fluoride. ISRN Cell Biology. Volume 2012 (2012).

 

“NaF induces the apoptosis in renal tubules via activation of the Bax expression and Bcl-2 suppression”

Xu H, Jin XQ, Jing L, Li GS. Effect of sodium fluoride on the expression of bcl-2 family and osteopontin in rat renal tubular cells. Biol Trace Elem Res. 2006 Jan;109(1):55-60.

 

“It has been frequently observed that the children suffering from renal impairments also have some symptoms of dental and skeletal fluorosis… A total of 156 patients with childhood nephrotic syndrome were screened and it was observed that 32 of them had significantly high levels of fluoride in urine and serum… Increased levels of apoptosis were observed in high fluoride group compared to normal fluoride group. Various degrees of fluoride-associated damages to the architecture of tubular epithelia, such as cell swelling and lysis, cytoplasmic vacuolation, nuclear condensation, apoptosis, and necrosis, were observed.”

JA Quadri, S Sarwar, A Sinha, M Kalaivani, AK Dinda, A Bagga, TS Roy, TK Das, A Shariff. Fluoride-associated ultrastructural changes and apoptosis in human renal tubule: a pilot study. Human & Experimental Toxicology. 14 Feb 2018; Volume 37, issue 11, pages 1199-1206.

 

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Re: Kidneys & Livers Compromised by Fluoridation Policy

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Message 125 of 1,374

This is misleading. The Malin et al study does not identify "markers in American teens that suggest compromised kidney & liver function." In fact, individuals with liver or kidney disease were excluded from the study.

From the paper:

"this study did not aim to determine whether fluoride exposure
is associated with clinical decrements in kidney function among
U.S. adolescents. Rather, this study aimed to examine subclinical
changes in kidney or liver parameters associated with fluoride exposure
among a generally healthy population. For example, the lowest GFR
estimated in this study was 84 mL/min/1.73m2, and therefore none
were below the<75 mL/min/1.73m2 value considered reflective of
abnormal kidney function. Future prospective studies including participants
with and without kidney disease are needed to assess clinical
changes in kidney or liver function."

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Kidneys & Livers Compromised by Fluoridation Policy

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Message 126 of 1,374

Dental dogma destines teens for kidney and liver disease. 

 

The latest study out today identifies markers in American teens that suggest compromised kidney & liver function that could result in chronic disease later in life. These markers are due to fluoride intake growing up in optimally fluoridated American communities. 

 

Other recent studies have noted the biological damage due to oxidative stress caused by fluoride which has potential for causing all sorts of havoc in the body, including in kidneys, livers, brains and bones. 

 

Frankly, it doesn't matter if the fluoride caused the organ damage or if genetic predilitictions made these inviduals more vulnerable to fluoride poisoning, there are significant percentages of the population who are harmed by fluoridation policy - harm that begins in utero but manifests over a lifetime as chronic disease, disabilities, and even premature death

 

  • Fluoride exposure and kidney and liver function among adolescents in the United States: NHANES, 2013–2016. Ashley J. Malin, Corin Lesseur, Stefanie A. Busgang, Paul Curtin, Robert O. Wright, Alison P. Sanders. Environment International. August 8, 2019 [online ahead of print].  https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160412019309274 

 

 

  • Waugh DT. Fluoride Exposure Induces Inhibition of Sodium-and Potassium-Activated Adenosine Triphosphatase (Na+, K+-ATPase) Enzyme Activity: Molecular Mechanisms and Implications for Public Health. Int. J. Environ. Res. Public Health 2019, 16(8), 1427.  https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/16/8/1427 

 

Screen Shot 2019-08-08 at 10.55.24 AM.png

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Frequent Social Butterfly
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Cataracts, Glaucoma, Macular Degeneration & Fluoridation Policy

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Message 127 of 1,374

American reports have documented cataracts as a side effect of fluoridated medications. The fluorosis belts in Africa and Asia have high incidences of blindness, half of which is due to cataracts. Eye diseases are influenced by many factors, but ..... 

 

Fluoride exposure and fluoridation are implicated as contributing factors in several degenerative eye diseases which primarily affect senior citizens per March 2019 peer-reviewed article published in the International Journal of Environmental Research in Public Health. Metabolic reactions, genetic vulnerability & disturbances, and immunonological responses at play in a perfect storm that is typical of poisonous reactions in biological systems.   

 

The Contribution of Fluoride to the Pathogenesis of Eye Diseases: Molecular Mechanisms and Implicati...

 

See comment from the senior citizen care-giver of an elderly woman finding ways to stabilize eyesight that include avoidance of fluoride

 

Aliss2019.jpgAliss on Eye Disease

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 128 of 1,374

It is hard to believe that people exist in the United States in the 21st Century who actually hold on to the idea that fluoride is a nutrient. And yet right here in front of our eyes we see just that.

F is not a listed component of the blood because it has no human function or purpose and is a contaminant in man.

The EPA does not recognize fluoride as a nutrient but lists it as a contaminant of drinking water and had to set an MCL for it.

The FDA ruled in 1975 that fluoride is considered unsafe to add to foods. And fluoride compounds have never been FDA approved for ingestion in the U.S.  And ruled that fluoride is a toxic substance that in water needs to be regulated under the Toxic Substances Control Act. 

Fluoridationists actually believe that fluoride is a nutrient like vitamin C is. Wow. All nutrients exert necessary physiologic actions and exert effects at levels that reach saturation and are fully reversible upon dilution of the nutrient. Fluoride has none of these properties and in fact exerts adverse effects on bone that are not saturable and not biochemically fully reversible

The FDA knows full well that vitamin C is a nutrient and that fluoride is not. No disease entity exists that is caused by fluoride deficiency. Caries are not caused by fluoride deficiency but are caused by bacterial metabolism of sugars to produce acids that attack enamel. Normal enamel can only develop in the absence of blood fluoride and normal enamel does not contain fluoride. It is a clear crystalline hard matrix of calcium phosphate forms called enamel hydroxyapatite, far too hard to incorporate fluoride. Bone  hydroxyapatite does accumulate fluoride to massive amounts during chronic consumption of low concentrations of fluoride mainly in drinking water.

The CDC now recognizes that toothpaste fluoride causes dental fluorosis enamel hypoplasia but has yet to understand that most of the fluoride in the bloodstream in a fluoridated city comes from the treated drinking water, not toothpaste. Some day they might get it but as of now endorse fluoride ingestion as though it were a nutrient although they do not label it as such.  

 

 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 129 of 1,374

Bill, come off it. 

This issue has already been dealt with in my comments comparing F with other nutrients, I, Se, etc. "Dosage" is a completely inappropriate term for these nutrients.

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 130 of 1,374

Ken

 

Dosage.  How much is needed and how much is too much?

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

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