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Re: Why do we always elect the wrong people?

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@jims730656 wrote:

@john258 wrote:

@jims730656 wrote:

@john258 wrote:

@jims730656 wrote:

In a republic such as ours, the country moves right or left because the PEOPLE want it to go that way.  The key is citizen involvement, or at least citizen AWARENESS.  Sadly, and I'm sure you'll agree,  the majority has ignored their own responsibility and allowed this corrupt government to run ITSELF!

We have no one but ourselves to blame for the situation we're in.  We just pointlessly pick a side and hope like hell they will win and fix this country all by themselves with us having to do nothing to earn a good and prosperous country.

 

But the problem is that both sides of this single coin DO win and regardless of which party is in charge (temporarily) things never get better because their empty promises were all lies, yet we keep voting for the same parties over and over.

 

And as I said originally, we do NOT have a "two-party system".  It only LOOKS like that because we have had it drilled into our heads for entire generations (even from our own teachers in school) that we not only have a two-party system, Democrats and Republicans are the only two parties that are allowed to BE those parties.

However, nowhere in the Constitution is the very concept of parties even mentioned, and no law in this country specifies that we have such a system.

 

That completely on us, not the politicians.  And I agree we should bring back the old 'Civics' classes, but at this point I doubt there are enough people, knowledgeable enough of the system to TEACH a Civics class.

 

We have over the decades allowed ourselves to be led by the nose by corrupt and incompetent politicians who run things THEIR way, and not with any regard for the people who put them in office,.  That's not how this system was designed.

This is why the so-called 'left' and 'right' politicians do little to nothing for the people.  And that will never change until the liberal and conservative citizens come to some common agreement and stop being ruled by fear of an imaginary "other side" and get RID of these two entrenched parties who control much more than most imagine.

They run everything, except our votes, and even THAT could be taken away by this government under the false guise of "national security".

 

And that could be happening even as we speak.  Considering how the government is trying to convince the people that Russia is controlling our elections (they are not) the day could come when they "temporarily" suspend our elections "for our own good".and we will accept that because we have been made to fear a government-created boogyman and for some insane reason thing our politians will 'protect' us.

And before you scoff at that possibility, look at historical examples of that having happened elsewhere.  And if it happens to other countries, why can't it happen HERE?

 

Again, those who slap a D or R in front of their names are NOT the only people with the intelligence and wisom to make this country work.  But that will never happen intil the PEOPLE do what they are supposed to do.  WE are the leaders and the politicians are supposed to follow OUR dictates.


You did not answer anything I said about the far right, but went into what you said before just using different words. You were wrong the first time and you are wrong the second time. We are in this mess due to the far right coming to power, and the mess will not end until they are out of power just as has been proven all over the world. If you think Russia was not a factor in the last election you  really prove how far off you are in your thinking. You want to end the mess well here is the first step. Do not vote for any one with an R backing. Other steps can follow once the far right is out of power.


You're right.  I didn't 'answer' you because there was no question TO answer, and I didn't address what you said about the "far right" because I was talking about BOTH parties that are .leading the country down the tubes.

If you notice, almost ALL of our problems didn't start this past January.   Most of the things and proceses harming this country have been slowly growing for 50 YEARS or more, during Democratic and Republican administrations and D and R majorities in Congress.

 

And at NO time has the country turned around.  It just got slowly and progressively worse with the partisans on BOTH sides blaming the other for all our problems (such as you are doing here).  The Democrats may have SLOWED our degeneration a little, but they didn't change the downward slide of the country.

I take it by your words that you are a Democrat.  That's your business and I'm not telling you who to follow.  But you should be honest and admit that your Democratic Party is hardly blameless in all that's gone  on in the last 50 years.  (And no, I'm got going to list all of the many failures of the Democrats OR  Republicans)

 

You can dislike what I said.  That's fine.  We're all just talking here, but I'm not going to pile on the Republicans just because you support the opposing side, nor am I going to trash the Democrats if a Republican posts on this thread.  I want them BOTH out of our government and our lives because BOTH parties have had their chance, many times, to make things right instead of making things worse.  And both sides have failed, so why do you want to keep them around?

 

We have other choices.  We just don't want to make that decision so the electorate, as a whole and on both sides are to blame for the sorry condition of this country.  The partisans on the left and right elected these people over the years, so they should own what's going on here.


When you were trying to address this subject by using both parties is like trying to call someone in a wind storm. You can not do it, and that makes you part of the problem. I told you this problem started many years ago and outlined the far rights record every where it has tried to governed. It first struck this country when we were founded. Our founders got rid of the far right (UK) then created this country which solved the problem. Well we need to do the same thing now. Get rid of the far right, then solve the problem. The problem can not be solved till we do that, just like it has been done all over the world. That is the proven path. You have no idea what I am. I can tell you that I have been a member of both parties. By your tone it is apparent you are a Reb., and by your posts one that is far right. Could you be a Trump supporter? Ok if failures scare you  list all the good things the far right has done. When you want both parties out of government you tell us you want no government, and that leads to dictatorship which is the far right so you give your self away. No it is people like you who own what is happening today as you run away from reality, and that shows you are a far right person as that is what they do. They let their leaders call the shots and follow along no matter how much they are hurt by what their leaders do. It is the far right who caused our current problem, and they will end when the far right is removed from power. Sorry but they are the facts.


You said: "When you want both parties out of government you tell us you want no government, and that leads to dictatorship which is the far right so you give your self away."

 

I give nothing away.  If you cannot understand the point they best thing to do is ask the poster what he MEANT without making up a response you THINK addresses the point.

 

I did NOT say or imply I ever wanted NO government.  Kindly show me where I did (or ignore it and move on like most partisans do).  What I DO want is a country closer to what the Founding Fathers designed it to be.  And if you want to read up on the subject, you will see that many of the Founders didn't WANT political parties in the first place.  Here are just two examples:

 

"

John Adams said:

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.

George Washington agreed, saying in his farewell presidential speech:

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty

Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind, (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight,) the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.

