Get a newer and safer vehicle while saving money! Check out the AARP auto buying program.

Reply
Treasured Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
123
Views

Re: When can a "Bad Word" be used in free speech?

123 Views
Message 11 of 40

@FredSmif wrote:

A case (no case) in Fort Bend County, Texas (suburban Houston) a short while back pretty well addresses your hypothetical. Although it does not involve a one-time protest, speech, etc.

 

A couple in Texas had custom stickers made for their truck " 'F-' Trump and 'F-' you for voting for him "

 

There was some back and forth, the county sheriff tried to arrest the man, the county D.A. said no way that this would be a legal arrest. Number of press articles back and forth as the situation changed. I was able to find this discussion on WHOU (tv station) website that gives the highlights. In the end, no charges were ever pressed and as far as I know they are still driving their truck with the sticker.

 

See https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/trucks-trump-f-word-catches-fort-bend-county-sheriffs-attent...

 

 

 

 


@GailL1 wrote:

@gruffstuff wrote:

Can government's - local, state or federal - not make rules of conduct there pertaining to language or appropriate attire meaning with words or perhaps pictures since I assume both would fall under free speech?

 

Government can, but I don't think it should. That puts government in the position of deciding what is appropriate  pertaining to a right that is intended to protect protest against the government.

 

 

Government can do what it wants, a charged person can take it to court and fight it all the way to the SCOTUS, and they might win if the court is sympathetic to free speech at that time in history.

 

 

Still going through that process is itself an impediment to free speech.


I think I am asking a pretty simple question here - Thak you for trying to stay on the topic - which others don't seem to be able to do.

 

Let me see if I can ask it more specifically -

I am at a reproductive rights rally at some high ranking government building (local - state - or federal), in front of it or even inside of it -

  • I wear a hat that says ( "F-word" MEN )
  • or a shirt that says ("You 'F-word" me but I decide the end result"). 
  • Or a button that says ("Don't F-word me again")

Can a government law enforcement officer tell me to remove it because children could be present?

What do children have to do with 1st amendment rights?

I can wear it, I think, but the media cannot even report on what the attire actually says - so how far does this type of free speech get you if trying to make a point meaning spreading exposure.

 

So again my question is when at a public protest, can you use profanity to get across a point - in actual speech, or in attire or signs?

 

 

 

 

 


 


I find that to be very vile and vulgar; I hate bumper stickers like that. But I agree they shouldn’t be banned because of our freedom of speech. And I’ve seen MANY that say vile things about Muslims. Still think they are free speech.

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
123
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
112
Views

Re: When can a "Bad Word" be used in free speech?

112 Views
Message 12 of 40

@Controlled42010 wrote:

@rk9152  Your comment of "Private conversations are not regulated (yet).", I dare ask how does the new norm of the surveillance programs put into play (known as Patriot Act/American Freedom Act)???

Now, if I understand it...we actually lost that right 4thh Amen) once this law was enacted by the government being access to all our "digital footprints", no? Still, we see how many times that has not been proven to stop violence/murder/terrorism/drug trade/human trafficking, no?


@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@GailL1 wrote:

@ManicProgressive 

 

OK - gotcha - so no place where some private entity can make the rules.

Now what about at a protest at a public place ?

Can government's - local, state or federal - not make rules of conduct there pertaining to language or appropriate attire meaning with words or perhaps pictures since I assume both would fall under free speech?


It's always something.  Should trump have been allowed to say "grab 'em by the **bleep**"?


Private conversations are not regulated (yet).

 

I may have missed it but I couldn't find anything about regulating private conversations in your post.


 


 

Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
112
Views
Frequent Social Butterfly
2
Kudos
121
Views

Re: When can a "Bad Word" be used in free speech?

121 Views
Message 13 of 40

A case (no case) in Fort Bend County, Texas (suburban Houston) a short while back pretty well addresses your hypothetical. Although it does not involve a one-time protest, speech, etc.

