Reply
Honored Social Butterfly

We must count the deaths from shutdowns as well as from coronavirus

https://nypost.com/2020/04/14/we-must-count-the-deaths-from-shutdowns-as-well-as-from-coronavirus/

 

We must count the deaths from shutdowns as well as from coronavirus

he academics and public-health officials who have concocted models of the virus’s spread are telling us that we have to continue the shutdown to save thousands of lives. It’s too bad none of their models considers the deaths that will be caused by unemployment.

Before the virus hit, America’s unemployment rate was 3.5 percent, the lowest in 50 years. Now Goldman Sachs predicts unemployment could spike to 15 percent by midyear. A St. Louis Federal Reserve economist grimly predicts 32 percent unemployment — worse than during the Great Depression.

Job losses cause extreme suffering. Every 1 percent hike in the unemployment rate will likely produce a 3.3 percent increase in drug-overdose deaths and a 0.99 percent increase in suicides, according to data from the National Bureau of Economic Research and the medical journal Lancet.

These are facts based on past experience, not models. If unemployment hits 32 percent, some 77,000 Americans are likely to die from suicide and drug overdoses as a result of layoffs. Deaths of despair.

Then add the predictable deaths 

 from alcohol abuse caused by ­unemployment. Health economist Michael French from the University of Miami found a “significant association between job loss” and binge drinking and alcoholism.

The impact of layoffs goes ­beyond suicide, drug overdosing and drinking, however. Overall, the death rate for an unemployed person is 63 percent higher than for someone with a job, according to findings in the journal Social Science & Medicine.

Now do the math: Layoff-related deaths could far outnumber the 60,400 

coronavirus deaths predicted by University of Washington researchers. This comparison isn’t meant to understate the horror of the coronavirus for those who get it and their families.

But heavy-handed state edicts to close all “nonessential businesses” need to be reassessed in light of the predictable harm to the lives, livelihoods and health of the uninfected.

 

======================================

 

A good article...yes its opinion but something our Governors should consider. 

0 Kudos
271 Views
24
Report
Honored Social Butterfly

We must count the deaths from shutdowns as well as from coronavirus

 

Today reports are if we had shut down two weeks eariler we could have avoided 90% of the deaths and probably this severe economic disruption.

 

Just two weeks, now we're looking at 60,000 dead and maybe a depression.

 

Trump really dropped the ball on this, it will cost a lot of lives and a lot of jobs.

 

Lets not pile bad decisions, one on top of another.

 

Things are headed the right way, we can undo Trump's mistakes, but we have to get the virus under control, and we need the ability to test and contact trace on a massive scale.

 

We're not there yet.

0 Kudos
168 Views
0
Report
Honored Social Butterfly


@KidBoy2 wrote:

 

 

A good article...yes its opinion but something our Governors should consider. 


Trumpies always take right wing opinions over facts, that's what also keeps Fox in business. ROFLMAO !!!


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
0 Kudos
256 Views
0
Report
Honored Social Butterfly

I had almost forgotten Betsy McCaughey. The last time I recall her, she was busy spreading misinformation about the ACA before it finally passed. I see she's still in that business.

Honored Social Butterfly


@Panjandrum wrote:

I had almost forgotten Betsy McCaughey. The last time I recall her, she was busy spreading misinformation about the ACA before it finally passed. I see she's still in that business.


She's still in that business and far right wingers still listen to her. No surprise !  LOL


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly

We must count the deaths from shutdowns as well as from coronavirus

==============================================

That should be weigh in when Governors decide when to open our country up. Whatever they do they are going to take heat.

I hope that the states that are still having the high rates of infected will wait. States with low infections could open up business and for sure K-12 schools....with the rates on infection almost zero, these schools should open, even if the teachers, janitors , bus driver need to be tested.

Betsy McCaughey used historical data to come up with her estimates.

0 Kudos
167 Views
4
Report
Honored Social Butterfly


@KidBoy2 wrote:
We must count the deaths from shutdowns as well as from coronavirus

==============================================

That should be weigh in when Governors decide when to open our country up. Whatever they do they are going to take heat.

I hope that the states that are still having the high rates of infected will wait.

REALLY? .... You heavily criticized and insulted Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer for doing just that!!!

 

 

DUMP TRUMP AND DITCH MITCH TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!
Honored Social Butterfly

We must count the deaths from shutdowns as well as from coronavirus

==============================================

Like I posted...Betsy McCaughey used historical data to come up with her estimates.

Like the number of people that died when they were unemployed vs people that were employed....same with the effects of alcohol on the unemployed....etc.

That should be weigh in when Governors decide when to open our country up. Whatever they do they are going to take heat.

I hope that the states that are still having the high rates of infected will wait.
0 Kudos
159 Views
0
Report
Honored Social Butterfly


@KidBoy2 wrote:
We must count the deaths from shutdowns as well as from coronavirus

==============================================

That should be weigh in when Governors decide when to open our country up. Whatever they do they are going to take heat.

