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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 91 of 176

@rk9152 wrote:

 


True, and President Trump honored his commitment to the miners to undo the Imperial decree of Obama - period.


Show us what the "Imperial decree" is that you keep speaking of, you have thus far not been able to show what that is. Show us how that will create jobs in the coal industry. Doing that would be part of an "adult discussion".


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 92 of 176

@rk9152 wrote:

 


The subject is the status of the coal industry and President Trump's honoring of his campaign commitment to undo the Imperial writs of the previous Administration. It has nothing to do with an attack on the concept of a private sector economy.

 

But that is an interesting topic. Why not start one on abolishing the private sector and instituting some sort of "People's Coal Company" and maybe a "People's Car Company".


Be honest ................ the only thing that Trump has done in reference to coal has been to now allow the coal industry to dump it's sludge into our waterways. Show differently if you can ............... be specific.


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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 93 of 176

@Richva wrote:

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@afisher wrote:

    Indies climb inside the clown car and essentially say that coal workers are too stupid to learn new skills that can be used in their own community.   Weirdly, the GOP et al have embraced the idea of the small mom / pop small business - or so they say.   

 


   

--

Not necessarily 'stupid' but lacking the educational background.  So what is suggested they be retrained in? 


I suspect the coal miners are an excellent test case for the  future of America.  Coal mining  and any kind of manufacturiing are the buggy whip industries of this century.   Bankers, accountants, and physicians are the next buggy whip industries.

 

These are not stupid people, they are desperate people how will they pay for their families as they are retrained? Where will they have to move in order to find the "new" jobs? What will happen to the assets they acquired in coal country like a house?

 

From their point of view, the perfect solution is to sign an executive order restoring their jobs. Something like signing an executive order requiring a buggy whip to be installed on every automobile.

 

Coal is dead. Trump knows coal is dead.  It does not stop him from saying "Know what that means?  Your going back to work!" when he knows it does not.  

 

 


I think that the answer is subsidies to the coal industry or someone else to invest in alternative energy sources like solar, wind, and tidal turbines. Factories for building these items could be located in the old coal mining areas and could create more jobs than were lost, lifting an entire region of the country out of poverty. America needs desperately to take the lead in developing alternative energy sources. Someone else will if we don't.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 94 of 176

@rk9152 wrote:

 


Simply keeping a campaign promise to restore jobs taken away via Imperial decree. No connection with jobs in other industries.


Please show the "Imperial decree" you loosely speak of and please show documentation of jobs lost because of it. You have failed to provide either so far.


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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 95 of 176

@rk9152 wrote:

The subject is the status of the coal industry and President Trump's honoring of his campaign commitment to undo the Imperial writs of the previous Administration. It has nothing to do with an attack on the concept of a private sector economy.

 

But that is an interesting topic. Why not start one on abolishing the private sector and instituting some sort of "People's Coal Company" and maybe a "People's Car Company".


   

Actually, I think the topic was Trump's inability to bring back prosperity to the coal industry and its miners.  If so, I have not seen any analysis or any link to an analysis that the economic conditions of the energy industry would allow him to do that. If that is true, then Trump is either very poorly informed or lying though his teeth. 

 

I have yet to understand why a society cannot limit the amount of pollution it will accept without being called socialist or communist.   The best replacement for the EPA would be a simple statement "You may not pollute the air I  breath, the water I drink, or the land I plow" and have industry adhere to it.  By the way, if the industry is using coal generation, they cannot adhere to it regardless. 

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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 96 of 176

@Olderscout66 wrote:

The last time Republicans tried to use Capitalism to improve things in "coal country" was when they gave YUGE tax incentives and subsidities to companies who agreed to set up shop in Harlan County. People had reasonable jobs, were all putting money into the Company retirement program, and things were peachy until the tax holiday expired and the companies took the jobs AND they employee pension fund to Mexico.

 

Whatever they come up with this time, rest assured it will turn out to be another of their schemes to redistribute wealth from the bottom to the top, and no, it will not be "wonderful", it will be SAD.


The subject is coal miners keeping their jobs. If you want to discuss some alternative to the free market, why not start a topic?

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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 97 of 176

@myexper wrote:

@NerdyMom wrote:

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@afisher wrote:

    Indies climb inside the clown car and essentially say that coal workers are too stupid to learn new skills that can be used in their own community.   Weirdly, the GOP et al have embraced the idea of the small mom / pop small business - or so they say.   

 


   

--

Not necessarily 'stupid' but lacking the educational background.  So what is suggested they be retrained in? 


Hillary had wanted to invest in existing programs like the 33-6-3 in West Virginia.   33 hours of work, 6 hours of higher ed, and 3 hours of life skills training a week.   That organization (Coalfield) has put coal miners to work in different industries like building green housing, other real estate development, and other types of work that are specific to the natural resources of the particular area. 

