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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 41 of 78

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

Trump is NOT responsible for everything that goes wrong.  By blaming him for everything, you are distracting from real issues.

One of my biggest problems with Trump is that he does not seem to listen to his subject matter experts, since he believes he knows more than they do.

It is up to the FAA to decide what to do about this, not Trump.

If Trump has overruled the FAA, or if the current FAA acting Director is not listening to their own experts, than that is a different story.  But, you simply can't blame Trump for everything bad.  Contrary to some beliefs it is actually impossible for the man to make an incorrect decision every single time, anymore than somebody can make the correct decision every time.


You Are Incorrect -

 

First - Trump Makes Everything About Himself

 

You Don't Get to Claim Credit for Records in the Stock Market - Unemployment - Etc - when those records have been on going since way before you took office - but if you insist then you also get the blame for everything

 

As Far as the FAA - the FAA has been Leaderless for over a year - No Administrator Confirmed by Congress

 

Again - It is Trump Fault because here is his philosophy

 

I’m in no hurry” to name permanent replacements, Trump told reporters Sunday before departing for Camp David. “I sort of like ‘acting.’ It gives me more flexibility, do you understand that? I like ‘acting.’”

 

In other words Trump does not want PERMANENT EXPERTS in critical positions to advise him - he wants - PLACEHOLDERS - that he can over rule or fire if they try to disagree with him by citing fact based information - as opposed to Trumps "gut" inspired decisions

 

Also, when you're setting records for US Presidents playing Golf and Watching Favorite TV Programs

 

The time you have to look at issues like - should I ground Boeing Planes that are crashing like the Leaders of 3 other Countries already have - your time is limited

 

 

 

 


Then your argument should be that Trump has eliminated the FAA.  Since there are still career people there, the question is has this been moved up the priority list or not.  Again, by your blaming Trump for absolutely everything, you are watering down legitimate issues about him.  If you are going to try to claim that EVERYTHING bad is Trump's fault, then you will be taken as a left wing Fox News that cannot be trusted.


No - My Argument Should Be & Is

 

We Don't Have a President in the USA

 

We have someone who is a Dictator & has accelerated US Kleptocracy

 

A Person in the Whitehouse who makes decisions not based on what's best for the United States

 

A Person in the Whitehouse who makes decisions not based on what's best for Americans

 

BUT

 

Whats best for the Trump Brand

 

He & his Family fly on Special Aircraft - Maintained under the Direction of the Secret Service  & Operated with Multiple Redundancys

 

Trump could care less about the Planes Middle Class Americans Fly on

 

8 Americans died Sunday in that Crash - Trump has still not even mentioned that subject

 

Trumps Golfing & Flying on the Best Airplane US Tax Payers $$$ can buy & maintain & with a Fighter Jet escort

 

 


Did Trump design or build the plane?  Has Trump overruled any expert, or put a non-expert into the head position who refuses to listen to the real experts?  Elwell worked for the FAA before Trump was elected.

All you are doing with this thread is being "petty", thus diluting valid arguments on why Trump is not the one to lead the Nation.  I would recommend concentrating on real issues instead of going off on a tangent which looks like exactly what it is.


The only - Dillution - in evidence in this Thread or in the Country for that matter has to do with the Reality ...........................

 

8 Americans died on this Plane & Trump is Mute

 

I am a American and being critical in this case is not Petty

 

The FAA has not had a Administrator since January 2018 - WHY - because Trump wants to call the shots himself & he's not interested in this subject

 

So No One in the US Government is interested or has yet taken this accident seriously or given the Safety of the Flying Public a Priority

 

WHY because Trumps Economic Policies Are Bogus and our Economy is Fragile

 

Trump does not want to Highlight this issue because it will effect the Markets

 

 

 


There is no question but that more Americans that you are ever so concerned about died in car crashes while driving Fords.

 

Any thoughts???


Yes I have thoughts - but of course you will never read them - thats not the reason you ask questions - but your Question illustrates why the Boeing Issue and Trumps lack of Concern for his Fellow Americans is so hideous. 

 

The US Government used to hold Corporations to the same Legal Standard as Citizens until Trump made Kleptocracy the preferred method of operation - like the Corrupt Pay to Play Scheme Trumps Running at Mar a Lago that I'll be covering in it's own thread

 

HERE ARE JUST A FEW OF FORDS - SAFETY VIOLATIONS - AND THE OLD US GOVERNMENTS RESPONSE

 

SAFETY. Ford's reputation as an automaker was seriously blemished in the 1970s, when its new compact Pinto turned out to have a fatal flaw: Its fuel tank was unshielded and located near the back bumper in the fragile car, meaning that rear-end collisions frequently resulted in horrific explosions. Evidence later emerged that Ford was aware of the vulnerability of the gas tank, but went ahead with production of the car. In one civil case a jury awarded $125 million in damages (reduced by the judge to $3.5 million), but in another Pinto case, company executives were found innocent of murder charges. (For more details, see chapter 30 of Russell Mokhiber’s 1988 book Corporate Crime and Violence.)

 

Ford was also embarrassed by reports that many of its cars with automatic transmissions produced during the 1970s had a tendency to slip from park into reverse. In 1981 federal regulators forced the company to send warning notices to purchasers of some 23 million vehicles about the problem. Ford may not have been happy about this, but it was a lot less onerous than the massive recall of the cars that had been urged by public interest groups.

 

In 1996 Ford gave in to public pressure and agreed to pay for replacing ignition switches on more than 8 million cars and trucks that were prone to short circuits that could cause fires. In 1998 State Farm, the largest auto insurer in the United States, sued Ford, charging that the company withheld information about the potential fire hazard from federal regulators and the public. State Farm, which sought to recover monies it paid out in claims relating to the faulty switches, also said that Ford’s 1996 recall did not cover enough vehicles. The insurer released nearly 200 pages of internal documents to back up its claim.

