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Conversationalist

While Trump Promotes Coal, Others Turn To Cheap Solar

These are the kinds of project Republicans are fighting against in the US at the behest of their power company donors.


‘A solar Saudi Arabia’

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/world/2017/03/31/while-trump-promotes-coal-other-countries-are-turn...

Honored Social Butterfly


@Richva wrote:

Lets be clear tht Trump is not promoting coal, he is lying to coal miners. it is in his blood. 



@Richva wrote:

Lets be clear tht Trump is not promoting coal, he is lying to coal miners. it is in his blood. 


Could you expand a bit on your theory? I agree that he is not necessarily promoting coal, all he is doing is trying to let natural market forces dictate it's future rather than taking away those jobs by Imperial Decree as were the actions of his predecessor.

 

But I suspect you have something more in mind.

Honored Social Butterfly

Trump is a liar and the most ignorant 'so called' president this country has ever had the misfortune to have sitting in the WH.  First of all, either he had no information on the status of coal reserves or the futrue of coal mining during the campaign, or, secondly, he just lied to all those people so he could glory in his great self as president.  He's a slug, and the largest and most swarthy of all the swamp creatures--many, many of whom he installed there himself.

Gee, I miss having a real President!!
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@pc6063 wrote:

Trump is a liar and the most ignorant 'so called' president this country has ever had the misfortune to have sitting in the WH.  First of all, either he had no information on the status of coal reserves or the futrue of coal mining during the campaign, or, secondly, he just lied to all those people so he could glory in his great self as president.  He's a slug, and the largest and most swarthy of all the swamp creatures--many, many of whom he installed there himself.


Quite a rant of hatred totally unsupported by facts.

 

Sometimes it seems that hatred is the entire point to some.

Honored Social Butterfly


@rk9152 wrote:


Could you expand a bit on your theory? I agree that he is not necessarily promoting coal, all he is doing is trying to let natural market forces dictate it's future rather than taking away those jobs by Imperial Decree as were the actions of his predecessor.

 

But I suspect you have something more in mind.


"Natural market forces" are exactly what caused jobs to be lost in the coal industry, first by strip mining technology, and then by gas becoming so much cheaper.  If you disagree then please show specifically what the "Imperial Decree" is that you mention.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly


@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:


Could you expand a bit on your theory? I agree that he is not necessarily promoting coal, all he is doing is trying to let natural market forces dictate it's future rather than taking away those jobs by Imperial Decree as were the actions of his predecessor.

 

But I suspect you have something more in mind.


"Natural market forces" are exactly what caused jobs to be lost in the coal industry, first by strip mining technology, and then by gas becoming so much cheaper.  If you disagree then please show specifically what the "Imperial Decree" is that you mention.


One more once - the jobs under discussion were not lost via natural market forces. They were lost via environmental regulations.

Honored Social Butterfly


@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:


Could you expand a bit on your theory? I agree that he is not necessarily promoting coal, all he is doing is trying to let natural market forces dictate it's future rather than taking away those jobs by Imperial Decree as were the actions of his predecessor.

 

But I suspect you have something more in mind.


"Natural market forces" are exactly what caused jobs to be lost in the coal industry, first by strip mining technology, and then by gas becoming so much cheaper.  If you disagree then please show specifically what the "Imperial Decree" is that you mention.


One more once - the jobs under discussion were not lost via natural market forces. They were lost via environmental regulations.


Show the "environmental regulations" that caused jobs loss in the coal industry. Show documentation of jobs loss caused by those regulations. Without documentation and proof it is just an empty statement.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:


Could you expand a bit on your theory? I agree that he is not necessarily promoting coal, all he is doing is trying to let natural market forces dictate it's future rather than taking away those jobs by Imperial Decree as were the actions of his predecessor.

 

But I suspect you have something more in mind.


"Natural market forces" are exactly what caused jobs to be lost in the coal industry, first by strip mining technology, and then by gas becoming so much cheaper.  If you disagree then please show specifically what the "Imperial Decree" is that you mention.


One more once - the jobs under discussion were not lost via natural market forces. They were lost via environmental regulations.


Show the "environmental regulations" that caused jobs loss in the coal industry. Show documentation of jobs loss caused by those regulations. Without documentation and proof it is just an empty statement.


Well, if he didn't undo those environmental regulations, all this whining about the damage he has done to the environment and health are frauds. You pick which side of the argument you want to take and we can take it from there.

Conversationalist

Your comment is a common misunderstanding among conservatives.

 

https://news.vice.com/story/trump-gave-the-coal-industry-a-gift-this-week-heres-what-it-cost

 

 

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@Albion61 wrote:

Your comment is a common misunderstanding among conservatives.

