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Message 11 of 87

I will concede Reagan did not lie when he said We kept our promises.” We promised that we would protect the financial integrity of social security. We have. We promised that we would protect beneficiaries against any loss in current benefits. We have. And we promised to attend to the needs of those still working, not only those Americans nearing retirement but young people just entering the labor force. And we’ve done that, too…\

 

He was totally WRONG, but it wasn't a lie because there's no chance Reagan would've realized how his taxscam would redistribute income and wealth to wreck his plan to save SS for all Americans.

 

Reagan set the "cap" to capture 90% of income, and all the projections showed that would keep the SSTF solvent FOREVER, but he and the GOPers only allowed the cap to increase according to inflation, and that was woefully inadequate to cover the needs created by the huge redistribution of income shown on those three charts.

 

Social Security is in financial trouble NOT because it pays too much to retirees but because it collects too little from current workers.

 

Republicans insist the fix is to make people work longer, pay more (higher percent FICA) and receive less.

 

Progressives want to reestablish the fund they way Reagan had fixed it so 90% ofincome is contributing to the fund, which would mean the cap needs to be $250,000 AND INDEXED TO INCOME DISTRIBUTION, NOT INFLATION. That, plus the existing tax on retirement incomes over $85.000, will keep the SSTF solvent FOREVER. No increase in retirement age, no increase in the FICA percent and no reduction in benefits.

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Re: Wealth Distribution

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Message 12 of 87

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

Here's a few charts that should illuminate the problem: First shows that ALL the gains in income from the Reaganscam went to increase the income of the top 10% (the managerial class who would be expected to decide how profits were divided and raises given). If they didn't change their method based on their newly awarded ability to keep most ofwhat they gave themselves, what prompted this total reversal of 40 years of "sharing the wealth" that had producedthe greatest expansion ofthe American economy and size and prosperity of the middle Class in history?

 

 

igure 2
 
Income Gains at the Top Dwarf Those of Low- and Middle-Income Households

 

 

Figure 1
 
Income Gains Widely Shared in Early Postwar Decades - But Not Since Then

Of course - taxpayers get tax cuts, why does that surprise you. And, as always, it makes no sense for an employer to pay his workers less because he got a tax cut.


Wakie wakie rk - The employers did not pay them LESS, that is, they did not CUT worker pay, they RAISED THEIR PAY BY MUCH LESS drastically reducing labor's share of the profits. Had labor's share of profits that held from 1948 until 1980 continued, today's AVERAGE worker would be getting $86,000, not $58,000 and the CEOs would be getting $1.3Million not $15.8Million

 

The change in how profits are distributed HAPPENED. It happened because before Reagan the ones dividing the profit could not keep the increases they gave themselves because they were at or near the TMR of 91% or 70%. Reagan cut the TMR to 28% but INCREASED taxes on the average worker by 44% (9.3% to 13.4% on average AGI) by slashing deductions and increasing the bottom rates.


Even liberals know it's not fair to TAKE 91% of someone's income for taxation. That's what Reagan did is make it fairer. If the government wants to spend a lot of money and wants fair taxes, someone has to pay (even liberals).


Shown the relavent numbers, not even a marginally challenged 5th grader would claim anyone has ever paid 91% of their income in Federal Income taxes.

 

Even a Republican should know taxes are not TAKEN, simply because its not yours until AFTER the tax is paid, and no one can "take" from you what was never yours to begin with.

 

Here's how you can test YOUR theory of taxation. Go into a store, pick out an item and place the sticker price on the counter, then leave. See if the owner accepts this, or will demand you pony up the TAX, and then see if the cop he calls, should you continue to assert your fantasy about taxes, will agree with him and charge you with theft BECAUSE THE ITEM IS NOT YOURS BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T PAID FOR IT.

 

Same thing holds for your paycheck.


We always had a graduated scale for the % of taxes you pay, so you are not telling anyone something new. The highest dollars made were taxed (if over the 91% threshold) at 91% - a confiscatory rate to say the least. How about a fair tax that taxes your income at whatever rate you pick with no deductibles at all. Would you like that? Of course not since you have to pay tax.

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Re: Wealth Distribution

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Message 13 of 87

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@KidBoy2 wrote:
Cirice posted..


@KidBoy2said: "FYI... The poor pay ZERO Federal income tax!!!"



If they make less than the standard deduction. But they still pay payroll taxes.


Assume nothing. Question everything. And start thinking.

===============================================================

FYI... The poor pay ZERO Federal income tax!!!"

That is a fact ...how can you question that?

How? By using facts relating to the situation instead of blovating bumper stickers.

 

 

If you KNOWINGLY deprive another of access to, benefit from or even enjoyment of their property, it's considered THEFT.You cannot steal what does not exist, so the money removed from the paycheck in full knowledge IT WILL ALL BE RETURNED has deprived the worker of access, benefit and enjoyment of his property, and he has unwillingly CONTRIBUTED to the federal budget which is a definition of "paying taxes".