It serves always to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another." {their words, not mine]

 

And you won't find ANY reference to parties in the Constitution (the 'owners manual' for this country's government).  Also, there is NO law in the United States that specifies a two-party system OR that the Democrats and Republicans are the only two parties ALLOWED to be those parties in the system.

 

Your kind of thinking conflates the parties with the actual government.  These are two completely different things.  Plus, although I would personally prefer the government to be completely run by independent politicians, if the majority wants parties, fine.  But just not THESE parties.

 

You seems to ignore how the country has been in steady decline and that the Rs and Ds are the ONLY two entities that have been in complete control for over 100 years and the nation has never reversed its course in more than 50+- years.

Politicians in both parties say they will 'fix' everything if you just vote for them, but they never do (and you know that) and they rely only on your fear of the 'other' side to keep them in office.

Stop listening to the speeches of these people and spend some time researching what they DO when the curtain is closed and you'll learn about what I'm talking about instead of misinterpreting my comments to suit your own argument.  But right now, this country is dangerously divided by people with Stockholm Syndrome, and until they wake up and see what is, and has been going on right under their noses I don't see much of a future for this country.

 

Reply if you want, but I said what I came to say and  I'm done with this thread and won't see it.

 

[edit to add] Just to clarify, I don't want anyone to assume I'm right or wrong.  I don't want people to take me at my word, but to go out and do the research themselves and decide, based on FACTS (and wioth a clear eye whether I'm right or wrong.  This isn't Facebook and I'm not in it for 'likles' or 'followers' nor am I doing this just to argue about it.  Just find out on your own what the truth is and ignore the speeches.

That's all I ask.  See you around.

 


i get it. Im left of center..but i get it.

 

So it begins.
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Re: Why do we always elect the wrong people?

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Message 2 of 21

@jims730656 wrote:

@john258 wrote:


I understand the point, and that is why I made the statement. This country is based on a 2 party system which neither you nor I created. When that 2 party system ends you have no government since everything revolves around that. If you want to change it you do not do it by election, you change the whole approach to govt. That is something you do not understand. The founders created a government based on 2 parties no matter what they might say at times and that is a fact  neither you nor I can change that. When one understands our government they understand that fact. When the Wig Party went under they were replaced by the Reb. Party. We had 2 before and 2 after. Yes there have always been a few small parties who up to date only helped keep the major parties in the center. You do not need a 2 party system to be spelled out for a govt. to be set up for a 2 party system and that is something you do not understand, and that is something far right do understand. The far right could not gain power until they took over one party (Reb.). It took them 8 years as they started out as the Tea Party section of the Reb. party, but they were run by a few behind the scene's leaders who were far right Reb. They got control in the 2016 using Trump who for his entire life was a dictator want a be, and sleaze by 100%. The leaders issue the orders and the followers obey with out questioning as we all see now. By what you write you are part of that group as you understand none of this. I am sure you are done with this thread as you have been called out and exposed as a member of the far right. Anyone who follows what you ask in your last para. will find that you are 100% wrong. I notice you can not even provide any good a far right Govt has done for the people it has governed.


I WAS done, but I had to reply this one last time.  Then I'm done, so if you, like a typical troll want to reply and think my lack of response means you "won" (and it's not a contest anyway), knock yourself out.

 

But the country was NOT founded on a two-party system and I am not advocating for no government at all, as you seem to think there are only two choices.

You apparently didn't read where I said that I would personally prefer an all-independent government, but it's fine if the majority want a two-party system.  Just not the two we have now.  Do I have to hold your hand and SHOW you where I said that?  It's right in this very thread. 

Everyone in Congress has (or should have) the ability to judge a bill to be good or bad and vote accordingly, and you don't need a political party for that.  In fact, the very existence of a party "whip" defeats their ability to be independent.

And even if they had a purpose way back then, with instant communication and other ways to access information, they are really not necessary anymore.

 

"The founders created a government based on 2 parties no matter what they might say at times and that is a fact"

Wrong again.  So now you are an authority on what the brilliant men who created the country wanted, despite them saying the exact OPPOSITE!?

 

But I can safely say what they DID want, and that's a participatory government and an electorate involved and knowledgeable about who they vote for instead of voting for people they know almost nothing about other than what party they are in.  But if the Founders were here today, out of sheer embarrasment they would disavow having anything to do with this country.  We as a society have utterly failed them and their noble intentions.

Political parties came about AFTER the country was founded.  It didn't take too long, but the founders never intended that, else they would have SAID so (they did a lot of writing back then, and we have access to much of it)

 

" I am sure you are done with this thread as you have been called out and exposed as a member of the far right."

 

Wrong again, Nostradamus.  I'm now, and have been for decades actually more of a centrist Independent (but I never said that before so you just decided to label me in a way you think will validate your argument).  Why resort to lies when you don't read, or understand what I said in the first place?

 

As for your last spurious argument:

" I notice you can not even provide any good a far right Govt has done for the people it has governed."

 

I didn't provide a defense or rationale for a far-right government because I don't WANT one in this country, and I never said I did (go ahead, find where I said or even implied that).  But you can't, so please stop ASSUMING my intent.

 

I have no problem with you disagreeing with me (in fact, I usually WELCOME it), and I enjoy a good, solid argument.  But misrepresenting who or what I am or what I know or don't know is  not worth continuing.

 

But I see this thread is well-stocked with hard line Democrats so I understand why you don't pay much attention to what I actually said.  Now THIS will be my last post, so if replying with  more false assuimptions make you feel better, go for it.  And then you can sit back and wonder why the country is falling apart, and feel secure in knowing it's all somebody elses fault.

 


Gee I am so surprised that you replied, but when one does not understand a subject they keep trying. That is a far right trait. Well lets go for another reply.

Your first sentence sums it all up. The fact is you are for no government, and the country was set up for a 2 party system and has always had one. Study a little history. You think that everything has to be written down somewhere, and what ever the founders said is always true. Well here is another fact for you. Actions speak louder than words, and the actions of the founders in the way they created the government made it a 2 party system. They could have gone a lot of different ways but choose 2 party. You can ask them why. Now I use your actions as you post to know you want no government and are a far right. You did not say if you are a Trump supporter. I asked you that a few times.