I hope that the states that are still having the high rates of infected will wait. States with low infections could open up business and for sure K-12 schools....with the rates on infection almost zero, these schools should open, even if the teachers, janitors , bus driver need to be tested.

Betsy McCaughey used historical data to come up with her estimates.


You better go back and read your support article. She clearly states will likely so she has nothing in fact to back up what she says presents. On testing there is no national program as Trump wants to punt to the States since he is incapable of doing it. If you look how this area worked before the Feds did it. When we had the small pox drive in 1936 it  was the US Public Health Service who gave the shots. C Span had a govt produced film on it Sat. night.  The States are linked together on this. Notice there are no low States near NYC as it spread from NYC. In NJ is spread from north to south, and in to Pa. I live in a very rural area. Close to the Navajo Nation where people live very rural. Lots of them do not have electricity, and lots of dirt roads. You would think there would be few cases. Well they are a hot spot, and it is still spreading. It stared in rural AZ when 2 returned from a visit to another State. It spread all over the area in AZ, then to our area. We were low in NM now we along with every country bordering AZ is high due to 2 people who visited another state. They have the N Nation under curfew 8PM, to 6AM. Last weekend they had it under curfew from 8PM Friday till 6AM Monday. No one could leave their property. The police blocked secondary roads, and there was a fine of up to $1,000 if you violated it. There are 3 states effected by this hot sport. NM, CO, AZ,UT. You can not open up a state with out close to total testing. The virus will just move place to place if you do not stop it in all States, or have close to total testing in all states.

Honored Social Butterfly

She clearly states will likely so she has nothing in fact to back up what she says presents

============================================

That is not true.

Like I posted...Betsy McCaughey used historical data to come up with her estimates.

Like the number of people that died when they were unemployed vs people that were employed....same with the effects of alcohol on the unemployed....etc.

0 Kudos
310 Views
0
Report
Honored Social Butterfly

The comparisons are faulty but in a different way than suggested in the thread.  Trump's model shows between 100K and 200K deaths and the regressives are saying "That ain't so bad..look at the Spanish Flu".  Of course, the 100-200K assumes massive shutdowns and social distancing which was not in place during the Spanish Flu epidemic. Looking at how contagious Covid-19 has been, I would suggest that if the shutdowns had not been ordered, the death toll would have been projected at several times the current amount.

Honored Social Butterfly

   Apparently the author of this thread fails to read far and wide.   If they did that, then they would learn that is already being analyzed - Excess Mortality.     That is a global project and it indicates that the death toll from Covid19 is higher not lower that all the information being shared around the globe. 

 

     As I shared earlier, it takes very few people who are asymptomatic to create another round of Covid19 death cycles.   https://graphics.reuters.com/HEALTH-CORONAVIRUS/SPREAD/xegpbwexvqz/index.html

 

     RE:  Betsy:   https://www.politifact.com/personalities/betsy-mccaughey/

PRO-LIFE is Affordable Healthcare for ALL .
Honored Social Butterfly

Exactly why we should have true universal health care and a universal basic income.    We would have weathered this pandemic much better if we had been a modern country.

 

 

Honored Social Butterfly

ManicProgressive posted.

Exactly why we should have true universal health care and a universal basic income. We would have weathered this pandemic much better if we had been a modern country.

==============================================================

If we had true universal health care we would not have the virus?
0 Kudos
166 Views
3
Report
Honored Social Butterfly


@KidBoy2 wrote:
ManicProgressive posted.

Exactly why we should have true universal health care and a universal basic income. We would have weathered this pandemic much better if we had been a modern country.

==============================================================

If we had true universal health care we would not have the virus?

Our people would have been healthier to begin with, less at risk to die from the virus, and we would have been far more prepared for it.  Please try and keep up.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
0 Kudos
256 Views
0
Report
Honored Social Butterfly


@KidBoy2 wrote:
ManicProgressive posted.

Exactly why we should have true universal health care and a universal basic income. We would have weathered this pandemic much better if we had been a modern country.

==============================================================

If we had true universal health care we would not have the virus?

We would have had a coordinated health care system to allocate scarce resources and do planning across the entire country.  Now we have Trump............another word for chaos or moron.  ITYS

0 Kudos
271 Views
0
Report
Honored Social Butterfly


@KidBoy2 wrote:
ManicProgressive posted.

Exactly why we should have true universal health care and a universal basic income. We would have weathered this pandemic much better if we had been a modern country.

==============================================================

If we had true universal health care we would not have the virus?

A straw man argument contained within a question as that ludicrous argument was NEVER made nor even suggested!

 

What was clearly stated was "with universal health care and a universal basic income" ......  "We would have weathered this pandemic much better".

 

 

 

 

DUMP TRUMP AND DITCH MITCH TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!
0 Kudos
298 Views
0
Report
Honored Social Butterfly

It's an extremely rare day when I agree with Kidboy on anything. However, I think he's right about this article. I get it, people need to stay home during this pandemic, but we can't simply focus solely on that.

