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Re: Why Climatology is Junk Science

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Cheers for @aruzinsky  - he finally located someone with a CV consistant with the debate on climate change.  Too bad Zwally's 2015 study (claiming the mass of antarctic ice in the east is increasing as fast as that in the west is decreasing making no overall change in the amount of ice) has been debunked.

 

Zwally used satelite measurments of the height of the snowpack which showed while the level in the west was dropping, in the east it was increasing because of increased snowfall. He also assumed, apparently incorrectly, that the density and therefore the mass of the new material in the east would be the same as the material being lost in the east.

 

The 2017 study published by Martin-Español, Bamber et al, used data from the Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment(GRACE) Satelight which measures changes in Earth's gravitational field that are caused by changes in mass. They found that the gains in East Antarctica were about three times smaller than those suggested in Zwally's 2015 study. From 2003 to 2013 they measured an annual rise of roughly five millimeters, which they think is equivalent to 57 billion metric tons of fresh new snow every year (vs Zwally's est of 147gmt). Because this gain is lower than the losses occurring in West Antarctica, they conclude the entire continent has made a net contribution to sea-level rise.

 

There's several reasons Zwally's estimate for East Antarctica may have been overstated, easiest to see is that the ice melting in the West was very old and had been compressed while the recent snowfall had not, making the lost volume in the West much more massive - difference between newfallen snow "too light to pack" and a two-day old accumulation, for an everyday example for anyone who had to shovel both types.

 

By the way, Zwally NEVER contended sea levels were not rising because of the melting icepack. He only suggested Antarctica was not as big a contributer to the rise as others had suggested.

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Re: Why Climatology is Junk Science

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Message 2 of 82

@aruzinsky wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@aruzinsky wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@aruzinsky wrote:

@williamb39198 wrote:

Perhaps deniers might want a practical approach to study....interview polar bears! Due to global warming, they are losing their ice flow platforms to hunt off of, and are wandering beaches in search of food including into towns and garbage pits. But just a warning! Might want to be careful, they’re really hungry, and they might eat ya!

 

deny all you want, it’s still happening


Interview penguins.

 


If you are implying that Antarctica is not losing ice, you would be wrong.

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/antarctica-is-losing-ice-twice-as-fast-as-anyone-thought

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190114161150.htm

 


https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/06/15/nasa-glaciologist-jay-zwally-puts-the-hammer-down-antarctica-...


It would be nice if you actually bothered to read what we are talking about.

According to the Zwally study"

A study published by Jay Zwally and his team on Oct. 30 (Zwally et al. 2015) has suggested that until 2008 there might have been a bigger increase in ice on East Antarctica than there is a decrease in the west, meaning that total Antarctic land ice is increasing.

 

Also, this is what Zwally had to say in 2015, “When our paper came out, I was very careful to emphasize that this is in no way contradictory to the findings of the IPCC report or conclusions that climate change is a serious problem that we need to do something about,”

 

Notice the date he was talking about, and the fact he was only talking about part of the continent.

 

Now the newest research:

"The team focused on three regions: West Antarctica, East Antarctica and the Antarctic Peninsula. West Antarctic ice, which forms on the seabed, is directly affected by ocean temperatures, while the East Antarctic ice sheet, which sits on land, is primarily affected by air temperatures and more likely to increase due to snowfall.

The latter fed the idea that while West Antarctica might melt away in the future, East Antarctica’s ice accumulation could make up the difference — an argument that is sometimes used by climate change deniers.

This new study proves that isn’t true, said Princeton University geoscientist

Michael Oppenheimer, a coordinating lead author of the last United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report.

The findings dispel the idea that East Antarctica has been gaining enough ice from snowfall to cancel out losses in West Antarctica, Oppenheimer said, adding that at least in this era, East Antarctica just isn’t in the ball game when it comes to counterbalancing West Antarctica.

 

 


The IPCC is corrupt.  I will not take their word for anything.