Everyone in Congress is supposed to do what you said and until a few years ago did that, and things got done. When the far right started to come to power that ended. First they was the tea party, then they took over the Reb. Party and that ended. Now you have to get the far right out of power before anything will get better, and that means you never vote for a Reb. until they are all gone and the party is reinvented.

Yes they did want voters to know what they were doing. The founders only let male property owners vote to arrive at that. As schools became part of what everyone did that changed, and today everyone should be able to vote. Sadly the people who make up the far right are some what like the non male property owners of the founders time. Yes they have been to school but they lack the ability to think for themselves and we now call them far right Reb. They follow what they are told just like you have been doing in our back and forth.

No you are not a centrist and way far from an independent. You are far right and try and present yourself as what you say. Well people who understand our government see right though that just like they see through all the other far right members posting. By the way the leaders do not post, they just give the orders, and ideas sometimes using BOT farms like Russia has.

Well I asked you for any good a far right govt. has ever done and you now say you can not, but you do not want one. Well tell us what bad things they have done? No this thread does have some thinking people who know their subject, and easily handle the far right when they post there nonsense. The country is falling apart because the far right took over, and they are supported by people like you.

Looking forwarded to your next post.

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Re: Why do we always elect the wrong people?

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@john258 wrote:


I understand the point, and that is why I made the statement. This country is based on a 2 party system which neither you nor I created. When that 2 party system ends you have no government since everything revolves around that. If you want to change it you do not do it by election, you change the whole approach to govt. That is something you do not understand. The founders created a government based on 2 parties no matter what they might say at times and that is a fact  neither you nor I can change that. When one understands our government they understand that fact. When the Wig Party went under they were replaced by the Reb. Party. We had 2 before and 2 after. Yes there have always been a few small parties who up to date only helped keep the major parties in the center. You do not need a 2 party system to be spelled out for a govt. to be set up for a 2 party system and that is something you do not understand, and that is something far right do understand. The far right could not gain power until they took over one party (Reb.). It took them 8 years as they started out as the Tea Party section of the Reb. party, but they were run by a few behind the scene's leaders who were far right Reb. They got control in the 2016 using Trump who for his entire life was a dictator want a be, and sleaze by 100%. The leaders issue the orders and the followers obey with out questioning as we all see now. By what you write you are part of that group as you understand none of this. I am sure you are done with this thread as you have been called out and exposed as a member of the far right. Anyone who follows what you ask in your last para. will find that you are 100% wrong. I notice you can not even provide any good a far right Govt has done for the people it has governed.


I WAS done, but I had to reply this one last time.  Then I'm done, so if you, like a typical troll want to reply and think my lack of response means you "won" (and it's not a contest anyway), knock yourself out.

 

But the country was NOT founded on a two-party system and I am not advocating for no government at all, as you seem to think there are only two choices.

You apparently didn't read where I said that I would personally prefer an all-independent government, but it's fine if the majority want a two-party system.  Just not the two we have now.  Do I have to hold your hand and SHOW you where I said that?  It's right in this very thread. 

Everyone in Congress has (or should have) the ability to judge a bill to be good or bad and vote accordingly, and you don't need a political party for that.  In fact, the very existence of a party "whip" defeats their ability to be independent.

And even if they had a purpose way back then, with instant communication and other ways to access information, they are really not necessary anymore.

 

"The founders created a government based on 2 parties no matter what they might say at times and that is a fact"

Wrong again.  So now you are an authority on what the brilliant men who created the country wanted, despite them saying the exact OPPOSITE!?

 

But I can safely say what they DID want, and that's a participatory government and an electorate involved and knowledgeable about who they vote for instead of voting for people they know almost nothing about other than what party they are in.  But if the Founders were here today, out of sheer embarrasment they would disavow having anything to do with this country.  We as a society have utterly failed them and their noble intentions.

Political parties came about AFTER the country was founded.  It didn't take too long, but the founders never intended that, else they would have SAID so (they did a lot of writing back then, and we have access to much of it)

 

" I am sure you are done with this thread as you have been called out and exposed as a member of the far right."

 

Wrong again, Nostradamus.  I'm now, and have been for decades actually more of a centrist Independent (but I never said that before so you just decided to label me in a way you think will validate your argument).  Why resort to lies when you don't read, or understand what I said in the first place?

 

As for your last spurious argument:

" I notice you can not even provide any good a far right Govt has done for the people it has governed."

 

I didn't provide a defense or rationale for a far-right government because I don't WANT one in this country, and I never said I did (go ahead, find where I said or even implied that).  But you can't, so please stop ASSUMING my intent.

 

I have no problem with you disagreeing with me (in fact, I usually WELCOME it), and I enjoy a good, solid argument.  But misrepresenting who or what I am or what I know or don't know is  not worth continuing.

 

But I see this thread is well-stocked with hard line Democrats so I understand why you don't pay much attention to what I actually said.  Now THIS will be my last post, so if replying with  more false assuimptions make you feel better, go for it.  And then you can sit back and wonder why the country is falling apart, and feel secure in knowing it's all somebody elses fault.

 

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Re: Why do we always elect the wrong people?

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The patterns that I see repeated are as follows: 

1. Uninformed electorate—this often leads to less than qualified reps.  in office

 

2.  Gullibility—by the electorate who can’t or won’t differentiate between what can be accomplished and blowing smoke ( trump supporters are a prime example)

 

3. Gridlock in Senate and Congress as reps. jostle to uphold party line, seemingly something that very often people no longer want. (An example would  be dissolving the ACA)

  True, often times people aren’t happy with their elected officials—an informed and educated electorate is key.  This country has elected fools in the past on all levels of politics, but trump is a STARK reminder of what a danger an uninformed electorate can mean for any country.

 

Gee, I miss having a real president!

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Re: Why do we always elect the wrong people?

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Message 5 of 21

@jims730656 wrote:

@john258 wrote:

@jims730656 wrote:

@john258 wrote:

@jims730656 wrote:

In a republic such as ours, the country moves right or left because the PEOPLE want it to go that way.  The key is citizen involvement, or at least citizen AWARENESS.  Sadly, and I'm sure you'll agree,  the majority has ignored their own responsibility and allowed this corrupt government to run ITSELF!

