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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 1091 of 1,248

Steven,

 

In case you missed my post.  

 

Rather than talking about the messangers, please answer my question about excess exposure. . . 60% with dental fluorosis, 20% with moderate/severe:

 

"WHAT SOURCE OF FLUORIDE IS THE BEST TO REDUCE IN ORDER TO REDUCE DENTAL FLUOROSIS?"

 

Thanks,

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 1092 of 1,248

Steven,

 

Endorsements can be found for everything.  Endorsements are not science.

 

Lets keep the discussion on a scientific footing and please answer my question,

 

"WHAT SOURCE OF FLUORIDE SHOULD BE REDUCED TO REDUCE EXCESS EXPOSURE?"

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 1093 of 1,248

Seven,

 

You attack the messanger but have no comment on the message.

 

Many, millions, are exposed to too much fluoride.  Your lack of response to that most critical point is evidence of the lack of science behind the continued addition of fluoride to public water.  Why give more fluoride when half of our youth have too much?

 

HHS lowered their recommendation.  Another government agency or the courts will lower it some more.  Where are the good scientists with responsible ethics calling for a reduction in total fluoride exposure?

 

I am not interested in going into the risks of excess fluoride exposure because you simply will not acknowledge the fact that too many are ingesting too much.  When you acknowledge that 60% of adolescents with dental fluorosis is too many, 20% with moderate/severe is too many, then we need to discuss the source of fluoride which needs to be reduced.

 

Topical has some benefit.

 

Systemic has mixed evidence of benefit.

 

The first step is for you and Johnny Johnson and the American Fluoridation Society to recommend a source of fluoride which needs to be reduced or stopped to reduce the rapid rise in dental fluorosis.  

 

What is your recommendation and the American Fluoridation Societies official position on excess exposure?   Stop Medications with fluoride?  Foods with fluoride?  Air with fluoride?  or fluoridation of public water?

 

The answer is obviously public water fluoridation.  All the other sources of fluoride have significant benefits (and risks), only water fluoridation is without a benefit.  

 

Too many are ingesting too much fluoride.

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 1094 of 1,248

The AFS VP, Myron Allukian, doesn't usually comment online - but he uses his connections at Harvard to engage others as shills in endorsing policy and parrotting marketing bullet points. He's been promoting fluoridation since the 1960s. The latest copy and paste by AFS Communictions Officer, is a document from those the VP and his associates duped into compliance.

 

Everyone at Harvard does not agree with that prepared statement.  

Neither do experts in other prestigious institutions. 

 

Expert in Neuroscience: “Prevention of chemical brain drain should be considered at least as important as protection against caries.” - Dr. Philippe Grandjean, Chair of Environmental Medicine at the University of Southern Denmark and Adjunct Professor of Environmental Health at Harvard School of Public Health (2014)

 

Expert in Neuroscience & Behavioral Psychology: There’s no doubt that the intake of fluoridated water is going to interrupt basic functions of nerve cells in the brain, and this is certainly not going to be [for] the benefit of anybody……The addition of fluorides to drinking water was, and is, a mistake.” - Dr. Robert Isaacson, 2006 National Research Council panelist on Fluoride in Drinking Water (2007)

 

Expert in Dental Public Health: “I now realize that what my colleagues and I were doing was what the history of science shows all professionals do when their pet theory is confronted by disconcerting new evidence: they bend over backwards to explain away the new evidence. They try very hard to keep their theory intact — especially so if their own professional reputations depend on maintaining that theory……..It is my best judgement, reached with a high degree of scientific certainty, that fluoridation is invalid in theory and ineffective in practice as a preventive of dental caries. It is dangerous to the health of consumers.” - Dr John Colquhoun, former chief Dental Officer of Auckland, New Zealand (1998)

 

Expert in Legal Analysis: “The cessation of all compulsory water fluoridation schemes should be the goal of all public health agencies, ethical lawmakers, and informed citizens.” - Prof. Rita F. Barnett-Rose, J.D. at Dale E. Fowler School of Law, Chapman University (2014)

 

Expert in Pediatric Sensitivity to Pollutants: “This is a very well-conducted study, and it raises serious concerns about fluoride supplementation in water” - Dr. Leonardo Trasande, a pediatrician who studies potential links between environmental exposures and health problems at New York University Langone Health on Bashash et al. (Sept 2017)

 

