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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 71 of 176

@rk9152 wrote:

I don't believe that a film festival is needed to let us know two things, 1) we need an alternative to fossil fuel; and. 2) the free market is producing the alternatives.

 


 3) Trump wants to advance the production of coal, violating your items 1) and 2).

DUMP TRUMP AND DITCH MITCH TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!
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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 72 of 176

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@Richva wrote:



 Now sure about the purpose of the festival (Look over there!)


--

Of course the purpose of the producers of documentaries is to present their views to convince others.  Apparenlty several are saying to look elsewhere and ignore that man behind the curtain. 


The question any documenary buff must answer is whether the film proves its point by presenting facts and whether those facts fit the industry or one situation.  It appears this film did.  

 

Having a point of view is not bad but having no facts to back it up is bad. Look at Fox News. 

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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 73 of 176

@Richva wrote:



 Now sure about the purpose of the festival (Look over there!)


--

Of course the purpose of the producers of documentaries is to present their views to convince others.  Apparenlty several are saying to look elsewhere and ignore that man behind the curtain. 

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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 74 of 176

@rk9152 wrote:

I don't believe that a film festival is needed to let us know two things, 1) we need an alternative to fossil fuel; and. 2) the free market is producing the alternatives.


Well, the purpose of the film was to document the environmental, health, and economic degradation that coal production and use causes.  Now sure about the purpose of the festival (Look over there!)

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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 75 of 176

@lk152 wrote:

Last year at the Cleveland International Film Festival, I saw a great documentary titled Cheshire Ohio. It is about the effects of living near a coal fired power plant. Here is the story about this movie and what happened. 

 

The small town is located on the Ohio River in Gallia County, one of the rural counties in southeastern Ohio. It is also one of the poorest counties in Ohio. American Electric Power operates two giant coal fired electric power plants in Cheshire. Those power plants are one of the largest employers in the county. 

 

Around 2000, many residents of Cheshire began developing cancers related to breathing in polluted air caused by the burning of coal at the power plants. So some sued the company. In a settlement, the company decided to buy the town and pay all the residents for their property. 

 

So this small town became a ghost town. But it didn't end there. People outside of the buy out area were still getting sick and so were employees who had the jobs of driving trucks of coal ash from the plant to the landfill or dump for the ash left over after the coal was burnt. It seemed that the fine particles of the fly ash was causing cancer among the men driving the truck as well as their spouses. 

 

This is a link to a review of the movie:

 

https://moviemovesme.com/2016/10/22/documentary-review-cheshire-ohio-2016/

 

From that review:

 

Eve Morgenstern’s film reveals some shocking facts, that, I am afraid is relevant for any country or a little city that has the power plant next door. It is about how the government or big corporations try to cover up the damage they bring with their plans, as money, and not the health of people was their primarily concern. In the end, some of you may tell but the power plants are very important for the electricity to be produced, and you might be right.

 

After all, we all want to surf internet and watch our TV programs. But the question, what is better, to sit in the dark and still be able to inhale a fresh air, or to live next to the power plant and inhale an enormous amount of acid that will slowly burn our lungs? Indeed, it destroys us, and will bring a serious damage to our planet. It is just a matter of time, I hope, none of us will live that long to see the devastating result.

 

This is one more reason why coal has to be replaced as a source of energy. It is not only dangerous for those who mine the coal, but for those who have to work around coal fired power plants and where coal is burned. 


I don't believe that a film festival is needed to let us know two things, 1) we need an alternative to fossil fuel; and. 2) the free market is producing the alternatives.

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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 76 of 176

Last year at the Cleveland International Film Festival, I saw a great documentary titled Cheshire Ohio. It is about the effects of living near a coal fired power plant. Here is the story about this movie and what happened. 

 

The small town is located on the Ohio River in Gallia County, one of the rural counties in southeastern Ohio. It is also one of the poorest counties in Ohio. American Electric Power operates two giant coal fired electric power plants in Cheshire. Those power plants are one of the largest employers in the county. 

 

Around 2000, many residents of Cheshire began developing cancers related to breathing in polluted air caused by the burning of coal at the power plants. So some sued the company. In a settlement, the company decided to buy the town and pay all the residents for their property. 

 

So this small town became a ghost town. But it didn't end there. People outside of the buy out area were still getting sick and so were employees who had the jobs of driving trucks of coal ash from the plant to the landfill or dump for the ash left over after the coal was burnt. It seemed that the fine particles of the fly ash was causing cancer among the men driving the truck as well as their spouses. 

 

This is a link to a review of the movie:

 

https://moviemovesme.com/2016/10/22/documentary-review-cheshire-ohio-2016/

 

From that review:

 

Eve Morgenstern’s film reveals some shocking facts, that, I am afraid is relevant for any country or a little city that has the power plant next door. It is about how the government or big corporations try to cover up the damage they bring with their plans, as money, and not the health of people was their primarily concern. In the end, some of you may tell but the power plants are very important for the electricity to be produced, and you might be right.