The last desperate attempt from a climate denier who cannot support their position.  You are going to have to explain how you know the IPCC is corrupt.  I will save you some time, if you are going to mention climategate, it has already been debunked.  What about Zwally's own comment?  The team that conducted the research is from Leeds University and was a team of 83 international scientists.  Speaking of corrupt, why don't you look up both Anthony Watts and Michael Bastasch (the one who wrote the piece you referenced).  Neither one is a scientist and both have agendas.

https://www.desmogblog.com/michael-bastasch

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Re: Why Climatology is Junk Science

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Message 3 of 82

@sp362 wrote:

@aruzinsky wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@aruzinsky wrote:

@williamb39198 wrote:

Perhaps deniers might want a practical approach to study....interview polar bears! Due to global warming, they are losing their ice flow platforms to hunt off of, and are wandering beaches in search of food including into towns and garbage pits. But just a warning! Might want to be careful, they’re really hungry, and they might eat ya!

 

deny all you want, it’s still happening


Interview penguins.

 


If you are implying that Antarctica is not losing ice, you would be wrong.

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/antarctica-is-losing-ice-twice-as-fast-as-anyone-thought

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190114161150.htm

 


https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/06/15/nasa-glaciologist-jay-zwally-puts-the-hammer-down-antarctica-...


It would be nice if you actually bothered to read what we are talking about.

According to the Zwally study"

A study published by Jay Zwally and his team on Oct. 30 (Zwally et al. 2015) has suggested that until 2008 there might have been a bigger increase in ice on East Antarctica than there is a decrease in the west, meaning that total Antarctic land ice is increasing.

 

Also, this is what Zwally had to say in 2015, “When our paper came out, I was very careful to emphasize that this is in no way contradictory to the findings of the IPCC report or conclusions that climate change is a serious problem that we need to do something about,”

 

Notice the date he was talking about, and the fact he was only talking about part of the continent.

 

Now the newest research:

"The team focused on three regions: West Antarctica, East Antarctica and the Antarctic Peninsula. West Antarctic ice, which forms on the seabed, is directly affected by ocean temperatures, while the East Antarctic ice sheet, which sits on land, is primarily affected by air temperatures and more likely to increase due to snowfall.

The latter fed the idea that while West Antarctica might melt away in the future, East Antarctica’s ice accumulation could make up the difference — an argument that is sometimes used by climate change deniers.

This new study proves that isn’t true, said Princeton University geoscientist

Michael Oppenheimer, a coordinating lead author of the last United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report.

The findings dispel the idea that East Antarctica has been gaining enough ice from snowfall to cancel out losses in West Antarctica, Oppenheimer said, adding that at least in this era, East Antarctica just isn’t in the ball game when it comes to counterbalancing West Antarctica.

 

 


The IPCC is corrupt.  I will not take their word for anything.

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Re: Why Climatology is Junk Science

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Message 4 of 82

@MsStretch wrote:

@jimc91 wrote:

Climate change has become a religion practiced by the left that seems only interested in redistributing the wealth of the westernized countries.  Look at the environment in the US today and outside of some very unique areas we have clean air and water.  I quit wasting my time with the folks that refuse to actually look at the techniques the "Paid for" so called scientist base their reporting on.


Oh my god! The bad, bad "left" are at their shenanigans again and now they've got every other country on this planet practicing the same "religion".  The horror of it all!

 

Puh-leeze.

 


Not only have the Progressives formed a secret alliance with over 90% of Climatoligists and the Governments of every single Democracy, they have demolished every single denier lie used to protect the money of the rich.

 

Poor Regressives, left with Conspiracy Theories leading nowhere and overwhelming evidence all their obstructionism has done is make the problem worse and moving the eventual global disaster from 50 years in the future to 20.

 

And all because the GOPerLords told them to deny everything Al Gore is associated with to keep people from realizing what a disaster it was for The Facist Five of SCOTUS to overturn the election in favor of the gutless draftdodging preppytwit jrbush who lied us into two never-ending wars.

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Re: Why Climatology is Junk Science

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Message 5 of 82

@sp362 

Thanks for the information. Global warming, as it implies, affects the whole Globe...even if some say everything is still the same, with no changes. 

 

@aruzinsky 

Wow, so are penguins storming villages in the Antarctic and eating trash?

 

There’s no denying, it’s happening

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Re: Why Climatology is Junk Science

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Message 6 of 82

@aruzinsky wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

@aruzinsky wrote:

@williamb39198 wrote:

Perhaps deniers might want a practical approach to study....interview polar bears! Due to global warming, they are losing their ice flow platforms to hunt off of, and are wandering beaches in search of food including into towns and garbage pits. But just a warning! Might want to be careful, they’re really hungry, and they might eat ya!

