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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 81 of 176

@myexper wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

@NerdyMom wrote:

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@afisher wrote:

    Indies climb inside the clown car and essentially say that coal workers are too stupid to learn new skills that can be used in their own community.   Weirdly, the GOP et al have embraced the idea of the small mom / pop small business - or so they say.   

 


   

--

Not necessarily 'stupid' but lacking the educational background.  So what is suggested they be retrained in? 


Hillary had wanted to invest in existing programs like the 33-6-3 in West Virginia.   33 hours of work, 6 hours of higher ed, and 3 hours of life skills training a week.   That organization (Coalfield) has put coal miners to work in different industries like building green housing, other real estate development, and other types of work that are specific to the natural resources of the particular area. 

 

She also mentioned that Google was opening a data center on a closed coal mine in Alabama. Google could take advantage of the existing power grid there.  Now, that type of repurposing is totally over my paygrade.  But other people know how to do that.   

 


Yup ...... While Hillary offered REAL SOLUTIONS, Trump could only offer HOLLOW PROMISES!


Exactly what did Hillary do for the coal miners?


Offered them REAL SOLUTIONS.  But instead, they chose Trump's HOLLOW PROMISES, disabling Hillary from helping them.

So the REAL question is: Exactly what did Trump's hollow promises do for the coal miners ..... other than render false hope for jobs in a dying industry?


And just what were those REAL SOLUTIONS????

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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 82 of 176

@myexper wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

Only Republicans would consider "bringing back" an industry that has been dying since 1923 and killing Americans even longer.

 

In counties that mine coal, the poverty rate is 17% higher than the National Average and in counties with coal fired power plants, average income is 15% lower. So much for any possible economic benefit to workers.

 

According to an article in FORBES, coal kills 13,000 Americans every year from pollution and accidents. Der lyingTrumper wants to eliminate the controls on how much a coal fired power plant can pollute which will add ZERO jobs and kill a lot more Americans, but will also jack profits for the owners astronomically.

 

So a history of higher poverty and lower wages accompanies coal mining and power plants, and Der lying Trumper also thinks the death toll should increase so owners can make more money - and this is making America Great HOW?

 

By the way, deaths from Nuclear Energy are still at ZERO in the USA, and wages are significantly higher and poverty lower in counties with Nuclear power plants. If we want to make things better, let's do it with 21st century technology and leave the 18th century to the historians.


I think you misunderstand. The idea is not to bring back a dying industry. it is to let it dies a natural death when the time comes like the buggy whip as opposed to killing it by Imperial Decree.

 


"I think (YOU) misunderstand".  Referring to his EO on coal, Trump stated “new era in American energy.”


Sure, a "new era" in which free market capitalism determines the fate of an industry - not (once again) Imperial decree.


Nope .... there was nothing about "capitalism" nor any "Imperial decree" as you falsely stated.

 

So now you're putting your words into Trump's comments.

 

Trump clearly stated "new era in American energy" .... and NOT the words you fallaciously inserted into his comment!

 

And the "fate" of the coal "industry" was "determined" long before any of President Obama's EOs.

As such, Trump's EO is as obsolete as the coal industry itself and only renders false promise to coal miners.


True, and President Trump honored his commitment to the miners to undo the Imperial decree of Obama - period.


Nope!

Again ..... Trump did not state any "Imperial decree".

Trump clearly stated "new era in American energy", absurdly implying that coal was going to become a new source of energy in America.


It really isn't hard to understand. My point from the get-go was that he merely fulfilled a campaign promise regarding the effected miners. If you want to fight about something else, start a topic and we'll see what happens.

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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 83 of 176

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 


True, and President Trump honored his commitment to the miners to undo the Imperial decree of Obama - period.


Show us what the "Imperial decree" is that you keep speaking of, you have thus far not been able to show what that is. Show us how that will create jobs in the coal industry. Doing that would be part of an "adult discussion".


It should be fairly obvious - he undid Obama actions and the left has been whining about it. If one does not know what he undid - what could they possibly be whining about??