 

After all, we all want to surf internet and watch our TV programs. But the question, what is better, to sit in the dark and still be able to inhale a fresh air, or to live next to the power plant and inhale an enormous amount of acid that will slowly burn our lungs? Indeed, it destroys us, and will bring a serious damage to our planet. It is just a matter of time, I hope, none of us will live that long to see the devastating result.

 

This is one more reason why coal has to be replaced as a source of energy. It is not only dangerous for those who mine the coal, but for those who have to work around coal fired power plants and where coal is burned. 

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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 77 of 176

@rk9152 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

 



@rk9152 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

Only Republicans would consider "bringing back" an industry that has been dying since 1923 and killing Americans even longer.

 

In counties that mine coal, the poverty rate is 17% higher than the National Average and in counties with coal fired power plants, average income is 15% lower. So much for any possible economic benefit to workers.

 

According to an article in FORBES, coal kills 13,000 Americans every year from pollution and accidents. Der lyingTrumper wants to eliminate the controls on how much a coal fired power plant can pollute which will add ZERO jobs and kill a lot more Americans, but will also jack profits for the owners astronomically.

 

So a history of higher poverty and lower wages accompanies coal mining and power plants, and Der lying Trumper also thinks the death toll should increase so owners can make more money - and this is making America Great HOW?

 

By the way, deaths from Nuclear Energy are still at ZERO in the USA, and wages are significantly higher and poverty lower in counties with Nuclear power plants. If we want to make things better, let's do it with 21st century technology and leave the 18th century to the historians.


I think you misunderstand. The idea is not to bring back a dying industry. it is to let it dies a natural death when the time comes like the buggy whip as opposed to killing it by Imperial Decree.

 


"I think (YOU) misunderstand".  Referring to his EO on coal, Trump stated “new era in American energy.”


Sure, a "new era" in which free market capitalism determines the fate of an industry - not (once again) Imperial decree.


Nope .... there was nothing about "capitalism" nor any "Imperial decree" as you falsely stated.

 

So now you're putting your words into Trump's comments.

 

Trump clearly stated "new era in American energy" .... and NOT the words you fallaciously inserted into his comment!

 

And the "fate" of the coal "industry" was "determined" long before any of President Obama's EOs.

As such, Trump's EO is as obsolete as the coal industry itself and only renders false promise to coal miners.


True, and President Trump honored his commitment to the miners to undo the Imperial decree of Obama - period.


Nope!

Again ..... Trump did not state any "Imperial decree".

Trump clearly stated "new era in American energy", absurdly implying that coal was going to become a new source of energy in America.


It really isn't hard to understand.

Yup .... You can't resurrect jobs for an industry that's been collapsing for decades .... and continuing to collapse with little to no demand for the product of that industry .... quite easy "to understand"!

 

My point from the get-go was that he merely fulfilled a campaign promise regarding the effected miners.

A hollow and most disingenuous promise as Trump cannot resurrect jobs for an industry with little to no demand for its product.

 

If you want to fight about something else, start a topic and we'll see what happens.

Relying on known facts to support a position hardly constitutes a desire "to fight",  as you fallaciously accused of me!


 


This issue and all it's real aspects have been thoroughly discussed. I prefer to not play the "fight game" preferring to discuss over squabbling.

 

Ta-ta.....


Making false accusations is hardly "discussing".  But it is a means to start a "fight game".

DUMP TRUMP AND DITCH MITCH TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!
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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 78 of 176

@myexper wrote:

 



@rk9152 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

Only Republicans would consider "bringing back" an industry that has been dying since 1923 and killing Americans even longer.

 

In counties that mine coal, the poverty rate is 17% higher than the National Average and in counties with coal fired power plants, average income is 15% lower. So much for any possible economic benefit to workers.

 

According to an article in FORBES, coal kills 13,000 Americans every year from pollution and accidents. Der lyingTrumper wants to eliminate the controls on how much a coal fired power plant can pollute which will add ZERO jobs and kill a lot more Americans, but will also jack profits for the owners astronomically.

 

So a history of higher poverty and lower wages accompanies coal mining and power plants, and Der lying Trumper also thinks the death toll should increase so owners can make more money - and this is making America Great HOW?

 

By the way, deaths from Nuclear Energy are still at ZERO in the USA, and wages are significantly higher and poverty lower in counties with Nuclear power plants. If we want to make things better, let's do it with 21st century technology and leave the 18th century to the historians.


I think you misunderstand. The idea is not to bring back a dying industry. it is to let it dies a natural death when the time comes like the buggy whip as opposed to killing it by Imperial Decree.

 


"I think (YOU) misunderstand".  Referring to his EO on coal, Trump stated “new era in American energy.”


