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Honored Social Butterfly

neoMarxism

While on vacation and peddling my tryke from restaurant to restaurant, I got to thinking about a promise I had made to bring up something very much in need of discussion and clarification. So - 

 

Some are offended by the term "neoMarxist" being used to describe the Progressive Movement. I believe there are two possible reasons for that. One is a lack of understanding of the term – and I shall attempt to fix that in this topic. The other is that some recognize their own ideological tendencies going in that direction and are embarrassed to admit it. Hopefully, this topic will show that there is no reason to not "come out of the closet". 

 

To start with the "don't call me commiecomplaint is not valid. It comes from fear that admitting their Marxist tendencies would tie them to the USSR and Stalin. In reality, a part of the Marxist vision was in play in Russia for the first two years after the revolution under Lenin. The farms were stolen from the landowners and given to those who had worked the land. But then Stalin came into power and adopted the "we the people" theory meaning that everything belonged to all the people – naturally administered by the Central government. The result – the USSR under Stalin in which everything was owned by the government and distributed as it saw fit. 

 

Now, about the Progressive Movement. It was begun by Teddy Roosevelt and did change America, for the better. It strengthened free market capitalism by insuring it's freedom (anti-trust laws). It also protected ALL Americans form the food industry's unhealthy actions. The National Park system was created – for two valuable purposes. It kept the forests for the use of the people and it preserved the trees for the lumber industry. 

 

So, as you can see, Progressivism was off to a good start. But.....well, what happened to it is a story for another day. Let's see if we can first all agree that Teddy had a great idea and there is nothing to be ashamed of about being a Marxist. 

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@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

 

 

Now, trump(assisted by Putin) is the cancer threatening the life of the nation - not the screwball imaginary threat of "neomarxism"...  



Just can't stay focused can you??


I think that the following words posted by alferdpacker were very "focused", and true:

 

 Now, trump(assisted by Putin) is the cancer threatening the life of the nation - not the screwball imaginary threat of "neomarxism"...  


Of course you do thereby making my point.

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Honored Social Butterfly

RK-- Possibly it's trouble  with comprehension!

But in no way did AP make your point, in truth, the opposite is true.

What he is telling you is that it is trump who is a cancer on this country.  

Additionally, he says what we ALL KNOW---that there is no neoMarxist movement within the Progressive party. It dwells only in the realm of delusion, in the fantastical world of trumpland, and in the crazy, dishonest, racist electronic pages of the tradh site Breitbart.

Seems pretty darn clear to me.

Gee, I miss having a real President!!
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@pc6063 wrote:

RK-- Possibly it's trouble  with comprehension!

But in no way did AP make your point, in truth, the opposite is true.

What he is telling you is that it is trump who is a cancer on this country.

Exactly my point. the topic is neoMarxism, not President Trump. Hence, the lack of focus.

 

Additionally, he says what we ALL KNOW---that there is no neoMarxist movement within the Progressive party.

"WE"  don't all know. The neoMarxists among us who, for some unknown reason have a hard time admitting to their agreement with Karl Marx, make the claim as you did.

It dwells only in the realm of delusion, in the fantastical world of trumpland, and in the crazy, dishonest, racist electronic pages of the tradh site Breitbart.

Seems pretty darn clear to me.

And more diversion, Breitbart. Considering that the topic goes back to events over a century ago, Breiitbart is just a knees-jerk reaction when one is at a loss for words. Why not throw Fox News and Limbaugh in while you're at it?


 

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rK--So talk about confuse thinking – – this is Your thread,

this is the thread YOU entitled neo Marxism,

this is the thread where in the original post YOU  compared Neo-Marxism to progressives, and I have lost focus??

 

LOL-- after you retire from the intelligence agencies that you know so much more then, perhaps you could get on stage and be a standup comic because you are extremely funny!

Gee, I miss having a real President!!
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@pc6063 wrote:

rK--So talk about confuse thinking – – this is Your thread,

this is the thread YOU entitled neo Marxism,

this is the thread where in the original post YOU  compared Neo-Marxism to progressives, and I have lost focus??

By becoming a "yeah, me too" for other posters and posting stuff like, "It dwells only in the realm of delusion, in the fantastical world of trumpland, and in the crazy, dishonest, racist electronic pages of the tradh site Breitbart".

 

LOL-- after you retire from the intelligence agencies that you know so much more then, perhaps you could get on stage and be a standup comic because you are extremely funny!