 

In 1999 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration hit Ford with a $425,000 fine in the matter. An investigation later revealed evidence that Ford knew about ignition defects, which also sometimes caused vehicles to stall out while making turns, but remained silent. A California judge then ordered the recall of an additional two million vehicles—the first time a U.S. court had ever taken such an action against automaker.

 

In August 2000 Bridgestone/Firestone announced a massive recall of tires, most of which had been installed on Ford sport-utility vehicles and light trucks. Ford alleged that the tire company had known of the defects for several years. Information later came out suggesting that Ford, as well as Bridgestone/Firestone, had known of the tire defects long before the recalls were announced.

 

A December 2000 investigation by the New York Times found that in the 1980s Ford had taken a number of design shortcuts that raised the risk of rollover accidents in what would become its wildly popular Explorer SUV.

 

Ford and Bridgestone/Firestone continued pointing fingers at one another. In May 2001 the tire maker said it would stop selling tires to Ford, accusing it of using the tire issue to divert attention from the safety of its SUVs. Later, the tire maker called on the U.S. Transportation Department to open a safety investigation of the Ford Explorer and its tendency to experience rollover crashes when a tire failed. In June 2001 the feud between the two companies was displayed as chief executives of the two companies attacked each other during a congressional hearing.

 

In 2013 Ford was fined $17.4 million by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration for taking too long to recall unsafe sport utility vehicles.

 

In 2014 federal regulators forced Ford to expand nationwide a recall of vehicles with airbags made by the Japanese supplier Takata.

 

FORGET LAWSUITS AGAINST BOEING

 

TRUMP WON'T EVEN ERROR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION FOR AMERICANS AND GROUND THESE PLANES UNTIL THE ISSUE IS IDENTIFIED AND CORRECTED

 

SEVERAL OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE PROTECTED THEIR CITIZENS BY DOING SO - TRUMP REFUSES

 

Source - https://www.corp-research.org/ford-motor

 

 

 

 


You mentioned various and sundry LAW SUITES and fining of Ford. But never MENTIONED the government removing ALL Fords from the roads ("grounding").


What has that got to do with Boeing?

 

nothing - it responds to your wild claims about why boeing should be shut down but not ford



It's Called Nuance.....................

 

Boeing is being forced by the Responsible Leaders of Multiple Countries to Ground the Planes - The Boeing 747 Max..................

 

Trump Refuses - Putting the Profits of Airlines - Ahead of American Consumer Safety

 

Ford has been forced by Multiple US Administrations to Recall Millions of Vehicles

 

Research is Helpful in understanding

 

1. History and Development of Product Liability

 

2. The Introduction of the Balancing Approach

With courts struggling to define the middle ground during this time of technological advancement, they faced the same questions legal systems faced in similar times such as the industrial revolution and the growth of railroads. As the advancements created new products and the profits that went with them, courts had to decide what levels of risk society could tolerate and who should bear the costs when harms actually occurred.36

 

3. The "BPL" Formula

"Since there are occasions when every vessel will break from her moorings, and since, if she does, she becomes a menace to those about her; the owner's duty, as in other similar situations, to provide against resulting injuries is a function of three variables: (1) The probability that she will break away; (2) the gravity of the resulting injury, if she does; (3) the burden of adequate precautions. Possibly it serves to bring this notion into relief to state it.in algebraic terms: if the probability be called P; the injury, and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P."39

 

4. LEGAL PRECEDENT

 

Under the theory that Judge Hand developed in Carroll, a party is found negligent and liable for the damages resulting from his actions if B<PL. "B," the burden of adequate precautions, is the accident avoidance cost. "P" is the probability the defendant's actions will result in an accident. "L" is the cost of that accident if it did occur. "PL" is the risk of the activity, the expected liability of the discounted accident cost.40   The negligence standard had been formalized into algebraic terms. If the expected harm exceeded the cost to take precaution, the defendant was obligated to take the precaution, and if they did not, would be held liable

 

Source - https://users.wfu.edu/palmitar/Law&Valuation/Papers/1999/Leggett-pinto.html

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 42 of 78

@mickstuder wrote:

Several More Leaders Of Major Countries - Put the Safety of their Citizens ahead of Corporate Profits

 

England - Ireland - Australia - Oman - Mexico - France

 

TRUMP STILL REFUSES TO PUT THE SAFETY OF AMERICANS BEFORE THE PROFITS OF CORPORATIONS

 

Source - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ethiopian-airlines-crash-britain-grounds-boeing-737-jet-model-n98...

 

 

 


PROFITS FOR COMPANIES ----------OR MAYBE CONVENIENCE OF PASSENGERS

 

I can't imagine that the temporary grounding of one version of one model of a company's fleet is anything to involve the Klepts or Plutos or Autos.

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 43 of 78

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

Trump is NOT responsible for everything that goes wrong.  By blaming him for everything, you are distracting from real issues.

One of my biggest problems with Trump is that he does not seem to listen to his subject matter experts, since he believes he knows more than they do.

It is up to the FAA to decide what to do about this, not Trump.

If Trump has overruled the FAA, or if the current FAA acting Director is not listening to their own experts, than that is a different story.  But, you simply can't blame Trump for everything bad.  Contrary to some beliefs it is actually impossible for the man to make an incorrect decision every single time, anymore than somebody can make the correct decision every time.


You Are Incorrect -

 

First - Trump Makes Everything About Himself

 

You Don't Get to Claim Credit for Records in the Stock Market - Unemployment - Etc - when those records have been on going since way before you took office - but if you insist then you also get the blame for everything

 

As Far as the FAA - the FAA has been Leaderless for over a year - No Administrator Confirmed by Congress

 

Again - It is Trump Fault because here is his philosophy

 

I’m in no hurry” to name permanent replacements, Trump told reporters Sunday before departing for Camp David. “I sort of like ‘acting.’ It gives me more flexibility, do you understand that? I like ‘acting.’”

