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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: Which Future?

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Message 11 of 142

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

 


@Richva wrote:

Many countries in the world are already dealing  with this issue. They have provided living wages for their citizens. They provide social services like child care, elder care, health care, and retirement in an organized and cost effective manner.  The results have been a happier and healthier population. More robust economies and more economic mobility that in the United States. 

 

In short, the successful future is in social democracy, not socialism and certainly not the "give it all to the top 1%" America has ended up with. 


Exactly so, and we can pay for it by simply repealing the Reagan Taxscam that triggered the redistribution of income and wealth from the Middle Class to the very top of the 1%. During the 1960's and 70's, the middle class and the economy expanded at rates unseen since the Reaganscam, and not a single piece of property was seized and not a single individual in the top 10% suffered a reduced lifestyle.

 

We've tried the Republican plan of dribble down economics for 38 years, and it's been an abject FAILURE for 99% of the population. Time to return to WHAT WORKS.


How does the government collecting more taxes translate into employers paying higher wages? And then there is the issue of "a living wage" - the unwed mother working side by side with the kid still living with mom and dad. Do they have government mandated different salaries?

 

As to your claims of vast expansion of the middle class before the Reagan tax cuts - as always you have forgotten(?) that the leveling started in the '70s.


 

How does the government collecting more taxes translate into employers paying higher wages?  Glad you asked - It's simple human nature. If you have kids, and let one of them divide the cake for desert, you NEVER let the one doing the dividing take the first piece. If you do, they cut a huge slice for themselves and leave tiny slices for everyone else.Sad to say, that behavior does not change much as they age.

So when the TMR was 91%, the ones at the top of the "food chain" in any business would look at  the profits and realize if they took a huge slice for themselves, they could only keep 9 cents of every dollar, a nickle would go to State and local taxes, and they'd get 4 cents in their pocket.

 

So instead they gave ALL the profits that were attributable to increased worker productivity to the workers, PLUS some of the profits from higher sales and inflation so in the 1950's. This process was repeated at every level of management that had the power to determine workers' wages and wages increased by 134% of the increase in worker productivity.

 

The 1950's also saw another monumental change in the American economy that not a lot of people were aware of.  A group of very prominent industrialists got together and decided to attack the unfairness of the "class system", including the evils of racism, the with the power of a MERITOCRACY in their businesses. To make sure they got "the best and brightest", they began the process in the 8th grade by selecting high performing middle and lower class kids for scholarships to the top end prep schools and followed this with giving the high performers the "Old Boy Network" boost to enter the best Colleges and Universities. On the job, they began promoting based on ability, regardless of class or race. Now the incredible negative reaction to the Civil Rights Movement among their white workers caused them to drop the promotions for blacks in the workplace, but they continued to include them in their education program.

 

In 1965, the TMR dropped to just 70% and son of a gun, the ones dividing the profits realized they COULD KEEP 21 cents, so they did, and during the 1960's and 70's workers wages only increased by 80% of the gains in worker productivity.

 

In 1981 Reagan cut the TMR to 50% and in 1985 he cut it to 28% and since 1985 worker productivity increased 147% but workers wages only increased 9% while MANAGEMENT compensation skyrocketed 400%.

 

To really understand what happened you need to understand that Economic THEORIES do not drive the economy one way or the other - the changes are because people in positions of authority make decisions. Enter the product of that "social reform project" I mentioned earlier in this typeface.  The thing they could NOT provide with the improved education was a sense of "nobelesse oblige" that came from a lifetime of great wealth. In addition to the common sense factor that proved giving the workers the profits would boost their fortunes faster than simply "take the money and run", they had those fortunes already. Their proteges did NOT, but they sure wanted to, so as these folks entered the top levels of industry and finance, their goal was to grab all they could as fast as they could, which is what they did. You can track their assent in the Corporate World right along with the push to get GOPers to cut their taxes and the rapacious behavior that redistributed all that income into the pockets of the ones dividing the profits.