 

Just one more example of the loss of focus.

 

Now, back to the topic. Did Marx not have good ideas? Would you not like to see his "Utopia" become a reality in our world??


 

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@rk9152 wrote:


 

Now, back to the topic. Did Marx not have good ideas? Would you not like to see his "Utopia" become a reality in our world??


 


His ideas never worked out in the real world - which explains why there never has been any such thing as "neomarxism" out here in the real world.

44>dolt45
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Retired Moderator

Thank you for your participation. This thread is now closed.

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RK--ridiculous

Gee, I miss having a real President!!
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@rk9152 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:



The basic theme of the topic is that both Marx and Roosevelt were decent men who wanted to improve the lot of mankind but with very different approaches.

 

There is a modicum of truth there about the decency and honorable intentions of both men - and their wish to help their fellow men live better lives...

 

However the irrefutable fact remains that trump and his administration, very much like those of Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Idi Amin, Pol Pot and a few others of that ilk - is composed primarily of malicious, greedy, sociopathic, evil creatures like trump, trump jr, kushner and bannon - to mention but a few of the worst - or blundering incompetents like carson, devos, perry, and others...

 

A modern updated and unquestionably factual and truthful adaptation of John Stuart Mill's famous observation would now accurately be...

 

" I did not mean that all republicans/conservatives/trump supporters are greedy, evil, and morally bankrupt; I meant, that greedy evil and morally bankrupt persons are generally republicans/conservatives/trump supporters. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any lucid, rational and logical person will question it."

 

Putting the long term health, well-being, and overall good of the nation before good of the party (and corrupt individuals within the party) is something republicans/conservatives/trump supporters have viewed as an abomination and anathema - ever since Nixon - when the permanent and irreversible internal moral decay of the republican party became obvious for the whole world to see...

 

Now, trump(assisted by Putin) is the cancer threatening the life of the nation - not the screwball imaginary threat of "neomarxism"...  



Just can't stay focused can you??


Can't refute it - Ad Hominem attack on the person of the poster....

44>dolt45
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@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:



The basic theme of the topic is that both Marx and Roosevelt were decent men who wanted to improve the lot of mankind but with very different approaches.

 

There is a modicum of truth there about the decency and honorable intentions of both men - and their wish to help their fellow men live better lives...

 

However the irrefutable fact remains that trump and his administration, very much like those of Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Idi Amin, Pol Pot and a few others of that ilk - is composed primarily of malicious, greedy, sociopathic, evil creatures like trump, trump jr, kushner and bannon - to mention but a few of the worst - or blundering incompetents like carson, devos, perry, and others...

 

A modern updated and unquestionably factual and truthful adaptation of John Stuart Mill's famous observation would now accurately be...

 

" I did not mean that all republicans/conservatives/trump supporters are greedy, evil, and morally bankrupt; I meant, that greedy evil and morally bankrupt persons are generally republicans/conservatives/trump supporters. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any lucid, rational and logical person will question it."

 

Putting the long term health, well-being, and overall good of the nation before good of the party (and corrupt individuals within the party) is something republicans/conservatives/trump supporters have viewed as an abomination and anathema - ever since Nixon - when the permanent and irreversible internal moral decay of the republican party became obvious for the whole world to see...

 

Now, trump(assisted by Putin) is the cancer threatening the life of the nation - not the screwball imaginary threat of "neomarxism"...  



Just can't stay focused can you??


Can't refute it - Ad Hominem attack on the person of the poster....


Refute what?? That was a long string of words with nothing to do with the topic. "Ad Hominem attack"???? No, a statement of fact. Now, "screwball imaginary threat".....that might qualify.

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Honored Social Butterfly


@rk9152 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:



The basic theme of the topic is that both Marx and Roosevelt were decent men who wanted to improve the lot of mankind but with very different approaches.

 

There is a modicum of truth there about the decency and honorable intentions of both men - and their wish to help their fellow men live better lives...

 

However the irrefutable fact remains that trump and his administration, very much like those of Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Idi Amin, Pol Pot and a few others of that ilk - is composed primarily of malicious, greedy, sociopathic, evil creatures like trump, trump jr, kushner and bannon - to mention but a few of the worst - or blundering incompetents like carson, devos, perry, and others...

 

A modern updated and unquestionably factual and truthful adaptation of John Stuart Mill's famous observation would now accurately be...