 

In other words Trump does not want PERMANENT EXPERTS in critical positions to advise him - he wants - PLACEHOLDERS - that he can over rule or fire if they try to disagree with him by citing fact based information - as opposed to Trumps "gut" inspired decisions

 

Also, when you're setting records for US Presidents playing Golf and Watching Favorite TV Programs

 

The time you have to look at issues like - should I ground Boeing Planes that are crashing like the Leaders of 3 other Countries already have - your time is limited

 

 

 

 


Then your argument should be that Trump has eliminated the FAA.  Since there are still career people there, the question is has this been moved up the priority list or not.  Again, by your blaming Trump for absolutely everything, you are watering down legitimate issues about him.  If you are going to try to claim that EVERYTHING bad is Trump's fault, then you will be taken as a left wing Fox News that cannot be trusted.


No - My Argument Should Be & Is

 

We Don't Have a President in the USA

 

We have someone who is a Dictator & has accelerated US Kleptocracy

 

A Person in the Whitehouse who makes decisions not based on what's best for the United States

 

A Person in the Whitehouse who makes decisions not based on what's best for Americans

 

BUT

 

Whats best for the Trump Brand

 

He & his Family fly on Special Aircraft - Maintained under the Direction of the Secret Service  & Operated with Multiple Redundancys

 

Trump could care less about the Planes Middle Class Americans Fly on

 

8 Americans died Sunday in that Crash - Trump has still not even mentioned that subject

 

Trumps Golfing & Flying on the Best Airplane US Tax Payers $$$ can buy & maintain & with a Fighter Jet escort

 

 


Did Trump design or build the plane?  Has Trump overruled any expert, or put a non-expert into the head position who refuses to listen to the real experts?  Elwell worked for the FAA before Trump was elected.

All you are doing with this thread is being "petty", thus diluting valid arguments on why Trump is not the one to lead the Nation.  I would recommend concentrating on real issues instead of going off on a tangent which looks like exactly what it is.


The only - Dillution - in evidence in this Thread or in the Country for that matter has to do with the Reality ...........................

 

8 Americans died on this Plane & Trump is Mute

 

I am a American and being critical in this case is not Petty

 

The FAA has not had a Administrator since January 2018 - WHY - because Trump wants to call the shots himself & he's not interested in this subject

 

So No One in the US Government is interested or has yet taken this accident seriously or given the Safety of the Flying Public a Priority

 

WHY because Trumps Economic Policies Are Bogus and our Economy is Fragile

 

Trump does not want to Highlight this issue because it will effect the Markets

 

 

 


There is no question but that more Americans that you are ever so concerned about died in car crashes while driving Fords.

 

Any thoughts???


Yes I have thoughts - but of course you will never read them - thats not the reason you ask questions - but your Question illustrates why the Boeing Issue and Trumps lack of Concern for his Fellow Americans is so hideous. 

 

The US Government used to hold Corporations to the same Legal Standard as Citizens until Trump made Kleptocracy the preferred method of operation - like the Corrupt Pay to Play Scheme Trumps Running at Mar a Lago that I'll be covering in it's own thread

 

HERE ARE JUST A FEW OF FORDS - SAFETY VIOLATIONS - AND THE OLD US GOVERNMENTS RESPONSE

 

SAFETY. Ford's reputation as an automaker was seriously blemished in the 1970s, when its new compact Pinto turned out to have a fatal flaw: Its fuel tank was unshielded and located near the back bumper in the fragile car, meaning that rear-end collisions frequently resulted in horrific explosions. Evidence later emerged that Ford was aware of the vulnerability of the gas tank, but went ahead with production of the car. In one civil case a jury awarded $125 million in damages (reduced by the judge to $3.5 million), but in another Pinto case, company executives were found innocent of murder charges. (For more details, see chapter 30 of Russell Mokhiber’s 1988 book Corporate Crime and Violence.)

 

Ford was also embarrassed by reports that many of its cars with automatic transmissions produced during the 1970s had a tendency to slip from park into reverse. In 1981 federal regulators forced the company to send warning notices to purchasers of some 23 million vehicles about the problem. Ford may not have been happy about this, but it was a lot less onerous than the massive recall of the cars that had been urged by public interest groups.

 

In 1996 Ford gave in to public pressure and agreed to pay for replacing ignition switches on more than 8 million cars and trucks that were prone to short circuits that could cause fires. In 1998 State Farm, the largest auto insurer in the United States, sued Ford, charging that the company withheld information about the potential fire hazard from federal regulators and the public. State Farm, which sought to recover monies it paid out in claims relating to the faulty switches, also said that Ford’s 1996 recall did not cover enough vehicles. The insurer released nearly 200 pages of internal documents to back up its claim.

 

In 1999 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration hit Ford with a $425,000 fine in the matter. An investigation later revealed evidence that Ford knew about ignition defects, which also sometimes caused vehicles to stall out while making turns, but remained silent. A California judge then ordered the recall of an additional two million vehicles—the first time a U.S. court had ever taken such an action against automaker.

 

In August 2000 Bridgestone/Firestone announced a massive recall of tires, most of which had been installed on Ford sport-utility vehicles and light trucks. Ford alleged that the tire company had known of the defects for several years. Information later came out suggesting that Ford, as well as Bridgestone/Firestone, had known of the tire defects long before the recalls were announced.

 

A December 2000 investigation by the New York Times found that in the 1980s Ford had taken a number of design shortcuts that raised the risk of rollover accidents in what would become its wildly popular Explorer SUV.

 

Ford and Bridgestone/Firestone continued pointing fingers at one another. In May 2001 the tire maker said it would stop selling tires to Ford, accusing it of using the tire issue to divert attention from the safety of its SUVs. Later, the tire maker called on the U.S. Transportation Department to open a safety investigation of the Ford Explorer and its tendency to experience rollover crashes when a tire failed. In June 2001 the feud between the two companies was displayed as chief executives of the two companies attacked each other during a congressional hearing.

 

In 2013 Ford was fined $17.4 million by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration for taking too long to recall unsafe sport utility vehicles.

