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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 31 of 78

@mickstuder wrote:


8 Americans are included in the Total of the Dead From The Second Unexplained Failure of a Boeing 747 Max

 

Trump should have had the FAA expedite a Investigation into the First Crash because so many American Airlines Fly So Many of these Planes - He Did Not

You Know That FOR a FACT?????

 

Now a Second Boeing 747 Max has crashed under similar unexplicable circumstances killing 8 Americans

 

Trump has still not acted

 

He Acted As Was Appropriate. 

 

 

That has everything to do with Kleptocracy

 

As I have POINTED out Grounding one Version OF  a successful Model would NOT gravely effect those Klepts.


 

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 32 of 78

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

Trump is NOT responsible for everything that goes wrong.  By blaming him for everything, you are distracting from real issues.

One of my biggest problems with Trump is that he does not seem to listen to his subject matter experts, since he believes he knows more than they do.

It is up to the FAA to decide what to do about this, not Trump.

If Trump has overruled the FAA, or if the current FAA acting Director is not listening to their own experts, than that is a different story.  But, you simply can't blame Trump for everything bad.  Contrary to some beliefs it is actually impossible for the man to make an incorrect decision every single time, anymore than somebody can make the correct decision every time.


You Are Incorrect -

 

First - Trump Makes Everything About Himself

 

You Don't Get to Claim Credit for Records in the Stock Market - Unemployment - Etc - when those records have been on going since way before you took office - but if you insist then you also get the blame for everything

 

As Far as the FAA - the FAA has been Leaderless for over a year - No Administrator Confirmed by Congress

 

Again - It is Trump Fault because here is his philosophy

 

I’m in no hurry” to name permanent replacements, Trump told reporters Sunday before departing for Camp David. “I sort of like ‘acting.’ It gives me more flexibility, do you understand that? I like ‘acting.’”

 

In other words Trump does not want PERMANENT EXPERTS in critical positions to advise him - he wants - PLACEHOLDERS - that he can over rule or fire if they try to disagree with him by citing fact based information - as opposed to Trumps "gut" inspired decisions

 

Also, when you're setting records for US Presidents playing Golf and Watching Favorite TV Programs

 

The time you have to look at issues like - should I ground Boeing Planes that are crashing like the Leaders of 3 other Countries already have - your time is limited

 

 

 

 


Then your argument should be that Trump has eliminated the FAA.  Since there are still career people there, the question is has this been moved up the priority list or not.  Again, by your blaming Trump for absolutely everything, you are watering down legitimate issues about him.  If you are going to try to claim that EVERYTHING bad is Trump's fault, then you will be taken as a left wing Fox News that cannot be trusted.


No - My Argument Should Be & Is

 

We Don't Have a President in the USA

 

We have someone who is a Dictator & has accelerated US Kleptocracy

 

A Person in the Whitehouse who makes decisions not based on what's best for the United States

 

A Person in the Whitehouse who makes decisions not based on what's best for Americans

 

BUT

 

Whats best for the Trump Brand

 

He & his Family fly on Special Aircraft - Maintained under the Direction of the Secret Service  & Operated with Multiple Redundancys

 

Trump could care less about the Planes Middle Class Americans Fly on

 

8 Americans died Sunday in that Crash - Trump has still not even mentioned that subject

 

Trumps Golfing & Flying on the Best Airplane US Tax Payers $$$ can buy & maintain & with a Fighter Jet escort

 

 


Did Trump design or build the plane?  Has Trump overruled any expert, or put a non-expert into the head position who refuses to listen to the real experts?  Elwell worked for the FAA before Trump was elected.

All you are doing with this thread is being "petty", thus diluting valid arguments on why Trump is not the one to lead the Nation.  I would recommend concentrating on real issues instead of going off on a tangent which looks like exactly what it is.


The only - Dillution - in evidence in this Thread or in the Country for that matter has to do with the Reality ...........................

