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Re: we must unite as Americans.

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Message 31 of 76

@Snoopy48 wrote:



So you want to go back to hospitals controlled by the government for the little people but private hospitals for the wealthy. 


That is how some other countries do it -

In Britain, a person that has private insurance is able to widen their access to providers and hospitals.

 

In Singapore, basic care in government-run hospital wards is cheap, sometimes free, with more deluxe care in private rooms available for those paying extra.  The Singapore system provides pretty good care for a small amount of spending but others counter that access and quality vary, with wide disparities between those at the top and bottom of the socioeconomic ladder.  Since their data reporting is somewhat different than in other countries, it is hard to get the real facts.

 

Australia provides free inpatient care in public hospitals, access to most medical services and prescription drugs. There is also voluntary private health insurance, giving access to private hospitals and to some services the public system does not cover. More than half of hospitals are public.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/09/18/upshot/best-health-care-system-country-bracket.html

 

However, with that said, I think it would actually have to be measured as to the expertise of the public vs private hospital.  I know here, if I were burned or had a stroke - get me to Grady - our public hospital in Atlanta; same thing for extreme trauma care.


* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: we must unite as Americans.

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Message 32 of 76

@GailL1 wrote:

 

So in this discussion, details are very important - what details will the American people accept and which will they not accept?  Which is more important to the American people security or choice?

 


Apparently, it's money. Culture is the reason America doesn't have universal healthcare. It's a culture that puts profit over humanity. We are the most expensive and least effective worldwide.

 

Personally, I'd vote for the Swedish healthcare model. They actually care about their people and quality of care and quality of life. It's striking to me that while Scandinavian countries pay more in taxes, they also rank at the top of the list of happiest people in the world. It's all about the culture.

 

http://www.swedishhealthcare.com/comparing-healthcare-systems-of-sweden-and-us/

 

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Re: we must unite as Americans.

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Message 33 of 76

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Richva wrote:

If we are going to come together, we have to concentrate on goals and then look to see how we can best achieve them. 

 

I will go first. I want every resident of the United States to have affordable healthcare to be in the top five developed nations using metrics of  life expectancies, infant mortality, and costs. 

 

Can we come together on that as a goal? 


I'll agree on the goal but not necessarily on the implementation. Great GOAL!


Coud you give me some idea of what kind of implementation would appeal to you?


One that wasn't controlled by government. Right now the problem is shared by lawyers, insurance companies, and government.  Years ago there were county hospitals for the poor and middle class as well as private hospitals with little lawyer involvement and no insurance companies.

What's your plan?


So you want to go back to hospitals controlled by the government for the little people but private hospitals for the wealthy. 

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Re: we must unite as Americans.

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Message 34 of 76

No doubt we should unite as Americans.....but under what philosophy or goal?  Everyone here seems to have the idea that it is theirs.

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Re: we must unite as Americans.

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Message 35 of 76

@alferdpacker wrote:

@GailL1 wrote:

Canada also doesn't cover treatments which are not done by an MD - so no psychotherapy by a therapist other than a psychiatrist who is an MD.  Our pshychiatrist are the specialist medicine group which has the lowest participation in health insurance plans - public and private.

 

 


That has the beneficial result of keeping charlatans like George Rekers from being involved in causing - through gross incompetence - the death of a patient - and getting away with it...

 


I am sure there are some benefits of not having (paying for) irresponsible professionals - course just because they aren't paid for doesn't mean they can't practice -

The problem of not having these professionals covered by whatever national coverage is that many mental health illnesses utilize psychologist in their treatment regiments here in this country as well as clinical social worker or other licensed mental health care practitioner.  Actually I believe with this opioid addiction crisis, peer counselors are also covered in this treatment regiment in some states.

 

The Mental Health Parity and Addiction Equity Act (also known as the mental health parity law or federal parity law) requires coverage of services for mental health, behavioral health and substance-use disorders to be comparable to physical health coverage.

 

In Canada, some of the provinces have initiated coverage for psychologist and other mental health professionals, not covered by the national law.


* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: we must unite as Americans.

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Message 36 of 76

@GailL1 wrote:

Canada also doesn't cover treatments which are not done by an MD - so no psychotherapy by a therapist other than a psychiatrist who is an MD.  Our pshychiatrist are the specialist medicine group which has the lowest participation in health insurance plans - public and private.

