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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: White House: End Electric Car Subsidies

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Message 11 of 53

@CriticalThinking wrote:

If you watched 60 Minutes last night, you know that China is investing heavily in Electric Cars while Trump is investing heavily in coal mining. China wants to be the world leader in electric cars by 2025.


How is Trump "investing heavily in coal mining"?

 

I don't think either coal mining or electric cars should have a subsidy - do you, and why?

 

Since electric cars have to get "charged up", this comes from the power companies grid which is produced 62.9% by fossil fuels and 29.9% of that comes from coal!

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

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Re: White House: End Electric Car Subsidies

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Message 12 of 53

No surprise, pickup trucks are being sold at YUGE markups. The makers can do this partly because trucks are "macho" and partly because people understand that crash survivers are usually riding in the bigger vehicle, but mostly because we are busting our hump making gasoline as cheap as possible and giving businesses huge tax breaks for buying the top-end models while the rest of the World prices it to maintain and improve their roads and bridges AND to encourage use of the most fuel efficient vehicles available.

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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: White House: End Electric Car Subsidies

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Message 13 of 53

Lil' donny announced today that he is so upset hearing about Climate Change all the time that he is firing all the scientists working for the Government on the subject and replacing them with his own hand-picked people who may not be actual scientists, but donny assures us they will not be "biased" like the current group he's firing.

 

Anyone wonder why we have to hitch a ride from Russia to the ISC and have the only DECLINING life expectency among the World's Democracies?

HINT: Republicans all think like lil donny concerning science that gets in the way of profits or the ignorance of their base.

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Trusted Social Butterfly
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White House: End Electric Car Subsidies

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Message 14 of 53

If you watched 60 Minutes last night, you know that China is investing heavily in Electric Cars while Trump is investing heavily in coal mining. China wants to be the world leader in electric cars by 2025.

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Re: White House: End Electric Car Subsidies

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Message 15 of 53

Look no further than trump deems it more important to give an old donor buddy in Las Vegas hundreds of millions in tax breaks, than for the US to be the leader in clean energy technology or manufacturing. 

We know what trump’s priorities are, and they are treasonous, and unpatriotic. Thanks to all for bringing forward the truth on what is taking place in clean energy and many other areas that trump is undermining. He has convinced his base that he holds the truth, when in 

fact, he is a bag of lies!

 

Never Forget

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Treasured Social Butterfly
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Re: White House: End Electric Car Subsidies

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Message 16 of 53

The White House is led by a scientifically and technologically incompetent malignantly narcissistic moron/dolt with a life-long demonstrated inability to understand science and it's implications regarding what technologies have the greatest probability of future long term beneficial results for the nation and the world - instead the stupid and greedy pawn of Putin only looks at what will make him look good to himself and his dishonest and corrupt cultists - and of course - Putin...

 

One will be much more likely to get a scientifically valid opinion by asking any 12 year old child picked at random...

 

BTW - what kind of power source did a foreign manufacturer's vehicle have and use when it won the most recent Pike's Peak Hill Climb - breaking all previous records by a significant margin?

44>dolt45
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Re: White House: End Electric Car Subsidies

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Message 17 of 53

China's big cities are famously polluted. Air pollution is responsible for as many as one million excess deaths per year in China, according to estimates from the World Health Organization. China knows it needs to change.
That systemic change is coming from China's auto industry.
Come back in ten years, and you'll find a China that's well on its way to blue skies and clean air, at least in its major urban centers. That's because motor vehicles are the largest source of pollution in most of China's cities, and China's auto industry is rapidly turning all-electric.


Chinese automakers churned out 680,000 all-electric cars, busses and trucks in 2017, more than the rest of the world combined.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/salvatorebabones/2018/03/06/china-could-be-the-worlds-first-all-electri...

 

China's Electric Car Sales vs U.S.

 

china electric car sales.jpg

 

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Re: White House: End Electric Car Subsidies

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Message 18 of 53

@ManicProgressive wrote:

@gruffstuff wrote:

In March, President Trump canceled a fuel economy ruling put in place by the Obama administration requiring automakers to achieve 54 miles a gallon by 2025, double the present level.
Environmentalists claimed higher standards would boost sales of hybrid and electric cars.

 

Bad Idea, Modern cars get 30 to 40 MPG, SUV and light trucks over 20 MPG. Federal fuel economy standards are the only reason we do. 

 

If not for those standards American cars would still get less then 20 MPG

 

Better fuel economy benefits people who drive more the most,. generally speaking the people who live outside urban areas.

 

We saw what happened in the seventies and eighties, small foreign cars that got good gas mileage ate the US car industry 's  lunch.

 

If USA and US automakers don't get on board with high mileage and or electric cars the same thing is going to happen .

 

I'm a made in the USA kind of guy, but I'll tell you all plainly, if Tesla makes electric cars in China and imports them to the US I'm probably going to buy one, even if I have to pay tariffs to do it.

 

Tesla just bought Maxwell battery, the reason Tesla did that was vertical integration, they want to own the company the makes the batteries, and the patents for those batteries.

 

That technology comes in two aspects of potential, one is a better battery, one that has a 20% and perhaps as high as 50% greater capacity  in a dry cell versus the lithium ion wet cell. 

 

Another is super capacitors, these super capacitors will allow energy expended in acceleration to be recovered by braking.  Energy is stored in the super capacitor, it's used to accelerate the vehicle, and then when the vehicle brakes  the wheel motors brake the vehicle, recover most of the energy used to accelerate the vehicle and return it to the super capacitors. There is no charge and discharge life on the super capacitor like there is on batteries, fast charge, fast discharge, no battery fade. This will greatly extend the life of the car batteries.

