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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 21 of 78

Report: U.S. government shutdown delayed Boeing ‘safety fix’

 

Amid the global aviation chaos caused by the grounding of Boeing 737MAX aircraft in the wake of Sunday’s Ethiopian Airlines tragedy, comes the news that a software upgrade planned for the planes is delayed because of a 35-day United States government shutdown in December and January.

 

The Wall Street Journal originally reported on February 10 that the “safety fixes” for the Boeing series, prompted by the Indonesian Lion Air Flight 610 accident in October, were delayed by the shutdown and negotiations between U.S. aviation officials and Boeing. They will not be available until at least April.

 

Source - https://africatimes.com/2019/03/13/report-u-s-government-shutdown-delayed-boeing-safety-fix/

 

 

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 22 of 78

@sp362 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:



 

FACT

 

Boeing is a American Corporation

 

Trump is the American President

 

US Bureaucracy puts the FAA under the Dept. Of Transportation

 

The FAA Administrator resigned 15 months ago

 

Trump has not nominated or appointed a Permanent Replacement

 

WHY - Because he wants to micromanage everything in the US Government - that's impossible - so lots of Important Things are not being attended too or effectively coordinated & managed

 

After the first Crash - Boeings internal investigation uncovered a - software glitch in the auto-pilot during take-off

 

A patch was developed and because this specific Boeing Aircraft flys 8500 trips every week with thousands in & out of American Airports - the FAA had to be involved in coordinating the software upgrades for all these planes which is a tad more involved then updating your Cell Phone

 

The update was scheduled to take place during the month of January 2019

 

Then Trump shut-down the Government and the scheduling of the software upgrade was put on hold

 

Now its March & another plane has crashed with all the preliminary reports pointing to same software issue where a patch has been developed but as yet not implemented

 

Again - 8 Americans Died in between the first crash - the problem being identified & not corrected before the second crash happened -

 

My position is this tragedy is at least in part because of Trumps Incompetence - not understanding that the US Government is way more complex & requires way more Major Decision Makers than a Mom & Pop Real Estate Branding Company

 

A Permanent Competent  FAA Administrator on the job for over a year may have been aware of US Pilots Concerns &  May have been more capable of intervention even before the first crash

 

 

 

 


No, you seem to be missing the entire point.  How many times have you complained because has either not listened or overrode his subject matter experts?  Now you are complaining because he isn't doing the very thing that you have complained about before.  You are complaining because Trump isn't doing the "mom and pop" decision making that you are complaining about.  THAT LOOKS LIKE THE PETTY SNIPING THAT IT IS.  Pilots file incident reports all of the time.  If they really feel unsafe, they will refuse to fly the plane.

 

By the way, your rant is simply what Rachel Maddow had to say and she was being overly dramatic.  She didn't bother to say how many incidents reports were filed compared to the number of flights and what the average rates of incident reports are for all planes.

 

As I have said before, by trying to blame Trump for everything, you are simply watering down the real issues that are under his control.


Rachel Maddow? - Dallas News

 

Boeing 737 Max 8 pilots complained to feds for months about suspected safety flaw

 

Pilots repeatedly voiced safety concerns about the Boeing 737 Max 8 to federal authorities, with one captain calling the flight manual "inadequate and almost criminally insufficient" several months before Sunday's Ethiopian Air crash that killed 157 people, an investigation by The Dallas Morning News found.

 

The News found at least five complaints about the Boeing model in a federal database where pilots can voluntarily report about aviation incidents without fear of repercussions.

 

The complaints are about the safety mechanism cited in preliminary reports about an October plane crash in Indonesia that killed 189. 

 

The disclosures found by The News reference problems during Boeing 737 Max 8 flights with an autopilot system, and they all occurred while trying to gain altitude during takeoff — many mentioned the plane turning nose down suddenly. While records show these flights occurred during October and November, the information about which airlines the pilots were flying for is redacted from the database.

 

Source - https://www.dallasnews.com/business/airlines/2019/03/12/boeing-737-max-8-pilots-complained-feds-mont...

 

Rachel Maddow? - Associated Press

 

Criticism of FAA mounts as other nations ground Boeing jets

 

WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration is facing mounting criticism for backing the airworthiness of Boeing’s 737 Max jets as the number of countries that have grounded the aircraft grows in the wake of the Ethiopian Airlines crash over the weekend.

 

The rest of the world typically takes it cues from the FAA, long considered the world’s gold standard for aircraft safety. Yet other aviation safety regulators, including the European Union, China, Australia and the United Kingdom, have decided not to wait for the FAA to act. The Ethiopian disaster came just five months after the deadly crash of another new Boeing 737 Max 8 operated by Lion Air in Indonesia.