 

A couple in Texas had custom stickers made for their truck " 'F-' Trump and 'F-' you for voting for him "

 

There was some back and forth, the county sheriff tried to arrest the man, the county D.A. said no way that this would be a legal arrest. Number of press articles back and forth as the situation changed. I was able to find this discussion on WHOU (tv station) website that gives the highlights. In the end, no charges were ever pressed and as far as I know they are still driving their truck with the sticker.

 

See https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/trucks-trump-f-word-catches-fort-bend-county-sheriffs-attent...

 

 

 

 


@GailL1 wrote:

@gruffstuff wrote:

Can government's - local, state or federal - not make rules of conduct there pertaining to language or appropriate attire meaning with words or perhaps pictures since I assume both would fall under free speech?

 

Government can, but I don't think it should. That puts government in the position of deciding what is appropriate  pertaining to a right that is intended to protect protest against the government.

 

 

Government can do what it wants, a charged person can take it to court and fight it all the way to the SCOTUS, and they might win if the court is sympathetic to free speech at that time in history.

 

 

Still going through that process is itself an impediment to free speech.


I think I am asking a pretty simple question here - Thak you for trying to stay on the topic - which others don't seem to be able to do.

 

Let me see if I can ask it more specifically -

I am at a reproductive rights rally at some high ranking government building (local - state - or federal), in front of it or even inside of it -

  • I wear a hat that says ( "F-word" MEN )
  • or a shirt that says ("You 'F-word" me but I decide the end result"). 
  • Or a button that says ("Don't F-word me again")

Can a government law enforcement officer tell me to remove it because children could be present?

What do children have to do with 1st amendment rights?

I can wear it, I think, but the media cannot even report on what the attire actually says - so how far does this type of free speech get you if trying to make a point meaning spreading exposure.

 

So again my question is when at a public protest, can you use profanity to get across a point - in actual speech, or in attire or signs?

 

 

 

 

 


 

Report Inappropriate Content
2
Kudos
121
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
2
Kudos
130
Views

Re: When can a "Bad Word" be used in free speech?

130 Views
Message 14 of 40

@GailL1 wrote:

@BigLib wrote:


Gail, the short answer is profanity in public can be regulated, but it seems to be at the discretion of whatever branch of law enforcement is engaging you about it. Some will even cite you for public disturbance.

 

Is that a demonstration about the Testicular Bill of Rights? Have fun and be careful.

 

 


Not exactly but isn't that "Testicular Bill of Rights" a real hoot !  I do like a legislator that can think and act.

However, it still opposes my views to just keep government out of all these personal matters.

But who am I.

 

Actually this prompted my inquiry -

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/georgia/judge-police-cant-ban-buttons-protesting-ga-abortion-bill/9306234...

 

I come at this subject from a completely different standpoint - I think the government should stay out of my personal life all together especially if it concerns health matters, which reproduction, abortion matters are.  I don't like Planned Parenthood nor do I like Right to Lifers.  To me, any decision should be made between the person and their medical doctor.  We have allowed all this turmoil to happen because of government meddling in our lives - it is none of their business - any of them - government, Planned Parenthood or Right to Lifers.

 

Course, they don't like my Right to Suicide/ Assisted if need be views either.


I think the judge made the right decision. The protestors likely passed city police on the outside that didn't say a word about the buttons, but it was the capitol police inside who objected. Maybe it's time the various legislatures all pass bills that squares the whole profanity is free speech issue, so that police, regardless of their jurisdictions, can quit trying to move the goalposts based on personal preference.

 

I don't mind Planned Parenthood, because they're not a single-issue entity. Cancer screenings, treating people for STDs (the list goes on and on) doesn't have a thing to do with abortion. And I'm with ya on the assisted suicide thing, too. I recently watched a short documentary on David Goodall. I'm not sure why anyone would have objected.

 

 

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/ (11 pages of lies and growing)
Report Inappropriate Content
2
Kudos
130
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
142
Views

Re: When can a "Bad Word" be used in free speech?