Sure, a "new era" in which free market capitalism determines the fate of an industry - not (once again) Imperial decree.


Nope .... there was nothing about "capitalism" nor any "Imperial decree" as you falsely stated.

 

So now you're putting your words into Trump's comments.

 

Trump clearly stated "new era in American energy" .... and NOT the words you fallaciously inserted into his comment!

 

And the "fate" of the coal "industry" was "determined" long before any of President Obama's EOs.

As such, Trump's EO is as obsolete as the coal industry itself and only renders false promise to coal miners.


True, and President Trump honored his commitment to the miners to undo the Imperial decree of Obama - period.


Nope!

Again ..... Trump did not state any "Imperial decree".

Trump clearly stated "new era in American energy", absurdly implying that coal was going to become a new source of energy in America.


It really isn't hard to understand.

Yup .... You can't resurrect jobs for an industry that's been collapsing for decades .... and continuing to collapse with little to no demand for the product of that industry .... quite easy "to understand"!

 

My point from the get-go was that he merely fulfilled a campaign promise regarding the effected miners.

A hollow and most disingenuous promise as Trump cannot resurrect jobs for an industry with little to no demand for its product.

 

If you want to fight about something else, start a topic and we'll see what happens.

Relying on known facts to support a position hardly constitutes a desire "to fight",  as you fallaciously accused of me!


 


This issue and all it's real aspects have been thoroughly discussed. I prefer to not play the "fight game" preferring to discuss over squabbling.

 

Ta-ta.....

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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 79 of 176

 



@rk9152 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

Only Republicans would consider "bringing back" an industry that has been dying since 1923 and killing Americans even longer.

 

In counties that mine coal, the poverty rate is 17% higher than the National Average and in counties with coal fired power plants, average income is 15% lower. So much for any possible economic benefit to workers.

 

According to an article in FORBES, coal kills 13,000 Americans every year from pollution and accidents. Der lyingTrumper wants to eliminate the controls on how much a coal fired power plant can pollute which will add ZERO jobs and kill a lot more Americans, but will also jack profits for the owners astronomically.

 

So a history of higher poverty and lower wages accompanies coal mining and power plants, and Der lying Trumper also thinks the death toll should increase so owners can make more money - and this is making America Great HOW?

 

By the way, deaths from Nuclear Energy are still at ZERO in the USA, and wages are significantly higher and poverty lower in counties with Nuclear power plants. If we want to make things better, let's do it with 21st century technology and leave the 18th century to the historians.


I think you misunderstand. The idea is not to bring back a dying industry. it is to let it dies a natural death when the time comes like the buggy whip as opposed to killing it by Imperial Decree.

 


"I think (YOU) misunderstand".  Referring to his EO on coal, Trump stated “new era in American energy.”


Sure, a "new era" in which free market capitalism determines the fate of an industry - not (once again) Imperial decree.


Nope .... there was nothing about "capitalism" nor any "Imperial decree" as you falsely stated.

 

So now you're putting your words into Trump's comments.

 

Trump clearly stated "new era in American energy" .... and NOT the words you fallaciously inserted into his comment!

 

And the "fate" of the coal "industry" was "determined" long before any of President Obama's EOs.

As such, Trump's EO is as obsolete as the coal industry itself and only renders false promise to coal miners.


True, and President Trump honored his commitment to the miners to undo the Imperial decree of Obama - period.


Nope!

Again ..... Trump did not state any "Imperial decree".

Trump clearly stated "new era in American energy", absurdly implying that coal was going to become a new source of energy in America.


It really isn't hard to understand.

Yup .... You can't resurrect jobs for an industry that's been collapsing for decades .... and continuing to collapse with little to no demand for the product of that industry .... quite easy "to understand"!

 

My point from the get-go was that he merely fulfilled a campaign promise regarding the effected miners.

A hollow and most disingenuous promise as Trump cannot resurrect jobs for an industry with little to no demand for its product.

 

If you want to fight about something else, start a topic and we'll see what happens.

Relying on known facts to support a position hardly constitutes a desire "to fight",  as you fallaciously accused of me!


 

DUMP TRUMP AND DITCH MITCH TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!
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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 80 of 176

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

 

I don't buy the philosophy that we need to change as much as there is the one of live and let live.  Too many are attempting to force change on others.  That is what the soviet communistic system was all about where everyone has to fit into one niche without the individuality that made this country great. 

 


I understand the live and let live ideal.  But at what point does another person's right, or a company's right, to do as they please infringe on my rights?  Or anyone else's?   Do I have a right to air, soil (food), and water that has not been contaminated with lead and arsenic from the various stages of coal production?  If not, why not?  If so, what do we do as a society to protect me and others from the waste of coal production and use?  And do we rely on business to protect us?  Or do we rely on government?  If neither of these is an option, what other options does an individual of average means have to access clean food, water, and air?   

 

 

 

 

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