From ‘liquid biopsies’ to precision medicine, these five developments will change cancer care in the next decade. Learn more.

Reply
Valued Social Butterfly
3
Kudos
374
Views

Re: Why do we always elect the wrong people?

374 Views
Message 11 of 21

@jims730656 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

People in a Democracy believe what they're told. Problem is people were told blacks were inferior and the civil war was a Nobel Cause and they believed it. More recently, people believe Clintons murdered lots of people and stole millions from their charity while helping elect a Kenyian President.

 

that sort of thing didn't happen when we had the Fairness Doctrine, but Reagan killed that so Republicans could lie and not lose their broadcast license and Murdoch could turn a major network into a GOPer Ministry ofPropaganda and elect a lying, gutless draftdodging preppytwit like Der Trumper and people would think its all good.

 

Somehow we need to get a SCOTUS that will find a way to explain the founding fathers did not intend Freedom of Speech to become Freedom from Truth.


I can agree with much of that, but when you cherry-pick the negative points of one side without including the negatives of the other you paint an incomplete picture.  You can't blame only one party when they are one of TWO parties that have been running this country for well over 100 years.  Nobody else ran the show.  Just the Ds and Rs.

 

At best they are both inadequate for the job required, and at worst they both work for the 1% at the expense of the 99%, and they do it because the 1% paid for their campaigns.  We didn't.


If everyone - both parties - must share the blame, then nobody's to blame, and nobody gets mad enough to change anything for the better, it's just c'est sera sera.

 

The wrong people get elected for the same reason card sharks win - THEY CHEAT.

If what you say is true, then why are only the REPUBLICANS working to make sure there's no limits on how much money a person can use to buy politicians?

 

It was the Fascist Five of SCOTUS, all appointed by GOPers, who blessed us with Citizens United, so if you want to restore sanity in campaign financing, STOP VOTING FOR REPUBLICANS - they made certain ANOTHER Nazi would be appointed to replace the dead one, and we're stuck with a Fascist Supreme Court for another generation - thanks again Hillary Haters AND all you Progressivew who couldn't be bothered to vote in 2014 so Yertle could keep President Obama from fixing the problem with Garland.

 

Now then, you grouss about me picking on the poor little GOPers who are out to destroy the Middle Class - why don't you do some research and find DEMOCRATS who have introduced legislation that screwed the 99% in order to make the rich richer instead of just parroting the mantra "everybody does it"? Be interested to see what you can dig up, because I've not found any.

Report Inappropriate Content
3
Kudos
374
Views
Frequent Social Butterfly
2
Kudos
366
Views

Re: Why do we always elect the wrong people?

366 Views
Message 12 of 21

@umbarch64 wrote:

jims.....Walt Kelly said, "We have met the enemy and he is us".  He first said that on a poster and later had Pogo do it for him....so we wouldn't forget, I suppose.  I thought I just heard you say something like that......that right?  

 

A 'Hobson's Choice' is not a choice at all.  It is 'choosing to accept the offering or nothing at all'.  Being forced to choose the 'least worst' is sort of a 'Hobson's Choice'.  You can choose to choose not to vote, but that may have really, really bad consequences.  I don't have an answer....just sayin'.


Kelly was spot on when he wrote that so many decades ago.  The truly sad  thing is that it still holds true today.  The reason being that most people are apt to sat "we have met them enemy ind he is THEM".  Most people it seems treat politics as an "us vs them" situation rather than try to unite as a people.  And that is how a corrupt government works best, divide the people and have them looking at each other rather than focus on our common problems.

 

People have evolved (DEvolved actually) into having the ability to refuse to accept the results of their own actions, and that includes voting.  It's always  somebody elses fault it seems.

Report Inappropriate Content
2
Kudos
366
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
353
Views

Re: Why do we always elect the wrong people?

353 Views
Message 13 of 21

jims.....Walt Kelly said, "We have met the enemy and he is us".  He first said that on a poster and later had Pogo do it for him....so we wouldn't forget, I suppose.  I thought I just heard you say something like that......that right?  

 

A 'Hobson's Choice' is not a choice at all.  It is 'choosing to accept the offering or nothing at all'.  Being forced to choose the 'least worst' is sort of a 'Hobson's Choice'.  You can choose to choose not to vote, but that may have really, really bad consequences.  I don't have an answer....just sayin'.