 

https://news.vice.com/story/trump-gave-the-coal-industry-a-gift-this-week-heres-what-it-cost

 

 


Deliberately manipulating data to support a pre-determined agenda is a LIE...a real LIE...not just a misunderstanding.  Advocacy is but another form of a LIE, when the legitimacy of evidence not supporting an agenda is denied without cause.

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@rk9152 wrote:



One more once - the jobs under discussion were not lost via natural market forces. They were lost via environmental regulations.


No matter what executive orders are signed, and no matter what laws congress enacts, natural market forces will react to less expensive energy available from other sources/methods - which will continue to exacerbate the inevitable decline of the coal mining industry.

Coal mining is dying, and nothing can be done to save it in the long run.

 

 

44>dolt45
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alferdpacker:  Coal mining is dying, and nothing can be done to save it in the long run.

 

 

Yep, it's time is just about over. The really sad part is that all this kerfuffle over coal coming back (not) means we're not doing what we could be doing to make America the world leader in renewable energy. While we're sitting around trying to light a fire under coal, other countries are going to innovate and make the investments and they will be getting the jobs instead of Americans. But hey, let's just invest in pickaxes, headlamps and canaries and when finally forced to we can buy the technology and components we need from China etc.

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@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:



One more once - the jobs under discussion were not lost via natural market forces. They were lost via environmental regulations.


No matter what executive orders are signed, and no matter what laws congress enacts, natural market forces will react to less expensive energy available from other sources/methods - which will continue to exacerbate the inevitable decline of the coal mining industry.

Coal mining is dying, and nothing can be done to save it in the long run.

 

 


You are merely shouting the same thing that I and others have been saying. And it has nothing to do with the actions of President Trump in fulfilling his campaign promise to those miners.

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@rk9152 wrote:


 

 


You are merely shouting the same thing that I and others have been saying. And it has nothing to do with the actions of President Trump in fulfilling his campaign promise to those miners.


The question is whether he will be forcibly removed from office, or resign - the only actions he could take that I would support...

44>dolt45
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@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:


 

 


You are merely shouting the same thing that I and others have been saying. And it has nothing to do with the actions of President Trump in fulfilling his campaign promise to those miners.


The question is whether he will be forcibly removed from office, or resign - the only actions he could take that I would support...


No, the question is about President Trump honoring his commitment to the miners. No matter how loud you shout something else, it will not change the issue.

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@rk9152 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:


 

 


You are merely shouting the same thing that I and others have been saying. And it has nothing to do with the actions of President Trump in fulfilling his campaign promise to those miners.


The question is whether he will be forcibly removed from office, or resign - the only actions he could take that I would support...


No, the question is about President Trump honoring his commitment to the miners. No matter how loud you shout something else, it will not change the issue.


Then please show us how Trump allowing coal companies to dump their sludge into our waterways is "honoring his commitment to the miners". Show us how that will help them retain their jobs or gain more jobs.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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No matter what he does or says and no matter how many executive orders he signs - coal mining jobs will not be back to stay...

 

 

44>dolt45
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@alferdpacker wrote:

No matter what he does or says and no matter how many executive orders he signs - coal mining jobs will not be back to stay...

 

 Nor did he ever say that they would - no matter how loud you shout it.


 

Honored Social Butterfly


@rk9152 wrote:

No, the question is about President Trump honoring his commitment to the miners. No matter how loud you shout something else, it will not change the issue.


Yes, it was a stupid promise that puts the health of the American people and the world climate at risk with no benefit to the miners he claims to be helping but it was a promise we have come to expect from Trump. 

Honored Social Butterfly


@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

No, the question is about President Trump honoring his commitment to the miners. No matter how loud you shout something else, it will not change the issue.


Yes, it was a stupid promise that puts the health of the American people and the world climate at risk with no benefit to the miners he claims to be helping but it was a promise we have come to expect from Trump. 


Do you have any idea as the percentage of damage to the world and health was done by saving those few jobs?? Or is the entire point to just attack our President?

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@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

Lets be clear tht Trump is not promoting coal, he is lying to coal miners. it is in his blood. 



@Richva wrote:

Lets be clear tht Trump is not promoting coal, he is lying to coal miners. it is in his blood. 


Could you expand a bit on your theory? I agree that he is not necessarily promoting coal, all he is doing is trying to let natural market forces dictate it's future rather than taking away those jobs by Imperial Decree as were the actions of his predecessor.

 

But I suspect you have something more in mind.


"Hear that? You guys are going back to work". Donald Trump addressing a miner after lifting the regulations around C02 emissions.   Trump knows this miner is not going back to work.

1. If coal demand doubled tomorrow the mines would simply purchase more machinery. 

2. No investor in his right mind would finance a coal fired project today. In The Netherlands they are building roads and bike lanes our ot solar panels  for crying out loud. 