 

As for the "living wage", it applies to everyone so by working FULL TIME, you receive enough to escape poverty. The kid won't be working "full time" and because the single mom won't either because she'll need child care and all the other things that make kids cost us $233,610 BEFORE THEY TURN 18.

 

That's what the additional tax revenue will take care of for EVERYONE via subsidized child care, health insurance, free education and much faster growth in income for the bottom 90% which will be reflected in the indexed living wage.

 

https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/

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Message 12 of 142

@Olderscout66 wrote:

 


@Richva wrote:

Many countries in the world are already dealing  with this issue. They have provided living wages for their citizens. They provide social services like child care, elder care, health care, and retirement in an organized and cost effective manner.  The results have been a happier and healthier population. More robust economies and more economic mobility that in the United States. 

 

In short, the successful future is in social democracy, not socialism and certainly not the "give it all to the top 1%" America has ended up with. 


Exactly so, and we can pay for it by simply repealing the Reagan Taxscam that triggered the redistribution of income and wealth from the Middle Class to the very top of the 1%. During the 1960's and 70's, the middle class and the economy expanded at rates unseen since the Reaganscam, and not a single piece of property was seized and not a single individual in the top 10% suffered a reduced lifestyle.

 

We've tried the Republican plan of dribble down economics for 38 years, and it's been an abject FAILURE for 99% of the population. Time to return to WHAT WORKS.


How does the government collecting more taxes translate into employers paying higher wages? And then there is the issue of "a living wage" - the unwed mother working side by side with the kid still living with mom and dad. Do they have government mandated different salaries?

 

As to your claims of vast expansion of the middle class before the Reagan tax cuts - as always you have forgotten(?) that the leveling started in the '70s.

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Message 13 of 142

Olderscout wrote-We've tried the Republican plan of dribble down economics for 38 years, and it's been an abject FAILURE for 99% of the population. Time to return to WHAT WORKS------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The economy for all practcal  purposes seems to be  working Great for 99 % of everyone  -sorry it passed you by.

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Message 14 of 142

 

rk9152-Updated, a few like Warren and Sanders came out of the closet but it took the brash AOC to really light the fire. Right now, her ideas are impractical but, if you can get emotions fired up, practicality is not needed. Add to that the older people who see themselves as "victims of the system" as a way to deal with their failure, there well could be a package that tilts the scales.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------This is the Future that the brash AOC has for the future of USA--perhaps this package might tip the scale-52313792_2070728622962475_1598662406110707712_n.jpg

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Message 15 of 142

 


@Richva wrote:

Many countries in the world are already dealing  with this issue. They have provided living wages for their citizens. They provide social services like child care, elder care, health care, and retirement in an organized and cost effective manner.  The results have been a happier and healthier population. More robust economies and more economic mobility that in the United States. 

 

In short, the successful future is in social democracy, not socialism and certainly not the "give it all to the top 1%" America has ended up with. 


Exactly so, and we can pay for it by simply repealing the Reagan Taxscam that triggered the redistribution of income and wealth from the Middle Class to the very top of the 1%. During the 1960's and 70's, the middle class and the economy expanded at rates unseen since the Reaganscam, and not a single piece of property was seized and not a single individual in the top 10% suffered a reduced lifestyle.

 

We've tried the Republican plan of dribble down economics for 38 years, and it's been an abject FAILURE for 99% of the population. Time to return to WHAT WORKS.

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Message 16 of 142

@Richva wrote:

Many countries in the world are already dealing  with this issue. They have provided living wages for their citizens. They provide social services like child care, elder care, health care, and retirement in an organized and cost effective manner.  The results have been a happier and healthier population. More robust economies and more economic mobility that in the United States. 

 

In short, the successful future is in social democracy, not socialism and certainly not the "give it all to the top 1%" America has ended up with. 


Back to the basic issue - is one's salary based purely on his or her needs?