 

Rep. Peter DeFazio, D-Ore., the chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, said in a statement Tuesday that he’s concerned that international aviation regulators are providing more certainty to the flying public than the FAA.

 

Rachel Maddow - Consumer Reports - Ray Lahood - Former US Trans Secretary 

 

The FAA has increasingly become cozy with airplane manufacturers and airlines when it should be more pro-active in safety, said Bill McGee, aviation adviser for Consumer Reports.

 

“Increasingly the FAA is relying more and more on what the industry calls electronic surveillance,” added McGee, who has written about aviation for nearly two decades. “Not going out and kicking the tires, seeing the work being done, making sure it’s being done properly.”

 

Former Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood also called for the U.S. to ground the 737 Max, just as his agency halted flights of another Boeing plane six years ago because of safety concerns.

 

“These planes need to be inspected before people get on them,” LaHood said Tuesday.

 

“The flying public expects somebody in the government to look after safety, and that’s DOT’s responsibility.”

 

LaHood was Department of Transportation secretary in 2013 when the department grounded the Boeing 787 because of overheating lithium-ion battery packs. The planes were idled for less than a month, until Boeing crafted new fire-resistant compartments around the batteries.

 

 

Source - https://www.apnews.com/0d26ade6ff9044d2b8c81fc8000d61cb

 

 

Rachel Maddow? - Wall Street Journal

 

Report: U.S. government shutdown delayed Boeing ‘safety fix’

 

Amid the global aviation chaos caused by the grounding of Boeing 737MAX aircraft in the wake of Sunday’s Ethiopian Airlines tragedy, comes the news that a software upgrade planned for the planes is delayed because of a 35-day United States government shutdown in December and January.

 

The Wall Street Journal originally reported on February 10 that the “safety fixes” for the Boeing series, prompted by the Indonesian Lion Air Flight 610 accident in October, were delayed by the shutdown and negotiations between U.S. aviation officials and Boeing. They will not be available until at least April.

 

Source - https://africatimes.com/2019/03/13/report-u-s-government-shutdown-delayed-boeing-safety-fix/

 

 

 

 

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 23 of 78

@mickstuder wrote:



 

FACT

 

Boeing is a American Corporation

 

Trump is the American President

 

US Bureaucracy puts the FAA under the Dept. Of Transportation

 

The FAA Administrator resigned 15 months ago

 

Trump has not nominated or appointed a Permanent Replacement

 

WHY - Because he wants to micromanage everything in the US Government - that's impossible - so lots of Important Things are not being attended too or effectively coordinated & managed

 

After the first Crash - Boeings internal investigation uncovered a - software glitch in the auto-pilot during take-off

 

A patch was developed and because this specific Boeing Aircraft flys 8500 trips every week with thousands in & out of American Airports - the FAA had to be involved in coordinating the software upgrades for all these planes which is a tad more involved then updating your Cell Phone

 

The update was scheduled to take place during the month of January 2019

 

Then Trump shut-down the Government and the scheduling of the software upgrade was put on hold

 

Now its March & another plane has crashed with all the preliminary reports pointing to same software issue where a patch has been developed but as yet not implemented

 

Again - 8 Americans Died in between the first crash - the problem being identified & not corrected before the second crash happened -

 

My position is this tragedy is at least in part because of Trumps Incompetence - not understanding that the US Government is way more complex & requires way more Major Decision Makers than a Mom & Pop Real Estate Branding Company

 

A Permanent Competent  FAA Administrator on the job for over a year may have been aware of US Pilots Concerns &  May have been more capable of intervention even before the first crash

 

 

 

 


No, you seem to be missing the entire point.  How many times have you complained because has either not listened or overrode his subject matter experts?  Now you are complaining because he isn't doing the very thing that you have complained about before.  You are complaining because Trump isn't doing the "mom and pop" decision making that you are complaining about.  THAT LOOKS LIKE THE PETTY SNIPING THAT IT IS.  Pilots file incident reports all of the time.  If they really feel unsafe, they will refuse to fly the plane.

 

By the way, your rant is simply what Rachel Maddow had to say and she was being overly dramatic.  She didn't bother to say how many incidents reports were filed compared to the number of flights and what the average rates of incident reports are for all planes.

 

As I have said before, by trying to blame Trump for everything, you are simply watering down the real issues that are under his control.