142 Views
Message 15 of 40

@BigLib wrote:


Gail, the short answer is profanity in public can be regulated, but it seems to be at the discretion of whatever branch of law enforcement is engaging you about it. Some will even cite you for public disturbance.

 

Is that a demonstration about the Testicular Bill of Rights? Have fun and be careful.

 

 


Not exactly but isn't that "Testicular Bill of Rights" a real hoot !  I do like a legislator that can think and act.

However, it still opposes my views to just keep government out of all these personal matters.

But who am I.

 

Actually this prompted my inquiry -

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/georgia/judge-police-cant-ban-buttons-protesting-ga-abortion-bill/9306234...

 

I come at this subject from a completely different standpoint - I think the government should stay out of my personal life all together especially if it concerns health matters, which reproduction, abortion matters are.  I don't like Planned Parenthood nor do I like Right to Lifers.  To me, any decision should be made between the person and their medical doctor.  We have allowed all this turmoil to happen because of government meddling in our lives - it is none of their business - any of them - government, Planned Parenthood or Right to Lifers.

 

Course, they don't like my Right to Suicide/ Assisted if need be views either.

* * * * * * * * *
MY SIGNATURE: "It’s Always something" - Roseanne Rosannadanna
Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
142
Views
Treasured Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
136
Views

Re: When can a "Bad Word" be used in free speech?

136 Views
Message 16 of 40

@GailL1 wrote:

@ManicProgressive wrote:

I don’t think you’ll have much luck getting obscene words banned in public. On the flip side of reproductive rights, we had the late term abortion clinic here in Germantown MD, where Dr. Carhart practiced. My youngest son’s dentist and one doctor were in the same office park. I took him one day for an appointment when he was about four, and protesters were there with huge pictures of aborted fetuses marching up and down the street.  There’s another group who does it every Saturday morning near a Planned Parenthood clinic in Rockville. Same pics. 

 

Even my uber liberal county and state governments don’t try to ban that, and instead recognize free speech protections.

 

 


I am not trying to get anything banned.

I just want to know if law enforcement can tell me to remove something that bears the "F-word" or any other profanity or deemed profaned at a public protest.

I have encountered those pro-life pictures too -  In fact, they crop up here in just regular open air shopping mall parking lots- to my knowledge there is no relationship in the protest and the area - but there may be, I don't know.  It does seem like the commercial or private complex could put forth rules to discourage these types of depictions - but maybe not -  

 

Guess we might be talking about the same thing here.  Are we?

Could I go to that same professional complex and wear  "F-word" attire?

  • A hat that says ( "F-word" MEN )
  • or a shirt that says ("You 'F-word" me but I decide the end result"). 
  • Or a button that says ("Don't F-word me again")

A police officer should not tell someone to remove that type of hat. Especially if there is no local law against it. 

Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
136
Views
Treasured Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
132
Views

Re: When can a "Bad Word" be used in free speech?

132 Views
Message 17 of 40

A Woman Flipped Off A Cop And A Court Sided With Her

 

Giving the middle finger to police, while rude and crude, is indeed constitutionally protected free speech, a federal appeals court reaffirmed this week.

 

In a judgment from the US Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit, three judges unanimously said that Debra Cruise-Gulyas was well within her first amendment rights when she flipped the bird at Michigan police officer Matthew Minard during a June 2017 traffic stop.

 

"Fits of rudeness or lack of gratitude may violate the Golden Rule," Judge Jeffrey Sutton wrote in the Wednesday ruling. "But that doesn’t make them illegal or for that matter punishable or for that matter grounds for a seizure."

 

Minard had pulled Cruise-Gulyas over for speeding, but initially decided to be lenient and issue her a ticket for the lesser offense of what's known as a non-moving violation.

 

Though as she drove away, still obviously a little pissed, Cruise-Gulyas "made an all-too-familiar gesture at Minard with her hand and without four of her fingers showing," the court wrote, coyly.

 

This prompted Minard to pull Cruise-Gulyas over once more less than 100 yards away and change the ticket to the more serious offense of a speeding violation.