 

In 2014 federal regulators forced Ford to expand nationwide a recall of vehicles with airbags made by the Japanese supplier Takata.

 

FORGET LAWSUITS AGAINST BOEING

 

TRUMP WON'T EVEN ERROR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION FOR AMERICANS AND GROUND THESE PLANES UNTIL THE ISSUE IS IDENTIFIED AND CORRECTED

 

SEVERAL OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE PROTECTED THEIR CITIZENS BY DOING SO - TRUMP REFUSES

 

Source - https://www.corp-research.org/ford-motor

 

 

 

 


You mentioned various and sundry LAW SUITES and fining of Ford. But never MENTIONED the government removing ALL Fords from the roads ("grounding").


What has that got to do with Boeing?

 

nothing - it responds to your wild claims about why boeing should be shut down but not ford


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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 44 of 78

Several More Leaders Of Major Countries - Put the Safety of their Citizens ahead of Corporate Profits

 

England - Ireland - Australia - Oman - Mexico - France

 

TRUMP STILL REFUSES TO PUT THE SAFETY OF AMERICANS BEFORE THE PROFITS OF CORPORATIONS

 

Source - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ethiopian-airlines-crash-britain-grounds-boeing-737-jet-model-n98...

 

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 45 of 78

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

Trump is NOT responsible for everything that goes wrong.  By blaming him for everything, you are distracting from real issues.

One of my biggest problems with Trump is that he does not seem to listen to his subject matter experts, since he believes he knows more than they do.

It is up to the FAA to decide what to do about this, not Trump.

If Trump has overruled the FAA, or if the current FAA acting Director is not listening to their own experts, than that is a different story.  But, you simply can't blame Trump for everything bad.  Contrary to some beliefs it is actually impossible for the man to make an incorrect decision every single time, anymore than somebody can make the correct decision every time.


You Are Incorrect -

 

First - Trump Makes Everything About Himself

 

You Don't Get to Claim Credit for Records in the Stock Market - Unemployment - Etc - when those records have been on going since way before you took office - but if you insist then you also get the blame for everything

 

As Far as the FAA - the FAA has been Leaderless for over a year - No Administrator Confirmed by Congress

 

Again - It is Trump Fault because here is his philosophy

 

I’m in no hurry” to name permanent replacements, Trump told reporters Sunday before departing for Camp David. “I sort of like ‘acting.’ It gives me more flexibility, do you understand that? I like ‘acting.’”

 

In other words Trump does not want PERMANENT EXPERTS in critical positions to advise him - he wants - PLACEHOLDERS - that he can over rule or fire if they try to disagree with him by citing fact based information - as opposed to Trumps "gut" inspired decisions

 

Also, when you're setting records for US Presidents playing Golf and Watching Favorite TV Programs

 

The time you have to look at issues like - should I ground Boeing Planes that are crashing like the Leaders of 3 other Countries already have - your time is limited

 

 

 

 


Then your argument should be that Trump has eliminated the FAA.  Since there are still career people there, the question is has this been moved up the priority list or not.  Again, by your blaming Trump for absolutely everything, you are watering down legitimate issues about him.  If you are going to try to claim that EVERYTHING bad is Trump's fault, then you will be taken as a left wing Fox News that cannot be trusted.


No - My Argument Should Be & Is

 

We Don't Have a President in the USA

 

We have someone who is a Dictator & has accelerated US Kleptocracy

 

A Person in the Whitehouse who makes decisions not based on what's best for the United States

 

A Person in the Whitehouse who makes decisions not based on what's best for Americans

 

BUT

 

Whats best for the Trump Brand

 

He & his Family fly on Special Aircraft - Maintained under the Direction of the Secret Service  & Operated with Multiple Redundancys

 

Trump could care less about the Planes Middle Class Americans Fly on

 

8 Americans died Sunday in that Crash - Trump has still not even mentioned that subject

 

Trumps Golfing & Flying on the Best Airplane US Tax Payers $$$ can buy & maintain & with a Fighter Jet escort

 

 


Did Trump design or build the plane?  Has Trump overruled any expert, or put a non-expert into the head position who refuses to listen to the real experts?  Elwell worked for the FAA before Trump was elected.

All you are doing with this thread is being "petty", thus diluting valid arguments on why Trump is not the one to lead the Nation.  I would recommend concentrating on real issues instead of going off on a tangent which looks like exactly what it is.


The only - Dillution - in evidence in this Thread or in the Country for that matter has to do with the Reality ...........................

 

8 Americans died on this Plane & Trump is Mute

 

I am a American and being critical in this case is not Petty

 

The FAA has not had a Administrator since January 2018 - WHY - because Trump wants to call the shots himself & he's not interested in this subject

 

So No One in the US Government is interested or has yet taken this accident seriously or given the Safety of the Flying Public a Priority

 

WHY because Trumps Economic Policies Are Bogus and our Economy is Fragile

 

Trump does not want to Highlight this issue because it will effect the Markets

 

 

 


There is no question but that more Americans that you are ever so concerned about died in car crashes while driving Fords.

 

Any thoughts???


Yes I have thoughts - but of course you will never read them - thats not the reason you ask questions - but your Question illustrates why the Boeing Issue and Trumps lack of Concern for his Fellow Americans is so hideous. 

 

The US Government used to hold Corporations to the same Legal Standard as Citizens until Trump made Kleptocracy the preferred method of operation - like the Corrupt Pay to Play Scheme Trumps Running at Mar a Lago that I'll be covering in it's own thread

 

HERE ARE JUST A FEW OF FORDS - SAFETY VIOLATIONS - AND THE OLD US GOVERNMENTS RESPONSE

 

SAFETY. Ford's reputation as an automaker was seriously blemished in the 1970s, when its new compact Pinto turned out to have a fatal flaw: Its fuel tank was unshielded and located near the back bumper in the fragile car, meaning that rear-end collisions frequently resulted in horrific explosions. Evidence later emerged that Ford was aware of the vulnerability of the gas tank, but went ahead with production of the car. In one civil case a jury awarded $125 million in damages (reduced by the judge to $3.5 million), but in another Pinto case, company executives were found innocent of murder charges. (For more details, see chapter 30 of Russell Mokhiber’s 1988 book Corporate Crime and Violence.)