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 24 of 78

@sp362 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@afisher wrote:

NOPE, everyone here is wrong, what donald is complaining about is that the planes made today are too darn complicated and pilots are just incapable of flying them.   I can suppose that is supposed to buoy the AirCraft industry...NOT

 

He is waiting for a maga plane circa Wright Bros.    seriously.   https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-planes-complicated-fly-pilots-bo...


Not complaining but stating something people have been concerned about since "fly by wire" was introduced probably about 30 years ago. How much does the pilot vs the computer control.

 

Snottiness about the Wright Brothers misses an important fact.


Actually, if he bothered to look it up, he would have discovered that the safety record today is much better than it was 30 years ago.  Since Trump is NOT a subject matter expert, he should be following the recommendations of the FAA. 

If the three American lines that fly this plane (and not that many of them) are worried about safety the could ground the flights on their own.  After all, it is far cheaper to cancel a few flights than to pay for a plane crash.

There is an awful lot being put on the fact that there have been two issues in two years.  What is ignored in that is that they may or may not be the same problem. The first incident, Lion Air, was from a company with such a horrible record that it was banned from flying into the US until 2016 (it was founded in 1999).

Normally, when you talk about partisan issues, I disagree with your definition of what is and is not partisan.  However, this particular thread seems to be about as partisan as you can get.  To blame Trump for not taking action is ridiculous.  As I said before, if he ignored his FAA recommendations, then I would hold him accountable. I for one, don't expect him to be an expert on everything.  Personally, I have a problem with him not listening to his experts.  If he chooses to ground the 737s without listening to the real professionals, then that action I would disagree with.


There are multiple Public Airline Pilots Data Bases where Dozens of American Pilots have reported in flight anomalies with the Boeing 737 Max Auto-pilot after engaging during take-off

 

The first 737 Max was only put into service in 2016

 

Almost every other Country in the World has grounded these planes - preferring to error on the side of their Citizens Safety

 

If this isnt a Partisan Issue what is it

 

A Republican President with the Authority & Constitutional Responsibility to protect the Safety of American Citizens - refuses to act

 

A Republican Senate with the Advise & Consent Authority & Constitutional Responsibilty - refuses to act

 

The USA has a President who refuses in over a 12 month period to nominate a FAA Administrator

 

Why is that?

 

BTW - 8 Americans died in this most recent crash

 

Boeing announced a fix - but because of the Government Shutdown - instead of being implemented in January - it's been delayed

 

Answer to all the above

 

$$$$$$$$$$

 

And the truth about Trumps involvement & possible culpability is yet to be revealed

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


If the US pilots really felt the 737 Max was unsafe to fly, they could refuse to fly it and be protected by whistle blower laws.  Again, FAA and airline decision on whether or not this model should continue to fly.  If you are saying that has influenced the FAA, then you can question his motives.  Otherwise, he should not pretend to be an expert and make a decision on it without looking at facts.  That is what does entirely too often.


You are completely missing the point - either purposefully or because you haven't bothered to research the issue under discussion

 

FACT

 

Boeing is a American Corporation

 

Trump is the American President

 

US Bureaucracy puts the FAA under the Dept. Of Transportation

 

The FAA Administrator resigned 15 months ago

 

Trump has not nominated or appointed a Permanent Replacement

 

WHY - Because he wants to micromanage everything in the US Government - that's impossible - so lots of Important Things are not being attended too or effectively coordinated & managed

 

After the first Crash - Boeings internal investigation uncovered a - software glitch in the auto-pilot during take-off

 

A patch was developed and because this specific Boeing Aircraft flys 8500 trips every week with thousands in & out of American Airports - the FAA had to be involved in coordinating the software upgrades for all these planes which is a tad more involved then updating your Cell Phone

 

The update was scheduled to take place during the month of January 2019

 

Then Trump shut-down the Government and the scheduling of the software upgrade was put on hold

 

Now its March & another plane has crashed with all the preliminary reports pointing to same software issue where a patch has been developed but as yet not implemented

 

Again - 8 Americans Died in between the first crash - the problem being identified & not corrected before the second crash happened -

 

My position is this tragedy is at least in part because of Trumps Incompetence - not understanding that the US Government is way more complex & requires way more Major Decision Makers than a Mom & Pop Real Estate Branding Company

 

A Permanent Competent  FAA Administrator on the job for over a year may have been aware of US Pilots Concerns &  May have been more capable of intervention even before the first crash

 

 

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 25 of 78

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@afisher wrote:

NOPE, everyone here is wrong, what donald is complaining about is that the planes made today are too darn complicated and pilots are just incapable of flying them.   I can suppose that is supposed to buoy the AirCraft industry...NOT

 

He is waiting for a maga plane circa Wright Bros.    seriously.   https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-planes-complicated-fly-pilots-bo...