We have no one but ourselves to blame for the situation we're in.  We just pointlessly pick a side and hope like hell they will win and fix this country all by themselves with us having to do nothing to earn a good and prosperous country.

 

But the problem is that both sides of this single coin DO win and regardless of which party is in charge (temporarily) things never get better because their empty promises were all lies, yet we keep voting for the same parties over and over.

 

And as I said originally, we do NOT have a "two-party system".  It only LOOKS like that because we have had it drilled into our heads for entire generations (even from our own teachers in school) that we not only have a two-party system, Democrats and Republicans are the only two parties that are allowed to BE those parties.

However, nowhere in the Constitution is the very concept of parties even mentioned, and no law in this country specifies that we have such a system.

 

That completely on us, not the politicians.  And I agree we should bring back the old 'Civics' classes, but at this point I doubt there are enough people, knowledgeable enough of the system to TEACH a Civics class.

 

We have over the decades allowed ourselves to be led by the nose by corrupt and incompetent politicians who run things THEIR way, and not with any regard for the people who put them in office,.  That's not how this system was designed.

This is why the so-called 'left' and 'right' politicians do little to nothing for the people.  And that will never change until the liberal and conservative citizens come to some common agreement and stop being ruled by fear of an imaginary "other side" and get RID of these two entrenched parties who control much more than most imagine.

They run everything, except our votes, and even THAT could be taken away by this government under the false guise of "national security".

 

And that could be happening even as we speak.  Considering how the government is trying to convince the people that Russia is controlling our elections (they are not) the day could come when they "temporarily" suspend our elections "for our own good".and we will accept that because we have been made to fear a government-created boogyman and for some insane reason thing our politians will 'protect' us.

And before you scoff at that possibility, look at historical examples of that having happened elsewhere.  And if it happens to other countries, why can't it happen HERE?

 

Again, those who slap a D or R in front of their names are NOT the only people with the intelligence and wisom to make this country work.  But that will never happen intil the PEOPLE do what they are supposed to do.  WE are the leaders and the politicians are supposed to follow OUR dictates.


You did not answer anything I said about the far right, but went into what you said before just using different words. You were wrong the first time and you are wrong the second time. We are in this mess due to the far right coming to power, and the mess will not end until they are out of power just as has been proven all over the world. If you think Russia was not a factor in the last election you  really prove how far off you are in your thinking. You want to end the mess well here is the first step. Do not vote for any one with an R backing. Other steps can follow once the far right is out of power.


You're right.  I didn't 'answer' you because there was no question TO answer, and I didn't address what you said about the "far right" because I was talking about BOTH parties that are .leading the country down the tubes.

If you notice, almost ALL of our problems didn't start this past January.   Most of the things and proceses harming this country have been slowly growing for 50 YEARS or more, during Democratic and Republican administrations and D and R majorities in Congress.

 

And at NO time has the country turned around.  It just got slowly and progressively worse with the partisans on BOTH sides blaming the other for all our problems (such as you are doing here).  The Democrats may have SLOWED our degeneration a little, but they didn't change the downward slide of the country.

I take it by your words that you are a Democrat.  That's your business and I'm not telling you who to follow.  But you should be honest and admit that your Democratic Party is hardly blameless in all that's gone  on in the last 50 years.  (And no, I'm got going to list all of the many failures of the Democrats OR  Republicans)

 

You can dislike what I said.  That's fine.  We're all just talking here, but I'm not going to pile on the Republicans just because you support the opposing side, nor am I going to trash the Democrats if a Republican posts on this thread.  I want them BOTH out of our government and our lives because BOTH parties have had their chance, many times, to make things right instead of making things worse.  And both sides have failed, so why do you want to keep them around?

 

We have other choices.  We just don't want to make that decision so the electorate, as a whole and on both sides are to blame for the sorry condition of this country.  The partisans on the left and right elected these people over the years, so they should own what's going on here.


When you were trying to address this subject by using both parties is like trying to call someone in a wind storm. You can not do it, and that makes you part of the problem. I told you this problem started many years ago and outlined the far rights record every where it has tried to governed. It first struck this country when we were founded. Our founders got rid of the far right (UK) then created this country which solved the problem. Well we need to do the same thing now. Get rid of the far right, then solve the problem. The problem can not be solved till we do that, just like it has been done all over the world. That is the proven path. You have no idea what I am. I can tell you that I have been a member of both parties. By your tone it is apparent you are a Reb., and by your posts one that is far right. Could you be a Trump supporter? Ok if failures scare you  list all the good things the far right has done. When you want both parties out of government you tell us you want no government, and that leads to dictatorship which is the far right so you give your self away. No it is people like you who own what is happening today as you run away from reality, and that shows you are a far right person as that is what they do. They let their leaders call the shots and follow along no matter how much they are hurt by what their leaders do. It is the far right who caused our current problem, and they will end when the far right is removed from power. Sorry but they are the facts.


You said: "When you want both parties out of government you tell us you want no government, and that leads to dictatorship which is the far right so you give your self away."

 

I give nothing away.  If you cannot understand the point they best thing to do is ask the poster what he MEANT without making up a response you THINK addresses the point.

 

I did NOT say or imply I ever wanted NO government.  Kindly show me where I did (or ignore it and move on like most partisans do).  What I DO want is a country closer to what the Founding Fathers designed it to be.  And if you want to read up on the subject, you will see that many of the Founders didn't WANT political parties in the first place.  Here are just two examples:

 

"

John Adams said:

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.

George Washington agreed, saying in his farewell presidential speech:

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty

Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind, (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight,) the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.

It serves always to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another." {their words, not mine]

 

And you won't find ANY reference to parties in the Constitution (the 'owners manual' for this country's government).  Also, there is NO law in the United States that specifies a two-party system OR that the Democrats and Republicans are the only two parties ALLOWED to be those parties in the system.

 

Your kind of thinking conflates the parties with the actual government.  These are two completely different things.  Plus, although I would personally prefer the government to be completely run by independent politicians, if the majority wants parties, fine.  But just not THESE parties.

