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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: "Marshall Plan" for Central America

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Message 1 of 42

@rk9152 wrote:

@MaVolta wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@MaVolta wrote:

 

The first order of business has to be to put the gun and drug trade out of business.

 


I agree with the concept side of your solution. Of course, "how" is the big issue.


Indeed! That's the $64 billion dollar question. Dealing with drugs and guns have been points of contention between the two parties for so long, that it has now come to a boiling point. These are problems that will require spending on a number of fronts, as it seems to require a holistic approach. You can't solve one without addressing the other. We also have work to do in our own back yard concerning poverty, crime, guns, and drugs. They are linked here as well. 


In this case the contention is not guns and drugs but guns and drugs crossing the border. I doubt either can be wished out of existence. But if the border crossings could be controlled better, that would go a long way towards the problems - north and south.


I don't think that there is any contention about funding border security at ports of entry. Those urban areas already have barriers, and most already have funding for upgrades. They need x-ray scanners for trucks and vehicles, and human resources, among other things.

 

Where it gets contentious is about the tracking guns and gun sales. Congress cracked down on ATF after the failures in operation Fast and Furious were discovered. This story that began in 2013 was recently updated on CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2013/08/27/world/americas/operation-fast-and-furious-fast-facts/index.html  Now Congress cannot agree on what to do or how to do it.

 

It also gets contentious over drugs. Everyone recognizes that we have an opiod crisis, but little is being done to combat the situation. There is growing support to decriminalize marijuana, or even legalize marijuana and regulate it like alcohol. But further, we must recognize the overwhelming need for treating drug addiction, in particular, funding for those who do not have the means to check themselves into expensive rehab units. Some cities have established some safe check-in programs that have proved to work. I would think more of this could be done on a larger scale with grant funding to non-profits to treat drug addiction, and most likely the need to fund new treatment facilities. Get the drug addicts out of prison and into treatment facilities.

 

But those are just a few issues on this side of the border. 

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Re: "Marshall Plan" for Central America

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Message 2 of 42

@MaVolta wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@MaVolta wrote:

 

The first order of business has to be to put the gun and drug trade out of business.

 


I agree with the concept side of your solution. Of course, "how" is the big issue.


Indeed! That's the $64 billion dollar question. Dealing with drugs and guns have been points of contention between the two parties for so long, that it has now come to a boiling point. These are problems that will require spending on a number of fronts, as it seems to require a holistic approach. You can't solve one without addressing the other. We also have work to do in our own back yard concerning poverty, crime, guns, and drugs. They are linked here as well. 


In this case the contention is not guns and drugs but guns and drugs crossing the border. I doubt either can be wished out of existence. But if the border crossings could be controlled better, that would go a long way towards the problems - north and south.

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Re: "Marshall Plan" for Central America

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Message 3 of 42

@rk9152 wrote:

@MaVolta wrote:

 

The first order of business has to be to put the gun and drug trade out of business.

 


I agree with the concept side of your solution. Of course, "how" is the big issue.


Indeed! That's the $64 billion dollar question. Dealing with drugs and guns have been points of contention between the two parties for so long, that it has now come to a boiling point. These are problems that will require spending on a number of fronts, as it seems to require a holistic approach. You can't solve one without addressing the other. We also have work to do in our own back yard concerning poverty, crime, guns, and drugs. They are linked here as well. 

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Re: "Marshall Plan" for Central America

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Message 4 of 42

@MaVolta wrote:

The problems in Central America, and Mexico for that matter, are many: widespread poverty, income disparity, crime, violent crime, guns, and drugs. These are all linked. In order to get more business opportunity and development, you have to first deal with the guns for drugs and organized crime element that runs throughout these countries. The guns flow south from the US and the drugs, north into the US.

 

We first have to recognize that the US has two major problems: drugs (we are the #1 consumer) and guns (we are the #1 producer), and stop the denial of how they are related. Both flow through the major ports of entry undetected. Why? Lack of technological and human resources to detect them.

 

It's not just a matter of giving them American credit to buy American products. They need a better working economy to serve more people. Their main exports are agriculture, some mining production, fishing, and some artisan products, which provide for mostly lower income jobs. Some countries have tourism, but the low paying jobs to the locals do not build up the economy. The money still goes to the wealthy, and the poor remain very poor. 

 

By most accounts, Central American countries have made good strides to improve their educational systems, but poverty and gang violence are keeping many out of school. Many parents cannot afford textbooks, uniforms and supplies, even though the schools may by free or even mandatory. Many children do not complete school as they get older in order to work with their parents to provide a living.

 

And in more recent years, the threat of gang violence has caused many to abandon school. Even with educational development, lack of job opportunity remains. This also accounts for the increased number of unaccompanied minors coming out of the Central American countries.

 

The first order of business has to be to put the gun and drug trade out of business.

 


I agree with the concept side of your solution. Of course, "how" is the big issue.

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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: "Marshall Plan" for Central America

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Message 5 of 42

The problems in Central America, and Mexico for that matter, are many: widespread poverty, income disparity, crime, violent crime, guns, and drugs. These are all linked. In order to get more business opportunity and development, you have to first deal with the guns for drugs and organized crime element that runs throughout these countries. The guns flow south from the US and the drugs, north into the US.