 

That could further extend the range of electric cars.

 

Tesla cars currently have a range of 237 to 315 miles, 20% more is 284 to 378,  50% more is  355 to 472. I don't know how much the super capacitor could add to that but it will at the least bring electric cars in line with fossil fuel cars, all factors combine it will probably exceed fossil fuel cars.

 

Think about that, 400 to 600 miles on one charge is a four wheel drive car, and not just any car, in a Tesla.

 

That has my attention.

 

The US and the US car industry has it's head stuck up the behinds of the fossil fuel industry, and that is a dead end. 

 

A dead end for the industry, a dead end for US workers, and perhaps a dead end for the planet.

 

Try to protect industries with tariffs, subsidise coal and oil if you want, sneer at solar power, don't subsides  innovation, protect the old ways and the old industries, it's not going to work.

 

The rest of the world will move on and we will be stuck in the stone age.

 


Agree 100%. 

 

A big problem with this country, it seems, is there is no sense of urgency to fix the many problems we face moving forward into the 21st century.   We are lazy, or ignorant, or both. Big business doesn’t look out for our long-term interests.  It looks out for its long-term profit.  We have to demand action for our own welfare.  And government was a way we did that. No longer. 


Our parents and grandparents elected people who had VISION and had proven they could be trusted. That Government KNEW we needed to literally "go where no Man had gone before" so Jefferson bought Louisanna Territory from Napolean, and in 1862 Lincoln signed the legislation giving two companies the right to build a Trans-Continential Railroad. that legislation gave the companies Government loans, a 400' wide right of way and 10 square miles of land along the route for every mile of track they laid. They did this because no CORPORATION was going to risk that much money on something that had no guarentee of success. As a result the cost of moving a person from St Louis to California dropped from $1,000 to $150, and the benefits of the most fertile farmland in the World was made available to all the American people. IT MADE AMERICA GREAT.

 

Now we let Russia elect an Orange Toad as POTUS, and packed Congress with Republican Neanderthals who think coal is the future, and more billionaires able to hand their fortunes to their kids untaxed is what will make us great again. Truely a bunch of MAGAts feasting on the corpse of our former glory.

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Re: White House: End Electric Car Subsidies

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Message 19 of 53

Big business doesn’t look out for our long-term interests.  It looks out for its long-term profit.  We have to demand action for our own welfare.  And government was a way we did that. No longer. 

 

Dude they don't even to that, all they do is look at the next quarter and what their stock price is.

 

 

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Re: White House: End Electric Car Subsidies

329 Views
Message 20 of 53

@gruffstuff wrote:

In March, President Trump canceled a fuel economy ruling put in place by the Obama administration requiring automakers to achieve 54 miles a gallon by 2025, double the present level.
Environmentalists claimed higher standards would boost sales of hybrid and electric cars.

 

Bad Idea, Modern cars get 30 to 40 MPG, SUV and light trucks over 20 MPG. Federal fuel economy standards are the only reason we do. 

 

If not for those standards American cars would still get less then 20 MPG

 

Better fuel economy benefits people who drive more the most,. generally speaking the people who live outside urban areas.

 

We saw what happened in the seventies and eighties, small foreign cars that got good gas mileage ate the US car industry 's  lunch.

 

If USA and US automakers don't get on board with high mileage and or electric cars the same thing is going to happen .

 

I'm a made in the USA kind of guy, but I'll tell you all plainly, if Tesla makes electric cars in China and imports them to the US I'm probably going to buy one, even if I have to pay tariffs to do it.

 

Tesla just bought Maxwell battery, the reason Tesla did that was vertical integration, they want to own the company the makes the batteries, and the patents for those batteries.

 

That technology comes in two aspects of potential, one is a better battery, one that has a 20% and perhaps as high as 50% greater capacity  in a dry cell versus the lithium ion wet cell. 

 

Another is super capacitors, these super capacitors will allow energy expended in acceleration to be recovered by braking.  Energy is stored in the super capacitor, it's used to accelerate the vehicle, and then when the vehicle brakes  the wheel motors brake the vehicle, recover most of the energy used to accelerate the vehicle and return it to the super capacitors. There is no charge and discharge life on the super capacitor like there is on batteries, fast charge, fast discharge, no battery fade. This will greatly extend the life of the car batteries.

 

That could further extend the range of electric cars.

 

Tesla cars currently have a range of 237 to 315 miles, 20% more is 284 to 378,  50% more is  355 to 472. I don't know how much the super capacitor could add to that but it will at the least bring electric cars in line with fossil fuel cars, all factors combine it will probably exceed fossil fuel cars.

 

Think about that, 400 to 600 miles on one charge is a four wheel drive car, and not just any car, in a Tesla.

 

That has my attention.

 

The US and the US car industry has it's head stuck up the behinds of the fossil fuel industry, and that is a dead end. 

 

A dead end for the industry, a dead end for US workers, and perhaps a dead end for the planet.

 

Try to protect industries with tariffs, subsidise coal and oil if you want, sneer at solar power, don't subsides  innovation, protect the old ways and the old industries, it's not going to work.

 

The rest of the world will move on and we will be stuck in the stone age.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Agree 100%. 

 

A big problem with this country, it seems, is there is no sense of urgency to fix the many problems we face moving forward into the 21st century.   We are lazy, or ignorant, or both. Big business doesn’t look out for our long-term interests.  It looks out for its long-term profit.  We have to demand action for our own welfare.  And government was a way we did that. No longer. 

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