 

You seems to ignore how the country has been in steady decline and that the Rs and Ds are the ONLY two entities that have been in complete control for over 100 years and the nation has never reversed its course in more than 50+- years.

Politicians in both parties say they will 'fix' everything if you just vote for them, but they never do (and you know that) and they rely only on your fear of the 'other' side to keep them in office.

Stop listening to the speeches of these people and spend some time researching what they DO when the curtain is closed and you'll learn about what I'm talking about instead of misinterpreting my comments to suit your own argument.  But right now, this country is dangerously divided by people with Stockholm Syndrome, and until they wake up and see what is, and has been going on right under their noses I don't see much of a future for this country.

 

Reply if you want, but I said what I came to say and  I'm done with this thread and won't see it.

 

[edit to add] Just to clarify, I don't want anyone to assume I'm right or wrong.  I don't want people to take me at my word, but to go out and do the research themselves and decide, based on FACTS (and wioth a clear eye whether I'm right or wrong.  This isn't Facebook and I'm not in it for 'likles' or 'followers' nor am I doing this just to argue about it.  Just find out on your own what the truth is and ignore the speeches.

That's all I ask.  See you around.

 


I understand the point, and that is why I made the statement. This country is based on a 2 party system which neither you nor I created. When that 2 party system ends you have no government since everything revolves around that. If you want to change it you do not do it by election, you change the whole approach to govt. That is something you do not understand. The founders created a government based on 2 parties no matter what they might say at times and that is a fact  neither you nor I can change that. When one understands our government they understand that fact. When the Wig Party went under they were replaced by the Reb. Party. We had 2 before and 2 after. Yes there have always been a few small parties who up to date only helped keep the major parties in the center. You do not need a 2 party system to be spelled out for a govt. to be set up for a 2 party system and that is something you do not understand, and that is something far right do understand. The far right could not gain power until they took over one party (Reb.). It took them 8 years as they started out as the Tea Party section of the Reb. party, but they were run by a few behind the scene's leaders who were far right Reb. They got control in the 2016 using Trump who for his entire life was a dictator want a be, and sleaze by 100%. The leaders issue the orders and the followers obey with out questioning as we all see now. By what you write you are part of that group as you understand none of this. I am sure you are done with this thread as you have been called out and exposed as a member of the far right. Anyone who follows what you ask in your last para. will find that you are 100% wrong. I notice you can not even provide any good a far right Govt has done for the people it has governed.

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Re: Why do we always elect the wrong people?

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Message 6 of 21

@john258 wrote:

@jims730656 wrote:

@john258 wrote:

@jims730656 wrote:

In a republic such as ours, the country moves right or left because the PEOPLE want it to go that way.  The key is citizen involvement, or at least citizen AWARENESS.  Sadly, and I'm sure you'll agree,  the majority has ignored their own responsibility and allowed this corrupt government to run ITSELF!

We have no one but ourselves to blame for the situation we're in.  We just pointlessly pick a side and hope like hell they will win and fix this country all by themselves with us having to do nothing to earn a good and prosperous country.

 

But the problem is that both sides of this single coin DO win and regardless of which party is in charge (temporarily) things never get better because their empty promises were all lies, yet we keep voting for the same parties over and over.

 

And as I said originally, we do NOT have a "two-party system".  It only LOOKS like that because we have had it drilled into our heads for entire generations (even from our own teachers in school) that we not only have a two-party system, Democrats and Republicans are the only two parties that are allowed to BE those parties.

However, nowhere in the Constitution is the very concept of parties even mentioned, and no law in this country specifies that we have such a system.

 

That completely on us, not the politicians.  And I agree we should bring back the old 'Civics' classes, but at this point I doubt there are enough people, knowledgeable enough of the system to TEACH a Civics class.

 

We have over the decades allowed ourselves to be led by the nose by corrupt and incompetent politicians who run things THEIR way, and not with any regard for the people who put them in office,.  That's not how this system was designed.

This is why the so-called 'left' and 'right' politicians do little to nothing for the people.  And that will never change until the liberal and conservative citizens come to some common agreement and stop being ruled by fear of an imaginary "other side" and get RID of these two entrenched parties who control much more than most imagine.

They run everything, except our votes, and even THAT could be taken away by this government under the false guise of "national security".

 

And that could be happening even as we speak.  Considering how the government is trying to convince the people that Russia is controlling our elections (they are not) the day could come when they "temporarily" suspend our elections "for our own good".and we will accept that because we have been made to fear a government-created boogyman and for some insane reason thing our politians will 'protect' us.

And before you scoff at that possibility, look at historical examples of that having happened elsewhere.  And if it happens to other countries, why can't it happen HERE?

 

Again, those who slap a D or R in front of their names are NOT the only people with the intelligence and wisom to make this country work.  But that will never happen intil the PEOPLE do what they are supposed to do.  WE are the leaders and the politicians are supposed to follow OUR dictates.


You did not answer anything I said about the far right, but went into what you said before just using different words. You were wrong the first time and you are wrong the second time. We are in this mess due to the far right coming to power, and the mess will not end until they are out of power just as has been proven all over the world. If you think Russia was not a factor in the last election you  really prove how far off you are in your thinking. You want to end the mess well here is the first step. Do not vote for any one with an R backing. Other steps can follow once the far right is out of power.


You're right.  I didn't 'answer' you because there was no question TO answer, and I didn't address what you said about the "far right" because I was talking about BOTH parties that are .leading the country down the tubes.

If you notice, almost ALL of our problems didn't start this past January.   Most of the things and proceses harming this country have been slowly growing for 50 YEARS or more, during Democratic and Republican administrations and D and R majorities in Congress.

 

And at NO time has the country turned around.  It just got slowly and progressively worse with the partisans on BOTH sides blaming the other for all our problems (such as you are doing here).  The Democrats may have SLOWED our degeneration a little, but they didn't change the downward slide of the country.