Dean of Public Health at University of Toronto: “We tested for all the things we could think of that could act on neurodevelopment. But we haven’t found anything else that was a potential confounder...Our study shows that the growing fetal nervous system may be adversely affected by higher levels of fluoride exposure. It also suggests that the pre-natal nervous system may be more sensitive to fluoride compared to that of school-aged children… to say it has no relevance to the folks in the U.S. seems disingenuous.- Dr. Howard Hu, Dean of the Dalla Lana School of Public Health at the University of Toronto on Bashash study for which he was the lead investigator (2017) 

 

 

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 1095 of 1,248
  
"Numerous reputable studies over the years have consistently demonstrated that community water fluoridation is safe, effective, and practical. Fluoridation has made an enormous impact on improving the oral health of the American people. " 
"Our country is fortunate to have over 204 million Americans living in fluoridated communities and having access to the health and economic benefits of this vital public health measure." 
 
Sincerely,
 
Jeffrey S. Flier, MD
Dean of the Faculty of Medicine
Caroline Shields Walker Professor of Medicine
Harvard Medical School
 
R. Bruce Donoff, DMD, MD
Dean and Walter C. Guralnick Distinguished Professor of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery
Harvard School of Dental Medicine
 
Julio Frenk, MD, MPH, PhD
Dean of the Faculty, Harvard School of Public Health
T & G Angelopoulos Professor of Public Health and International Development,
Harvard School of Public Health and Harvard Kennedy School
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"I do not believe there is any valid, scientific reason for fearing adverse health conditions from the consumption of water fluoridated at the optimal level"
 
---John Doull, MD, PhD, Chair of the National Academy of Sciences, National Research Council 2006 Committee Report on Fluoride in Drinking Water
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“With the development of fluoridated drinking water and dental sealants, Americans are less likely to experience tooth loss and gingivitis by middle age …  Community water fluoridation continues to be a vital, cost-effective method of preventing dental [cavities].”
 
Dr. Regina Benjamin, Surgeon General (2009-current)
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
“Water fluoridation has helped improve the quality of life in the United States by reducing pain and suffering related to tooth decay, time lost from school and work, and money spent to restore, remove or replace decayed teeth.”
 
Dr. Richard Carmona, Surgeon General (2002-2006)
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
“More than 50 years of scientific research has found that people living in communities with fluoridated water have healthier teeth and fewer cavities than those living where the water is not fluoridated.   … A significant advantage of water fluoridation is that anyone, regardless of socioeconomic level, can enjoy these health benefits during their daily lives — at home, work, or at school or play — simply by drinking fluoridated water or beverages prepared with fluoridated water.”
 
Dr. David Satcher, Surgeon General (1998-2002)
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
“Data consistently have indicated that water fluoridation is the most cost-effective, practical, and safe means for reducing the occurrence of tooth decay in a community.”
 
Dr. Audrey Manley, Surgeon General (1995-1997)
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
Fluoridation is “the single most important commitment a community can make to the oral health of its children and to future generations.”
 
Dr. C. Everett Koop, Surgeon General (1982-1989)
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The American Dental Association
“Studies conducted throughout the past 65 years have consistently shown that fluoridation of community water supplies is safe and effective in preventing dental decay in both children and adults.”
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The American Academy of Pediatrics
“Fluoride plays a very important role in the prevention of dental [decay]. Although the primary mechanism of action of fluoride in preventing dental [decay] is topical, systemic mechanisms are also important.”
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The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
“For many years, panels of experts from different health and scientific fields have provided strong evidence that water fluoridation is safe and effective.”
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The American Academy of Family Physicians
“Fluoridation of public water supplies is a safe, economical and effective measure to prevent dental [decay].”
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The Institute of Medicine
“Evidence continues to reaffirm that community water fluoridation is effective, safe, inexpensive, and is associated with significant cost savings.”
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The American Public Health Association
“Much of the credit for the nation’s better oral health can be attributed to the decision in the 1940s to begin adding fluoride to public drinking water systems.”
 
 
 
Steven D. Slott, DDS
 
 
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 1096 of 1,248

“The Texas GOP’s official opposition to fluoridation is another example of the diversity of support for our movement.   From Ralph Nader, the Green Party's presidential candidate in 2000, to Libertarians like Dr. Ron Paul, to Democrats and Republicans at every level of government, and everything in between in countries with multi-party systems.  Opposition to fluoridation is clearly an issue we can all proudly find agreement on.” - Stuart Cooper, FAN Campaign Director (2018) 

 

Politics make strange bedfellows. Regardless of whether you self-identify as 'conservative' or 'liberal', no one wants to suffer from arthritis or dementia in old age. No one chooses decades of restrictions because of irritable bowel or kidney disease. No one wants to see their children struggle with learning disabilities or hide their smile because of embarrassment over stained teeth. No one wants broken bones because fluoride accumulation weakened them. 