 

As to creating jobs - a careful reading of posts would indicate that no one has claimed that. What is that, "look over there", "cats", "straw man" or some new iteration?

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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 84 of 176

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 


The subject is the status of the coal industry and President Trump's honoring of his campaign commitment to undo the Imperial writs of the previous Administration. It has nothing to do with an attack on the concept of a private sector economy.

 

But that is an interesting topic. Why not start one on abolishing the private sector and instituting some sort of "People's Coal Company" and maybe a "People's Car Company".


Be honest ................ the only thing that Trump has done in reference to coal has been to now allow the coal industry to dump it's sludge into our waterways. Show differently if you can ............... be specific.


He made a campaign promise. He fulfilled that promise. He did so by undoing a few Obama orders. I hope that is specific enough for you.

 

I am surprised at the request for specificity. All the complainers on this board seems to know specifically what he did.

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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 85 of 176

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

The subject is the status of the coal industry and President Trump's honoring of his campaign commitment to undo the Imperial writs of the previous Administration. It has nothing to do with an attack on the concept of a private sector economy.

 

But that is an interesting topic. Why not start one on abolishing the private sector and instituting some sort of "People's Coal Company" and maybe a "People's Car Company".


   

Actually, I think the topic was Trump's inability to bring back prosperity to the coal industry and its miners.  

 

And as I am sure you know, I have agreed with that. My only objection is not letting the technology run it's course. 

 

Yes, clean air is important. If we were to cease all burning of fossil fuel, we could really clean things up. But, as I am sure you will agree, that is simply not practical right now - it is a matter of balance. It is that point of balance that is at the heart of this discussion.

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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 86 of 176

@NerdyMom wrote:



 But we are all going to have to get more comfortable with the need to change.  

 


--

Change is scary for everyone, no matter what the circumstances.  I looked upon it as an opportunity to improve myself.  Even my parents left the area for Texas later and a lot better life that they enjoyed until they died. 

 

I don't buy the philosophy that we need to change as much as there is the one of live and let live.  Too many are attempting to force change on others.  That is what the soviet communistic system was all about where everyone has to fit into one niche without the individuality that made this country great. 

 

One good thing I remember about the people in the area where I grew up was the individuality and independence of the people.  Even my grandfather refused to vote for Cordell Hull, who was a cousin, because he didn't agree with his politics.  There are many stories in the family of ancestors who didn't hesitate to go against the social grain of the times. 

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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 87 of 176

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@NerdyMom wrote:

Hillary had wanted to invest in existing programs like the 33-6-3 in West Virginia.

 

I know people don't like change.  It's scary.  Even good change is scary.   But that's really all that the future holds now, IMO.   My dad's generation held one job for 30 years and retired with a real pension.

 

 


--

She had the chance while Bill was President, so why didn't she get him to do something like that then?  You are referencing her campaign rhetoric, and we have found that's all it was with the major candidates.  My personal opinion that if Kennedy had served out his term [and potential second term] he would have done much for those areas.

 

I've also held one job mostly and made the choice to retire at 20 years with a real pension and all the trimmings.  After that I went to work for a major corporation and retired with another real pension, but without the trimmings.

 

I grew up in middle Tennessee on the Cumberland Plateau bordering the Appalachians and jobs were scarce and no future.  My friends were from sharecropper families, and up until the mid 1950's the area remained in the backwaters.  Shirt and boot factories was the only major industries around.  I left to see the world with Uncle Sam and never looked back remembering the old men chewing tobacco and whittling on the courthouse steps on Saturdays.  I didn't want any part of that. No doubt that's the way it still is in coal country now.

 

I doubt that the older adult population would be that trainable, but from what I've seen with industry moving in it brings people from outside the area for the jobs, not the locals.  It would be a question if the younger generation would be open to training into employable skills.

 

I do have to wonder how many in those areas and affected by the environment is participating in this type discussion.  I have to believe that most of us are removed from it.