Not complaining but stating something people have been concerned about since "fly by wire" was introduced probably about 30 years ago. How much does the pilot vs the computer control.

 

Snottiness about the Wright Brothers misses an important fact.


Actually, if he bothered to look it up, he would have discovered that the safety record today is much better than it was 30 years ago.  Since Trump is NOT a subject matter expert, he should be following the recommendations of the FAA. 

If the three American lines that fly this plane (and not that many of them) are worried about safety the could ground the flights on their own.  After all, it is far cheaper to cancel a few flights than to pay for a plane crash.

There is an awful lot being put on the fact that there have been two issues in two years.  What is ignored in that is that they may or may not be the same problem. The first incident, Lion Air, was from a company with such a horrible record that it was banned from flying into the US until 2016 (it was founded in 1999).

Normally, when you talk about partisan issues, I disagree with your definition of what is and is not partisan.  However, this particular thread seems to be about as partisan as you can get.  To blame Trump for not taking action is ridiculous.  As I said before, if he ignored his FAA recommendations, then I would hold him accountable. I for one, don't expect him to be an expert on everything.  Personally, I have a problem with him not listening to his experts.  If he chooses to ground the 737s without listening to the real professionals, then that action I would disagree with.


There are multiple Public Airline Pilots Data Bases where Dozens of American Pilots have reported in flight anomalies with the Boeing 737 Max Auto-pilot after engaging during take-off

 

The first 737 Max was only put into service in 2016

 

Almost every other Country in the World has grounded these planes - preferring to error on the side of their Citizens Safety

 

If this isnt a Partisan Issue what is it

 

A Republican President with the Authority & Constitutional Responsibility to protect the Safety of American Citizens - refuses to act

 

A Republican Senate with the Advise & Consent Authority & Constitutional Responsibilty - refuses to act

 

The USA has a President who refuses in over a 12 month period to nominate a FAA Administrator

 

Why is that?

 

BTW - 8 Americans died in this most recent crash

 

Boeing announced a fix - but because of the Government Shutdown - instead of being implemented in January - it's been delayed

 

Answer to all the above

 

$$$$$$$$$$

 

And the truth about Trumps involvement & possible culpability is yet to be revealed

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


If the US pilots really felt the 737 Max was unsafe to fly, they could refuse to fly it and be protected by whistle blower laws.  Again, FAA and airline decision on whether or not this model should continue to fly.  If you are saying that has influenced the FAA, then you can question his motives.  Otherwise, he should not pretend to be an expert and make a decision on it without looking at facts.  That is what does entirely too often.

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 26 of 78

@sp362 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@afisher wrote:

NOPE, everyone here is wrong, what donald is complaining about is that the planes made today are too darn complicated and pilots are just incapable of flying them.   I can suppose that is supposed to buoy the AirCraft industry...NOT

 

He is waiting for a maga plane circa Wright Bros.    seriously.   https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-planes-complicated-fly-pilots-bo...


Not complaining but stating something people have been concerned about since "fly by wire" was introduced probably about 30 years ago. How much does the pilot vs the computer control.

 

Snottiness about the Wright Brothers misses an important fact.


Actually, if he bothered to look it up, he would have discovered that the safety record today is much better than it was 30 years ago.  Since Trump is NOT a subject matter expert, he should be following the recommendations of the FAA. 

If the three American lines that fly this plane (and not that many of them) are worried about safety the could ground the flights on their own.  After all, it is far cheaper to cancel a few flights than to pay for a plane crash.

There is an awful lot being put on the fact that there have been two issues in two years.  What is ignored in that is that they may or may not be the same problem. The first incident, Lion Air, was from a company with such a horrible record that it was banned from flying into the US until 2016 (it was founded in 1999).

Normally, when you talk about partisan issues, I disagree with your definition of what is and is not partisan.  However, this particular thread seems to be about as partisan as you can get.  To blame Trump for not taking action is ridiculous.  As I said before, if he ignored his FAA recommendations, then I would hold him accountable. I for one, don't expect him to be an expert on everything.  Personally, I have a problem with him not listening to his experts.  If he chooses to ground the 737s without listening to the real professionals, then that action I would disagree with.


There are multiple Public Airline Pilots Data Bases where Dozens of American Pilots have reported in flight anomalies with the Boeing 737 Max Auto-pilot after engaging during take-off

 

The first 737 Max was only put into service in 2016

 

Almost every other Country in the World has grounded these planes - preferring to error on the side of their Citizens Safety

 

If this isnt a Partisan Issue what is it

 

A Republican President with the Authority & Constitutional Responsibility to protect the Safety of American Citizens - refuses to act

 

A Republican Senate with the Advise & Consent Authority & Constitutional Responsibilty - refuses to act

 

The USA has a President who refuses in over a 12 month period to nominate a FAA Administrator

 

Why is that?