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
353
Views
Highlighted
Frequent Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
370
Views

Re: Why do we always elect the wrong people?

370 Views
Message 14 of 21

@Olderscout66 wrote:

People in a Democracy believe what they're told. Problem is people were told blacks were inferior and the civil war was a Nobel Cause and they believed it. More recently, people believe Clintons murdered lots of people and stole millions from their charity while helping elect a Kenyian President.

 

that sort of thing didn't happen when we had the Fairness Doctrine, but Reagan killed that so Republicans could lie and not lose their broadcast license and Murdoch could turn a major network into a GOPer Ministry ofPropaganda and elect a lying, gutless draftdodging preppytwit like Der Trumper and people would think its all good.

 

Somehow we need to get a SCOTUS that will find a way to explain the founding fathers did not intend Freedom of Speech to become Freedom from Truth.


I can agree with much of that, but when you cherry-pick the negative points of one side without including the negatives of the other you paint an incomplete picture.  You can't blame only one party when they are one of TWO parties that have been running this country for well over 100 years.  Nobody else ran the show.  Just the Ds and Rs.

 

At best they are both inadequate for the job required, and at worst they both work for the 1% at the expense of the 99%, and they do it because the 1% paid for their campaigns.  We didn't.

Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
370
Views
Frequent Social Butterfly
2
Kudos
366
Views

Re: Why do we always elect the wrong people?

366 Views
Message 15 of 21

@john258 wrote:

@jims730656 wrote:

In a republic such as ours, the country moves right or left because the PEOPLE want it to go that way.  The key is citizen involvement, or at least citizen AWARENESS.  Sadly, and I'm sure you'll agree,  the majority has ignored their own responsibility and allowed this corrupt government to run ITSELF!

We have no one but ourselves to blame for the situation we're in.  We just pointlessly pick a side and hope like hell they will win and fix this country all by themselves with us having to do nothing to earn a good and prosperous country.

 

But the problem is that both sides of this single coin DO win and regardless of which party is in charge (temporarily) things never get better because their empty promises were all lies, yet we keep voting for the same parties over and over.

 

And as I said originally, we do NOT have a "two-party system".  It only LOOKS like that because we have had it drilled into our heads for entire generations (even from our own teachers in school) that we not only have a two-party system, Democrats and Republicans are the only two parties that are allowed to BE those parties.

However, nowhere in the Constitution is the very concept of parties even mentioned, and no law in this country specifies that we have such a system.

 

That completely on us, not the politicians.  And I agree we should bring back the old 'Civics' classes, but at this point I doubt there are enough people, knowledgeable enough of the system to TEACH a Civics class.

 

We have over the decades allowed ourselves to be led by the nose by corrupt and incompetent politicians who run things THEIR way, and not with any regard for the people who put them in office,.  That's not how this system was designed.

This is why the so-called 'left' and 'right' politicians do little to nothing for the people.  And that will never change until the liberal and conservative citizens come to some common agreement and stop being ruled by fear of an imaginary "other side" and get RID of these two entrenched parties who control much more than most imagine.

They run everything, except our votes, and even THAT could be taken away by this government under the false guise of "national security".

 

And that could be happening even as we speak.  Considering how the government is trying to convince the people that Russia is controlling our elections (they are not) the day could come when they "temporarily" suspend our elections "for our own good".and we will accept that because we have been made to fear a government-created boogyman and for some insane reason thing our politians will 'protect' us.

And before you scoff at that possibility, look at historical examples of that having happened elsewhere.  And if it happens to other countries, why can't it happen HERE?

 

Again, those who slap a D or R in front of their names are NOT the only people with the intelligence and wisom to make this country work.  But that will never happen intil the PEOPLE do what they are supposed to do.  WE are the leaders and the politicians are supposed to follow OUR dictates.


You did not answer anything I said about the far right, but went into what you said before just using different words. You were wrong the first time and you are wrong the second time. We are in this mess due to the far right coming to power, and the mess will not end until they are out of power just as has been proven all over the world. If you think Russia was not a factor in the last election you  really prove how far off you are in your thinking. You want to end the mess well here is the first step. Do not vote for any one with an R backing. Other steps can follow once the far right is out of power.


You're right.  I didn't 'answer' you because there was no question TO answer, and I didn't address what you said about the "far right" because I was talking about BOTH parties that are .leading the country down the tubes.

