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Re: Where is Our Right Not to Get Shot?

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Message 1 of 42

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:


But. Statistics sow that having a person with a gun around, trained or not, raises your risk of death or injury significantly. Why do you get to carry a gun if it makes me less safe? What militia do you belong to?


Washington DC v Heller removed - possibly forever - any implication that the oft quoted phrase in the Second Amendment - citing militia membership - is no longer constitutionally considered a prerequisite to possess and carry arms (firearms).

That militia membership argument is now a very dead bird.

However I will agree that a requirement that firearms owners should be required to practice regularly and qualify at least anually in order to be permitted to carry in public is not only a GOOD IDEA - but should be absolutely mandatory federal law.


NOW, with the Fascist Five on SCOTUS, the militia membership argument may be dead, BUT it held sway for 100 years and could do so again with a Court composed of people capable of actually reading the Constitution and applying it to the 21st Century instead of the 18th.


That's possible - but I wouldn't expect to see anything even remotely like that until after the makeup of the Supreme Court changes significantly - or an Amendment is ratified, replacing and changing the unclear wording with crystal clear stated intent and equally unambiguous wording.

I very much doubt that will happen in the lifetime of anybody currently over fifty years of age...

 

He is useless on top of the ground - he should be under it - inspiring the cabbages... Mark Twain 1894
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Re: Where is Our Right Not to Get Shot?

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Message 2 of 42

@alferdpacker wrote:


But. Statistics sow that having a person with a gun around, trained or not, raises your risk of death or injury significantly. Why do you get to carry a gun if it makes me less safe? What militia do you belong to?


Washington DC v Heller removed - possibly forever - any implication that the oft quoted phrase in the Second Amendment - citing militia membership - is no longer constitutionally considered a prerequisite to possess and carry arms (firearms).

That militia membership argument is now a very dead bird.

However I will agree that a requirement that firearms owners should be required to practice regularly and qualify at least anually in order to be permitted to carry in public is not only a GOOD IDEA - but should be absolutely mandatory federal law.


NOW, with the Fascist Five on SCOTUS, the militia membership argument may be dead, BUT it held sway for 100 years and could do so again with a Court composed of people capable of actually reading the Constitution and applying it to the 21st Century instead of the 18th.

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Re: Where is Our Right Not to Get Shot?

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Message 3 of 42

@alferdpacker wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@jimc91 wrote:

@loveabull wrote:

Gun owners have all these groups representing their right to bear arms. What about those of us who just don't want to be in the way when someone opens fire?

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/colorado-shooting-leaves-4-dead-including-gunman/npDQ2/


You must live in Chicago.

 

Your rights are located in the Constitution.  That said, if you are afraid you are going to be shot, consider self defense training, and if you live in a county that allows you to arm yourself, do so then be concious of your surroundings all the time.

 

Good luck.


But. Statistics sow that having a person with a gun around, trained or not, raises your risk of death or injury significantly. Why do you get to carry a gun if it makes me less safe? What militia do you belong to?


Washington DC v Heller removed - possibly forever - any implication that the oft quoted phrase in the Second Amendment - citing militia membership - is no longer constitutionally considered a prerequisite to possess and carry arms (firearms).

That militia membership argument is now a very dead bird.

However I will agree that a requirement that firearms owners should be required to practice regularly and qualify at least anually in order to be permitted to carry in public is not only a GOOD IDEA - but should be absolutely mandatory federal law.


NOW, with the Fascist Five on SCOTUS, the militia membership argument may be dead, BUT it held sway for 100 years and could do so again with a Court composed of people capable of actually reading the Constitution and applying it to the 21st Century instead of the 18th.

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Re: Where is Our Right Not to Get Shot?

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Message 4 of 42

@loveabull wrote:

What it comes down to if you are caught in crossfire armed or unarmed you don't have a prayer. Maybe it makes you feel better to think you might get in a few shots before you are incapacitated, and it's possible you could. Then again between the excitment of the moment and the speed which things can happen you might not be able to judge who you're aiming at so well. There is one social club I walk the dog by some nights.

The folks hanging outside give my dog a wide distance so no problems there. But what if when we walked by, someone decided to solve a beef with the gentleman smoking his cigarette? I can't run so well and my dog isn't bullet proof. It wouldn't matter a rats ass if I was armed. Shooting at a moving car with a handgun isn't going to stop it. If they've already fired and worse yet the guys they were shooting at start shooting...then you just have a big mess.

The best we could do is I pick up Mr. Moose and start cutting through backyards till the police get there. 


The - Best Thing You Could Do - is fight to make sure - no civilian is walking around on the streets with a gun - legal - concealed - not concealed - illegal - it makes no difference - most of the civilians walking around with guns even legally couldn't respond effectively when attacked by another armed person regardless of how well they think they are trained - there is no adequate training available to civilians that can simulate a actual armed attack with live rounds heading at your body - NONE

 

The most well-trained US Miltary Commando - Seal - Delta Team - CIA - Mosaad - whomever - cannot simulate that experience and these people do get killled even though they are probably the best trained and best at what they do in the world

 

This US Commando was killed by basically - ISIS Prison Guards -  not even their best trained fighters and the Americans and the Kurds had practiced this assault previously in a environment they controlled and it still went BAD

 

An American service member was killed in an operation against an ISIS-controlled prison in northern Iraq, the Pentagon said Thursday.