 

 


That has the beneficial result of keeping charlatans like George Rekers from being involved in causing - through gross incompetence - the death of a patient - and getting away with it...

 

44>dolt45
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Re: we must unite as Americans.

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Message 37 of 76

Canada also doesn't cover treatments which are not done by an MD - so no psychotherapy by a therapist other than a psychiatrist who is an MD.  Our pshychiatrist are the specialist medicine group which has the lowest participation in health insurance plans - public and private.

 

 


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Re: we must unite as Americans.

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Message 38 of 76

@Richva wrote:



Coud you give me some idea of what kind of implementation would appeal to you?




One of the reasons we can't come together is that one side never offers a solution. They just say "you can't do it THIS way".  I would look to the countries who have universal coverage, better outcomes, and lower costs to see how they do it and model a plan after them.  Personally, I like Canada (I lived under their system) and Norway but neither of those meet your restrictions. 

 

What do you see as different today from the "years ago" scenario?  I can show you 10 countries using the universal model with less costs and better outcomes. Can you show me a study or plan which adheres to your restrictions so I can judge? 

 

 


Of course they are because they are different, because they are very regulated, because they don't cover or subsidize a lot of what we cover here - but I will take exception to your outcome measure especially in certain areas.

Take away most of the administrative cost here and we are still the most expensive in the world -

 

Personally I think you are going about your promo in an erroneous fashion - we have to determine 1st and foremost what we consider that basic care and compare our definition to theirs - things like access, rare disease cure discovery subsidies, prescription drug coverage, long term care, gatekeepers roll, even a choice of extending life if terminal.  And my favorite, including value based mediciane in the approval process for all drugs and therapies - if they either don't work or don't extend life or have a very low quality of life measure as compared to some older med or therapy - why even approve them.  But of course, some people will take issue with that approval process possibility.

 

Here is some thing that people here might like to try -

NYT Upshot 09/18/2017 - The Best Health Care System in the World: Which One Would You Pick?

"To better understand one of the most heated U.S. policy debates, we created a tournament to judge which of these nations has the best health system: Canada, Britain, Singapore, Germany, Switzerland, France, Australia and the U.S."

 

I will agree that having a system where one can get treatment without having to lose everything gives a certain amount of security but it seems many Americans value choice over security.

 

It is not just a matter of what works and what does not work - it is a matter of what we want our health care system to be -

Do we want a global view which promotes innovation that benefits the rest of the world?

Do we want a health systems where the treatment of the poorest of society is paramount?

Do we want just certain things where the majority of Americans could benefit or exceptions which could be very expensive exceptions?

 

I like the conclusion of the judges when they say this:

"To nobody’s surprise, the United States could do better at balancing health care costs with access, quality and outcomes. But there are many ways to reach that goal, and there will always be trade-offs. Learning about them from other systems and debating them honestly would probably do us a lot of good."

 

So in this discussion, details are very important - what details will the American people accept and which will they not accept?  Which is more important to the American people security or choice?

 

 

 


* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: we must unite as Americans.

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Message 39 of 76

Disagreeing wiith those who support groups such as those Scout speaks of is “the radical fringe”?  

 

LOL! These groups are trump’s mouthpieces—his base!  THEY ARE THE ABHORRENT FRINGE, who admit that trump gave them their voice (spencer).  

 

No wonder trump has his swarthy base—all ability to discern right from wrong, good from evil, truth from fiction had been lost to them. 

What an extremely sad state of affairs these people present to those amongst us who are still able to think clearly with regard to the above.

 

Gee, I miss having a real president!

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Re: we must unite as Americans.

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Message 40 of 76

@rk9152 wrote:

@xrepub wrote:

I saw this post which I considered to be foolish: 

Once the elections are over, we must unite as Americans.

 

Does the poster think that before the elections are over we should not unite as Americans?

What does the poster thinks the phrase  "unite as Americans means"?

 

It is a mystery to me.

 Making "I am an American" more important than "I am a Republican" or "I am a Democrat" - and certainly more important than "missing the ex-President" or concerns about who the President's wife wakes up with each day might be a good start.

 



And pray tell, exactly who is putting country over party? Congress is totally partisan. Trump clearly doesn't. He's too busy making a mockery of our democratic republic, and worshiping at his own altar. 

 

 

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