I'm removed.  I got myself out of it.   But my family's from West Virginia and most of the men were coal miners.  Most were alcoholics, too, FWIW.  Not saying there's a correlation.   But now the kids are dying from heroin.  So your point is taken, about being removed from it.  I know I am.  I got myself out of it.  But it's also why I said I know that change is scary.   Because it is.  I'm empathizing here.  But we are all going to have to get more comfortable with the need to change.  

 

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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 88 of 176

@rk9152 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

@NerdyMom wrote:

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

@afisher wrote:

    Indies climb inside the clown car and essentially say that coal workers are too stupid to learn new skills that can be used in their own community.   Weirdly, the GOP et al have embraced the idea of the small mom / pop small business - or so they say.   

 


   

--

Not necessarily 'stupid' but lacking the educational background.  So what is suggested they be retrained in? 


Hillary had wanted to invest in existing programs like the 33-6-3 in West Virginia.   33 hours of work, 6 hours of higher ed, and 3 hours of life skills training a week.   That organization (Coalfield) has put coal miners to work in different industries like building green housing, other real estate development, and other types of work that are specific to the natural resources of the particular area. 

 

She also mentioned that Google was opening a data center on a closed coal mine in Alabama. Google could take advantage of the existing power grid there.  Now, that type of repurposing is totally over my paygrade.  But other people know how to do that.   

 


Yup ...... While Hillary offered REAL SOLUTIONS, Trump could only offer HOLLOW PROMISES!


Exactly what did Hillary do for the coal miners?


Offered them REAL SOLUTIONS.  But instead, they chose Trump's HOLLOW PROMISES, disabling Hillary from helping them.

So the REAL question is: Exactly what did Trump's hollow promises do for the coal miners ..... other than render false hope for jobs in a dying industry?

DUMP TRUMP AND DITCH MITCH TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!
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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 89 of 176

@rk9152 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@myexper wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

Only Republicans would consider "bringing back" an industry that has been dying since 1923 and killing Americans even longer.

 

In counties that mine coal, the poverty rate is 17% higher than the National Average and in counties with coal fired power plants, average income is 15% lower. So much for any possible economic benefit to workers.

 

According to an article in FORBES, coal kills 13,000 Americans every year from pollution and accidents. Der lyingTrumper wants to eliminate the controls on how much a coal fired power plant can pollute which will add ZERO jobs and kill a lot more Americans, but will also jack profits for the owners astronomically.

 

So a history of higher poverty and lower wages accompanies coal mining and power plants, and Der lying Trumper also thinks the death toll should increase so owners can make more money - and this is making America Great HOW?

 

By the way, deaths from Nuclear Energy are still at ZERO in the USA, and wages are significantly higher and poverty lower in counties with Nuclear power plants. If we want to make things better, let's do it with 21st century technology and leave the 18th century to the historians.


I think you misunderstand. The idea is not to bring back a dying industry. it is to let it dies a natural death when the time comes like the buggy whip as opposed to killing it by Imperial Decree.

 


"I think (YOU) misunderstand".  Referring to his EO on coal, Trump stated “new era in American energy.”


Sure, a "new era" in which free market capitalism determines the fate of an industry - not (once again) Imperial decree.


Nope .... there was nothing about "capitalism" nor any "Imperial decree" as you falsely stated.

 

So now you're putting your words into Trump's comments.

 

Trump clearly stated "new era in American energy" .... and NOT the words you fallaciously inserted into his comment!

 

And the "fate" of the coal "industry" was "determined" long before any of President Obama's EOs.

As such, Trump's EO is as obsolete as the coal industry itself and only renders false promise to coal miners.


True, and President Trump honored his commitment to the miners to undo the Imperial decree of Obama - period.


Nope!

Again ..... Trump did not state any "Imperial decree".

Trump clearly stated "new era in American energy", absurdly implying that coal was going to become a new source of energy in America.

DUMP TRUMP AND DITCH MITCH TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!
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Re: Why Donald Trump Cannot Bring Back the Coal Industry

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Message 90 of 176

@rk9152 wrote:

 


The subject is coal miners keeping their jobs.


Then please show what the "Imperial decree" is that Trump did away with and show how doing so has or will create jobs in the coal industry. Without you doing that I don't see how we can have an adult discussion.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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