 

deny all you want, it’s still happening


Interview penguins.

 


If you are implying that Antarctica is not losing ice, you would be wrong.

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/antarctica-is-losing-ice-twice-as-fast-as-anyone-thought

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190114161150.htm

 


https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/06/15/nasa-glaciologist-jay-zwally-puts-the-hammer-down-antarctica-...


It would be nice if you actually bothered to read what we are talking about.

According to the Zwally study"

A study published by Jay Zwally and his team on Oct. 30 (Zwally et al. 2015) has suggested that until 2008 there might have been a bigger increase in ice on East Antarctica than there is a decrease in the west, meaning that total Antarctic land ice is increasing.

 

Also, this is what Zwally had to say in 2015, “When our paper came out, I was very careful to emphasize that this is in no way contradictory to the findings of the IPCC report or conclusions that climate change is a serious problem that we need to do something about,”

 

Notice the date he was talking about, and the fact he was only talking about part of the continent.

 

Now the newest research:

"The team focused on three regions: West Antarctica, East Antarctica and the Antarctic Peninsula. West Antarctic ice, which forms on the seabed, is directly affected by ocean temperatures, while the East Antarctic ice sheet, which sits on land, is primarily affected by air temperatures and more likely to increase due to snowfall.

The latter fed the idea that while West Antarctica might melt away in the future, East Antarctica’s ice accumulation could make up the difference — an argument that is sometimes used by climate change deniers.

This new study proves that isn’t true, said Princeton University geoscientist

Michael Oppenheimer, a coordinating lead author of the last United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report.

The findings dispel the idea that East Antarctica has been gaining enough ice from snowfall to cancel out losses in West Antarctica, Oppenheimer said, adding that at least in this era, East Antarctica just isn’t in the ball game when it comes to counterbalancing West Antarctica.

 

 

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Re: Why Climatology is Junk Science

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Message 7 of 82

@sp362 wrote:

@aruzinsky wrote:

@williamb39198 wrote:

Perhaps deniers might want a practical approach to study....interview polar bears! Due to global warming, they are losing their ice flow platforms to hunt off of, and are wandering beaches in search of food including into towns and garbage pits. But just a warning! Might want to be careful, they’re really hungry, and they might eat ya!

 

deny all you want, it’s still happening


Interview penguins.

 


If you are implying that Antarctica is not losing ice, you would be wrong.

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/antarctica-is-losing-ice-twice-as-fast-as-anyone-thought

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190114161150.htm

 


https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/06/15/nasa-glaciologist-jay-zwally-puts-the-hammer-down-antarctica-...

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Re: Why Climatology is Junk Science

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Message 8 of 82

@aruzinsky wrote:

@williamb39198 wrote:

Perhaps deniers might want a practical approach to study....interview polar bears! Due to global warming, they are losing their ice flow platforms to hunt off of, and are wandering beaches in search of food including into towns and garbage pits. But just a warning! Might want to be careful, they’re really hungry, and they might eat ya!

 

deny all you want, it’s still happening


Interview penguins.

 


With the ice caps at both poles melting faster than at any time since the earth was hit by the "dinosaur killer" meteor, that is getting more difficult to do every day. 

 

http://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/11036/20170326/sea-ice-record-breaking-decrease-in-south-pole-n...

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Re: Why Climatology is Junk Science

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Message 9 of 82

@aruzinsky wrote:

@williamb39198 wrote:

Perhaps deniers might want a practical approach to study....interview polar bears! Due to global warming, they are losing their ice flow platforms to hunt off of, and are wandering beaches in search of food including into towns and garbage pits. But just a warning! Might want to be careful, they’re really hungry, and they might eat ya!

 

deny all you want, it’s still happening


Interview penguins.

 


If you are implying that Antarctica is not losing ice, you would be wrong.

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/antarctica-is-losing-ice-twice-as-fast-as-anyone-thought

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190114161150.htm

 

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Re: Why Climatology is Junk Science

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Message 10 of 82

@williamb39198 wrote:

Perhaps deniers might want a practical approach to study....interview polar bears! Due to global warming, they are losing their ice flow platforms to hunt off of, and are wandering beaches in search of food including into towns and garbage pits. But just a warning! Might want to be careful, they’re really hungry, and they might eat ya!

 

deny all you want, it’s still happening


Interview penguins.

 

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