 

8 Americans died on this Plane & Trump is Mute

 

I am a American and being critical in this case is not Petty

 

The FAA has not had a Administrator since January 2018 - WHY - because Trump wants to call the shots himself & he's not interested in this subject

 

So No One in the US Government is interested or has yet taken this accident seriously or given the Safety of the Flying Public a Priority

 

WHY because Trumps Economic Policies Are Bogus and our Economy is Fragile

 

Trump does not want to Highlight this issue because it will effect the Markets

 

 

 


There is no question but that more Americans that you are ever so concerned about died in car crashes while driving Fords.

 

Any thoughts???


Yes I have thoughts - but of course you will never read them - thats not the reason you ask questions - but your Question illustrates why the Boeing Issue and Trumps lack of Concern for his Fellow Americans is so hideous. 

 

The US Government used to hold Corporations to the same Legal Standard as Citizens until Trump made Kleptocracy the preferred method of operation - like the Corrupt Pay to Play Scheme Trumps Running at Mar a Lago that I'll be covering in it's own thread

 

HERE ARE JUST A FEW OF FORDS - SAFETY VIOLATIONS - AND THE OLD US GOVERNMENTS RESPONSE

 

SAFETY. Ford's reputation as an automaker was seriously blemished in the 1970s, when its new compact Pinto turned out to have a fatal flaw: Its fuel tank was unshielded and located near the back bumper in the fragile car, meaning that rear-end collisions frequently resulted in horrific explosions. Evidence later emerged that Ford was aware of the vulnerability of the gas tank, but went ahead with production of the car. In one civil case a jury awarded $125 million in damages (reduced by the judge to $3.5 million), but in another Pinto case, company executives were found innocent of murder charges. (For more details, see chapter 30 of Russell Mokhiber’s 1988 book Corporate Crime and Violence.)

 

Ford was also embarrassed by reports that many of its cars with automatic transmissions produced during the 1970s had a tendency to slip from park into reverse. In 1981 federal regulators forced the company to send warning notices to purchasers of some 23 million vehicles about the problem. Ford may not have been happy about this, but it was a lot less onerous than the massive recall of the cars that had been urged by public interest groups.

 

In 1996 Ford gave in to public pressure and agreed to pay for replacing ignition switches on more than 8 million cars and trucks that were prone to short circuits that could cause fires. In 1998 State Farm, the largest auto insurer in the United States, sued Ford, charging that the company withheld information about the potential fire hazard from federal regulators and the public. State Farm, which sought to recover monies it paid out in claims relating to the faulty switches, also said that Ford’s 1996 recall did not cover enough vehicles. The insurer released nearly 200 pages of internal documents to back up its claim.

 

In 1999 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration hit Ford with a $425,000 fine in the matter. An investigation later revealed evidence that Ford knew about ignition defects, which also sometimes caused vehicles to stall out while making turns, but remained silent. A California judge then ordered the recall of an additional two million vehicles—the first time a U.S. court had ever taken such an action against automaker.

 

In August 2000 Bridgestone/Firestone announced a massive recall of tires, most of which had been installed on Ford sport-utility vehicles and light trucks. Ford alleged that the tire company had known of the defects for several years. Information later came out suggesting that Ford, as well as Bridgestone/Firestone, had known of the tire defects long before the recalls were announced.

 

A December 2000 investigation by the New York Times found that in the 1980s Ford had taken a number of design shortcuts that raised the risk of rollover accidents in what would become its wildly popular Explorer SUV.

 

Ford and Bridgestone/Firestone continued pointing fingers at one another. In May 2001 the tire maker said it would stop selling tires to Ford, accusing it of using the tire issue to divert attention from the safety of its SUVs. Later, the tire maker called on the U.S. Transportation Department to open a safety investigation of the Ford Explorer and its tendency to experience rollover crashes when a tire failed. In June 2001 the feud between the two companies was displayed as chief executives of the two companies attacked each other during a congressional hearing.

 

In 2013 Ford was fined $17.4 million by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration for taking too long to recall unsafe sport utility vehicles.

 

In 2014 federal regulators forced Ford to expand nationwide a recall of vehicles with airbags made by the Japanese supplier Takata.

