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Re: Why There Are Government Programs

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Message 51 of 127

That has nothing to do with government programs, but of rights of the people.

 

The rights of the people are what the people decide they are under law,  those rights are not limited to the rights enumerated in the Constitution.

 

Your pension is not a Constitutional right, but it is a legal right under US law.

 

Social Security is not a Constitutional right, but it is a legal right.

 

Unemployment benefits are not a Constitutional right, but it is a legal right.

 

Laws define rights under law, those laws can be for food stamps, or military pensions.

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Re: Why There Are Government Programs

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Message 52 of 127

@ManicProgressive wrote:




This reminds me of my farmer uncle who used to sit around at holidays pointing at a bunch of the other relatives — government workers. “I pay your salary and your salary and yours.”  It all evens out. We paid for his soy subsidy to get him to stop planting tobacco crops. Smiley Wink 

 

The  government is the people. It’s how we organize ourselves to meet our societal needs. 


It is not those of us who are receiving retirement benefits from the government that are complaining, but some of those who have retired from industry enjoying benefits won by their unions.   There is no doubt that those complaining here are doing so based on political bias of opinion.

 

I chose my career in the military based on what I enjoyed doing.  And that choice was over an offer of training and employment in the civilian sector with a good future.


“Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself”. . . FDR
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Re: Why There Are Government Programs

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Message 53 of 127

@Richva wrote:

Generally, there are government programs because charitable organization like the Catholic Church are too busy protecting pedophiles to bother actually help the poor. 


Anecdotal only, but I used to work with a woman who was devoutly Catholic. We had desk jobs but her husband was a roofer. He fell at work one day and was injured so badly he could no longer do roofing work. She reached out to a catholic charity for some financial help, who turned her down. I don’t know why. But she was in her 40s still raising children. I knew that loss of income must have hurt. And that to me is a HUGE problem with private charity. Private charity by its very nature discriminates based on who it deems morally worthy of aid. And that’s their right. But it leaves pockets of unmet needs.

 

Government aid places mostly income or asset tests.  You can be black or white, lazy or hardworking, religious or secular, and you still qualify based on need. 

 

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Re: Why There Are Government Programs

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Message 54 of 127

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

So we should not have any government programs? Remember that next time you turn the water on. Remember that next time you turn the lights on or drive on a road. Remember that next time you receive an SS check or a retirement check from the military or another government job. It goes on and on.


So who said that?

 

In your lame example - a retirement check is received as a result of it being part of an individual's compensation package with his employer - not his need.


Without "government programs" retired government workers wouldn't have had jobs and would have no retirement ......... both paid for by the taxpayers.

 

By the way .......... if you don't "need" your retirement, send the checks back.


This reminds me of my farmer uncle who used to sit around at holidays pointing at a bunch of the other relatives — government workers. “I pay your salary and your salary and yours.”  It all evens out. We paid for his soy subsidy to get him to stop planting tobacco crops. Smiley Wink 

 

The  government is the people. It’s how we organize ourselves to meet our societal needs. 

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Re: Why There Are Government Programs

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Message 55 of 127

Why There Are Government Programs

 

Everyone benefits from the work they do, and the work other people do. Public or private, union or non union, legal worker or not.

 

Even if a person works for a very low wage, with no benefits, no retirement, with no ability to save, our society benefits from that person's labor.

 

Truth be told someone somewhere makes or saves money from that low cost labor. Examples of that are Wal-Mart, Home Depot and so on.

 

Wages are literally so low for some people they can't live on them, they can't provide, food, shelter, clothing, and medical care for themselves and their children. Yet the labor they provide earns money for those that employ them, they people who supply the goods they sell or install, the companies that employ them to cut grass, watch children, collect garbage, work in the fields.

 

People who talk about " government handouts " recognize the value of their own work, but refuse to acknowledge the value of low paid workers. They also refuse to acknowledge the value of socialism in American society. Your government pension, your Social Security check, your VA medical care, the wages you earned as an employee of the public, all socialism, all government programs.

 

Not only that, all the jobs that are spun off government spending. Where would Bill Gates, Amazon, and Google be today if the US government had not built the Internet?

 

Whole cities and towns are built around government spending on ships, aircraft, equipment and supplies.

 

Those jobs and everything that comes with those jobs comes from socialism.

 

So if you want to beat up people who depend on the government for a living go look in the mirror, your job probably came directly or indirectly from government spending.

 

I'm just a plumber, but where would I find work if there were no water and sewer, if there were no electricity to pump water, if there were no phones or Internet to order materials, why would factories exist to manufacture the materials for plumbing, why would stores exist to sell those supplies.