If you notice, almost ALL of our problems didn't start this past January.   Most of the things and proceses harming this country have been slowly growing for 50 YEARS or more, during Democratic and Republican administrations and D and R majorities in Congress.

 

And at NO time has the country turned around.  It just got slowly and progressively worse with the partisans on BOTH sides blaming the other for all our problems (such as you are doing here).  The Democrats may have SLOWED our degeneration a little, but they didn't change the downward slide of the country.

I take it by your words that you are a Democrat.  That's your business and I'm not telling you who to follow.  But you should be honest and admit that your Democratic Party is hardly blameless in all that's gone  on in the last 50 years.  (And no, I'm got going to list all of the many failures of the Democrats OR  Republicans)

 

You can dislike what I said.  That's fine.  We're all just talking here, but I'm not going to pile on the Republicans just because you support the opposing side, nor am I going to trash the Democrats if a Republican posts on this thread.  I want them BOTH out of our government and our lives because BOTH parties have had their chance, many times, to make things right instead of making things worse.  And both sides have failed, so why do you want to keep them around?

 

We have other choices.  We just don't want to make that decision so the electorate, as a whole and on both sides are to blame for the sorry condition of this country.  The partisans on the left and right elected these people over the years, so they should own what's going on here.

Report Inappropriate Content
2
Kudos
366
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
356
Views

Re: Why do we always elect the wrong people?

356 Views
Message 16 of 21

People in a Democracy believe what they're told. Problem is people were told blacks were inferior and the civil war was a Nobel Cause and they believed it. More recently, people believe Clintons murdered lots of people and stole millions from their charity while helping elect a Kenyian President.

 

that sort of thing didn't happen when we had the Fairness Doctrine, but Reagan killed that so Republicans could lie and not lose their broadcast license and Murdoch could turn a major network into a GOPer Ministry ofPropaganda and elect a lying, gutless draftdodging preppytwit like Der Trumper and people would think its all good.

 

Somehow we need to get a SCOTUS that will find a way to explain the founding fathers did not intend Freedom of Speech to become Freedom from Truth.

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
356
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
357
Views

Re: Why do we always elect the wrong people?

357 Views
Message 17 of 21

@jims730656 wrote:

@john258 wrote:

j

Well the food you talk about really has little to do with who we elect. Here are some thoughts. The country has been drifting right for a long time  now. That far right drift is the cause of today's problem because all you have to do is look at the far right. The far right has never brought anything but misery to the people it governed for over 200 years. Just name a far right Govt. who did anything good. Well there was one thing. This country was created by people who over threw a far right govt. UK. Some bad things. WW1, WW2, depression, Hitler. Sadly people who are followers of the far right, or vote for them lack the ability to think for themselves. The far right take this in the US and create voting dist.  to make sure the far right win power even when they loose in votes. We saw this in the last election Trump, and in the elections for the house. How do you end what we have today. Never vote for any Reb. for a few years so that the far right which now controls them is out of power. Change the way we draw voting dist. Follow CA. Once they are out of power and the Reb. move to the center vote that way if they have a good person running. Make sure the Dems stay in the center. Start giving classes in schools to teach how a country should be run.


In a republic such as ours, the country moves right or left because the PEOPLE want it to go that way.  The key is citizen involvement, or at least citizen AWARENESS.  Sadly, and I'm sure you'll agree,  the majority has ignored their own responsibility and allowed this corrupt government to run ITSELF!

We have no one but ourselves to blame for the situation we're in.  We just pointlessly pick a side and hope like hell they will win and fix this country all by themselves with us having to do nothing to earn a good and prosperous country.

 

But the problem is that both sides of this single coin DO win and regardless of which party is in charge (temporarily) things never get better because their empty promises were all lies, yet we keep voting for the same parties over and over.

 

And as I said originally, we do NOT have a "two-party system".  It only LOOKS like that because we have had it drilled into our heads for entire generations (even from our own teachers in school) that we not only have a two-party system, Democrats and Republicans are the only two parties that are allowed to BE those parties.

However, nowhere in the Constitution is the very concept of parties even mentioned, and no law in this country specifies that we have such a system.

 

That completely on us, not the politicians.  And I agree we should bring back the old 'Civics' classes, but at this point I doubt there are enough people, knowledgeable enough of the system to TEACH a Civics class.