 

Ford was also embarrassed by reports that many of its cars with automatic transmissions produced during the 1970s had a tendency to slip from park into reverse. In 1981 federal regulators forced the company to send warning notices to purchasers of some 23 million vehicles about the problem. Ford may not have been happy about this, but it was a lot less onerous than the massive recall of the cars that had been urged by public interest groups.

 

In 1996 Ford gave in to public pressure and agreed to pay for replacing ignition switches on more than 8 million cars and trucks that were prone to short circuits that could cause fires. In 1998 State Farm, the largest auto insurer in the United States, sued Ford, charging that the company withheld information about the potential fire hazard from federal regulators and the public. State Farm, which sought to recover monies it paid out in claims relating to the faulty switches, also said that Ford’s 1996 recall did not cover enough vehicles. The insurer released nearly 200 pages of internal documents to back up its claim.

 

In 1999 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration hit Ford with a $425,000 fine in the matter. An investigation later revealed evidence that Ford knew about ignition defects, which also sometimes caused vehicles to stall out while making turns, but remained silent. A California judge then ordered the recall of an additional two million vehicles—the first time a U.S. court had ever taken such an action against automaker.

 

In August 2000 Bridgestone/Firestone announced a massive recall of tires, most of which had been installed on Ford sport-utility vehicles and light trucks. Ford alleged that the tire company had known of the defects for several years. Information later came out suggesting that Ford, as well as Bridgestone/Firestone, had known of the tire defects long before the recalls were announced.

 

A December 2000 investigation by the New York Times found that in the 1980s Ford had taken a number of design shortcuts that raised the risk of rollover accidents in what would become its wildly popular Explorer SUV.

 

Ford and Bridgestone/Firestone continued pointing fingers at one another. In May 2001 the tire maker said it would stop selling tires to Ford, accusing it of using the tire issue to divert attention from the safety of its SUVs. Later, the tire maker called on the U.S. Transportation Department to open a safety investigation of the Ford Explorer and its tendency to experience rollover crashes when a tire failed. In June 2001 the feud between the two companies was displayed as chief executives of the two companies attacked each other during a congressional hearing.

 

In 2013 Ford was fined $17.4 million by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration for taking too long to recall unsafe sport utility vehicles.

 

In 2014 federal regulators forced Ford to expand nationwide a recall of vehicles with airbags made by the Japanese supplier Takata.

 

FORGET LAWSUITS AGAINST BOEING

 

TRUMP WON'T EVEN ERROR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION FOR AMERICANS AND GROUND THESE PLANES UNTIL THE ISSUE IS IDENTIFIED AND CORRECTED

 

SEVERAL OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE PROTECTED THEIR CITIZENS BY DOING SO - TRUMP REFUSES

 

Source - https://www.corp-research.org/ford-motor

 

 

 

 


You mentioned various and sundry LAW SUITES and fining of Ford. But never MENTIONED the government removing ALL Fords from the roads ("grounding").


What has that got to do with Boeing?

 

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 46 of 78

@mickstuder wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

Trump is NOT responsible for everything that goes wrong.  By blaming him for everything, you are distracting from real issues.

One of my biggest problems with Trump is that he does not seem to listen to his subject matter experts, since he believes he knows more than they do.

It is up to the FAA to decide what to do about this, not Trump.

If Trump has overruled the FAA, or if the current FAA acting Director is not listening to their own experts, than that is a different story.  But, you simply can't blame Trump for everything bad.  Contrary to some beliefs it is actually impossible for the man to make an incorrect decision every single time, anymore than somebody can make the correct decision every time.


You Are Incorrect -

 

First - Trump Makes Everything About Himself

 

You Don't Get to Claim Credit for Records in the Stock Market - Unemployment - Etc - when those records have been on going since way before you took office - but if you insist then you also get the blame for everything

 

As Far as the FAA - the FAA has been Leaderless for over a year - No Administrator Confirmed by Congress

 

Again - It is Trump Fault because here is his philosophy

 

I’m in no hurry” to name permanent replacements, Trump told reporters Sunday before departing for Camp David. “I sort of like ‘acting.’ It gives me more flexibility, do you understand that? I like ‘acting.’”

 

In other words Trump does not want PERMANENT EXPERTS in critical positions to advise him - he wants - PLACEHOLDERS - that he can over rule or fire if they try to disagree with him by citing fact based information - as opposed to Trumps "gut" inspired decisions

 

Also, when you're setting records for US Presidents playing Golf and Watching Favorite TV Programs

 

The time you have to look at issues like - should I ground Boeing Planes that are crashing like the Leaders of 3 other Countries already have - your time is limited

 

 

 

 


Then your argument should be that Trump has eliminated the FAA.  Since there are still career people there, the question is has this been moved up the priority list or not.  Again, by your blaming Trump for absolutely everything, you are watering down legitimate issues about him.  If you are going to try to claim that EVERYTHING bad is Trump's fault, then you will be taken as a left wing Fox News that cannot be trusted.


No - My Argument Should Be & Is

 

We Don't Have a President in the USA

 

We have someone who is a Dictator & has accelerated US Kleptocracy

 

A Person in the Whitehouse who makes decisions not based on what's best for the United States

 

A Person in the Whitehouse who makes decisions not based on what's best for Americans

 

BUT

 

Whats best for the Trump Brand

 

He & his Family fly on Special Aircraft - Maintained under the Direction of the Secret Service  & Operated with Multiple Redundancys

 

Trump could care less about the Planes Middle Class Americans Fly on

 

8 Americans died Sunday in that Crash - Trump has still not even mentioned that subject

 

Trumps Golfing & Flying on the Best Airplane US Tax Payers $$$ can buy & maintain & with a Fighter Jet escort

 

 


Did Trump design or build the plane?  Has Trump overruled any expert, or put a non-expert into the head position who refuses to listen to the real experts?  Elwell worked for the FAA before Trump was elected.