 

She also mentioned that Google was opening a data center on a closed coal mine in Alabama. Google could take advantage of the existing power grid there.  Now, that type of repurposing is totally over my paygrade.  But other people know how to do that.   

 


Yup ...... While Hillary offered REAL SOLUTIONS, Trump could only offer HOLLOW PROMISES!


Exactly what did Hillary do for the coal miners?

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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 98 of 176

@myexper wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

Only Republicans would consider "bringing back" an industry that has been dying since 1923 and killing Americans even longer.

 

In counties that mine coal, the poverty rate is 17% higher than the National Average and in counties with coal fired power plants, average income is 15% lower. So much for any possible economic benefit to workers.

 

According to an article in FORBES, coal kills 13,000 Americans every year from pollution and accidents. Der lyingTrumper wants to eliminate the controls on how much a coal fired power plant can pollute which will add ZERO jobs and kill a lot more Americans, but will also jack profits for the owners astronomically.

 

So a history of higher poverty and lower wages accompanies coal mining and power plants, and Der lying Trumper also thinks the death toll should increase so owners can make more money - and this is making America Great HOW?

 

By the way, deaths from Nuclear Energy are still at ZERO in the USA, and wages are significantly higher and poverty lower in counties with Nuclear power plants. If we want to make things better, let's do it with 21st century technology and leave the 18th century to the historians.


I think you misunderstand. The idea is not to bring back a dying industry. it is to let it dies a natural death when the time comes like the buggy whip as opposed to killing it by Imperial Decree.

 


"I think (YOU) misunderstand".  Referring to his EO on coal, Trump stated “new era in American energy.”


Sure, a "new era" in which free market capitalism determines the fate of an industry - not (once again) Imperial decree.


Nope .... there was nothing about "capitalism" nor any "Imperial decree" as you falsely stated.

 

So now you're putting your words into Trump's comments.

 

Trump clearly stated "new era in American energy" .... and NOT the words you fallaciously inserted into his comment!

 

And the "fate" of the coal "industry" was "determined" long before any of President Obama's EOs.

As such, Trump's EO is as obsolete as the coal industry itself and only renders false promise to coal miners.


True, and President Trump honored his commitment to the miners to undo the Imperial decree of Obama - period.

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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 99 of 176

@myexper wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@myexper wrote:


"Clean air" refers to environmental issues in general. But back to coal, coal does heat homes, coal does create fuel for those electric cars.

It doesn't directly power them.

I'm not sure of your point. First of all, coal does directly heat some homes. And if coal is burned to create the electricity for the electric car........without that coal????? It would appear that coal does, in fact, provide some power for them.

How nice ..... but does nothing to refute the fact that coal does not DIRECTLY power them .... as I originally stated, but you continue to convolute!

I have heard of no proposal regardin.g steam locomotives. Possibly you could add validity to that comment

I did when I initially made the comment relative to Trump's desire to set our country backwards. You evaded that.

Backwards to undo the Obama EOs is certainly not back to the steam engine. So, your point is.......??

It could if Trump seeks to contrive a demand for coal.

I have not heard of such a proposal. Can you substantiate your thought?

And, the evasion is....????

The validity I provided, but you still evade.

Again - what is the evasion, not your so called "validity""  but my  "evasion"?

Again - Your evasion to the validity I provided.

You asked for validity. I provided it. But you choose to evade it!


 


It's been a pleasure, as always.

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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 100 of 176

@afisher wrote:

    Indies climb inside the clown car and essentially say that coal workers are too stupid to learn new skills that can be used in their own community.   Weirdly, the GOP et al have embraced the idea of the small mom / pop small business - or so they say.   

 

     If there was any insight farther than a keyboard, one could use logic that many in the dying coal industry have serious health issues and are resorting to disability for their income.    How about there be a real effort ( and yes, some non-work related financing) to a) improve the health of workers and then b) re-train people with skills related to what they did in the mines or retrain them to work in what they are interested in.   

 

     People here seem to want to ignore that many of the miners have been skrewed by Corporations that go thru bankruptcy and then being sold to another company, rinse repeat so that many have no pension on which to subsist.     Are people now just willing to throw these people into the trash heap- because spending a dime that might impair a shareholder check is no being sold by some as a sin.    


The subject is the status of the coal industry and President Trump's honoring of his campaign commitment to undo the Imperial writs of the previous Administration. It has nothing to do with an attack on the concept of a private sector economy.

 

But that is an interesting topic. Why not start one on abolishing the private sector and instituting some sort of "People's Coal Company" and maybe a "People's Car Company".

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