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Re: Should the South remove all monuments to Civil War history?

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Message 21 of 45
I thought of writing a letter to the editor of the newspaper, yet my views may come across as racist and probably wouldn't be considered for publication. Would these same people who are pushing for the extinction of anything that has a direct association with the Civil War have felt this way prior to the event that precipitated it? The presence of these monuments now has become racially charged. So with any push from the white folks, could we then assume to see the appearance of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton? This is such an extremist position, and a dishonor to the memory of the Confederates and the Union army who fought on the battlefields from Vicksburg, MS to Gettysburg, PA. To be fair, why not erect a memorial to The Buffalo Soldiers? The mayor wants to keep his job and/or be re-elected, so my opinion is that he is not being objective in his decision in taking into account what the white residents feel about wiping out history. Do we even have a say in the matter?
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Re: Should the South remove all monuments to Civil War history?

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Message 22 of 45

@isolde wrote:
Removing the statues was proposed, but in today's paper, the mayor is taking steps in making this a reality. He met with city council to air his views and asked for a timeline to begin changing statues that have been in the city for over 100 years. Discussion followed with impassioned speeches not of just removal but demolition. In addition, changing street names and replacing them. Some philanthropists who provided money for schools and better education were white. The schools that bear their names have been changed to black folks' names, (one of which is a tennis player). Why does an act of a deranged man impact an emotional plea to change the face of history? It can't be done and furthermore it's not a racial issue. If the folks who oppose it can't live with history (btw that happened 150 years ago and none of us living today are responsible), JUST MOVE!! The places I associate with my childhood won't be "dere anymore." I think this should be put to a vote, and not let one man arbitrarily make all the decisions that don't reflect the majority.

Does the mayor also propose taking down all statues and monuments to the Union too? (The image of a Federal soldier is probably going to invoke images of a Confederate soldier. Yikes!) Oh yes, the Civil War was so ugly, Americans just need to deny it ever existed by removing, or better yet, demolishing any reminder of it!

 

And frankly, all memorials and monuments to slavery and/or famous slaves such as the Underground Railroad, etc. need to be removed too, because there is another reminder of our ugly past.

 

Deny. Deny. Deny.

 

What I am seeing is not harmony and peace and love and an end to racism, but a resentment brewing between those who want to remember their heritage and those who want to wipe all reminders from the face of the earth. 

 

An interesting observation about an act of a deranged man impacting an emotional plea to change the face of history. Be a **bleep** shame if he went down in the history books primarily remembering him for the wrong thing.



    

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Re: Should the South remove all monuments to Civil War history?

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Message 23 of 45
Removing the statues was proposed, but in today's paper, the mayor is taking steps in making this a reality. He met with city council to air his views and asked for a timeline to begin changing statues that have been in the city for over 100 years. Discussion followed with impassioned speeches not of just removal but demolition. In addition, changing street names and replacing them. Some philanthropists who provided money for schools and better education were white. The schools that bear their names have been changed to black folks' names, (one of which is a tennis player). Why does an act of a deranged man impact an emotional plea to change the face of history? It can't be done and furthermore it's not a racial issue. If the folks who oppose it can't live with history (btw that happened 150 years ago and none of us living today are responsible), JUST MOVE!! The places I associate with my childhood won't be "dere anymore." I think this should be put to a vote, and not let one man arbitrarily make all the decisions that don't reflect the majority.
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Re: Should the South remove all monuments to Civil War history?

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Message 24 of 45

@MsStretch wrote:

I really did not mean to ignite a discussion on the African American memorial; I only mentioned it in the context that it also remembers the Civil War.

 

 


I only approached the subject becuase you sounded like you were giving the African American Memorial an equivalency with the Confedrerate Monument.

 

I was just pointing out that it wasn't equivalent at all.... the reason being that the white legislature didn't let it be equivalent. It represented a segment of humanity's darkest hour while the other memorial represented pride in state patriotism.

 

In other words, the whites had their cake (pride in state patriotism) and ate it too (a memorial to slavery of which they were also proud).

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Re: Should the South remove all monuments to Civil War history?

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Message 25 of 45

@nctarheel wrote:

@MsStretch wrote:


Hmm... I could be way off base on this one but doesn't the Confederate monument also feature a generic soldier?


 

 

Yes, it does. But this soldier is in uniform, holding his gun, on another side of the monument is a depiction of a cannon, and on yet a third side, there is poetry that basically ends with the thought that patriotism for their state endures forever.

 

To me, the subjects of each memorial evoke different emotions.

 

One is militarily based honoring the soldiers evoking a sense of pride whereas the other depicts being sold into slavery and working in the fields, evoking a sense of sorrow.