 

We have over the decades allowed ourselves to be led by the nose by corrupt and incompetent politicians who run things THEIR way, and not with any regard for the people who put them in office,.  That's not how this system was designed.

This is why the so-called 'left' and 'right' politicians do little to nothing for the people.  And that will never change until the liberal and conservative citizens come to some common agreement and stop being ruled by fear of an imaginary "other side" and get RID of these two entrenched parties who control much more than most imagine.

They run everything, except our votes, and even THAT could be taken away by this government under the false guise of "national security".

 

And that could be happening even as we speak.  Considering how the government is trying to convince the people that Russia is controlling our elections (they are not) the day could come when they "temporarily" suspend our elections "for our own good".and we will accept that because we have been made to fear a government-created boogyman and for some insane reason thing our politians will 'protect' us.

And before you scoff at that possibility, look at historical examples of that having happened elsewhere.  And if it happens to other countries, why can't it happen HERE?

 

Again, those who slap a D or R in front of their names are NOT the only people with the intelligence and wisom to make this country work.  But that will never happen intil the PEOPLE do what they are supposed to do.  WE are the leaders and the politicians are supposed to follow OUR dictates.


You did not answer anything I said about the far right, but went into what you said before just using different words. You were wrong the first time and you are wrong the second time. We are in this mess due to the far right coming to power, and the mess will not end until they are out of power just as has been proven all over the world. If you think Russia was not a factor in the last election you  really prove how far off you are in your thinking. You want to end the mess well here is the first step. Do not vote for any one with an R backing. Other steps can follow once the far right is out of power.

Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
357
Views
Treasured Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
370
Views

Re: Why do we always elect the wrong people?

370 Views
Message 18 of 21

There are some very cynical explanations. and one of them happen to be that in this country.Americans have felt that the government is the responsibility of the politicians and not the responsibility of the citizens of this country.

And they have never demanded accountability from any of them.

They belong to a political Party and barely know their platform  or what they are supposed to stand for.

And the words, "Oh you know politicians"  or " there is nothing that we can do to change things"   are some of the excuses that you hear, 
Presently more than ever we as a country have descended to have the government that we all deserve.

Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
370
Views
Frequent Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
373
Views

Re: Why do we always elect the wrong people?

373 Views
Message 19 of 21

@john258 wrote:

j

Well the food you talk about really has little to do with who we elect. Here are some thoughts. The country has been drifting right for a long time  now. That far right drift is the cause of today's problem because all you have to do is look at the far right. The far right has never brought anything but misery to the people it governed for over 200 years. Just name a far right Govt. who did anything good. Well there was one thing. This country was created by people who over threw a far right govt. UK. Some bad things. WW1, WW2, depression, Hitler. Sadly people who are followers of the far right, or vote for them lack the ability to think for themselves. The far right take this in the US and create voting dist.  to make sure the far right win power even when they loose in votes. We saw this in the last election Trump, and in the elections for the house. How do you end what we have today. Never vote for any Reb. for a few years so that the far right which now controls them is out of power. Change the way we draw voting dist. Follow CA. Once they are out of power and the Reb. move to the center vote that way if they have a good person running. Make sure the Dems stay in the center. Start giving classes in schools to teach how a country should be run.


In a republic such as ours, the country moves right or left because the PEOPLE want it to go that way.  The key is citizen involvement, or at least citizen AWARENESS.  Sadly, and I'm sure you'll agree,  the majority has ignored their own responsibility and allowed this corrupt government to run ITSELF!

We have no one but ourselves to blame for the situation we're in.  We just pointlessly pick a side and hope like hell they will win and fix this country all by themselves with us having to do nothing to earn a good and prosperous country.

 

But the problem is that both sides of this single coin DO win and regardless of which party is in charge (temporarily) things never get better because their empty promises were all lies, yet we keep voting for the same parties over and over.

 

And as I said originally, we do NOT have a "two-party system".  It only LOOKS like that because we have had it drilled into our heads for entire generations (even from our own teachers in school) that we not only have a two-party system, Democrats and Republicans are the only two parties that are allowed to BE those parties.

However, nowhere in the Constitution is the very concept of parties even mentioned, and no law in this country specifies that we have such a system.

 

That completely on us, not the politicians.  And I agree we should bring back the old 'Civics' classes, but at this point I doubt there are enough people, knowledgeable enough of the system to TEACH a Civics class.