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Message 17 of 142

Many countries in the world are already dealing  with this issue. They have provided living wages for their citizens. They provide social services like child care, elder care, health care, and retirement in an organized and cost effective manner.  The results have been a happier and healthier population. More robust economies and more economic mobility that in the United States. 

 

In short, the successful future is in social democracy, not socialism and certainly not the "give it all to the top 1%" America has ended up with. 

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Message 18 of 142

 


@Olderscout66 wrote:

 

You cannot have such a future by forcing women to bare children they do not want into families that cannot support them, which is the Republican Future.

 

An interesting approach. Shall we say that a woman pregnant with a child she cannot feed must abort the child?

 

Again the thinking of Sanger seems to come up.

 


 


 


 

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Message 19 of 142

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

The Future belongs to the young, and that is the death knell of the neoRepublican Party. The young are not going to accept the future Republicans have arranged for them.

 

They do not support the continued redistribtuion of wealth from the middle to the very top. They do not support continued discrimination based on race sex or sexual preference. They do not support the continued slaughter of school children as being Constitutionally Protected. They do not support the continued distruction of our environment in the name of higher profits.

 

In short, they agree with the Democratic Party on these issues, and that bodes well for our collective future. No Billionaires will go hungry, shiver in the cold, remain uneducated or lose everything when a child gets sick AND NEITHER WILL ANYONE ELSE.


You may well be right. The study and recommendations of the Frankfurt School carried out by the political activism of the Progressive Movement have instilled Marxism into the minds of the youth. It is obviously was not an overnight event. But I have always admired their patience and persistence. I remember back in the sixties observing how they were running for the School Board, County Office, all local stuff while the crazy Conservatives were aiming for the "big" offices. The wisdom of their strategy is now being seen.

 

Updated, a few like Warren and Sanders came out of the closet but it took the brash AOC to really light the fire. Right now, her ideas are impractical but, if you can get emotions fired up, practicality is not needed. Add to that the older people who see themselves as "victims of the system" as a way to deal with their failure, there well could be a package that tilts the scales.


Back in the fifties and sixties, eh?

 

That was back when dingbat Robert Welch felt that Eisenhower was controlled by communists, Fred Koch said that the black man featured in the communist plot to take over America, "Tailgunner" Joe McCarthy, running on his usual mix of alcohol and morphine, showed the nation what an evil and deranged crackpot he was, and Barry Goldwater, mistaking his hallucinations for reality, went off on an extreme right wingnut tangent that the majority of the nation's citizens roundly rejected...

 

So we're expected to believe that nutty paranoia from deranged anti-commie Birchers and extreme right fringe republicans and conservatives about the mythical fairy tale marxist threat?

LOL- ROTFLMAO...

 

Don't forget that rock and roll is part of a plot by Satan and Communists to destroy the USA by leading the youth of America to become witches and watch pornography...

 

And - if - as fundamentalists claim - the nation should be governed by Biblifcal standards - shouldn't members of Congress be thinking about stoning trump to death for his adultery?

 

Love that nutty living in a previous century conservative whack-jobbery...

 

Well - at least we got some slapstick comic relief out of the grotesque and laughable conservative wanna-be fascist dictator nonsense...

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Message 20 of 142

@Controlled42010 wrote:

Olderscout, it appears that perhaps the mindset of the opposite of ours is, start teaching them  in high school in the sex education classes that if you are in a network of below this income/social level than you should seek medical intervention to prevent any child barring?!

 

@controlled: True, that is what they are creating, but at the same time they remove the possibility that medical intervention is available to the poor.

 


@Olderscout66 wrote:

The Future must be one in which a woman has control over her own reproductive health. We need a future where there are no unwanted children, and all children are protected from the ravages of poverty, violence and injustice.

 

You cannot have such a future by forcing women to bare children they do not want into families that cannot support them, which is the Republican Future.

 

Reject the Republican Future of Feudal Serfdom

 

Embrace the Democratic Future of Social Justice.

 


 


 

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