 

FORGET LAWSUITS AGAINST BOEING

 

TRUMP WON'T EVEN ERROR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION FOR AMERICANS AND GROUND THESE PLANES UNTIL THE ISSUE IS IDENTIFIED AND CORRECTED

 

SEVERAL OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE PROTECTED THEIR CITIZENS BY DOING SO - TRUMP REFUSES

 

Source - https://www.corp-research.org/ford-motor

 

 

 

 


You mentioned various and sundry LAW SUITES and fining of Ford. But never MENTIONED the government removing ALL Fords from the roads ("grounding").


What has that got to do with Boeing?

 

nothing - it responds to your wild claims about why boeing should be shut down but not ford



It's Called Nuance.....................

 

Boeing is being forced by the Responsible Leaders of Multiple Countries to Ground the Planes - The Boeing 747 Max..................

 

Trump Refuses - Putting the Profits of Airlines - Ahead of American Consumer Safety

 

Ford has been forced by Multiple US Administrations to Recall Millions of Vehicles

 

Research is Helpful in understanding

 

1. History and Development of Product Liability

 

2. The Introduction of the Balancing Approach

With courts struggling to define the middle ground during this time of technological advancement, they faced the same questions legal systems faced in similar times such as the industrial revolution and the growth of railroads. As the advancements created new products and the profits that went with them, courts had to decide what levels of risk society could tolerate and who should bear the costs when harms actually occurred.36

 

3. The "BPL" Formula

"Since there are occasions when every vessel will break from her moorings, and since, if she does, she becomes a menace to those about her; the owner's duty, as in other similar situations, to provide against resulting injuries is a function of three variables: (1) The probability that she will break away; (2) the gravity of the resulting injury, if she does; (3) the burden of adequate precautions. Possibly it serves to bring this notion into relief to state it.in algebraic terms: if the probability be called P; the injury, and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P."39

 

4. LEGAL PRECEDENT

 

Under the theory that Judge Hand developed in Carroll, a party is found negligent and liable for the damages resulting from his actions if B<PL. "B," the burden of adequate precautions, is the accident avoidance cost. "P" is the probability the defendant's actions will result in an accident. "L" is the cost of that accident if it did occur. "PL" is the risk of the activity, the expected liability of the discounted accident cost.40   The negligence standard had been formalized into algebraic terms. If the expected harm exceeded the cost to take precaution, the defendant was obligated to take the precaution, and if they did not, would be held liable

 

Source - https://users.wfu.edu/palmitar/Law&Valuation/Papers/1999/Leggett-pinto.html

 

 


WOW!!! Eight miles long, "P", "L", "BPL", Legal precedent, and "36" - hopefully Boeing will figure it out. Such a shame to turn a technical problem into a partisan squabble. 

 

The analysis will be done soon and I hope the appropriate actions will be taken at that time.

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 33 of 78
Mick posted..

Under Trump The FAA has No Permanent Administrator & hasn't for over a year since the last one resigned - as has been discussed in multiple posts in this thread..............................No Acting Jack is going to make a Call Like This..............................to disrupt the Worlds Aviation

Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft? That is the subject of this thread.

I posted the answer to that question and as usual I got double talk from the author of this thread.


The question of his thread is..
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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 34 of 78

The Boeing 737 Max is now the deadliest mainstream jetliner

 

It will take months to pinpoint why an Ethiopian Airlines 737 Max 8 fell out of the sky in Addis Ababa on March 10, killing all 157 people on board. But the crash is already an urgent problem for Boeing, the jet’s manufacturer, and for nearly 50 airlines flying the plane.

 

The 737 Max is a new jet that has only been in fleets since 2017, and there have now been two fatal crashes, both of them shortly after takeoff. On Oct. 28, 2018, a LionAir 737 Max crashed off the coast of Indonesia, killing all 189 people on board. Investigators have not yet publicly identified the cause of that crash, though they reportedly suspect an automated system that could have put the plane in danger.

 

Two fatal crashes so early in the life of a commercial aircraft is highly unusual, and the fatal-accident rate of the 737 Max is now second-highest of the modern era, after the ill-fated Concorde.

 

The 737 Max has only flown about 500,000 flights, estimates aviation-safety expert Todd Curtis of AirSafe.com. With two crashes causing fatalities, the fatal-accident rate of the 737 Max would be 4 flights per million. That’s far higher than for most modern airliners. The prior version of the 737, for instance, has flown 61 million flights and averages just 0.2 fatal flights per million.