 

We should never underestimate the financial, psychological, and emotional damage that will happen to millions of Americans who lose their jobs, identity, and/or homes.

Honored Social Butterfly

A good article...its one thing our governors should consider.

People can make fun of her but when they do it telling of their ability to face facts.
0 Kudos
183 Views
1
Report
Honored Social Butterfly


@KidBoy2 wrote:
A good article...its one thing our governors should consider.

People can make fun of her but when they do it telling of their ability to face facts.

What facts, you already said her article was opinion  What our governors have considered is how many will die if we don't stop this virus and that is based on Facts !

 

I'll take facts over a far right wing opinion.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
0 Kudos
258 Views
0
Report
Silver Conversationalist

Deaths from anxiety over the economy would be a tiny fraction of deaths from anxiety over getting Covid19 and passing it on to your parents and grandparents.

Same with drug overdoses. Also, the current death toll from tRumpvid20 is seriously UNDERstated because a lot of people dying from the virus at home are not getting counted because Toad has failed miserably in providing test kits, and NO it is NOT the job of the Governors to battle a NATIONAL disaster, its the job of the President, and tragically, WE DON'T HAVE ONE.

 

Everyone understands that the job losses are NOT a result of your personal failure, and it's that "personalization" of the trauamatic events that causes suicide and drug use to increase. But if GOPers have their way, drug use will continue because people and their dealwers will be able to meet in the 11 Red States who reject "Government Overreach" and have not gotten serious about social distancing.

 

The extreme anxiety Republicans are beginning to feel comes from the inescapable FACT that most of the deaths are a result of THEIR personal action in voting for a Psychopathic Moron as ToadPOTUS. tRump is responsible for the disaster we're in and will stay in so long as he's in the White House.

Honored Social Butterfly

We must count the deaths from shutdowns as well as from coronavirus

 

OK, but we should also count the people NOT getting killed by shutdowns.

 

How many people aren't dieing in car accidents, how many people aren't dieing in job accidents, how many people aren't going to bars, or fast food restaurants.

 

How about crime, is crime way down, seems like it would be, even if you don't care about the virus who are you going to rob if the stores are all closed and everyone is at home?

 

More then 2,400 people died of this virus in the USA YESTERDAY, and that's with the lock downs.

 

How are we going to get people to come out of their homes when we lift lock downs.

 

Will the person who wrote  this article still be working at home, telling all the peons they're better off out working with the virus?

 

We're staying home to stop hospitals from being overwhelmed, and it looks that is working, but the virus is still there.

 

So lets at least get the test and PPE issues resolved before we go back to work.

 

We need to be able to test and contact trace people before we end lock downs, that means hundreds of millions of tests.

 

We need to resolve the issues with PPE.

 

We need to give health care workers a rest.

 

 

Honored Social Butterfly

No it is a terrible article, and is written by a far right author, and it is her opinion not fact. She was a Lt. Gov. of NY. If you read other opinion articles she has written that are all on the Trump line, and make little fact sense. She goes after NYState for not buying ventilators, but blames it on the NYCity Deputy Commissioner of disease control. She does say the Feds did not do anything with their stockpile. By the way the Fed law tells us the Feds keep these stockpiles so it was their job. She tells Bernie the problem in Italy, and Great Britain in handling the virus is there medicare for all system as people get treated for the virus free. Looks like she forgot that Trump has made treatment free in the US as our health care system could not work with the virus. She  wants to open business and end everything we are doing to cut the spread. That means she is willing to have a lot more deaths so a few can make money. It is the workers who will die. That is what Trump will do also. All should read all of her articles and you will see what I have said about the far right for years now. They love to hurt and even kill people.

Honored Social Butterfly

Hmmmm I like the idea of shared sacrifice for the economy......with the rich and the corporations be expected to return their tax break money in order to fund those who are now out of work through no fault of their own?

Silver Conversationalist

 


@Richva wrote:

Hmmmm I like the idea of shared sacrifice for the economy......with the rich and the corporations be expected to return their tax break money in order to fund those who are now out of work through no fault of their own?


I'd go one step further and deny ANY payments to any Company (actually it goes to the Oligarchs running the company) that has bought back their stock since 2008 UNTIL all that stock had been sold to cover the losses from Covid19.

 

THEN We the People can consider chipping in to keep the Oligarchs and their companies afloat AND THEIR WORKERS FULLY EMPLOYED.

cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Users
Announcements

Does AARP donate to political parties or endorse candidates?

AARP is strictly non-partisan and always has been. We never endorse or donate to candidates, political parties or political action committees.

Learn more.

AARP Members Only Games

Play members only games, like FIll Ins, Lumeno, 2048 and a collaborative, multiplayer Let's Crossword.

Play Now
AARP Members Only Games Logos
AARP Rewards

Solve Crosswords. Earn Rewards. Activate AARP Rewards to earn points for games, quizzes and videos. Redeem for deals and discounts.

Get started with AARP Rewards now!
/html/assets/Rewards-program-badge-355x224.png