 

We first have to recognize that the US has two major problems: drugs (we are the #1 consumer) and guns (we are the #1 producer), and stop the denial of how they are related. Both flow through the major ports of entry undetected. Why? Lack of technological and human resources to detect them.

 

It's not just a matter of giving them American credit to buy American products. They need a better working economy to serve more people. Their main exports are agriculture, some mining production, fishing, and some artisan products, which provide for mostly lower income jobs. Some countries have tourism, but the low paying jobs to the locals do not build up the economy. The money still goes to the wealthy, and the poor remain very poor. 

 

By most accounts, Central American countries have made good strides to improve their educational systems, but poverty and gang violence are keeping many out of school. Many parents cannot afford textbooks, uniforms and supplies, even though the schools may by free or even mandatory. Many children do not complete school as they get older in order to work with their parents to provide a living.

 

And in more recent years, the threat of gang violence has caused many to abandon school. Even with educational development, lack of job opportunity remains. This also accounts for the increased number of unaccompanied minors coming out of the Central American countries.

 

The first order of business has to be to put the gun and drug trade out of business.

 

 

 

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Re: "Marshall Plan" for Central America

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Message 6 of 42

@Olderscout66 wrote:

Republicans tell their children (regardless of age) the Marshall Plan was SOCIALISM and therefore BAD.

 

The reality is the Marshall Plan was a HUGE Government subsidity to American Business. It created a market for American goods, services and agricultural products that COULD NOT OTHERWISE EXIST.

 

Providing all those things insured full employment for the millions of soldiers, sailors, Marines and merchant seamen who were mustered out as quickly as possible after Japan fell. The things were very difficult to "monitize" on the receiving end, so virtually all of it went to improve the lives of the people we intended to help.

 

This is how most of our "Foriegn Aid" works - we give a credit card to the receiving Government that is only good to buy American products. The money goes to American producers and as with the Marshall Plan, the product is hard to stick under some government official's mattress, so it goes to the intended recepient.

 

We could do it again, but unless we repeal the Reagan taxscam, it will only further enrich the already rich and the American workers will see their real incomes fall farther and farther behind what their parents and grandparents had.

 

Do you REALLY think your boss is 4 times as smart as your parents' boss? Or that YOU are only 1/4th as good at your job as your parents were?

 

No?

 

Then why do you vote for Republicans who rigged the system as if the answer was YES?


Where do you find these whacky ideas. I have never heard anyone call the Marshall Plan Socialism.

 

And then it was a "subsidity"(?) for American business. I have never heard a  "subsidity"(?) for business called Socialism.

 

But back to the topic (if you can forget President Reagan for a moment) - do you think it is a good idea for Central America?

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Re: "Marshall Plan" for Central America

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Message 7 of 42

@Richva wrote:

I think America should build a wall across the entire southern border made of solid gold.  I mean, who cares about whether it is an efficient  use of taxpayer dollars. Right? 


Why gold and how would that help Central America??

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Re: "Marshall Plan" for Central America

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Message 8 of 42

Republicans tell their children (regardless of age) the Marshall Plan was SOCIALISM and therefore BAD.

 

The reality is the Marshall Plan was a HUGE Government subsidity to American Business. It created a market for American goods, services and agricultural products that COULD NOT OTHERWISE EXIST.

 

Providing all those things insured full employment for the millions of soldiers, sailors, Marines and merchant seamen who were mustered out as quickly as possible after Japan fell. The things were very difficult to "monitize" on the receiving end, so virtually all of it went to improve the lives of the people we intended to help.

 

This is how most of our "Foriegn Aid" works - we give a credit card to the receiving Government that is only good to buy American products. The money goes to American producers and as with the Marshall Plan, the product is hard to stick under some government official's mattress, so it goes to the intended recepient.

 

We could do it again, but unless we repeal the Reagan taxscam, it will only further enrich the already rich and the American workers will see their real incomes fall farther and farther behind what their parents and grandparents had.

 

Do you REALLY think your boss is 4 times as smart as your parents' boss? Or that YOU are only 1/4th as good at your job as your parents were?

 

No?

 

Then why do you vote for Republicans who rigged the system as if the answer was YES?

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Re: "Marshall Plan" for Central America

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Message 9 of 42

I think America should build a wall across the entire southern border made of solid gold.  I mean, who cares about whether it is an efficient  use of taxpayer dollars. Right? 

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Re: "Marshall Plan" for Central America

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Message 10 of 42

@Olderscout66 wrote:

Taking property without due process is Unconstitutional. Beyond that, last time I checked, we NEVER had a tax code that was paid using property - no "$10 or 3 chickens" federal income tax rate EVER.

Do you seriously think anyone outside the Republibubble will ever believe we lived with Unconstitutional tax laws from 1936 until 1985 and NOBODY took it to court?


I saw no proposal for "chicken tax" - where did that come from? And I really can't see how the dreaded Reagan tax cuts effect a Central American Marshall Plan.

 

Could you expand on your theories?

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