All you are doing with this thread is being "petty", thus diluting valid arguments on why Trump is not the one to lead the Nation.  I would recommend concentrating on real issues instead of going off on a tangent which looks like exactly what it is.


The only - Dillution - in evidence in this Thread or in the Country for that matter has to do with the Reality ...........................

 

8 Americans died on this Plane & Trump is Mute

 

I am a American and being critical in this case is not Petty

 

The FAA has not had a Administrator since January 2018 - WHY - because Trump wants to call the shots himself & he's not interested in this subject

 

So No One in the US Government is interested or has yet taken this accident seriously or given the Safety of the Flying Public a Priority

 

WHY because Trumps Economic Policies Are Bogus and our Economy is Fragile

 

Trump does not want to Highlight this issue because it will effect the Markets

 

 

 


There is no question but that more Americans that you are ever so concerned about died in car crashes while driving Fords.

 

Any thoughts???


Yes I have thoughts - but of course you will never read them - thats not the reason you ask questions - but your Question illustrates why the Boeing Issue and Trumps lack of Concern for his Fellow Americans is so hideous. 

 

The US Government used to hold Corporations to the same Legal Standard as Citizens until Trump made Kleptocracy the preferred method of operation - like the Corrupt Pay to Play Scheme Trumps Running at Mar a Lago that I'll be covering in it's own thread

 

HERE ARE JUST A FEW OF FORDS - SAFETY VIOLATIONS - AND THE OLD US GOVERNMENTS RESPONSE

 

SAFETY. Ford's reputation as an automaker was seriously blemished in the 1970s, when its new compact Pinto turned out to have a fatal flaw: Its fuel tank was unshielded and located near the back bumper in the fragile car, meaning that rear-end collisions frequently resulted in horrific explosions. Evidence later emerged that Ford was aware of the vulnerability of the gas tank, but went ahead with production of the car. In one civil case a jury awarded $125 million in damages (reduced by the judge to $3.5 million), but in another Pinto case, company executives were found innocent of murder charges. (For more details, see chapter 30 of Russell Mokhiber’s 1988 book Corporate Crime and Violence.)

 

Ford was also embarrassed by reports that many of its cars with automatic transmissions produced during the 1970s had a tendency to slip from park into reverse. In 1981 federal regulators forced the company to send warning notices to purchasers of some 23 million vehicles about the problem. Ford may not have been happy about this, but it was a lot less onerous than the massive recall of the cars that had been urged by public interest groups.

 

In 1996 Ford gave in to public pressure and agreed to pay for replacing ignition switches on more than 8 million cars and trucks that were prone to short circuits that could cause fires. In 1998 State Farm, the largest auto insurer in the United States, sued Ford, charging that the company withheld information about the potential fire hazard from federal regulators and the public. State Farm, which sought to recover monies it paid out in claims relating to the faulty switches, also said that Ford’s 1996 recall did not cover enough vehicles. The insurer released nearly 200 pages of internal documents to back up its claim.

 

In 1999 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration hit Ford with a $425,000 fine in the matter. An investigation later revealed evidence that Ford knew about ignition defects, which also sometimes caused vehicles to stall out while making turns, but remained silent. A California judge then ordered the recall of an additional two million vehicles—the first time a U.S. court had ever taken such an action against automaker.

 

In August 2000 Bridgestone/Firestone announced a massive recall of tires, most of which had been installed on Ford sport-utility vehicles and light trucks. Ford alleged that the tire company had known of the defects for several years. Information later came out suggesting that Ford, as well as Bridgestone/Firestone, had known of the tire defects long before the recalls were announced.

 

A December 2000 investigation by the New York Times found that in the 1980s Ford had taken a number of design shortcuts that raised the risk of rollover accidents in what would become its wildly popular Explorer SUV.

 

Ford and Bridgestone/Firestone continued pointing fingers at one another. In May 2001 the tire maker said it would stop selling tires to Ford, accusing it of using the tire issue to divert attention from the safety of its SUVs. Later, the tire maker called on the U.S. Transportation Department to open a safety investigation of the Ford Explorer and its tendency to experience rollover crashes when a tire failed. In June 2001 the feud between the two companies was displayed as chief executives of the two companies attacked each other during a congressional hearing.

 

In 2013 Ford was fined $17.4 million by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration for taking too long to recall unsafe sport utility vehicles.

 

In 2014 federal regulators forced Ford to expand nationwide a recall of vehicles with airbags made by the Japanese supplier Takata.

 

FORGET LAWSUITS AGAINST BOEING

 

TRUMP WON'T EVEN ERROR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION FOR AMERICANS AND GROUND THESE PLANES UNTIL THE ISSUE IS IDENTIFIED AND CORRECTED

 

SEVERAL OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE PROTECTED THEIR CITIZENS BY DOING SO - TRUMP REFUSES

 

Source - https://www.corp-research.org/ford-motor

 

 

 

 


You mentioned various and sundry LAW SUITES and fining of Ford. But never MENTIONED the government removing ALL Fords from the roads ("grounding").

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 47 of 78

@rk9152 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

Trump is NOT responsible for everything that goes wrong.  By blaming him for everything, you are distracting from real issues.

One of my biggest problems with Trump is that he does not seem to listen to his subject matter experts, since he believes he knows more than they do.

It is up to the FAA to decide what to do about this, not Trump.

If Trump has overruled the FAA, or if the current FAA acting Director is not listening to their own experts, than that is a different story.  But, you simply can't blame Trump for everything bad.  Contrary to some beliefs it is actually impossible for the man to make an incorrect decision every single time, anymore than somebody can make the correct decision every time.