I take it by your words that you are a Democrat.  That's your business and I'm not telling you who to follow.  But you should be honest and admit that your Democratic Party is hardly blameless in all that's gone  on in the last 50 years.  (And no, I'm got going to list all of the many failures of the Democrats OR  Republicans)

 

You can dislike what I said.  That's fine.  We're all just talking here, but I'm not going to pile on the Republicans just because you support the opposing side, nor am I going to trash the Democrats if a Republican posts on this thread.  I want them BOTH out of our government and our lives because BOTH parties have had their chance, many times, to make things right instead of making things worse.  And both sides have failed, so why do you want to keep them around?

 

We have other choices.  We just don't want to make that decision so the electorate, as a whole and on both sides are to blame for the sorry condition of this country.  The partisans on the left and right elected these people over the years, so they should own what's going on here.


When you were trying to address this subject by using both parties is like trying to call someone in a wind storm. You can not do it, and that makes you part of the problem. I told you this problem started many years ago and outlined the far rights record every where it has tried to governed. It first struck this country when we were founded. Our founders got rid of the far right (UK) then created this country which solved the problem. Well we need to do the same thing now. Get rid of the far right, then solve the problem. The problem can not be solved till we do that, just like it has been done all over the world. That is the proven path. You have no idea what I am. I can tell you that I have been a member of both parties. By your tone it is apparent you are a Reb., and by your posts one that is far right. Could you be a Trump supporter? Ok if failures scare you  list all the good things the far right has done. When you want both parties out of government you tell us you want no government, and that leads to dictatorship which is the far right so you give your self away. No it is people like you who own what is happening today as you run away from reality, and that shows you are a far right person as that is what they do. They let their leaders call the shots and follow along no matter how much they are hurt by what their leaders do. It is the far right who caused our current problem, and they will end when the far right is removed from power. Sorry but they are the facts.


You said: "When you want both parties out of government you tell us you want no government, and that leads to dictatorship which is the far right so you give your self away."

 

I give nothing away.  If you cannot understand the point they best thing to do is ask the poster what he MEANT without making up a response you THINK addresses the point.

 

I did NOT say or imply I ever wanted NO government.  Kindly show me where I did (or ignore it and move on like most partisans do).  What I DO want is a country closer to what the Founding Fathers designed it to be.  And if you want to read up on the subject, you will see that many of the Founders didn't WANT political parties in the first place.  Here are just two examples:

 

"

John Adams said:

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.

George Washington agreed, saying in his farewell presidential speech:

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty

Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind, (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight,) the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.

It serves always to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another." {their words, not mine]

 

And you won't find ANY reference to parties in the Constitution (the 'owners manual' for this country's government).  Also, there is NO law in the United States that specifies a two-party system OR that the Democrats and Republicans are the only two parties ALLOWED to be those parties in the system.

 

Your kind of thinking conflates the parties with the actual government.  These are two completely different things.  Plus, although I would personally prefer the government to be completely run by independent politicians, if the majority wants parties, fine.  But just not THESE parties.

 

You seems to ignore how the country has been in steady decline and that the Rs and Ds are the ONLY two entities that have been in complete control for over 100 years and the nation has never reversed its course in more than 50+- years.

Politicians in both parties say they will 'fix' everything if you just vote for them, but they never do (and you know that) and they rely only on your fear of the 'other' side to keep them in office.

Stop listening to the speeches of these people and spend some time researching what they DO when the curtain is closed and you'll learn about what I'm talking about instead of misinterpreting my comments to suit your own argument.  But right now, this country is dangerously divided by people with Stockholm Syndrome, and until they wake up and see what is, and has been going on right under their noses I don't see much of a future for this country.

 

Reply if you want, but I said what I came to say and  I'm done with this thread and won't see it.

 

[edit to add] Just to clarify, I don't want anyone to assume I'm right or wrong.  I don't want people to take me at my word, but to go out and do the research themselves and decide, based on FACTS (and wioth a clear eye whether I'm right or wrong.  This isn't Facebook and I'm not in it for 'likles' or 'followers' nor am I doing this just to argue about it.  Just find out on your own what the truth is and ignore the speeches.

That's all I ask.  See you around.

 

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Re: Why do we always elect the wrong people?

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Message 7 of 21

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@jims730656 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

People in a Democracy believe what they're told. Problem is people were told blacks were inferior and the civil war was a Nobel Cause and they believed it. More recently, people believe Clintons murdered lots of people and stole millions from their charity while helping elect a Kenyian President.

 

that sort of thing didn't happen when we had the Fairness Doctrine, but Reagan killed that so Republicans could lie and not lose their broadcast license and Murdoch could turn a major network into a GOPer Ministry ofPropaganda and elect a lying, gutless draftdodging preppytwit like Der Trumper and people would think its all good.

 

Somehow we need to get a SCOTUS that will find a way to explain the founding fathers did not intend Freedom of Speech to become Freedom from Truth.


I can agree with much of that, but when you cherry-pick the negative points of one side without including the negatives of the other you paint an incomplete picture.  You can't blame only one party when they are one of TWO parties that have been running this country for well over 100 years.  Nobody else ran the show.  Just the Ds and Rs.

 

At best they are both inadequate for the job required, and at worst they both work for the 1% at the expense of the 99%, and they do it because the 1% paid for their campaigns.  We didn't.


If everyone - both parties - must share the blame, then nobody's to blame, and nobody gets mad enough to change anything for the better, it's just c'est sera sera.

 

The wrong people get elected for the same reason card sharks win - THEY CHEAT.

If what you say is true, then why are only the REPUBLICANS working to make sure there's no limits on how much money a person can use to buy politicians?

 

It was the Fascist Five of SCOTUS, all appointed by GOPers, who blessed us with Citizens United, so if you want to restore sanity in campaign financing, STOP VOTING FOR REPUBLICANS - they made certain ANOTHER Nazi would be appointed to replace the dead one, and we're stuck with a Fascist Supreme Court for another generation - thanks again Hillary Haters AND all you Progressivew who couldn't be bothered to vote in 2014 so Yertle could keep President Obama from fixing the problem with Garland.

 

Now then, you grouss about me picking on the poor little GOPers who are out to destroy the Middle Class - why don't you do some research and find DEMOCRATS who have introduced legislation that screwed the 99% in order to make the rich richer instead of just parroting the mantra "everybody does it"? Be interested to see what you can dig up, because I've not found any.