 

" I did not mean that all republicans/conservatives/trump supporters are greedy, evil, and morally bankrupt; I meant, that greedy evil and morally bankrupt persons are generally republicans/conservatives/trump supporters. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any lucid, rational and logical person will question it."

 

Putting the long term health, well-being, and overall good of the nation before good of the party (and corrupt individuals within the party) is something republicans/conservatives/trump supporters have viewed as an abomination and anathema - ever since Nixon - when the permanent and irreversible internal moral decay of the republican party became obvious for the whole world to see...

 

Now, trump(assisted by Putin) is the cancer threatening the life of the nation - not the screwball imaginary threat of "neomarxism"...  



Just can't stay focused can you??


Can't refute it - Ad Hominem attack on the person of the poster....


Refute what?? That was a long string of words with nothing to do with the topic. "Ad Hominem attack"???? No, a statement of fact. Now, "screwball imaginary threat".....that might qualify.


You are correct - "neomarxism" is in fact a screwball imaginary threat.

44>dolt45
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Honored Social Butterfly


@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:



The basic theme of the topic is that both Marx and Roosevelt were decent men who wanted to improve the lot of mankind but with very different approaches.

 

There is a modicum of truth there about the decency and honorable intentions of both men - and their wish to help their fellow men live better lives...

 

However the irrefutable fact remains that trump and his administration, very much like those of Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Idi Amin, Pol Pot and a few others of that ilk - is composed primarily of malicious, greedy, sociopathic, evil creatures like trump, trump jr, kushner and bannon - to mention but a few of the worst - or blundering incompetents like carson, devos, perry, and others...

 

A modern updated and unquestionably factual and truthful adaptation of John Stuart Mill's famous observation would now accurately be...

 

" I did not mean that all republicans/conservatives/trump supporters are greedy, evil, and morally bankrupt; I meant, that greedy evil and morally bankrupt persons are generally republicans/conservatives/trump supporters. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any lucid, rational and logical person will question it."

 

Putting the long term health, well-being, and overall good of the nation before good of the party (and corrupt individuals within the party) is something republicans/conservatives/trump supporters have viewed as an abomination and anathema - ever since Nixon - when the permanent and irreversible internal moral decay of the republican party became obvious for the whole world to see...

 

Now, trump(assisted by Putin) is the cancer threatening the life of the nation - not the screwball imaginary threat of "neomarxism"...  



Just can't stay focused can you??


Can't refute it - Ad Hominem attack on the person of the poster....


Refute what?? That was a long string of words with nothing to do with the topic. "Ad Hominem attack"???? No, a statement of fact. Now, "screwball imaginary threat".....that might qualify.


You are correct - "neomarxism" is in fact a screwball imaginary threat.


In the interest of discussion, let me try a slightly different course. Whether or not the Progressive Movement embodies the thinking of Karl Marx, can you see valid applications of his thinking in modern America?

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Honored Social Butterfly


@rk9152 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:



The basic theme of the topic is that both Marx and Roosevelt were decent men who wanted to improve the lot of mankind but with very different approaches.

 

There is a modicum of truth there about the decency and honorable intentions of both men - and their wish to help their fellow men live better lives...

 

However the irrefutable fact remains that trump and his administration, very much like those of Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Idi Amin, Pol Pot and a few others of that ilk - is composed primarily of malicious, greedy, sociopathic, evil creatures like trump, trump jr, kushner and bannon - to mention but a few of the worst - or blundering incompetents like carson, devos, perry, and others...

 

A modern updated and unquestionably factual and truthful adaptation of John Stuart Mill's famous observation would now accurately be...

 

" I did not mean that all republicans/conservatives/trump supporters are greedy, evil, and morally bankrupt; I meant, that greedy evil and morally bankrupt persons are generally republicans/conservatives/trump supporters. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any lucid, rational and logical person will question it."

 

Putting the long term health, well-being, and overall good of the nation before good of the party (and corrupt individuals within the party) is something republicans/conservatives/trump supporters have viewed as an abomination and anathema - ever since Nixon - when the permanent and irreversible internal moral decay of the republican party became obvious for the whole world to see...

 

Now, trump(assisted by Putin) is the cancer threatening the life of the nation - not the screwball imaginary threat of "neomarxism"...  



Just can't stay focused can you??


Can't refute it - Ad Hominem attack on the person of the poster....


Refute what?? That was a long string of words with nothing to do with the topic. "Ad Hominem attack"???? No, a statement of fact. Now, "screwball imaginary threat".....that might qualify.