I really did not mean to ignite a discussion on the African American memorial; I only mentioned it in the context that it also remembers the Civil War, but you have brought up a very valid point. Certain concepts and ideas evoke different emotions in different people depending on their life experiences and heritage and education. For example, I mentioned earlier that my encounter with the Confederate flag was much less benign than PattyDiane who saw the flag displayed as a hate symbol with the KKK and was attacked.

 

I respect anyone's opinion and feelings and can even appreciate and understand their point of view.  (However, I do not condone acts of vandalism to show that expression such as burning black churches or defacing monuments. To me, such thuggery negates any validation. But that's another whole discussion.)



    

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Re: Should the South remove all monuments to Civil War history?

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Message 26 of 45

@MsStretch wrote:


Hmm... I could be way off base on this one but doesn't the Confederate monument also feature a generic soldier?


 

 

Yes, it does. But this soldier is in uniform, holding his gun, on another side of the monument is a depiction of a cannon, and on yet a third side, there is poetry that basically ends with the thought that patriotism for their state endures forever.

 

To me, the subjects of each memorial evoke different emotions.

 

One is militarily based honoring the soldiers evoking a sense of pride whereas the other depicts being sold into slavery and working in the fields, evoking a sense of sorrow.

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Re: Should the South remove all monuments to Civil War history?

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Message 27 of 45

@nctarheel wrote:

 

Instead of specific heroes, this memorial depicts a generic black family on the auction block, generic slaves working in the rice fields, and generic scenes from the Jim Crow era thus serving the purpose of:

 

(1) Reminding African Americans of the darkest period in their long, rich history.

(2) Reminding Whites of the "good ole days".

 


Hmm... I could be way off base on this one but doesn't the Confederate monument also feature a generic soldier?



    

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Re: Should the South remove all monuments to Civil War history?

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Message 28 of 45

@MsStretch wrote:

 

BTW, I haven't seen any mention of the African American memorial that also stands on SC's state Capitol grounds.and depicts slavery and the Civil War because yes, it is a part of black history and SC's heritage.


MsStretch,

 

I had to respond to this excerpt twice because your representation of the African American Memorial in South Carolina is so misplaced, that I thought some additional discussion was warranted. What it represents to you and what it really represents are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

It is very important to remember that The South Carolina Legislature did not permit any real people to be depicted on the memorial. African American Civil War heroes such as Aaron Anderson (a Medal of Honor winner), Robert Smalls (First Black Naval Captain and future Congressman), and William Jackson ( a spy that worked in Jefferson Davis's house funneling information North) were excluded from recognition on the memorial.

 

Civil War Memorials to WHITE heroes such as Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis, and others abound throughout South Carolina.

 

Instead of specific heroes, this memorial depicts a generic black family on the auction block, generic slaves working in the rice fields, and generic scenes from the Jim Crow era thus serving the purpose of:

 

(1) Reminding African Americans of the darkest period in their long, rich history.

(2) Reminding Whites of the "good ole days".

 

That was the intention of the South Carolina Legislature when this affront to Black History was erected. If you see it as honoring the Black experience, you are way off base.

 

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Re: Should the South remove all monuments to Civil War history?

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Message 29 of 45

@MsStretch wrote:


It is also unfortunate the rantings of a deranged young man fell on deaf ears until nine people were killed.


We are 100% in agreement there!!!!

 

But you wonder though, what if he were a man of Middle Eastern descent ranting about killing white people, would the ears have been deaf then??????

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Re: Should the South remove all monuments to Civil War history?

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Message 30 of 45

@nctarheel wrote:

You obviously don't know the history of the African American Memorial on S.C. Capitol grounds.

First, its very existance was fought over for years and years. Second, its approval was partially based on the continuation of flying the CONFEDERATE BATTLE FLAG on Capitol grounds. Third, no real person from African American history was allowed to be depicted on the memorial. Fourth, funds for the memorial had to be raised privately. This was an African American Memorial that once allowed (and that wasn't easy), was planned for, designed by, parameters set by, the white legislature.

 

Don't forget......South Carolina is still South Carolina. It is right up there with Texas as one of the most discriminatory states in the union.


You're right, nctarheel, I don't know the full history of the African American History Memorial. But I digress. This topic originally started about monuments to Civil War history. 

 

These may be disturbing images

1.jpg

Confederate battle flag

aa1.jpg

Slave auction block

aa2.jpg

Slaves in chains

aa3.jpg

USCT - Civil War

 

But they are a part of the bigger picture

SC Confederate Monument

Confederate Monument - SC

African American History Memorial - SC

African American History Memorial - SC

 

Bottom line -- do I think the South should remove all monuments to Civil War history? No, I don't, even if it is SC or TX. History isn't always pretty, but you can't deny it. What about all CW monuments in the North?

 

It is also unfortunate the rantings of a deranged young man fell on deaf ears until nine people were killed.



    

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