You Are Incorrect -

 

First - Trump Makes Everything About Himself

 

You Don't Get to Claim Credit for Records in the Stock Market - Unemployment - Etc - when those records have been on going since way before you took office - but if you insist then you also get the blame for everything

 

As Far as the FAA - the FAA has been Leaderless for over a year - No Administrator Confirmed by Congress

 

Again - It is Trump Fault because here is his philosophy

 

I’m in no hurry” to name permanent replacements, Trump told reporters Sunday before departing for Camp David. “I sort of like ‘acting.’ It gives me more flexibility, do you understand that? I like ‘acting.’”

 

In other words Trump does not want PERMANENT EXPERTS in critical positions to advise him - he wants - PLACEHOLDERS - that he can over rule or fire if they try to disagree with him by citing fact based information - as opposed to Trumps "gut" inspired decisions

 

Also, when you're setting records for US Presidents playing Golf and Watching Favorite TV Programs

 

The time you have to look at issues like - should I ground Boeing Planes that are crashing like the Leaders of 3 other Countries already have - your time is limited

 

 

 

 


Then your argument should be that Trump has eliminated the FAA.  Since there are still career people there, the question is has this been moved up the priority list or not.  Again, by your blaming Trump for absolutely everything, you are watering down legitimate issues about him.  If you are going to try to claim that EVERYTHING bad is Trump's fault, then you will be taken as a left wing Fox News that cannot be trusted.


No - My Argument Should Be & Is

 

We Don't Have a President in the USA

 

We have someone who is a Dictator & has accelerated US Kleptocracy

 

A Person in the Whitehouse who makes decisions not based on what's best for the United States

 

A Person in the Whitehouse who makes decisions not based on what's best for Americans

 

BUT

 

Whats best for the Trump Brand

 

He & his Family fly on Special Aircraft - Maintained under the Direction of the Secret Service  & Operated with Multiple Redundancys

 

Trump could care less about the Planes Middle Class Americans Fly on

 

8 Americans died Sunday in that Crash - Trump has still not even mentioned that subject

 

Trumps Golfing & Flying on the Best Airplane US Tax Payers $$$ can buy & maintain & with a Fighter Jet escort

 

 


Did Trump design or build the plane?  Has Trump overruled any expert, or put a non-expert into the head position who refuses to listen to the real experts?  Elwell worked for the FAA before Trump was elected.

All you are doing with this thread is being "petty", thus diluting valid arguments on why Trump is not the one to lead the Nation.  I would recommend concentrating on real issues instead of going off on a tangent which looks like exactly what it is.


The only - Dillution - in evidence in this Thread or in the Country for that matter has to do with the Reality ...........................

 

8 Americans died on this Plane & Trump is Mute

 

I am a American and being critical in this case is not Petty

 

The FAA has not had a Administrator since January 2018 - WHY - because Trump wants to call the shots himself & he's not interested in this subject

 

So No One in the US Government is interested or has yet taken this accident seriously or given the Safety of the Flying Public a Priority

 

WHY because Trumps Economic Policies Are Bogus and our Economy is Fragile

 

Trump does not want to Highlight this issue because it will effect the Markets

 

 

 


There is no question but that more Americans that you are ever so concerned about died in car crashes while driving Fords.

 

Any thoughts???


Yes I have thoughts - but of course you will never read them - thats not the reason you ask questions - but your Question illustrates why the Boeing Issue and Trumps lack of Concern for his Fellow Americans is so hideous. 

 

The US Government used to hold Corporations to the same Legal Standard as Citizens until Trump made Kleptocracy the preferred method of operation - like the Corrupt Pay to Play Scheme Trumps Running at Mar a Lago that I'll be covering in it's own thread

 

HERE ARE JUST A FEW OF FORDS - SAFETY VIOLATIONS - AND THE OLD US GOVERNMENTS RESPONSE

 

SAFETY. Ford's reputation as an automaker was seriously blemished in the 1970s, when its new compact Pinto turned out to have a fatal flaw: Its fuel tank was unshielded and located near the back bumper in the fragile car, meaning that rear-end collisions frequently resulted in horrific explosions. Evidence later emerged that Ford was aware of the vulnerability of the gas tank, but went ahead with production of the car. In one civil case a jury awarded $125 million in damages (reduced by the judge to $3.5 million), but in another Pinto case, company executives were found innocent of murder charges. (For more details, see chapter 30 of Russell Mokhiber’s 1988 book Corporate Crime and Violence.)

 

Ford was also embarrassed by reports that many of its cars with automatic transmissions produced during the 1970s had a tendency to slip from park into reverse. In 1981 federal regulators forced the company to send warning notices to purchasers of some 23 million vehicles about the problem. Ford may not have been happy about this, but it was a lot less onerous than the massive recall of the cars that had been urged by public interest groups.

 

In 1996 Ford gave in to public pressure and agreed to pay for replacing ignition switches on more than 8 million cars and trucks that were prone to short circuits that could cause fires. In 1998 State Farm, the largest auto insurer in the United States, sued Ford, charging that the company withheld information about the potential fire hazard from federal regulators and the public. State Farm, which sought to recover monies it paid out in claims relating to the faulty switches, also said that Ford’s 1996 recall did not cover enough vehicles. The insurer released nearly 200 pages of internal documents to back up its claim.

 

In 1999 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration hit Ford with a $425,000 fine in the matter. An investigation later revealed evidence that Ford knew about ignition defects, which also sometimes caused vehicles to stall out while making turns, but remained silent. A California judge then ordered the recall of an additional two million vehicles—the first time a U.S. court had ever taken such an action against automaker.

 

In August 2000 Bridgestone/Firestone announced a massive recall of tires, most of which had been installed on Ford sport-utility vehicles and light trucks. Ford alleged that the tire company had known of the defects for several years. Information later came out suggesting that Ford, as well as Bridgestone/Firestone, had known of the tire defects long before the recalls were announced.

 

A December 2000 investigation by the New York Times found that in the 1980s Ford had taken a number of design shortcuts that raised the risk of rollover accidents in what would become its wildly popular Explorer SUV.