You are correct - "neomarxism" is in fact a screwball imaginary threat.


In the interest of discussion, let me try a slightly different course. Whether or not the Progressive Movement embodies the thinking of Karl Marx, can you see valid applications of his thinking in modern America?


No - there's never been any way in which the Modern Progressive Movement embodies any of the uniquely "collectivist/communist" thinking of Karl Marx. 

 

American Progressivism favors Capitalism - always favoring a highly effective equivalent of the Sword of Damocles as a consequence for unacceptable behavior forever held over the head of the "free market" - because as we all know - a great many in our (almost) "free market" business world - like "Soapy" Smith, Ponzi, Madoff, Shkreli, - and trump are con men - scam artists - dishonest.

 

Do progressives favor some applications of "socialism"- something not at all the same as "marxism/communism" and many hundreds of centuries older than Marx/communism?

  

Yep - the vast majority of habitually logical, rational, honorable and honest American Citizens favor helping those who need it - only a minority is too selfish and greedy to countenance it.

 

Having concern for - and wishing to ensure the continuing well-being of one's fellow human beings is a result of an evolved successful survival adaptation - something that predated Marx by well over five hundred centuries.

 

Consider - in a primitive hunter-gather tribe - that a tribal member who was always friendly, kind and gave extra food to those who didn't have it would be valued and protected by other members the tribe, while vile and despicable greedy dishonest and abusive abominations like trump were considerably more likely to be found with their head bashed in, or poisoned etc etc - and nobody having anything to say about it.

Doesn't history record that is what happened far more than half the time to despots dictators and abusive rulers? 

And that's just the surviving records...

Fact is.

 

Wouldn't it be possible for posters here to consider that a logical, rational and plausible reason for the use of Marx(an equivalent of communism) might well be because of some kind of view/opinion that Marx, communism, and the like could be considered to be the ultimate kind of bogeyman threat by an individual who doesn't share the entirety of the majority evaluation of what's considered good and valuable?

 

I remember when one of my kids at about age three or four, in a fit of anger, called me a "soggy rat" because those two things were the worst possible things he could imagine...

 

Just postulating...

 

However it's quite certain that additional attempts - supported by yet more spurious sophistry - will be made to fabricate reworded screwball imaginary connections that have never existed in the real world.

44>dolt45
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@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:



The basic theme of the topic is that both Marx and Roosevelt were decent men who wanted to improve the lot of mankind but with very different approaches.

 

There is a modicum of truth there about the decency and honorable intentions of both men - and their wish to help their fellow men live better lives...

 

However the irrefutable fact remains that trump and his administration, very much like those of Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Idi Amin, Pol Pot and a few others of that ilk - is composed primarily of malicious, greedy, sociopathic, evil creatures like trump, trump jr, kushner and bannon - to mention but a few of the worst - or blundering incompetents like carson, devos, perry, and others...

 

A modern updated and unquestionably factual and truthful adaptation of John Stuart Mill's famous observation would now accurately be...

 

" I did not mean that all republicans/conservatives/trump supporters are greedy, evil, and morally bankrupt; I meant, that greedy evil and morally bankrupt persons are generally republicans/conservatives/trump supporters. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any lucid, rational and logical person will question it."

 

Putting the long term health, well-being, and overall good of the nation before good of the party (and corrupt individuals within the party) is something republicans/conservatives/trump supporters have viewed as an abomination and anathema - ever since Nixon - when the permanent and irreversible internal moral decay of the republican party became obvious for the whole world to see...

 

Now, trump(assisted by Putin) is the cancer threatening the life of the nation - not the screwball imaginary threat of "neomarxism"...  



Just can't stay focused can you??


Can't refute it - Ad Hominem attack on the person of the poster....


Refute what?? That was a long string of words with nothing to do with the topic. "Ad Hominem attack"???? No, a statement of fact. Now, "screwball imaginary threat".....that might qualify.


You are correct - "neomarxism" is in fact a screwball imaginary threat.


In the interest of discussion, let me try a slightly different course. Whether or not the Progressive Movement embodies the thinking of Karl Marx, can you see valid applications of his thinking in modern America?


No - there's never been any way in which the Modern Progressive Movement embodies any of the uniquely "collectivist/communist" thinking of Karl Marx. 

 

American Progressivism favors Capitalism - always favoring a highly effective equivalent of the Sword of Damocles as a consequence for unacceptable behavior forever held over the head of the "free market" - because as we all know - a great many in our (almost) "free market" business world - like "Soapy" Smith, Ponzi, Madoff, Shkreli, - and trump are con men - scam artists - dishonest.