Okay, I'll take this one point at a time.

 

First, you said,
"If everyone - both parties - must share the blame, then nobody's to blame, and nobody gets mad enough to change anything for the better, it's just c'est sera sera."

 

That is true, except that when "everybody" must share the blame that means you ALL (both sides) must share blame, not "nobody" is to blame.  But you're right in that nobody gets mad enough to change anything because you're all blaming everything on the OTHER side.  And that 'other' side is blaming YOU. And round and round it goes.

 

Then you said,

"The wrong people get elected for the same reason card sharks win - THEY CHEAT."

 

No, they don't 'cheat'.  They CAN'T cheat.  But they CONVINCE enough people to vote for them and that's mostly through lies and instilling irrational fear of the 'other' side.  If they could simply cheat they wouldn't need to beg the 1% for all that campaign money, would they?  You might want to ask yourself how your side gets enough money to compete with the other party?

 

Then you said,

"If what you say is true, then why are only the REPUBLICANS working to make sure there's no limits on how much money a person can use to buy politicians?"

 

I never said ONLY Republicans did anything.  Not in this thread, this forum or anywhere else.  I say BOTH are the problem.

 

Then,

"It was the Fascist Five of SCOTUS, all appointed by GOPers, who blessed us with Citizens United, so if you want to restore sanity in campaign financing, STOP VOTING FOR REPUBLICANS - they made certain ANOTHER Nazi would be appointed to replace the dead one, and we're stuck with a Fascist Supreme Court for another generation"

 

About that.  For one thing, and the Democrats won't mention this, but the 'Citizens United vs. the FEC' decision benefits Democrats every bit as much as Republicans.  Although I don't personally like that decision either, the SCOTUS' job is mainly to make sure all laws apply to EVERYONE and the FEC rule didn't fir that criteria.  So now the Democrats can raise money the same way Republicans do. (I read the decision and I know how the court works)

 

As for the "Fascist Five", let me tell you about at least three of them. 

Antonin Scalia won confirmation with a vote of 98-0 (ALL the Democratic senatopts voted to confirm)

John Roberts was confirmed with a 78-22 vote with 1/2 the Democrats voting to confirm.

And everybody's favorite, the former Monsanto lawyer, Clarence Thomas would never have BEEN confirmed without Democratic votes. Thomas needed 9 Democrat votes to confirm. He got 11 (Don't believe me.  Look it up.)

 

And I never complained about you picking on  "poor little GOPers" because I'm as much against THEM as I am the Democrats.  I'm just not wasting my time telling a Democrat like you how bad the GOP is because you already KNOW that, so what's the point? And when talking to Republicans I focus on THEIR party for the same reason.

Your problem is you see nothing wrong with your own party.

 

As for the Dems introducing bad bills.   If you look beneath the surface you'll see that this is all political theatre designed to make the members of both parties think their party is 'fighting the good fight' while BOTH parties benefit from these bills.  But when the TV cameras are no they ACT like they oppose them (like the SCOTUS example above).

 

So let me put a question to YOU.  At ANY time in recent history, when the Democrats had control, did they ONCE repeal or attempt to repeal a bad Republican law?  Did they even even MENTION these bad laws once they had the power?

 

(sorry about the bad formatting.  There's something wrong with this forum software)

 

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Re: Why do we always elect the wrong people?

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Message 8 of 21

The "wrong people" in any election are the ones who are in it for the POWER.

 

Since 1968, that has always been the Republicans. Nixon's Dirty Tricks and Watergate lowered the bar for American politics back to the days of Tammeny Hall, and their Gerrymanders and voter suppression have pushed it even lower - Boss Tweed only stole elections in New York.

 

Now we find out GOPers hired the most sophisticated psychological manipulators on the Planet - the folks who made millions think Soviet Communism was a good deal for decades. So now they've switched gears and instead of formenting a Commie Revolution in the USA (long-lost cause) they've turned us into a neoFascist State that has not been this divided since 1864.

 

Electing fascists in America is perfect for Russia - it removes us from World Events by removing our moral authority, destroyes our strongest alliances by making those allies question our resolve, and cripples our economy by driving away all our customers. They dethroned a Super Power without firing a shot - not a bad performance.

 

Perhaps a Hillary Hater in the audience can tell us if they received a "Thank You" card from Putin - you SHOULD have.

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Re: Why do we always elect the wrong people?

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Message 9 of 21

@jims730656 wrote:

@john258 wrote:

@jims730656 wrote:

In a republic such as ours, the country moves right or left because the PEOPLE want it to go that way.  The key is citizen involvement, or at least citizen AWARENESS.  Sadly, and I'm sure you'll agree,  the majority has ignored their own responsibility and allowed this corrupt government to run ITSELF!

We have no one but ourselves to blame for the situation we're in.  We just pointlessly pick a side and hope like hell they will win and fix this country all by themselves with us having to do nothing to earn a good and prosperous country.

 

But the problem is that both sides of this single coin DO win and regardless of which party is in charge (temporarily) things never get better because their empty promises were all lies, yet we keep voting for the same parties over and over.

 

And as I said originally, we do NOT have a "two-party system".  It only LOOKS like that because we have had it drilled into our heads for entire generations (even from our own teachers in school) that we not only have a two-party system, Democrats and Republicans are the only two parties that are allowed to BE those parties.

However, nowhere in the Constitution is the very concept of parties even mentioned, and no law in this country specifies that we have such a system.

 

That completely on us, not the politicians.  And I agree we should bring back the old 'Civics' classes, but at this point I doubt there are enough people, knowledgeable enough of the system to TEACH a Civics class.

 

We have over the decades allowed ourselves to be led by the nose by corrupt and incompetent politicians who run things THEIR way, and not with any regard for the people who put them in office,.  That's not how this system was designed.

This is why the so-called 'left' and 'right' politicians do little to nothing for the people.  And that will never change until the liberal and conservative citizens come to some common agreement and stop being ruled by fear of an imaginary "other side" and get RID of these two entrenched parties who control much more than most imagine.

They run everything, except our votes, and even THAT could be taken away by this government under the false guise of "national security".