 

When the Federal Government takes a slice (seldom less than 10%) out of the paycheck of the poor worker every payday, that worker has loaned the Government that money at NO INTEREST and has to wait until they get their tax return to recover what was theirs. The Federal Government uses those dollars from the poor to avoid borrowing for which they WOULD pay interest. If that poor worker is an undocumented immigrant, they will NEVER get the moneY back because they CANNOT file a tax return on their bogus SSN.

 

Their Federal Income tax may only be the opportunity cost of his withholding, but I can guarantee they feel the loss much more accutely than the 1%ers notice the absence of their withholding.


Are you for real? Your heart goes out to all those illegal aliens paying the income tax that they cannot legally claim because they don't have a SS number? Give me a break. Do you have a warm spot in your heart for all those liberal thugs that are killing the citizens of Chicago?

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Re: Wealth Distribution

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Message 14 of 87

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

Here's a few charts that should illuminate the problem: First shows that ALL the gains in income from the Reaganscam went to increase the income of the top 10% (the managerial class who would be expected to decide how profits were divided and raises given). If they didn't change their method based on their newly awarded ability to keep most ofwhat they gave themselves, what prompted this total reversal of 40 years of "sharing the wealth" that had producedthe greatest expansion ofthe American economy and size and prosperity of the middle Class in history?

 

 

igure 2
 
Income Gains at the Top Dwarf Those of Low- and Middle-Income Households

 

 

Figure 1
 
Income Gains Widely Shared in Early Postwar Decades - But Not Since Then

Of course - taxpayers get tax cuts, why does that surprise you. And, as always, it makes no sense for an employer to pay his workers less because he got a tax cut.


Wakie wakie rk - The employers did not pay them LESS, that is, they did not CUT worker pay, they RAISED THEIR PAY BY MUCH LESS drastically reducing labor's share of the profits. Had labor's share of profits that held from 1948 until 1980 continued, today's AVERAGE worker would be getting $86,000, not $58,000 and the CEOs would be getting $1.3Million not $15.8Million

 

The change in how profits are distributed HAPPENED. It happened because before Reagan the ones dividing the profit could not keep the increases they gave themselves because they were at or near the TMR of 91% or 70%. Reagan cut the TMR to 28% but INCREASED taxes on the average worker by 44% (9.3% to 13.4% on average AGI) by slashing deductions and increasing the bottom rates.


Even liberals know it's not fair to TAKE 91% of someone's income for taxation. That's what Reagan did is make it fairer. If the government wants to spend a lot of money and wants fair taxes, someone has to pay (even liberals).


Shown the relavent numbers, not even a marginally challenged 5th grader would claim anyone has ever paid 91% of their income in Federal Income taxes.

 

Even a Republican should know taxes are not TAKEN, simply because its not yours until AFTER the tax is paid, and no one can "take" from you what was never yours to begin with.

 

Here's how you can test YOUR theory of taxation. Go into a store, pick out an item and place the sticker price on the counter, then leave. See if the owner accepts this, or will demand you pony up the TAX, and then see if the cop he calls, should you continue to assert your fantasy about taxes, will agree with him and charge you with theft BECAUSE THE ITEM IS NOT YOURS BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T PAID FOR IT.

 

Same thing holds for your paycheck.

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Re: Wealth Distribution

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Message 15 of 87

@KidBoy2 wrote:
Cirice posted..


@KidBoy2said: "FYI... The poor pay ZERO Federal income tax!!!"



If they make less than the standard deduction. But they still pay payroll taxes.


Assume nothing. Question everything. And start thinking.

===============================================================

FYI... The poor pay ZERO Federal income tax!!!"

That is a fact ...how can you question that?

How? By using facts relating to the situation instead of blovating bumper stickers.

 

 

If you KNOWINGLY deprive another of access to, benefit from or even enjoyment of their property, it's considered THEFT.You cannot steal what does not exist, so the money removed from the paycheck in full knowledge IT WILL ALL BE RETURNED has deprived the worker of access, benefit and enjoyment of his property, and he has unwillingly CONTRIBUTED to the federal budget which is a definition of "paying taxes".

 

When the Federal Government takes a slice (seldom less than 10%) out of the paycheck of the poor worker every payday, that worker has loaned the Government that money at NO INTEREST and has to wait until they get their tax return to recover what was theirs. The Federal Government uses those dollars from the poor to avoid borrowing for which they WOULD pay interest. If that poor worker is an undocumented immigrant, they will NEVER get the moneY back because they CANNOT file a tax return on their bogus SSN.

 

Their Federal Income tax may only be the opportunity cost of his withholding, but I can guarantee they feel the loss much more accutely than the 1%ers notice the absence of their withholding.