 

Do progressives favor some applications of "socialism"- something not at all the same as "marxism/communism" and many hundreds of centuries older than Marx/communism?

  

Yep - the vast majority of habitually logical, rational, honorable and honest American Citizens favor helping those who need it - only a minority is too selfish and greedy to countenance it.

 

Having concern for - and wishing to ensure the continuing well-being of one's fellow human beings is a result of an evolved successful survival adaptation - something that predated Marx by well over five hundred centuries.

 

Consider - in a primitive hunter-gather tribe - that a tribal member who was always friendly, kind and gave extra food to those who didn't have it would be valued and protected by other members the tribe, while vile and despicable greedy dishonest and abusive abominations like trump were considerably more likely to be found with their head bashed in, or poisoned etc etc - and nobody having anything to say about it.

Doesn't history record that is what happened far more than half the time to despots dictators and abusive rulers? 

And that's just the surviving records...

Fact is.

 

Wouldn't it be possible for posters here to consider that a logical, rational and plausible reason for the use of Marx(an equivalent of communism) might well be because of some kind of view/opinion that Marx, communism, and the like could be considered to be the ultimate kind of bogeyman threat by an individual who doesn't share the entirety of the majority evaluation of what's considered good and valuable?

 

I remember when one of my kids at about age three or four, in a fit of anger, called me a "soggy rat" because those two things were the worst possible things he could imagine...

 

Just postulating...

 

However it's quite certain that additional attempts - supported by yet more spurious sophistry - will be made to fabricate reworded screwball imaginary connections that have never existed in the real world.


None of this exists on the modern political scene??:

http://laissez-fairerepublic.com/tenplanks.html

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Honored Social Butterfly


@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 


Refute what?? That was a long string of words with nothing to do with the topic. "Ad Hominem attack"???? No, a statement of fact. Now, "screwball imaginary threat".....that might qualify.


You are correct - "neomarxism" is in fact a screwball imaginary threat.


"A Screwball Imaginary Threat" would have made a good and more descriptive title for the topic !!!


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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Honored Social Butterfly

@ChasKy53--Don't you think it would be nice if we had something reality based to discuss?? 

Gee, I miss having a real President!!
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@pc6063 wrote:

@ChasKy53--Don't you think it would be nice if we had something reality based to discuss?? 


chas - why do you think some are so afraid of discussing the thinking of Karl Marx? Don't you think that Marx is, in fact, "reality based"?

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@rk9152 wrote:

@pc6063 wrote:

@ChasKy53--Don't you think it would be nice if we had something reality based to discuss?? 


chas - why do you think some are so afraid of discussing the thinking of Karl Marx? Don't you think that Marx is, in fact, "reality based"?


If you want to discuss Karl Marx and his political philosophies, then start a topic on that.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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@pc6063 wrote:

@ChasKy53--Don't you think it would be nice if we had something reality based to discuss?? 


Yep, I guess someone from the Left will have to post a topic !!!


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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@ChasKy53 wrote:

@pc6063 wrote:

@ChasKy53--Don't you think it would be nice if we had something reality based to discuss?? 


Yep, I guess someone from the Left will have to post a topic !!!


I look forward to a discussion on Karl Marx originated by a leftist. When do you suppose that might happen? As good an idea that I think that would be, they seem to be afraid of an honest discussion on that topic. They dodge it with big (albeit meaningless) words, references to someone called "ltiitle donnie", "yeah me too" type posts, and strange stuff about the so called Reagan tax scam.

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Honored Social Butterfly


@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@pc6063 wrote:

@ChasKy53--Don't you think it would be nice if we had something reality based to discuss?? 


Yep, I guess someone from the Left will have to post a topic !!!


I look forward to a discussion on Karl Marx originated by a leftist. When do you suppose that might happen? As good an idea that I think that would be, they seem to be afraid of an honest discussion on that topic. They dodge it with big (albeit meaningless) words, references to someone called "ltiitle donnie", "yeah me too" type posts, and strange stuff about the so called Reagan tax scam.


I look forward to  to an honest discussion of Karl Marx being posted by someone on the Right. This topic isn't about that, it's about a fallacy labeled "neo-Marxism" and erroneously claims a connection of Marxism and Progressiveness. Seems to be an erroneous slam against progressives.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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