 

Way back when, big cities like New York did this stuff on their own, but it was still done with taxpayer money, it was still socialism. It was state and city money instead of federal money.

 

Is that what red America wants to go back to?

 

Do people in Wyoming really want to build and pay for their own roads and other infrastructure?

 

Of Course not.

 

The path out of poverty is to avoid unplanned and unwanted pregnancy, and before you say women should just hold an aspirin between their knees let me point out that hasn't worked one time in the last 10,000 years as a method of birth control, not though war, famine, plague, and even the worst form of oppression short of actual genocide.

 

Unless of course people want a sea of poor, hungry, uneducated people. That might have worked a hundred or hundreds of years ago, but those days are over, desperate uneducated people aren't required anymore, machines run themselves, the drive to reduce the cost of labor will not cease, we can't go back to the way it was.

 

The path forward is less unplanned and unwanted pregnancy, better education, adequate food shelter and medical care. Give children what they need to succeed, so they can grow up and actually succeed.

 

We need government programs to do that , and people need to pay for those programs, we can't go back to forty acres, an outhouse, have a large family so when you are old they can take care of you, and when disease comes around pray it's because you didn't pray hard enough.

 

All of that stuff was always a romantic version of the way it was, it was hard brutal and ugly.

 

What we have now is a lot better, because of government programs.

 

 

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Re: Why There Are Government Programs

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Message 56 of 127

@Richva wrote:

There are government programs because it is the most efficient way to provide needed services to those in our society in need. 


Right. No profit built in.

 

And often it’s the most moral way to deliver services. Private prisons are horrible.

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Re: Why There Are Government Programs

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Message 57 of 127

@ChasKy53 wrote:


The topic is why government programs exist. The point is that government programs are necessary. Without them, there would be no military or any other government jobs for you and others to have been 'dependent' upon during your working years and now into your retirements. Those who relied on the government teat all of their lives shouldn't be knocking "government programs".


And those enjoying inflated salaries obtained by unions shouldn't be attacking those who have to depend on miniscule pay increases that doesn't keep pace with cost of living.

 

No one in government service is depending on government handouts, but earned it, probably more so than those who enjoyed inflated salaries working for automobile companies.  I'd like to have seen you dodging rockets for several hundred dollars a month.  I do believe you begrudge those that serve in government in any capacity.  Your problem...

 

And to get back on the topic away from attacking government employees by some, there are some areas of government programs dictated by the Constitution and many that are boondoggles created by politicians for patronage.


“Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself”. . . FDR
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Re: Why There Are Government Programs

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Message 58 of 127

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 

In your lame example - a retirement check is received as a result of it being part of an individual's compensation package with his employer - not his need.


Yes, that retirement check is earned as part of a compensation package,  just as his was...probably through more difficult circumstances than his...and not as much.  Liberals here apparently have a problem with civil servants and military receiving compensation for their work.  Yet no doubt they don't have a problem with their union assisted high pay and benefits.


The topic is why government programs exist. The point is that government programs are necessary. Without them, there would be no military or any other government jobs for you and others to have been 'dependent' upon during your working years and now into your retirements. Those who relied on the government teat all of their lives shouldn't be knocking "government programs".


There is NEED for government programs but what the left fails to understand is the limit of what is required services to the citizens. Military is needed to provide for the general defense, roads are needed to provide for access for travel for both personal, business, and defense, police are needed to provide safety, education is needed to provide education so we are advancing and not stagnating or degrading. You can probably think of other things I left out that are necessary but the left seems to know no end to the requests for services (that are not needed) as well as the requests for more taxes (on others) to pay for those services.

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Re: Why There Are Government Programs

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Message 59 of 127

There are government programs because it is the most efficient way to provide needed services to those in our society in need. 

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Re: Why There Are Government Programs

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Message 60 of 127

@ChasKy53 wrote:

 

In your lame example - a retirement check is received as a result of it being part of an individual's compensation package with his employer - not his need.


Without "government programs" retired government workers wouldn't have had jobs and would have no retirement ......... both paid for by the taxpayers.

 

By the way .......... if you don't "need" your retirement, send the checks back.


Apparently you believe that anyone employed by the government should do so without compensation or a retirement program.  All this while those working and retiring from private industry (GM) receives good paychecks and good retirement benefits.

 

Government employees earn their compensation just the same in the non-government world.  Consumers pays your salary just as taxpayers does ours. 


“Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself”. . . FDR
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