3. Trump talks about "Clean Coal" but simply repealing the C02 limits will not make coal clean. He keeps saying things that make the miners feel better but delivers no solutions to them. 

Honored Social Butterfly


@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

Lets be clear tht Trump is not promoting coal, he is lying to coal miners. it is in his blood. 



@Richva wrote:

Lets be clear tht Trump is not promoting coal, he is lying to coal miners. it is in his blood. 


Could you expand a bit on your theory? I agree that he is not necessarily promoting coal, all he is doing is trying to let natural market forces dictate it's future rather than taking away those jobs by Imperial Decree as were the actions of his predecessor.

 

But I suspect you have something more in mind.


"Hear that? You guys are going back to work". Donald Trump addressing a miner after lifting the regulations around C02 emissions.   Trump knows this miner is not going back to work.

1. If coal demand doubled tomorrow the mines would simply purchase more machinery. 

2. No investor in his right mind would finance a coal fired project today. In The Netherlands they are building roads and bike lanes our ot solar panels  for crying out loud. 

3. Trump talks about "Clean Coal" but simply repealing the C02 limits will not make coal clean. He keeps saying things that make the miners feel better but delivers no solutions to them. 


He was obviously referring to the jobs artificially taken.

 

As to the rest - fine, as free market forces bring about changes, that is as it should be.

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@rk9152 wrote:

 


He was obviously referring to the jobs artificially taken.

 

As to the rest - fine, as free market forces bring about changes, that is as it should be.


Please show documentation of jobs that were "artificially taken". You know you can't and you know there were none, but go ahead, show proof of that.

 

"Free Market" is what has brought about the changes and the jobs loss in the coal industry. If you disagree, please show documentation/sources showing jobs lost for other reasons.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly


@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 


He was obviously referring to the jobs artificially taken.

 

As to the rest - fine, as free market forces bring about changes, that is as it should be.


Please show documentation of jobs that were "artificially taken". You know you can't and you know there were none, but go ahead, show proof of that.

 

"Free Market" is what has brought about the changes and the jobs loss in the coal industry. If you disagree, please show documentation/sources showing jobs lost for other reasons.


Do I really have to document each and every order from the EPA under Obama? Do you really consider a government agency to be "free market"?

Honored Social Butterfly


@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 


He was obviously referring to the jobs artificially taken.

 

As to the rest - fine, as free market forces bring about changes, that is as it should be.


Please show documentation of jobs that were "artificially taken". You know you can't and you know there were none, but go ahead, show proof of that.

 

"Free Market" is what has brought about the changes and the jobs loss in the coal industry. If you disagree, please show documentation/sources showing jobs lost for other reasons.


Do I really have to document each and every order from the EPA under Obama? Do you really consider a government agency to be "free market"?


Funny that you can disagree but you cannot show how jobs were lost because of Obama, the EPA, or regulations.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
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@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 


He was obviously referring to the jobs artificially taken.

 

As to the rest - fine, as free market forces bring about changes, that is as it should be.


Please show documentation of jobs that were "artificially taken". You know you can't and you know there were none, but go ahead, show proof of that.

 

"Free Market" is what has brought about the changes and the jobs loss in the coal industry. If you disagree, please show documentation/sources showing jobs lost for other reasons.


Do I really have to document each and every order from the EPA under Obama? Do you really consider a government agency to be "free market"?


Funny that you can disagree but you cannot show how jobs were lost because of Obama, the EPA, or regulations.


Well, it it wasn't environmental regulations that he is undoing, what is all the whining about clean air and flat mountains about? Pick a side on this thing and we'll go on from there.

 

On the other hand, the miners seem happy and they are closer to the situation than us. And, after all, it was a campaign promise to them under discussion.

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ChasKy53:  "Free Market" is what has brought about the changes and the jobs loss in the coal industry. If you disagree, please show documentation/sources showing jobs lost for other reasons.

 

You're correct. The coal industry is winding down and is never coming back to even near to supporting a region (Appalachia) as it once did. Automation, cheaper & cleaner natural gas, and coal out west that's cheaper and easier to extract are a few of the reasons.

My thought is that Trump and others know as well as we do that coal is finished as an economic driver in Appalachia, but it's extremely useful during election cycles to get votes. They can get what they really want which is environmental and workplace safety deregulation by promising folks they can bring back the jobs, then after the election the jobs never return. They cynically manipulate these people for votes and that won't stop.

Honored Social Butterfly

While other countries promote advanced, clean and lower cost energy production, Trump directs our country backwards to coal ...... a dirty, archaic and expensive energy source ..... under his fallacious promise to bring back jobs that will never return.

 

America will never become a leader nor anything "great" under a POTUS that drives America backwards.

DUMP TRUMP AND DITCH MITCH TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!
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Duplicate Post Removed


 

DUMP TRUMP AND DITCH MITCH TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!
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