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Re: Wealth Distribution

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Message 16 of 87

@Olderscout66 wrote:

Republicans are trying to make "not being paid enough to pay Federal Income Tax" a reason to deny Americans any Government services like decent schools, healthcare and retirement.

Can you cite the Republicans making the quote you posted?

 

FACT: A majority of Americans paid NO Federal Income Tax for almost the entire history of Federal income tax, and it was designed that way from the beginning.

 

In 1916, the standard deductions were more than the average income. That remained the case until WWII when virtually everyone had a job either being or supporting one of the 16 million men and women in Uniform, but after the War, the standard deduction again EXCEEDED the average wage.

And then the left came up with all sorts of wealth redistribution programs that cost money.

 

Now the GOPerLords want all your money and then, because you have none, think you should also have no benefits from being an American.

What do you mean by GOPerLords - pols or successful people?

 

The proof this is what Republicans want is obvious - ITS WHAT THEIR POLICIES AND PROGRAMS HAVE DONE FOR THE PAST 40 YEARS.

40 YEARS - what happened in the Carter years that has your panties in a wad.

 

So if they didn't want it, why'd they do it?


 

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Re: Wealth Distribution

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Message 17 of 87

Republicans are trying to make "not being paid enough to pay Federal Income Tax" a reason to deny Americans any Government services like decent schools, healthcare and retirement.

 

FACT: A majority of Americans paid NO Federal Income Tax for almost the entire history of Federal income tax, and it was designed that way from the beginning.

 

In 1916, the standard deductions were more than the average income. That remained the case until WWII when virtually everyone had a job either being or supporting one of the 16 million men and women in Uniform, but after the War, the standard deduction again EXCEEDED the average wage.

 

Now the GOPerLords want all your money and then, because you have none, think you should also have no benefits from being an American.

 

The proof this is what Republicans want is obvious - ITS WHAT THEIR POLICIES AND PROGRAMS HAVE DONE FOR THE PAST 40 YEARS.

 

So if they didn't want it, why'd they do it?

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Re: Wealth Distribution

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Message 18 of 87

I’m glad the very low-income don’t pay taxes. That’s how it should be. 

 

I haven’t finished the book yet, but Dream Hoarders addresses a lot of what’s going on here to cause and preserve income inequality. But basically the top income quintile in this nation is a very different beast than the rest of the country, and they’ve in essence created a glass floor that they don’t fall below and that acts as a glass ceiling for everyone else.  The tax structure does nothing but aid their monopoly on a good life. If we Americans believe in opportunity for all, though, based on meritocracy, we need to level the playing field. Zero taxes for low income is only a small part of it.  

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Message 19 of 87



I posted....FYI... The poor pay ZERO Federal income tax!!!"

That is a fact ...how can you question that?
Are you dense? I didn't question that.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Cirice posted..

Are you dense? I didn't question that.



If you make less than the standard deduction, then you don't have to pay federal income taxes. But if you're working, you still have payroll taxes.



Do you want to try living on less than $10,000 per year?


=============================================================================================================================================




I posted .. The poor pay ZERO Federal income tax!!!"


And you danced around that fact...why?


"Are you dense? " No..are you?
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Message 20 of 87

@KidBoy2 wrote:
Mick posted..

I'm glad people are willing to mention Reagan & Trump in the same sentence & with the same sycophantic admiration



Americans in the Middle Class have been paying for Reagans Lies their whole lives



Here is the Promise Reagan Made & Said Was Kept



This bill demonstrates for all time our nation’s ironclad commitment to social security. It assures the elderly that America will always keep the promises made in troubled times a half a century ago. It assures those who are still working that they, too, have a pact with the future. From this day forward, they have our pledge that they will get their fair share of benefits when they retire…



Today, all of us can look each other square in the eye and say, “We kept our promises.” We promised that we would protect the financial integrity of social security. We have. We promised that we would protect beneficiaries against any loss in current benefits. We have. And we promised to attend to the needs of those still working, not only those Americans nearing retirement but young people just entering the labor force. And we’ve done that, too…



So yeah @KidBoy2 - The Reagan Tax Cuts worked for the top 20% & they were going to pay the rest of us back after they did



THEY NEVER PAID US BACK



Trumps Tax Cuts too are working & again for the top 20% and this time they didn't even need them - but now like then - it's the Middle Class & Social Security recipients present & future who will pay the bill



So please excuse me while I Vomit

=======================================================

Another rant that does not make sense.

If Reagan would have not lowered taxes FOR ALL were do you think our economy would have gone? I think it would have gone into a recession or a depression. That is a unknown ... I know that.

The problem with the left is they think businesses are bad...they do not understand that businesses are what drive or economy. I am pro-business are you?

It doesn't make sense to you because you refuse to think. 

 

I am pro consumer. I don't think business is bad, but I don't think corporations should profit at the expense of people.

 

 

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