 

BTW - 8 Americans died in this most recent crash

 

Boeing announced a fix - but because of the Government Shutdown - instead of being implemented in January - it's been delayed

 

Answer to all the above

 

$$$$$$$$$$

 

And the truth about Trumps involvement & possible culpability is yet to be revealed

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 27 of 78

@rk9152 wrote:

@afisher wrote:

NOPE, everyone here is wrong, what donald is complaining about is that the planes made today are too darn complicated and pilots are just incapable of flying them.   I can suppose that is supposed to buoy the AirCraft industry...NOT

 

He is waiting for a maga plane circa Wright Bros.    seriously.   https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-planes-complicated-fly-pilots-bo...


Not complaining but stating something people have been concerned about since "fly by wire" was introduced probably about 30 years ago. How much does the pilot vs the computer control.

 

Snottiness about the Wright Brothers misses an important fact.


Actually, if he bothered to look it up, he would have discovered that the safety record today is much better than it was 30 years ago.  Since Trump is NOT a subject matter expert, he should be following the recommendations of the FAA. 

If the three American lines that fly this plane (and not that many of them) are worried about safety the could ground the flights on their own.  After all, it is far cheaper to cancel a few flights than to pay for a plane crash.

There is an awful lot being put on the fact that there have been two issues in two years.  What is ignored in that is that they may or may not be the same problem. The first incident, Lion Air, was from a company with such a horrible record that it was banned from flying into the US until 2016 (it was founded in 1999).

Normally, when you talk about partisan issues, I disagree with your definition of what is and is not partisan.  However, this particular thread seems to be about as partisan as you can get.  To blame Trump for not taking action is ridiculous.  As I said before, if he ignored his FAA recommendations, then I would hold him accountable. I for one, don't expect him to be an expert on everything.  Personally, I have a problem with him not listening to his experts.  If he chooses to ground the 737s without listening to the real professionals, then that action I would disagree with.

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 28 of 78

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:


8 Americans are included in the Total of the Dead From The Second Unexplained Failure of a Boeing 747 Max

 

Trump should have had the FAA expedite a Investigation into the First Crash because so many American Airlines Fly So Many of these Planes - He Did Not

You Know That FOR a FACT?????

 

Now a Second Boeing 747 Max has crashed under similar unexplicable circumstances killing 8 Americans

 

Trump has still not acted

 

He Acted As Was Appropriate. 

 

 

That has everything to do with Kleptocracy

 

As I have POINTED out Grounding one Version OF  a successful Model would NOT gravely effect those Klepts.


 


I already know FACTS have no bearing on any of your commentary - but I'll keep trying

 

1. Successful Model - how long has this Model been flying 1 year 2 years 3 years ?

 

2. My concern here is - we just received even more evidence today of how integral corruption is to not only our Politics & Business - but now even our Academic Infrastructure - is For Sale to those with the ability to pay

 

How many billions are on the line when there are 5000 of these planes on order right now

 

8500 flights per week

 

3. It indefensible to watch the Majority of the Worlds Countries - Ground this Plane - and the USA Refuses

 

Especially when Boeing itself has determined the Planes Software requires a patch after just investigation of the first crash

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 29 of 78
Mick posted..

Under Trump The FAA has No Permanent Administrator & hasn't for over a year since the last one resigned - as has been discussed in multiple posts in this thread..............................No Acting Jack is going to make a Call Like This..............................to disrupt the Worlds Aviation

=========================================================

FYI Mick...The Secretary of Transportation is Elaine Chow...and she has the authority to ground Air Planes ...and she has been The Department of Transportation (DOT) since 2017 it is a cabinet-level agency of the federal government responsible for helping maintain and develop the nation's transportation systems and infrastructure.
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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 30 of 78

@afisher wrote:

NOPE, everyone here is wrong, what donald is complaining about is that the planes made today are too darn complicated and pilots are just incapable of flying them.   I can suppose that is supposed to buoy the AirCraft industry...NOT

 

He is waiting for a maga plane circa Wright Bros.    seriously.   https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-planes-complicated-fly-pilots-bo...


Not complaining but stating something people have been concerned about since "fly by wire" was introduced probably about 30 years ago. How much does the pilot vs the computer control.

 

Snottiness about the Wright Brothers misses an important fact.

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