 

We have over the decades allowed ourselves to be led by the nose by corrupt and incompetent politicians who run things THEIR way, and not with any regard for the people who put them in office,.  That's not how this system was designed.

This is why the so-called 'left' and 'right' politicians do little to nothing for the people.  And that will never change until the liberal and conservative citizens come to some common agreement and stop being ruled by fear of an imaginary "other side" and get RID of these two entrenched parties who control much more than most imagine.

They run everything, except our votes, and even THAT could be taken away by this government under the false guise of "national security".

 

And that could be happening even as we speak.  Considering how the government is trying to convince the people that Russia is controlling our elections (they are not) the day could come when they "temporarily" suspend our elections "for our own good".and we will accept that because we have been made to fear a government-created boogyman and for some insane reason thing our politians will 'protect' us.

And before you scoff at that possibility, look at historical examples of that having happened elsewhere.  And if it happens to other countries, why can't it happen HERE?

 

Again, those who slap a D or R in front of their names are NOT the only people with the intelligence and wisom to make this country work.  But that will never happen intil the PEOPLE do what they are supposed to do.  WE are the leaders and the politicians are supposed to follow OUR dictates.

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
373
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
397
Views

Re: Why do we always elect the wrong people?

397 Views
Message 20 of 21

@jims730656 wrote:

I'm not much surprised by anything that happens in Washington these days.  Actually,  I stopped being surprised in the late 60s.  What we are going through now, and the tales of woe we tell is just a variation of the same story about what's been happening to the American People for the past 60+ years.  No matter what the story is,  it always boils down to the same thing.  The people are being shafted continuously by the same people we ELECT!

 

We elect Republicans and we (rightfully) complain, then we elect Democrats and we still rightfully complain.  Then we go back to the Republicans and things don't improve, and then we go with the Democrats etc etc. and yet our story never changes.  This country has been led by the same two parties, and, even with the occasional changing of whichever party is in the majority, the country never EVER improves. It just slowly continues on the same  downward race to the bottom while the ultra-rich and powerful keep growing in number.

 

Neither party's "leadership" has changed the direction if the United States outside of an occasional minor slowing of our descent.  It's like every election is reduced to two choices, bad and a little worse.  It's like choosing between two murderers.  We reject the one who killed ten people but we support the one who only killed NINE people (because he has to be SOO much better than the other one.  And when the one we pick keeps on killing we act surprised.

 

Realistically, you can almost understand why younger people take their sides and keep looking for someone to save them (and that someone never comes).

 

But there is really no excuse for anyone in our age range to ignore the fact that we have been led by TWO corrupt and self-serving political parties that only serve the ones who bought their campaigns.  WE of all people have SEEN this happen over and over again with our own eyes, but we still keep the same parties in power.  We pick one of them and then blame the other one for everything wrong that ever happens to this country and her people.

 

The Democrats and Republicans have had all the power to ruin, or to fix this nation.  There is no one else to blame, but we keep following the ones who harm us.  And they will continue to harm us until we (right and left) UNITE and remove these parties.

 

This is NOT a two-party system and there are other people out there who are smarter and more honest than what we have now. 

 

Just take a moment to consider that.with a clear-eyed view and to remember these people donm't elect themselves!

 

Just some food for thought


Well the food you talk about really has little to do with who we elect. Here are some thoughts. The country has been drifting right for a long time  now. That far right drift is the cause of today's problem because all you have to do is look at the far right. The far right has never brought anything but misery to the people it governed for over 200 years. Just name a far right Govt. who did anything good. Well there was one thing. This country was created by people who over threw a far right govt. UK. Some bad things. WW1, WW2, depression, Hitler. Sadly people who are followers of the far right, or vote for them lack the ability to think for themselves. The far right take this in the US and create voting dist.  to make sure the far right win power even when they loose in votes. We saw this in the last election Trump, and in the elections for the house. How do you end what we have today. Never vote for any Reb. for a few years so that the far right which now controls them is out of power. Change the way we draw voting dist. Follow CA. Once they are out of power and the Reb. move to the center vote that way if they have a good person running. Make sure the Dems stay in the center. Start giving classes in schools to teach how a country should be run.

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
397
Views
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Users
Announcements

Open Enrollment: Oct 15-Dec 7, 2019 Find resources to help you decide on the best healthcare insurance plans for you during Open Enrollment season

Top Authors