 

And no one wants to be bullied by arrogant doctors who use political campaigns and social media in order to establish fluoridation mandates that force contaminated product into the bodies of convenient consumers regardless of the adverse impact on individual health! 

 

See Erin Brockovich's Position on Fluoridation:  https://www.facebook.com/ErinBrockovichOfficial/photos/a.10151891381810494.873676.75960805493/101564...

 

 

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 1097 of 1,248

Bill, the dishonesty of your comments and posts are  self-evident, as I have amply demonstrated.  In accordance with your  bizarre Trump analogies, you seem to be playing by his playbook.....make outrageous claims enough times and people will begin to believe them, regardless of their lack of validity.  I’m fine with the ability of intelligent readers of these comments to easily ascertain your dishonesty.  

 

I have not felt any need to comment on many of your personal opinions as they are completely unsubstantiated.  Your graphic analyses of data prepared by some unnamed sources are valid evidence of absolutely nothing.  It is neither my, nor anyone else’s, responsibility to disprove your unsubstantiated claims.

 

The bottom line is that there is no valid, peer-reviewed  scientific evidence of any adverse effects on anyone from total fluoride intake from optimally fluoridated water in conjunction with that from all other normal sources of fluoride.  You have provided nothing to contradict  that fact.

 

Steven D. Slott, DDS

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 1098 of 1,248

Steven,

I am not misrepresenting the data and you have not shown that I am.

 

I have clearly presented where the data has come from and graphs have been made from the data to better illustrate the point.

 

Again, if you have a problem with the points I am making, please attack the points, the message, rather than me.

 

My point so far are:

 

Many are ingesting too much fluoride.  So far, you have refused to comment.  You don't like how I referece the data, but you don't explain how you disagree with the fact that too many are ingesting too much fluoride.

 

Instead, you and Johnny Johnson (and others) misrepresent water fluoridation as though it is the only source of fluoride.  May I repeat, no one has ever lived with water fluoridation as the only source of fluoride.  Your statements are unrealistic and anyone seriously listening to what you are saying will discredit your statement.  You must use TOTAL fluoride exposure, not just water fluoridation.

 

Once you agree that many have excess fluoride exposure, then lets move on to "how much total fluoride is optimal?"   And then we can move on to "is that optimal total fluoride safe?"

 

We have not agreed on the first step because you keep attacking the messanger rather than the message.

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH 

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 1099 of 1,248

CarryAnne,

 

Don't let Johnny Johnson intimidate you because you don't have a dental or medical degree.   And you are not offering off the cuff medical advice.  

 

If we are going to start that kind of intimidation, then we could charge all the dentists and physicians talking about fluoride with malpractice because none of us are licensed in every state where people are reading these posts.

 

Johnny is only trying to make you feel inferior.  A bully, such as Trump, uses intimidation and public threats and intimidation.  He especially likes to pick on those with less power, such as children, especially immigrant children because they can't fight back.

 

Your posts, facts, and references are most reasonable.  I think we can all agree that a Cochrane review of RTC studies has more weight, but because fluoridationists refuse to do those studies, we have to use trials and reports with lower confidence.  

 

You have better judgment when evaluating the evidence than some on this forum blinded by bias.

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH 

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 1100 of 1,248

No, Bill.  You’re the one not reading.  I stated that the claim was made  that the graph was based on IIda and Kumar, but that that you cited it in a manner misrepresenting it as having been taken directly from Iida and Kumar....i.e. the large citation directly over the graph.  You did the same with that graph “based on NHANES data”.  You are taking graphic analyses of data, put together by some unnamed sources,  and misrepresenting those graphs to be from sources you cite.  I stand by my original statement.  Your dishonesty is staggering.  

 

If you want to present information you believe supports your position, then cite it correctly and don’t misrepresent its origin.  Dishonesty is that which is not professional.  

 

You should also learn the difference between slander and libel.  I’ve been maliciously libeled by antifluoridationists so often that I am well aware of what constitutes both. 

 

 

Steven D. Slott, DDS

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