 

The woman subsequently sued Minard, saying he had no right to stop her in response to her sticking up her middle finger, and the three federal judges agreed "because Cruise-Gulyas did not break any law that would justify the second stop and at most was exercising her free speech rights."

 

The federal court said it is well settled law that flipping the bird was protected speech.

 

"Minard should have known better here," the judge wrote.

 

The decision means Cruise-Gulyas' lawsuit against Minard can proceed back in the lower court.

 

Source - https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/davidmack/middle-fingers-up-put-them-hands-high-tell-em-boy-bye

 

 

( " If I do not believe as you believe, it proves that you do not believe as I believe, and this is all that it proves. Sam Adams )

" )
" - Anonymous

Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
132
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
149
Views

Re: When can a "Bad Word" be used in free speech?

149 Views
Message 18 of 40

@GailL1 wrote:

@ManicProgressive wrote:

I don’t think you’ll have much luck getting obscene words banned in public. On the flip side of reproductive rights, we had the late term abortion clinic here in Germantown MD, where Dr. Carhart practiced. My youngest son’s dentist and one doctor were in the same office park. I took him one day for an appointment when he was about four, and protesters were there with huge pictures of aborted fetuses marching up and down the street.  There’s another group who does it every Saturday morning near a Planned Parenthood clinic in Rockville. Same pics. 

 

Even my uber liberal county and state governments don’t try to ban that, and instead recognize free speech protections.

 

 


I am not trying to get anything banned.

I just want to know if law enforcement can tell me to remove something that bears the "F-word" or any other profanity or deemed profaned at a public protest.

I have encountered those pro-life pictures too -  In fact, they crop up here in just regular open air shopping mall parking lots- to my knowledge there is no relationship in the protest and the area - but there may be, I don't know.  It does seem like the commercial or private complex could put forth rules to discourage these types of depictions - but maybe not -  

 

Guess we might be talking about the same thing here.  Are we?

Could I go to that same professional complex and wear  "F-word" attire?

  • A hat that says ( "F-word" MEN )
  • or a shirt that says ("You 'F-word" me but I decide the end result"). 
  • Or a button that says ("Don't F-word me again")

Gail, the short answer is profanity in public can be regulated, but it seems to be at the discretion of whatever branch of law enforcement is engaging you about it. Some will even cite you for public disturbance. Personally, I would hope people would be more outraged at being lied to than 4 letter words.

 

Is that a demonstration about the Testicular Bill of Rights? Have fun and be careful.

 

 

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/ (11 pages of lies and growing)
Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
149
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
160
Views

Re: When can a "Bad Word" be used in free speech?

160 Views
Message 19 of 40

Social mores regulate what is acceptable or not. Trump had the right to say as he wished. Society is the one that judged him on his language and mores.

In our society, his language  definitely is not supposed to be acceptable. and it also indicated sexual misconduct. but not illegal.              

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
160
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
0
Kudos
159
Views

Re: When can a "Bad Word" be used in free speech?

159 Views
Message 20 of 40

@GailL1  - It's interesting, because when the First Amendment was written, it was to guarantee the right of an individual to speak out against the government or head of government and not be liable to punishment. At the time, punishment could range from exile or prison, to having one's head removed.

 

Today, not only has clothing been deemed a source of free speech, but also the manner of dress or even the way hair is worn. And signs, it seems, pretty much anything goes. Go to any protest, anywhere, and almost everything imaginable is written or drawn on signs. I can't see why clothing would be any different. For example, in Texas, there are plenty of t-shirts out there with such things as "hands off my f------ gun." 

 

There used to be dress codes in public schools, but these days, parents sue at the drop of a hat. One parent filed a lawsuit when the school said a boy's hair was too long. Parents have also sued when their kids were sent home for what they wore. Seems the courts just let everything get a pass and I suppose the schools just gave up, as the dress codes are very thin nowadays.

 

 

Report Inappropriate Content
0
Kudos
159
Views