 

And that could be happening even as we speak.  Considering how the government is trying to convince the people that Russia is controlling our elections (they are not) the day could come when they "temporarily" suspend our elections "for our own good".and we will accept that because we have been made to fear a government-created boogyman and for some insane reason thing our politians will 'protect' us.

And before you scoff at that possibility, look at historical examples of that having happened elsewhere.  And if it happens to other countries, why can't it happen HERE?

 

Again, those who slap a D or R in front of their names are NOT the only people with the intelligence and wisom to make this country work.  But that will never happen intil the PEOPLE do what they are supposed to do.  WE are the leaders and the politicians are supposed to follow OUR dictates.


You did not answer anything I said about the far right, but went into what you said before just using different words. You were wrong the first time and you are wrong the second time. We are in this mess due to the far right coming to power, and the mess will not end until they are out of power just as has been proven all over the world. If you think Russia was not a factor in the last election you  really prove how far off you are in your thinking. You want to end the mess well here is the first step. Do not vote for any one with an R backing. Other steps can follow once the far right is out of power.


You're right.  I didn't 'answer' you because there was no question TO answer, and I didn't address what you said about the "far right" because I was talking about BOTH parties that are .leading the country down the tubes.

If you notice, almost ALL of our problems didn't start this past January.   Most of the things and proceses harming this country have been slowly growing for 50 YEARS or more, during Democratic and Republican administrations and D and R majorities in Congress.

 

And at NO time has the country turned around.  It just got slowly and progressively worse with the partisans on BOTH sides blaming the other for all our problems (such as you are doing here).  The Democrats may have SLOWED our degeneration a little, but they didn't change the downward slide of the country.

I take it by your words that you are a Democrat.  That's your business and I'm not telling you who to follow.  But you should be honest and admit that your Democratic Party is hardly blameless in all that's gone  on in the last 50 years.  (And no, I'm got going to list all of the many failures of the Democrats OR  Republicans)

 

You can dislike what I said.  That's fine.  We're all just talking here, but I'm not going to pile on the Republicans just because you support the opposing side, nor am I going to trash the Democrats if a Republican posts on this thread.  I want them BOTH out of our government and our lives because BOTH parties have had their chance, many times, to make things right instead of making things worse.  And both sides have failed, so why do you want to keep them around?

 

We have other choices.  We just don't want to make that decision so the electorate, as a whole and on both sides are to blame for the sorry condition of this country.  The partisans on the left and right elected these people over the years, so they should own what's going on here.


When you were trying to address this subject by using both parties is like trying to call someone in a wind storm. You can not do it, and that makes you part of the problem. I told you this problem started many years ago and outlined the far rights record every where it has tried to governed. It first struck this country when we were founded. Our founders got rid of the far right (UK) then created this country which solved the problem. Well we need to do the same thing now. Get rid of the far right, then solve the problem. The problem can not be solved till we do that, just like it has been done all over the world. That is the proven path. You have no idea what I am. I can tell you that I have been a member of both parties. By your tone it is apparent you are a Reb., and by your posts one that is far right. Could you be a Trump supporter? Ok if failures scare you  list all the good things the far right has done. When you want both parties out of government you tell us you want no government, and that leads to dictatorship which is the far right so you give your self away. No it is people like you who own what is happening today as you run away from reality, and that shows you are a far right person as that is what they do. They let their leaders call the shots and follow along no matter how much they are hurt by what their leaders do. It is the far right who caused our current problem, and they will end when the far right is removed from power. Sorry but they are the facts.

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Re: Why do we always elect the wrong people?

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Message 10 of 21

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@jims730656 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

People in a Democracy believe what they're told. Problem is people were told blacks were inferior and the civil war was a Nobel Cause and they believed it. More recently, people believe Clintons murdered lots of people and stole millions from their charity while helping elect a Kenyian President.

 

that sort of thing didn't happen when we had the Fairness Doctrine, but Reagan killed that so Republicans could lie and not lose their broadcast license and Murdoch could turn a major network into a GOPer Ministry ofPropaganda and elect a lying, gutless draftdodging preppytwit like Der Trumper and people would think its all good.

 

Somehow we need to get a SCOTUS that will find a way to explain the founding fathers did not intend Freedom of Speech to become Freedom from Truth.


I can agree with much of that, but when you cherry-pick the negative points of one side without including the negatives of the other you paint an incomplete picture.  You can't blame only one party when they are one of TWO parties that have been running this country for well over 100 years.  Nobody else ran the show.  Just the Ds and Rs.

 

At best they are both inadequate for the job required, and at worst they both work for the 1% at the expense of the 99%, and they do it because the 1% paid for their campaigns.  We didn't.


If everyone - both parties - must share the blame, then nobody's to blame, and nobody gets mad enough to change anything for the better, it's just c'est sera sera.

 

The wrong people get elected for the same reason card sharks win - THEY CHEAT.

If what you say is true, then why are only the REPUBLICANS working to make sure there's no limits on how much money a person can use to buy politicians?

 

It was the Fascist Five of SCOTUS, all appointed by GOPers, who blessed us with Citizens United, so if you want to restore sanity in campaign financing, STOP VOTING FOR REPUBLICANS - they made certain ANOTHER Nazi would be appointed to replace the dead one, and we're stuck with a Fascist Supreme Court for another generation - thanks again Hillary Haters AND all you Progressivew who couldn't be bothered to vote in 2014 so Yertle could keep President Obama from fixing the problem with Garland.

 

Now then, you grouss about me picking on the poor little GOPers who are out to destroy the Middle Class - why don't you do some research and find DEMOCRATS who have introduced legislation that screwed the 99% in order to make the rich richer instead of just parroting the mantra "everybody does it"? Be interested to see what you can dig up, because I've not found any.


You rant and rave about the "Fascist Five", the loss of the government's ability to control communication (sounds a bit fascist), and the GOP being out to destroy the 99%. But think , the 1% cannot cast sufficient votes to elect anyone. So, for your theory to be accurate it must be the the 99% are stupid people that just do not see things your way.

 

No wonder you push for the neoMarxist Movement - they will be sure that only the "smart" people get to vote.

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