 

Ford and Bridgestone/Firestone continued pointing fingers at one another. In May 2001 the tire maker said it would stop selling tires to Ford, accusing it of using the tire issue to divert attention from the safety of its SUVs. Later, the tire maker called on the U.S. Transportation Department to open a safety investigation of the Ford Explorer and its tendency to experience rollover crashes when a tire failed. In June 2001 the feud between the two companies was displayed as chief executives of the two companies attacked each other during a congressional hearing.

 

In 2013 Ford was fined $17.4 million by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration for taking too long to recall unsafe sport utility vehicles.

 

In 2014 federal regulators forced Ford to expand nationwide a recall of vehicles with airbags made by the Japanese supplier Takata.

 

FORGET LAWSUITS AGAINST BOEING

 

TRUMP WON'T EVEN ERROR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION FOR AMERICANS AND GROUND THESE PLANES UNTIL THE ISSUE IS IDENTIFIED AND CORRECTED

 

SEVERAL OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE PROTECTED THEIR CITIZENS BY DOING SO - TRUMP REFUSES

 

Source - https://www.corp-research.org/ford-motor

 

 

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 48 of 78

Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

The answer to this question is simple:

 

Trump hasn't Grounded Boeing Aircraft for the same reason the National Rifle Association still pushes high-powered automatic weapons for American civilian use......

 

"Thar's Big Money Being Made!"   Period!

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 49 of 78

@mickstuder wrote:

CNN's Richard Quest: This is a 'full-blown crisis' for Boeing

 

Boeing's bestselling passenger jet is facing increased scrutiny after being involved in two deadly crashes in less than five months, a situation that threatens to tarnish the US plane maker's reputation for safety.

 

Trump is MUTE -

 

TRUMP KLEPTOCRACY IN CHARGE OF US SAFETY POLICY 

 

Video Here - https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/2019/03/11/boeing-737-ethiopia-crash-crisis-richard-quest-sot-ne...

 

 


A full blown crisis for Boing - what has that to do with Klepts and the President??  

 

Try dealing with the logic of that instead of getting off on colors, caps, and font sizes

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Re: Y Hasn't Trump Grounded Boeing Aircraft?

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Message 50 of 78

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

Trump is NOT responsible for everything that goes wrong.  By blaming him for everything, you are distracting from real issues.

One of my biggest problems with Trump is that he does not seem to listen to his subject matter experts, since he believes he knows more than they do.

It is up to the FAA to decide what to do about this, not Trump.

If Trump has overruled the FAA, or if the current FAA acting Director is not listening to their own experts, than that is a different story.  But, you simply can't blame Trump for everything bad.  Contrary to some beliefs it is actually impossible for the man to make an incorrect decision every single time, anymore than somebody can make the correct decision every time.


You Are Incorrect -

 

First - Trump Makes Everything About Himself

 

You Don't Get to Claim Credit for Records in the Stock Market - Unemployment - Etc - when those records have been on going since way before you took office - but if you insist then you also get the blame for everything

 

As Far as the FAA - the FAA has been Leaderless for over a year - No Administrator Confirmed by Congress

 

Again - It is Trump Fault because here is his philosophy

 

I’m in no hurry” to name permanent replacements, Trump told reporters Sunday before departing for Camp David. “I sort of like ‘acting.’ It gives me more flexibility, do you understand that? I like ‘acting.’”

 

In other words Trump does not want PERMANENT EXPERTS in critical positions to advise him - he wants - PLACEHOLDERS - that he can over rule or fire if they try to disagree with him by citing fact based information - as opposed to Trumps "gut" inspired decisions

 

Also, when you're setting records for US Presidents playing Golf and Watching Favorite TV Programs

 

The time you have to look at issues like - should I ground Boeing Planes that are crashing like the Leaders of 3 other Countries already have - your time is limited

 

 

 

 


Then your argument should be that Trump has eliminated the FAA.  Since there are still career people there, the question is has this been moved up the priority list or not.  Again, by your blaming Trump for absolutely everything, you are watering down legitimate issues about him.  If you are going to try to claim that EVERYTHING bad is Trump's fault, then you will be taken as a left wing Fox News that cannot be trusted.


No - My Argument Should Be & Is

 

We Don't Have a President in the USA

 

We have someone who is a Dictator & has accelerated US Kleptocracy

 

A Person in the Whitehouse who makes decisions not based on what's best for the United States

 

A Person in the Whitehouse who makes decisions not based on what's best for Americans

 

BUT

 

Whats best for the Trump Brand

 

He & his Family fly on Special Aircraft - Maintained under the Direction of the Secret Service  & Operated with Multiple Redundancys

 

Trump could care less about the Planes Middle Class Americans Fly on

 

8 Americans died Sunday in that Crash - Trump has still not even mentioned that subject

 

Trumps Golfing & Flying on the Best Airplane US Tax Payers $$$ can buy & maintain & with a Fighter Jet escort

 

 


Did Trump design or build the plane?  Has Trump overruled any expert, or put a non-expert into the head position who refuses to listen to the real experts?  Elwell worked for the FAA before Trump was elected.

All you are doing with this thread is being "petty", thus diluting valid arguments on why Trump is not the one to lead the Nation.  I would recommend concentrating on real issues instead of going off on a tangent which looks like exactly what it is.


The only - Dillution - in evidence in this Thread or in the Country for that matter has to do with the Reality ...........................

 

8 Americans died on this Plane & Trump is Mute

 

I am a American and being critical in this case is not Petty

 

The FAA has not had a Administrator since January 2018 - WHY - because Trump wants to call the shots himself & he's not interested in this subject

 

So No One in the US Government is interested or has yet taken this accident seriously or given the Safety of the Flying Public a Priority

 

WHY because Trumps Economic Policies Are Bogus and our Economy is Fragile

 

Trump does not want to Highlight this issue because it will effect the Markets

 

 

 


There is no question but that more Americans that you are ever so concerned about died in car crashes while driving Fords.

 

Any thoughts???

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