 

“The number of flights for the Max is so small that one crash would make it an outlier,” says Curtis.

 

“Two definitely makes it an outlier. You don’t need to be an epidemiologist to see the rate of accidents is much greater than for other 737s.”

 

Here are fatal-accident rates for most common jetliners of the last several decades:

 

 

 

Boeing 3.png

 

 

Source - https://www.yahoo.com/

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 35 of 78

 

Boeing.png

 

Boeing 1.png

 

Boeing 2.png

 

 

 

Source - New York Times

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 36 of 78

@KidBoy2 wrote:

Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

 

=================================================================

 

I think that would be up to the Federal Aviation Administration not Trump. 

 

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) of the United States is a national authority with powers to regulate all aspects of civil aviation. These include the construction and operation of airports, air traffic management, the certification of personnel and aircraft, and the protection of U.S. assets during the launch or re-entry of commercial space vehicles.


Under Trump The FAA has No Permanent Administrator & hasn't for over a year since the last one resigned - as has been discussed in multiple posts in this thread..............................No Acting Jack is going to make a Call Like This..............................to disrupt the Worlds Aviation 

 

Another reason it's not a Good Idea to have a President like Trump who likes Acting Jacks in Critical US Infrastructure Administrative Positions  - Temporary - Non-Committed - Inexperienced

 

Again 6 of the 24 Trump Cabinet Level Agencies have No Permanent Director

 

The United States of America has No Secretary of Defense

 

Dozens & Dozens of Sub-Cabinet Level Under Secretaries are either Vacant or Acting Jacks

 

 

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 37 of 78

Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

 

=================================================================

 

I think that would be up to the Federal Aviation Administration not Trump. 

 

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) of the United States is a national authority with powers to regulate all aspects of civil aviation. These include the construction and operation of airports, air traffic management, the certification of personnel and aircraft, and the protection of U.S. assets during the launch or re-entry of commercial space vehicles.

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 38 of 78

Aviation experts, consumer advocates and politicians on both sides of the aisle are calling for the Federal Aviation Administration and the airlines that operate the Boeing 737 Max aircraft in the U.S. to ground the jets after an Ethiopian Airlines crash that killed all 157 people on board.

 

This most recent crash of the new Boeing series is the second since the October Lion Air flight accident in Indonesia that killed all 189 people on board.

 

Some industry leaders and consumer advocates say the flights should be grounded until a thorough investigation of the two crashes is completed. Several countries and Norwegian Airlines ordered that the planes be grounded until further notice.

 

TRUMP IS MUTE

 

Source - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ethiopian-airline-crash-aviation-advocates-call-faa-ground-boei...

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 39 of 78

NOPE, everyone here is wrong, what donald is complaining about is that the planes made today are too darn complicated and pilots are just incapable of flying them.   I can suppose that is supposed to buoy the AirCraft industry...NOT

 

He is waiting for a maga plane circa Wright Bros.    seriously.   https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-planes-complicated-fly-pilots-bo...

PRO-LIFE is Affordable Healthcare for ALL .
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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 40 of 78

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

Several More Leaders Of Major Countries - Put the Safety of their Citizens ahead of Corporate Profits

 

England - Ireland - Australia - Oman - Mexico - France

 

TRUMP STILL REFUSES TO PUT THE SAFETY OF AMERICANS BEFORE THE PROFITS OF CORPORATIONS

 

Source - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ethiopian-airlines-crash-britain-grounds-boeing-737-jet-model-n98...

 

 

 


PROFITS FOR COMPANIES ----------OR MAYBE CONVENIENCE OF PASSENGERS

 

I can't imagine that the temporary grounding of one version of one model of a company's fleet is anything to involve the Klepts or Plutos or Autos.


8 Americans are included in the Total of the Dead From The Second Unexplained Failure of a Boeing 747 Max

 

Trump should have had the FAA expedite a Investigation into the First Crash because so many American Airlines Fly So Many of these Planes - He Did Not

 

Now a Second Boeing 747 Max has crashed under similar unexplicable circumstances killing 8 Americans

 

Trump has still not acted

 

That has everything to do with Kleptocracy

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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