The commando became the first American combat death in Iraq since November 2011.

 

SOURCE - http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/22/middleeast/us-iraq-hostage-rescue-attempt/

 

 Guns have no place in public areas in a civilized society -

 

you want to play Cowboys and Indians - pretend your having a heart attack - roll around on the ground and start shooting at boggeyman  - Go to Hollywood and become a actor

 

I don't want anyone doing anything like that in my neighborhood - does anyone else -

 

if you want to see what it's really like in a gun battle read the Boston Marathon Transcripts - visit Watertown Ma even the cops bullets are still in some of the innocent residents houses - Tamerlin Tsernayv after being shot and wounded was being held down by 3 Boston Police Officers trying to cuff him and they had to run away and let the prisoner get killed when the other Tsernayev backed up a car towards them - they were all trained professionals and two insane kids took over the situation

 

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Where is Our Right Not to Get Shot?

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Message 5 of 42

What it comes down to if you are caught in crossfire armed or unarmed you don't have a prayer. Maybe it makes you feel better to think you might get in a few shots before you are incapacitated, and it's possible you could. Then again between the excitment of the moment and the speed which things can happen you might not be able to judge who you're aiming at so well. There is one social club I walk the dog by some nights.

The folks hanging outside give my dog a wide distance so no problems there. But what if when we walked by, someone decided to solve a beef with the gentleman smoking his cigarette? I can't run so well and my dog isn't bullet proof. It wouldn't matter a rats ass if I was armed. Shooting at a moving car with a handgun isn't going to stop it. If they've already fired and worse yet the guys they were shooting at start shooting...then you just have a big mess.

The best we could do is I pick up Mr. Moose and start cutting through backyards till the police get there. 

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Re: Where is Our Right Not to Get Shot?

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Message 6 of 42
My major concern with new laws at least in Maine, if your over 21 with no criminal record you can legally concealed carry loaded.

No license required, anywhere restaurants, bars, unless their restricted or no gun zones, like schools. We'll see how well that goes over.

The police departments are more than a little uneasy about the new law, I don't particularly blame them.

Add the possibility of anyone they stop can be legally packing and might have consumed liquor or drugs, and you might have a problem.

Frozen

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Re: Where is Our Right Not to Get Shot?

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Message 7 of 42

I'm of the opinion that guns are like tourniquets - you may never need one, but if you do, you need it NOW. My objection is to their ridiculous availability and their killing power.  A single action weapon with 7 rounds is all the self-defense, hunting and target plunking power anybody will ever need. The fact, for those with the cash, a personal minigun is available is insane.

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Re: Where is Our Right Not to Get Shot?

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Message 8 of 42

@alferdpacker wrote:

@cat2015 wrote:

Alferd, I have to disagree that Heller settled anything. I suspect that different Supreme Courts will be interpreting the Second Amendment differently for the next two hundred years. This is one amendment that will probably never be settled because it is so badly worded.

 

 


Ok - I'll buy that - it's settled this way - until SCOTUS says that it's been changed...


And to effect the right change requires NO GOPers in the Whitehouse and not enough in the Senate to block nominations for the next 20 years. A daunting task, but our lives depend on it, so perhaps that will get Progressives out to vote in EVERY election.

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Re: Where is Our Right Not to Get Shot?

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Message 9 of 42

@alferdpacker wrote:

I've been practicing that fake heart attack, fall and draw for over thirty years. Every time I go to the range, I do it at least ten times - that's twenty to forty times a month for a little over thirty years depending on how nice or snowy the weather is...

It's the same principle with martial arts and a great many sports - practice until you don't have to decide what to do - just do it - you later realize you did it without thinking - just like it was supposed to be...

 

I've been fired at in an urban situation - I did the fake heart attack thing and dropped - they missed me - it was dark - I apparently killed their car radiator - shot between the headlights, and where I thought the windshield should be - saw the antifreeze trail -  didn't see any people blood - didn't read of any gunshot victims - guess I missed...

Didn't wait for any police - not worth the hassle - discharging a weapon in city limits and all...

 


Sounds like a plan - hope I didn't wait too long to begin practicing that drop,draw and shoot. It's been years since I had to "camp out" in the bed of our pickup because getting off the ground in the morning was entirely too time consuming.

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Re: Where is Our Right Not to Get Shot?

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Message 10 of 42

@alferdpacker wrote:

@loveabull wrote:

So basically if the shooter is a better shot...well sucks to be you...Maybe a line of Kevlar active wear? Bullet safe ball caps...gotta protect your head.


Well, yeah - for somewhere between $250 and $500, you can get body armor -depending upon what level of protection you desire.

It's legal for non-felons to own and wear it most everywhere - except in Louisiana schools...

Ball caps?  That would leave a lot of cranium area uncovered - level III protection would be a 20mm thick ball cap - maybe a new fashion statement for the NRA crowd...

 

An interesting addendum -

Most states have laws against committing a crime while wearing body armor - more than a few are so poorly written that one could be cited for failure to signal a turn for a sufficient distance or time - with the enhancement of committing that crime while wearing body armor.


Not sure about ball caps, but Hitler wore a 7-lb steel plate in his hat when going our in public and a working copy should be available from any NRA clothing outlet in their "historical" section.

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